Dominating The Trenches
July 7th, 2022
Bucs’ lines five-star worthy?
There is an old football saying that if you control the line of scrimmage, you will control the game. If you believe that — Joe tends to — then the Bucs should dominate this fall.
That’s the word from the folks at WalterFootball.com. In breaking down the Bucs by position groups, Tampa Bay was awarded five stars for both the offensive line and the defensive line.
Now either folks are using their crystal ball to conclude this or they are awfully comfortable and confident in who the Bucs have selected to fill holes.
Yes, the Bucs have a good offensive line but Joe is going to wait to see how Aaron Stinnie (or Luke Goedeke) work out in September before Joe starts throwing rose petals. On paper, the Bucs should have a good offensive line. Of course, games are not played on paper.
The defensive line? Man, a lot of newbies there. No more Jason Pierre-Paul, no more Ndamukong Suh.
Though Joe has a lot of hope Joe Tryon-Shoyinka will be a stud, until he demonstrates it, he’s more hype than substance. Logan Hall? Joe hasn’t seen him take a snap in a game.
The Bucs really do have the potential to be a five-star team in the trenches. Will they be? Well, call Joe in October.
July 7th, 2022 at 9:11 am
Pleasant optimism. I think (and hope) they are right. I think Licht has done a fine off-season job and the trenches look very strong on both sides.
July 7th, 2022 at 9:11 am
We brought everyone back last year, and came up short. Not replacing JPP, and Suh, hoping they can still play in 22 like they did in 20 is not realistic for players their age. You either get better, or worse, we weren’t going to get any better keeping Suh, and JPP. The debate should be not if we needed to change the line up, but will the new line up be better? I think it will.
July 7th, 2022 at 9:15 am
I think we are all worried about the DL. In addition to will JTS take the next step, and we have no clue about Logan Hall (since Hall is a rookie, Harry is not expecting a whole lot), we also have concerns about injury prone Vita Via and Akeem Hicks. How many games will they miss??
Harry is wringing his hands over the DL
July 7th, 2022 at 9:19 am
Hooded reminded me, in mentioning Suh and JPP, who were VERY vocal in their leadership, what DL player is going to take over that role? Some may not think much of “leadership”, but Harry does. Getting on guys azzes when they need it, teaching little nuances of the trade, firing teammates up for big plays. Those things are important.
July 7th, 2022 at 9:24 am
Relax….
Nelson played great and will continue to improve
Gholston will be stout….
Nachos still in the building….
JST will take the next step….
We good
GO BUCS
July 7th, 2022 at 9:32 am
JTS and Hall need to have quality performances or the Bucs’ scouting needs to be re-evaluated. As for OLine – there’s a big dropoff from Wirfs to Wells – just stay healthy.
July 7th, 2022 at 9:34 am
I like our mixture of older and younger players in the trenches. Overall, I think we will have one of the better lines (both sides) in the NFL. Both our Offense and Defense will or should rank in the top 5. Optimistically positive this season.
July 7th, 2022 at 9:43 am
I’ll be rooting for Nacho to finally get home on a sack or two this season partially because I want to see the defense and guys on the sideline explode while he’s still celebrating lol! Hands down one of my favorite personalities on the entire team the past few years
July 7th, 2022 at 9:50 am
Senor Harry … I’ll join you in ‘wringing my hands over the DLine’. IF everyone stays healthy AND IF the youngsters perform up to expectations, we’ll kick ass. Problem is that over a 17-game regular season & potentially 4 playoff games, those are 2 very big IFs.
When Vea went down early in 2020, our DLine remained solid, with Suh & JPP leading the way. Gholston, RNR & McLendon stepped up and we were good enough to make the playoffs as a wildcard AND win the first 2 games without Vea. So IF Vea goes down again in 2022, will Hicks be the one to step up & provide the leadership that Suh & JPP provided? Or IF Hicks goes down, will Vea be the one to step up & be the leader?
I’m hearing lots of enthusiasm for JTS & Nelson taking significant forward strides this season, and I’m cautiously optimistic there too. BUT … that’s based on HOPE; no sure things. Same with Logan Hall. It’s unrealistic to expect him to be the second-coming of Aaron Donald. Lots of ‘pieces’ need to fall into place for us to win the NFC Championship & make it to the Super Bowl. Sure would feel better if old man Suh was back in the fold.
July 7th, 2022 at 9:53 am
SUH.
July 7th, 2022 at 10:04 am
There’s the potential for 5 stars all over this team, except maybe at TE obviously. Potential there still lies in September for now.
But the lines will need to be 5-star to make another run, and if they live up to it that sure would help our stud LBs and secondary. Keeping Brady upright and giving Lenny more than 2yds to gain sure would keep the dream alive too!
July 7th, 2022 at 10:47 am
The Bucs will be better on the D-Line this season than last year. That is good enough to make them dangerous. Hopefully, they stay healthy and realize their potential, then we are definitely looking at a 5 star line.
