Lay Off Joe Tryon-Shoyinka!
December 15th, 2021
Advanced stats are good.
This is for the quarterback pressure types. And what Joe senses on social media as a bubbling discontent for Joe Tryon-Shoyinka’s low sack numbers.
Now if you just look at the raw numbers and add zero context, comparing JTS to past Bucs rookie pass rushers since Chucky won the franchise’s first Super Bowl (Gaines Adams, Adrian Clayborn, Noah Spence), it will make you squirm in your seat.
Of course, this is irresponsible. All three of those guys had far more snaps than JTS as rookies. A deeper dive suggests JTS, for the limited snaps he has had, is impacting games. He just doesn’t have the sacks to show for it.
For example, Joe broke down the number of snaps by the Bucs’ top-five defensive linemen/outside linebackers and their quarterback pressures.
It seems JTS gets pressure on quarterbacks at a better rate than any one of the starting linemen/OLBs.
Name, QB pressures, snaps, percentage of pressure per snap
Joe Tryon-Shoyinka 18 364 4.9
Shaq Barrett 30 692 4.3
Ndamukong Suh 16 559 2.8
Will Gholston 10 368 2.7
Vita Vea 11 461 2.4
Jason Pierre-Paul 11 565 1.9
Joe also looked at quarterback hurries. This is an advanced stat that representes, as its name suggests, when a pass rusher forces a quarterback to unload the ball or escape the pocket due to pressure.
Despite playing significantly fewer snaps than Shaq Barrett (692) or Devin White (835), JTS (364 snaps) has the third-most quarterback hurries on the team with 18, trailing only Barrett (30) and White (24).
So no, while JTS’s sack numbers are middling-to-poor (he only has three sacks and just one in his past nine games) it is not like the rookie hasn’t made an impact.
JTS is going to be fine, folks.
December 15th, 2021 at 5:23 am
I see the speed n strength of Joe Tyron and the synopsis is he’ll be a very good asset to our D.
December 15th, 2021 at 5:24 am
Joe is going soft.
No erection for sacks here.
December 15th, 2021 at 5:29 am
JTS is a rookie, he has shown some flashes but definitely has work to do and improve. The troubling thing is JPP, he is injured and ineffective. He is not his usual self, maybe it will be good to rest him a couple of games with CAR and Jets. And i think the last 4 games Rojo must see some more playing time. Lenny is better than everyone is expecting but maybe will be beneficial to low the amount of hits he is taking. Not saying to sit him but give some snaps to Rojo. Lenny will be fresher for the playoffs and Rojo will get some playing time to be in shape and ready too.
December 15th, 2021 at 5:42 am
Who is worried? The team is 9-3.
December 15th, 2021 at 5:53 am
Interesting reversal of logic Joe. In numerous other articles you’ve made it pretty clear that SACKS are where it’s at. QB hits & pressures are nice, but SACKS are where it’s at.
And yet, in defending JTS, his 18 pressures are the focal point, not his ‘low sack numbers’. As in 3 (which happens to be 0.5 sacks more than JPP, and only 0.5 sacks behind White).
Still, why no mention of his biggest weakness? On way too many occasions I’ve seen him do a lousy job of sealing the edge (which JPP is awesome at BTW). Seen him get gobbled up by the play too many times, leaving his end vulnerable. And on more than 1 occasion that’s proven to be very costly.
December 15th, 2021 at 6:08 am
Honestly, I had no expectations of this kid other than to learn the game. The speed is there, the physicality is there, he just needs to clean up technique and get more snaps.
Behind Shaq and JPP, did we really expect a lot of snaps for the kid? I didn’t.
December 15th, 2021 at 6:34 am
To be fair, JTS is a rookie and is as raw as sushi. He should have nice pressure stats because he’s very single-purpose when he plays. He’s not brought in to stop the run or provide coverage. I’ve seen him blow right by a developing play that, if diagnosed, he should have stopped. He’s still “all rookie” at this point, he plays at full-speed as he hasn’t gotten to the stage where’s he’s reading then reacting.
JTS is the kind of player you wait on and hope he makes a sizable second year jump.
December 15th, 2021 at 6:49 am
ModHairKen?? I count 10 wins vs three losses for the Bucs. Which team are you referring to?
Go Bucs!
December 15th, 2021 at 6:52 am
Agree with Joe…JTS will be fine. He’ll get into the off season weight training program, put on some muscle without losing his quickness. He’ll learn a few more tricks of the trade and polish his moves. Watchout for this kid next season!
