Tackling May Have Just Improved
March 19th, 2022
Bucs safety Logan Ryan.
It just drives Joe wild how professional football players don’t, can’t or won’t tackle.
Joe hears guys like former linebackers coach and Jets personnel executive Pat Kirwan of SiriusXM NFL Radio — for whom Joe has the utmost respect — claim the lack of hitting in practices, mandated by the NFL, is why tackling is awful.
Joe is dubious because fundamentals are just trash. You don’t see enough guys square up. You don’t see guys wrap up. This can and should be practiced daily on tackling sleds.
Lousy tackling likely led to the Bucs getting bounced from the playoffs last season. It was shameful how many mis-tackles and half-arsed waving of the arms there were in the loss to the Rams.
Well, Joe has a hunch that new Bucs defensive back Logan Ryan will help solve that problem. First, he’s a Schiano Man. Say what you will about former Bucs commander Greg Schiano, but he was excellent at fundamentals.
Then Ryan played for Bill Belicheat. You know he is good at fundamentals.
And then Joe was reading a piece from Jordan Raanan of BSPN and came across this factoid:
Last year Ryan had a career-high 117 combined tackles (in 15 games). That was 23rd-most in the NFL. Devin White led the Bucs with 128 combined tackles.
Joe is going to guess if you have over 100 tackles in a season you just aren’t trying to blow guys up or only trying to force a turnover (hi Lovie) and that you are actually wrapping up and putting guys on the ground.
Just for that reason alone, this Ryan is a welcome addition.
March 19th, 2022 at 6:27 am
Thank the good Lord. Other than Winfield, the Bucs DB’s can’t tackle for shat. Ryan was taught old school by Belichick and Vrabel.
March 19th, 2022 at 6:28 am
And almost 80 tackles were han solo. Impressive. He likes the forced fumbles. Again , whitehead was one of my favorite bucs. And is younger then Ryan. But there will not be any drop off in play from safety group.
117 tackles is a lot for a safety. Now giants were bad team and our run defense is good so a little different. But remember, whitehead played a lot in the box. But his tackling totals were more in the mid 70’s
March 19th, 2022 at 6:36 am
NFL players look for the big hit instead of just going low, and wrapping up. Like Devin White does to often they are out of body control when going after the ball carrier. You don’t have to hit a guy at 100 mph. Just square up, and wrap up.
March 19th, 2022 at 6:57 am
I agree with the overall sentiment of this post, but would contend that Jordan Whitehead was not the problem in the tackling fundamentals department.
Thankfully, the arrival of Ryan ensures that there will not be a drop-off in tackling created by Whitehead’s departure.
March 19th, 2022 at 7:01 am
We can match the tackling of Whitehead….but can we match the thumpiing?
March 19th, 2022 at 7:03 am
Thumping…
March 19th, 2022 at 7:15 am
Ryan played at Rutgers, and you can not play at Rutgers unless you had good fundamentals.
March 19th, 2022 at 7:26 am
Can someone just teach SMB the basics so on the 3 & 5,6,7 yds he doesn’t get carried for 8yds?
March 19th, 2022 at 7:28 am
When a safety has over 100 tackles in any year you have a real problem with the front 7. I hope we don’t need him to make that many tackles!
March 19th, 2022 at 7:52 am
Solid move by brady
March 19th, 2022 at 8:01 am
I love getting a good player with great fundamentals. As far a impact on the others, maybe, but if you have more than one DB with weak fundamentals, that is on the coaches. Thats the coaches fricken job!
March 19th, 2022 at 8:09 am
I still believe SMB n JDean are both passive tacklers. JDean does not know how to use his speed n size when it comes to tackling. Ever since 2021 playoffs when SMB balled out, he regressed the next season. His tackling skills are 0 to none. He need to go back to the basics of tackling. He was awful in playoff game against the Rams, i.e., arm tackling, grabbing for air, receiver dragged him for additional yards, n the list goes on. He need to quit talking n start performing. Other than AWinfield n CDavis, our secondary is very passive n weak when it comes to tackling.
March 19th, 2022 at 8:25 am
Good to hear. That is my biggest pet peeve for Defense, why is it so difficult to wrap up?!?!? Sometime you’re out of position to do so but more than half the time when someone is in position to wrap the ball carrier up they don’t. I don’t understand why coaches tolerate it
March 19th, 2022 at 8:40 am
Noticeable difference in tackling and hitting once the playoffs begin..