July 7th, 2022 at 11:00 am
I am less worried about the 2022 season since the Buc trenches are strong. Yeah, a couple of question marks, but compared to the rest of the league, they are top-tier. Especially on the OL.
Undeniable Football Factoid: The Big Uglies win or lose the game. Over an entire season, success starts and ends there. The rest is ticket-selling flash.
Look no further than Buc domination of KC when KC was down in the trenches, and Ram domination of Bucs for the same reason.
You can somewhat scheme around a weak DL. There is little scheming with a weak OL, in fact, a weak OL reduces scheming options.
“Simple as that.”
July 7th, 2022 at 11:55 am
I as much as anybody here have focused on “health” or as Tony Dungy used to say the most important ability…”availability”.
All NFL teams are in shape, have specialists checking their players for flexibility, strength etc. So injuries generally fall under the category of LUCK!
I remember Carson Palmer’s gruesome knee injury with the Bengals. All it will take is a missed block or an OL knocked to the ground and inadvertantly rolling into Brady’s knee. That’s my worst nightmare! And even with a super talented OL it’s still a crapshoot…same for ALL of the Bucs’ players…LUCK
So there is no team in the league that feels truly safe…EVERY freaking team is looking for depth or backups. The Bucs are no different.
No team in this competitive league really feels safe right now. The Bucs have enough excellent players to win another SB. Will the Bucs be lucky enough to have them all playing when needed.
July 7th, 2022 at 12:17 pm
JTS gets owned by OT’s, he doesn’t have the inside moves and can’t use his hands. We still need Suh and JPP this year.
July 7th, 2022 at 1:14 pm
@dooley
You are so cool bro.
Nacho is the man. I like how you support him like that.
July 7th, 2022 at 2:37 pm
Hall the 2nd coming of Aaron Donald. No way.
Hall the 2nd coming of Calais Campbell. All the way.
July 7th, 2022 at 3:01 pm
@geno, yup! Devante wyatt is more like Donald, and I wanted him or Hall. We traded down and missed out on him but still landed Hall. All good.
July 7th, 2022 at 3:33 pm
With Tryon, the Bucs should just keep an open mind there. If he struggles in the offseason, they should have JPP on speed dial. YES, I agree, JPP isn’t who he was, but we don’t need that JPP, you just need a part time guy who can play if Tryon isn’t effective, and I think even the worst version of JPP can do that.
Yes, you have cap issues, but figure it out.
At the same time, if Tryon looks great in the offseason, I’d still try to bring JPP back, just selling him on the fact he only needs to be a part time player, and you want his veteran leadership, etc etc etc.
July 7th, 2022 at 3:52 pm
These publications are lazy- it’s like when NFL.com said Derick Brooks was one of the best Middle linebackers ever, right after his induction. Back then they allowed public comments. I chimed in that it was a disgrace to football and to his legacy and that maybe they should consider having the interns actually watch football.
Sometimes I wonder….
No rose pedals indeed
Sign Suh and JPP
July 7th, 2022 at 4:01 pm
Bucs had no choice but to get younger up front defensively this year.
JPP is 33 and was basically a liability on the field in 2021 because of his many injuries – and Suh is THIRTY FIVE years old! That is very old for an interior Defensive Lineman. Yes Kong’s availability has remained intact thus far – but his play did for sure slip in 2021 and its not going anywhere but down (along with his snaps) in 2022….
Time for young players up front to bring those fresh legs into play stuffing RBs and getting after Quarterbacks.
We replaced a broken down JPP and a very old Suh with two first round talents and added a very good, yet also aging and injury prone big man in Hicks up front.
Jason Licht has been on quite a roll the last few years – so its likely these DLine moves he made will be praiseworthy by the end of the year.
Suh wants to be paid more than he’s worth this year and thats why he’s not re-signed with the Bucs thus far. If he would have agreed to $3M + incentives for 2022 he would already be re-signed for 1 last year.
Licht will be happy to bolster our inside depth and bring Donkey Kong back for 1 last hurrah in 2022 – but it will NOT be for $7-8Million dollars….
July 7th, 2022 at 4:37 pm
It is July and Suh has been signed Nowhere. He can continue to price himself out of football for all I care. If he truly wants to play at his age drop the price and come back. If not. So long.
July 7th, 2022 at 5:25 pm
That first SB with Brady came with D veterans like Suh and JPP just before a steeper decline. Last season, the difference was clear, they hit that decline and got injured as well.
They have not replaced PRIME Suh/JPP with comparable veteran power. Hicks is good, but is a different player than both, and he has injury issues. Hall is a total rook, zero NFL snaps, on top of lesser competition in college. JTS was raw coming out of college, still is, and still lacking in power and moves.
I don’t like “hoping” for magic D line superpower from these young guys. Not when Brady’s SB window is 1 yr. Same with hoping that Otton, Brate and Kieft replace Gronk. It might be all we’ve got, but look at the Rams and the rest of the ready teams. Not good.