December 15th, 2021 at 6:55 am
it’s a shame jpp has been rendered useless due to the shoulder…
the injury has literally taken the beast out of him
December 15th, 2021 at 6:57 am
and for whatever reason “joe t-sho” isn’t making up for it at all…
even tho the joe’s stats show he is getting ample pressure…
does anyone remember the hopes and raving that was done about this young man in preseason???…holy moly
December 15th, 2021 at 6:58 am
he might be out of football in a couple years at this rate…
and be modeling for ralph lauren
December 15th, 2021 at 7:14 am
DR has hit the nail on the head, He needs to get better against the run. I believe its the reason that his snaps are so limited. THe DE’s that play the pass as well as the run are a necessity in this league.
December 15th, 2021 at 7:17 am
Anyone who thinks a rookie pass rusher is going to save the franchise is living in a fantasy world. Most pass rushers in this league need 2-3 years to start acclimating to the NFL. JTS at this point is a part time player. I would like to see his time on the field increase over the rest of regular season. This would give some guys some rest for the playoffs and give him much needed NFL snaps.
December 15th, 2021 at 7:22 am
If Joe has to count on JTS for his sack erections, he’l be flaccid most of the time.
December 15th, 2021 at 7:30 am
@Tampabaybuscfan
The problem with JTS is that he penetrates too fast, leading to premature discharge.
December 15th, 2021 at 7:49 am
oh so he’s a premature esackulator ?
December 15th, 2021 at 7:52 am
He is a rookie and still learning to read and react…. Talent is OFF THE FREAK’n charts!!
I have NO concerns about how he’ll turn out !
December 15th, 2021 at 7:54 am
JTS…..Premature Sackulation
December 15th, 2021 at 8:16 am
JTS is playing football right now with basically athleticism. When he finally develops his game he is gonna really be a beast to watch.
December 15th, 2021 at 8:16 am
Yes he does get off too quick and over runs the play, saw it in Bill’s game, a couple of times on the scrambles to Allen’s left and especially Allen’s TD run, he went right by JTS chasing the fake. In his defense there was a stunt on whereas Vea went in and White was supposed to go out and White chased the fake, if White did what he was supposed to do he would of been right in the hole Allen ran through. I personally think we should expect more from veteran back up DB’s than a ROOKIE LB who is handling his own. JPP made a few tackles but it is painful to watch him, doesn’t leave his feet and quits a lot on plays and we all know that’s not his game. Also someone needs to say something the Nelson, that’s back to back games he has had huge penalties at crucial times. Bucs dodged a bullet in Atlanta but Darden did his job on the KO return only to get negated by Nelson’s holding.
December 15th, 2021 at 8:18 am
Adam from NY … ‘the injury has literally taken the beast out of him (JPP)’.
Obviously JPP’s very limited due to that shoulder injury, and yet JTS, Nelson & Gill haven’t put him on the sidelines yet. Granted he makes more $$$ than all 3 combined, but Todd Bowles must feel that he still provides more upside than any of them. The times when I’ve focused on him, JPP doesn’t seem to get nearly the penetration (on most plays) that he used to (understandably), but he does a great job of sealing his side against the run & also at least gets his hands up in pass protection (has 4 PDs that way, most for the up-front guys).
December 15th, 2021 at 8:21 am
I like the energy and enthusiasm he brings. He was the first to run down the sideline and reach Perriman after the winning TD.
December 15th, 2021 at 8:40 am
Please refer to the very first sentence in this story.
December 15th, 2021 at 8:43 am
Tryon gets there in a hurry, but for some inexplicable reason he flys past the quarterback instead of at the quarterback.
Perhaps he needs to visit Jameis’s eye doctor so he can direct focus on the real thing.
December 15th, 2021 at 9:06 am
I think he will be but lets not forget we were saying the same thing about Noah Spence.
December 15th, 2021 at 9:18 am
JTS has hit his rookie wall hard, and now punctuates his running around like a chicken with his head cut off with loafing at a critical time. He was ready to watch Josh Allen score a touchdown and beat the Bucs. His coaches need to sit him down with the film and make him very uncomfortable. JTS could use a good arse beating.
December 15th, 2021 at 9:30 am
Wagging the dog again Joe.
JTS has only been put in to rush the passer, a one trick pony.
Shaq, Devin, JPP, even Suh have spent large sections of their time dropping into, or spreading out to compensate for the inadequate D backfield.
Take out all of the snaps where those guys didn’t rush and you will see that JTS needs some work.
It might be a classic rookie slump after 12 games, but he also sat out last season, so he is out of shape, some.