Not hard to understand when you play a 17 $$$ game of violent contact with zebras calling arbitrary violations of the rules that prohibit certain degrees of violent contact. Mix in risking career ending injury as a result of the violent contact and it is understandable
March 19th, 2022 at 8:45 am
What aggravates me most is when tacklers wait for the ball carrier to come to them rather than attacking the carrier. I don’t know how many times last year in critical situations, the Bucs defense gave away 1st downs by not moving upfield to make the tackle. Of course, once contact is made, you have to wrap up. Trying to knock players off their feet with body tackling is not as effective as getting your arms around their legs/feet.
March 19th, 2022 at 8:50 am
So many experts in the comments amazed aint on a nfl staff
March 19th, 2022 at 8:57 am
SB-LV, then don’t take the millions to play the game. That’s a cop-out. This isn’t basketball ball when you play 82 games and cruise except in selected games until the playoffs. Actually being cautious could get a player hurt even more. There is no guarantee your team makes the playoffs.
March 19th, 2022 at 9:04 am
Basics, the offense needs 4 yards, receiver catches a sideline pass with the db on him and he’s 3 yds short, either push him OB or go low, take him out at the legs. Way too many times Bucs Db’s all but Winfield ride the receiver past the first down marker. Frustrating as hell to watch. White although not a DB is notorious for tackling high, his strength usually let’s him get away with it until a guy like Josh Allen takes him for a ride. Coaching fundamentals. I don’t get it.
March 19th, 2022 at 9:37 am
Like I mentioned on a previous post, per PFF, Ryan last year had 85 solo tackles. That is impressive and means he’s a very good tackler. Additionally, I think Ryan is a solid addition because he will improve communication in the secondary. We need a vet presence back there, and now we have one.
March 19th, 2022 at 9:37 am
Shaq for Cappa. Ryan for Whitehead. Brady for fill in the blank.
There will be no furious comeback next year. It will be blowout after blowout.
March 19th, 2022 at 9:44 am
I still can’t believe Lovie got another HC job. He must have pictures or something.
March 19th, 2022 at 9:46 am
ModHairKen: That’s not the way the NFL is set up, they want the average game to be close so people continue to watch the ridiculous amount of commercials during a game. I think the Bucs won 6 games by 20 or more points last year, and the schedule is tougher this year.
March 19th, 2022 at 9:52 am
ModHairKen,
Blowout after blowout?
Nah. Our Defense will continue to rarely stop people and give up big points. It will be another teeter-totter season, most likely again ending in a playoff loss to a balanced team that we can’t get stops against to win the game — I.e. the Rams, Packers, Cowboys, etc.
If our secondary doesn’t change with our corners, we’re DOOMED again, ultimately, and will come up short.
March 19th, 2022 at 10:00 am
The biggest difference between the Bucs and Saints ( Other than coaching) has been tackling. Saints put on a tackling clinic every time we face them. I would love to know the difference in YAC in those games. DR? These two disparities are the reason why the Saints own us even when we are the more talented team. Severe lack of coaching. IMO!
March 19th, 2022 at 10:44 am
I am just curious why they haven’t done much with this d-line. Are they bringing back the same cast? They need some youth upfront.
March 19th, 2022 at 10:45 am
I am hoping we do something about this d-line soon and i would not oppose if they took a corner in the first round. There’s some good ones out there in this draft.
March 19th, 2022 at 10:52 am
Francisco: Agreed on CB, 1st or 2nd round would be nice.
Is Logan Ryan going to play slot? Or Mike Edwards the slot? I’m not sold on SMB being the slot corner.
March 19th, 2022 at 11:02 am
If we could add a decent corner and a pass rusher in free agency I would feel much better. We really need to hit a home run with the draft as well
March 19th, 2022 at 11:09 am
Would love to sign Akiem Hicks. To replace Suh. Younger. Maybe healthier.
March 19th, 2022 at 11:30 am
SMB is a horrible cover guy and if he is playing regularly again this season, our defensive coverage will be weak with him the lineup. Tackling has been a problem on this team for at least the last 3 or 4 years which again comes down to COACHING!!!! They are not given enough teaching of the right technique or practice in the proper way to tackle someone so it continues every year.
March 19th, 2022 at 11:36 am
There is no room for a DB in the NFL anymore. Not allowed any tight coverage without a PI because the big TDs and completions is what brings in the NFL money. NCAA defense is very fun to watch. But whitehead was a thumper, he could wrap you up, and was fast to get to anyone near the LOS. AWJr is like this as well in his free safety. They can both square up to make hits without flags. A rarity in the game today. I was begging for a good vet CB this year to take over for Dean (awful). But the fact Ryan is very smart, experienced at CB and S is big for the young secondary, and who’s to say we may not draft a CB early to give some competition.
March 19th, 2022 at 11:44 am
Can only get better, couldn’t be much worse.