July 7th, 2022 at 5:33 pm
I think a lot of you guys are missing the point when it comes to Vea and Hicks. The question ISN’T whether they will kick butt and yes maybe even better than before. That IS NOT the concern for those who keep missing the point.
The POINT is and or the Biggest question is whether or not either one of them can complete a season. I haven’t heard that either one of them has EVER finished a season without missing. And that’s because I don’t believe either one of them has EVER finished a whole season in tact. EVER……
The odds are NOT in our favor.. The FACTS are that one if not Both WILL miss substantial time and games. And THAT IS WHY there is Heavy Concern. HEAVY…
Sure Nacho is a great guy and so is Golston, and pretty darn good players but they are NOT elite. Hall is Completely unproven. That means NO real experience AT ALL… JTS, second year guy with very little experience and SLIM serious depth behind him, Nelson, and Shaq B!
We are NOT a complete team. Not by a very long shot. And for those who think “All is good as is”, Man come on. Just please get real. It’s gonna take a hell of a lot of luck for it to work as is and in fact I’m going to say it’ll take a miracle.
I got a sneaky feeling more additions are DEFINITELY coming! But none will be able to fill Suh’s, especially Suh’s shoes. Maybe okish on the outside but the inside, no way as is. You have to Seriously consider the leadership that is simply not there anymore as well. SUH and JPP for that matter are the real deal in “IRONMAN”. Vea and Hicks unfortunately are not even sort of close to that title
GO BUCS!
July 7th, 2022 at 5:57 pm
For the guys who Clearly see the danger, well said. We need some serious experience on the D line. Yes. Absolutely. We had to get younger. But.. But.. betting our season, probably Brady’s last with us and maybe not for many more years to come for another shot at the title with “LITERALLY” raw and completely inexperienced guys is SUICIDE! Self defecation!
Come on, you guys are joking. Right? Of Course you are. And being that most of us are at least fairly cleaver and intelligent, you realize the danger. Right? Can you even sort of imagine just how scereeeewed we would be walking into that “prison shower” with our pants down? If we lose both Vea and Hicks and quite
possibly during the same time.. And according to their clear and proven injury history and the almost absolutely guaranteed that they will More Than Likely miss multiple games each…. Well….. You Do see the danger. Right!!?
OOOOOF!
GO BUCS!
July 7th, 2022 at 5:58 pm
Pickgrin … Agree with you that the ‘Bucs had no choice but to get younger up front defensively this year’. Thus far THIS YEAR we’ve lost 3 old-timers … Suh, JPP AND McLendon … in terms of guys who have played on our DLine, and replaced all 3 with … an oft-injured, soon-to-be 33 years old Akiem Hicks and a 2nd-Rnd rookie Logan Hall.
Not only did we lose a tremendous amount of LEADERSHIP, but the math in terms of replacing 1,571 def snaps from those 3 players doesn’t work out unless BOTH Hicks & Hall get about 800 def snaps each. That MIGHT happen, but I wouldn’t bet the farm on it. And not only get those snaps, but produce AT LEAST as effectively as Suh, JPP & McLendon did. Preferably better production obviously.
Several have called Suh a ‘mercenary’ because he wants to be paid for his talent. Others have said he’s obviously asking too much because no one has signed him for 2022. I don’t think either are true. Suh’s his own agent from what I’ve read, and that probably gives him a lot more flexibility come negotiation-time than most others. At age 35 he probably has no desire whatsoever to go through training camp. Plus we have ZERO idea what he’s willing to play for. I do believe though that he considers himself a Buccaneer now & wants to retire as a Buc. Won’t surprise me a bit to see him back on the 53-man roster come September.
July 7th, 2022 at 6:52 pm
DR –
JTS is JPP’s replacement – we added him in the 1st round last year and frankly he should have gotten an additional 3-400 snaps that JPP had no business playing – that was my perspective anyway. As much as I love JPP – that the Bucs acquired him and consider the man to be one of the ultimate NFL WARRIORS – Pierre-Paul was a liability to our defense playing seriously hurt all year like he tried to do.
We “lost” JPP, McClendon and Suh (for now) – and replaced them with JTS, Hall and Hicks.
“Won’t surprise me a bit to see him back on the 53-man roster come September.” (Suh)
Me neither – but like I said – it won’t be for $8M. Licht is gonna win that game of “chicken” if its to be won… largely because the $ is simply not available. We have to make sure there’s enough for Gronk who I’m quite sure WILL be playing this year and whose skills are a good bit more coveted and needed than Suh’s for this team to win another Championship in 2022.
Hell – JPP might even be on the roster this year if he doesn’t sign elsewhere and is willing to play 1 last year as a Buccaneer for low $s.
July 9th, 2022 at 7:21 am
JTS was far more productive than JPP, who remains unsigned. And you can’t find an intelligent person on the planet that doesn’t think the combo of Hicks and Hall won’t be much better than 35 year old Suh. We’ve upgraded our defensive front.