March 19th, 2022 at 12:24 pm
He’s your fantasy bye week fill in guy on Defense S/CB player. If your league does that kind of thing. At least that’s why you be been watching him over the years.
The Backend just got wiser and they needed it. Love this move.
March 19th, 2022 at 12:25 pm
@BradyBuc
You’re a person who only comes on here and speaks poorly of the Bucs.
We don’t like you.
Us Floridians who know football and have it running through our blood, hate hearing from Massachusetts people like you about football. Listening to a north easterner from Massachusetts talk to us Floridians about football is like listening to a 600 lb individual try to educate us on proper diet and exercise. Massachusetts football is a joke.
Packers are losing players. For whatever reason their FA offensive and defensive players don’t want to play for them.
The Rams just lost Von Miller, Day and Williams on defense. The Rams are much weaker today on defense than they were last year. After signing Allen Robinson the Rams have no salary cap room to attract and add good defensive FA, which they desperately need as their GM has bragged about not having any draft picks.
There are no teams better than the Bucs right now in the NFC in my opinion.
Because of that, your Chicken Little routine about the Bucs upcoming season just shows your ignorance @BradyBuc
March 19th, 2022 at 12:59 pm
@Mickman,
It’s a passing league. Don’t conflate the reason he had 100 tackles with such a simple explanation.
March 19th, 2022 at 1:05 pm
Joe is going to guess if you have over 100 tackles in a season you just aren’t trying to blow guys up or only trying to force a turnover (hi Lovie) and that you are actually wrapping up and putting guys on the ground.
Joe, Whitehead did all three well
March 19th, 2022 at 1:07 pm
Too many guys try to make the big SportsCenter hit than the sure but boring tackle.
March 19th, 2022 at 2:21 pm
IMO, the biggest issue with the defense last season was JPP’s injury>>lack of effectiveness. That in turn let them double up on Shaq, all of which gave their QB more time to wait for receivers to come open. Surely didn’t help all the missed games by the db starters, but the best coverage people get beaten after enough time has gone by. I know JPP had his surgery, little else
March 19th, 2022 at 2:44 pm
I liked this guy since Rutgers. Hopefully we can get a few years out of him. He could turn out to be a sneaky upgrade
March 19th, 2022 at 3:11 pm
Society itself has grown softer in the western world and our athletes are just a reflection of that. The idiot parents that feel that everyone should get a trophy are partly to blame, but even then, if you have kids, you understand where they are coming from even if you don’t agree. The wheel of karma never stops turning and eventually we’ll be forced by circumstance to toughen up again and continue growing as a species.
Ryan was a damn good addition and sorely needed. If it’s not asking too much Licht, can we please get and older vet at corner too?
March 19th, 2022 at 3:25 pm
Whitehead was already really good at tackling.
If this guy is so good, why did the Giants cut him, saving just $700k, and why has he played on so many teams, why hasn’t he stuck around with anyone?
Nothing against him, I don’t know him, but I think those are reasonable questions to ask as people are trying to make him out to be Ronde Barber in his prime.
March 19th, 2022 at 5:19 pm
Rod Munch: How long have you followed the NFL? Good to serviceable players get cut every year. It remains to be seen if Ryan is still good/serviceable, but to immediately assume he’s not because he got cut by a rebuilding team is illogical.
March 19th, 2022 at 8:48 pm
BelleGladeBuc,
LOL. I’m a longtime Bucs season ticket holder and fan since 1976. I was at the Super Bowl in San Diego in 2003 and cried tears of joy when we finally were able to win a Lombardi and put an end to years of the Bucs being the butt of jokes on TV and in the sports media.
I was born in St. Pete, grew up in Tampa, and went to the University of South Florida (go Bulls!). From Massachussets? ROFLMAO!
I don’t only come on here to speak poorly of the Bucs. For past two years, though, I’ve posted here a lot SPEAKING POORLY ABOUT OUR TERRIBLE SECONDARY.
All you bucs ‘homers’ thinking Davis, Dean, and SMB are somehow ‘great’ players or something. They’re the #1 Liability on this entire team.
You’re just too blind in your homerism to actually see the truth.
March 19th, 2022 at 9:12 pm
BradyBucs: I don’t think the Bucs CB’s are great, but if they were as bad as you make them out to be, they surely wouldn’t be in the NFL. I’d say Davis is good with a chance at being better, Dean is above average at times, too inconsistent, below average instincts. SMB is a replaceable player at this time, he could get better, but I’m not holding my breath waiting. I’d like to see the Bucs draft a CB in the early rounds.
March 19th, 2022 at 10:05 pm
@BradyBucs
You have only stated very negative things about the Bucs on this site from what I have read.
I find it very difficult to believe that you are a fan of the Bucs.
Ronde Barber is MUCH better qualified than you of I to analyze NFL DB’s.
This is what Ronde said on the awesome Joe Bucs Fan site:
“Carlton, when I watch film, he is one of the better press-man corners in the league. What doesn’t impress you is production in terms of takeaways, but his skill on the outside is as good as anybody in football. A lot of people look at me crazy when I say that. But the reality is the guy can take away a No. 1 receiver.”
Carlton Davis held the NFL First Team All Pro Michael Thomas on the Saints to 4 targets and zero catches. Carlton Davis nicknamed Thomas “Slant Boy.”
When healthy, Davis is a great CB to have on your team.
I’ll take Ronde’s professional assessment over yours @BradyBuc.
March 19th, 2022 at 10:12 pm
Joe in Michigan,
There are a lot of mediocre players in the NFL and, yes, many of them find a way out of the NFL if they don’t dramatically improve.
I think Davis is a half-decent, but not great NFL corner. Top 25-30. But definitely not ‘elite’ like many say he is, in my opinion anyway. I don’t think Davis gets much better. He’s peaked at being half-decent and that’s what we’ll continue to get with him.
Dean is the one of the 3 that at times sure seems like he has the most upside, but you’re 100% right… he’s very inconsistent. He’ll go from playing great on a few plays to looking LOST out there on others. He’d have to have a major “shift” into taking his game up a notch if he’s going to continue to start in the NFL. He just hasn’t proven he can be a dependable cover guy.
SMB is arguably the most “athletic” of the 3, yet he has been the biggest liability. think his nice INT streak during that playoff run really overshadowed how bad he plays at times. His tackling and “football IQ” has been HORRENDOUS at times. How many times on a 3rd & long last season did his man catch a pass along the sidelines, short of the 1st down, and all he had to do was wrap him up and push him out of bounds to get the stop, yet he’d miss a sloppy arm-tackle or whiff badly rather than squaring up on his man and just driving him out of bounds for the guaranteed 3rd down stop.
I’m with you on drafting a CB early. The hardest part about the CB position is that it’s such a crapshoot with scouting. If I was the GM of a team I’d invest a nice chunk of my salary cap in signing some of the best free agent corners (when I had the chance) to fill those roles on the team rather than rely on trying to draft them. There are just too many intangibles that go into what defensive backs coming out of college will turn into top NFL cover guys – outside of the very top corner prospects.
Aside from QB, CB seems like the hardest position to find that ‘hidden gem’ in the later rounds of the Draft.
Obviously, the one way you can make up for a lackluster secondary is with a dominant pass-rush. But with a decent OL (like many of the top teams have) and 3-step drops and quick passes, the best pass rush often can’t overcome a weak secondary, especially not today in the modern NFL and how it has evolved into a passing league.
I think if we don’t find a way to add a top corner that can start across from Davis this season (whether it’s through a fortunate draft pick or some time of other pickup), we’re going to be in for a long, frustrating season where we have to “outgun” other teams and hope we put up 35 if they put up 32.
There’s nothing more frustrating in football than not being able to get a stop on 3rd down, especially 3rd and long. And our secondary has been pretty bad at getting stops at critical times.
March 19th, 2022 at 10:20 pm
BelleGladeBuc,
Any negative posting of mine is simple a PASSION for the team and expressing FRUSTRATION with certain weaknesses, like our Secondary. What makes matters worse is seeing so many Bucs fans post on this site and PRAISING the secondary players instead of well-earned CRITICISM.
Davis isn’t a terrible corner, I never said he was. I just think he’s OVERRATED. If he wasn’t, other teams would have been throwing $20M+/year contracts at him. That didn’t happen. I heard from a trusted source (my close friend that’s an NFL Agent) that the market was a bit softer for Davis than some expected.
Davis certainly has his share of solid games, not doubt about it. But he also gets BURNED quite a bit. As “Defense Rules” recently posted on this site, Davis has given up more yardage than any of our other backs.
Ronde is, obviously, a bit biased towards our team. But even he stops short of saying Davis is one of the all-around ‘elite’ corners due to his lack of takeaways and simply says he’s one of the better PRESS-MAN corners for taking WRs out of plays. There’s more to being an elite corner in the NFL than play press-man coverage.
March 19th, 2022 at 11:34 pm
we need to get better. we aren’t the best run defense anymore
March 20th, 2022 at 2:24 pm
Maybe, Joe. But he was brought in to be a veteran fallback option. Our starting safeties are Winfield and Edwards. If Ryan is getting lots of playing time, something went wrong.