December 15th, 2021 at 9:35 am
We have to dig through “advance” stats to see if he’s any good…..For verification should be tell us everything we need to know.
December 15th, 2021 at 9:43 am
From what I have seen so far is joe t-sho is good enough to be on a team with other really good pass rushers, so they can’t double team him.
But he will never be a JJ Watt type that can beat double teams all day long.
December 15th, 2021 at 9:54 am
Gotta learn to finish JTS.
December 15th, 2021 at 9:57 am
Joe
On Quarterback Pressures was Joe Tryon S in primarily for passing situations or a balance like the others?
On Hurries you see a much bigger difference. JPP is wounded and just not as effective.
Some times I see him get there and not make contact. Others he almost seems like a pinball with their OL.
Still IMO things will work out well with him.
December 15th, 2021 at 10:38 am
Need more sacks from JTS, he needs to own the edge. That’s all I care about. Lol.
December 15th, 2021 at 10:47 am
Guys screw advanced stats use your eyes. He is playing very well for a late first round pick may as well be a second round pick he is looking very good as a rookie.
You guys are acting like we took him in the top 5.
December 15th, 2021 at 12:41 pm
This is why I prefer looking at sack percentages (total snaps divided by sacks) over just the total sacks, because it tells a more detailed story of what is truly going on and the effectiveness. All he needs to do is finish the ones he’s missed this year where he just wasn’t able to get them down to the ground. He’ll correct that as he matures and gains NFL experience.
I’m more than pleased w/ JTS his Rookie year.
I think his pass-rushing has been quite good this year….JUST HAVE TO FINISH THE PLAY. I do think he gets a little wild against the run and takes himself out of the play or his gap too often from doing that. But as far as strictly just pass-rushing goes, I’m nowhere even close to worried or disappointed. Almost the exact opposite!
December 15th, 2021 at 12:43 pm
….I wasn’t even aware people were laying-on JTS, for you to say lay off him here. That’s a little ridiculous if people are though.
December 15th, 2021 at 12:44 pm
The best thing I can say about JTS? He is a non factor. He is invisible. He has no impact on the game whatsoever. I’m here to tell you the guy is a bust. Thx Licht. 🙄
December 15th, 2021 at 1:00 pm
Anybody who knows football can take one look at this guy playing and realize he is going to be a 10 sack a year guy. Give it some time. This is his first football in two years and he doesn’t play a lot.
He’s learning the pro game. As he refines His skills and more importantly learns the defense, because he drops back and plays contain a lot, he’ll get better and better
December 15th, 2021 at 1:00 pm
Besides there are very very very few edge rushers that impact the game as a rookie.
December 15th, 2021 at 1:06 pm
But then some JJP is liability. Oh please. JJP missing finger (whatever it’s at) is better than JTS at the moment
December 15th, 2021 at 1:39 pm
I agree with defense rules on this one. The kid can pass rush but is soft setting the edge… Hopefully he can put on a few pounds and improve that part of his game.
December 15th, 2021 at 1:56 pm
LOL Ok he is the best 1st round pick in history. His power can not be questionwd as he bulldoers over the offense. When he is in there it is wonderful. Just watch him. What a BEAST.
December 15th, 2021 at 2:44 pm
JTS …nope…total bust.
December 15th, 2021 at 3:04 pm
Though I know you can’t judge off preseason I have no shame in admitting after such I was pegging this young man for Defensive Rookie of the Year,….. Certainly far from that but a wealth of raw talent and seemingly the motor & desire to succeed in this league so I have no worries, any production here going forward is icing on the Back2Back cake!
December 15th, 2021 at 4:04 pm
Yes lay off Tryon and we should be on Ronde Barbers case for horrible “blowout” take. Yikes was he wrong
December 15th, 2021 at 4:59 pm
You can’t expect JTS to reach his potential playing part-time snaps.
He needs the reps to build up his momentum to NFL game speed. It also takes many snaps to adjust to the nuances of the man you’re going up against to see what moves are and aren’t working against him.
They need to play JTS more and not less.
December 15th, 2021 at 5:15 pm
I’ve noticed that JTS over pursues on a lot of plays. He will not get a good angle or will get to where the qb was rather than where he is and he has missed several sacks because of it. We knew drafting him that he had raw talent and just needed some work under Bowles. I believe next year will be a breakout season for him especially if we lose JPP which in pretty sure will be the case.
December 15th, 2021 at 5:54 pm
You should never expect much of anything from a rookie, ever. As long as they’re not too slow to play at the NFL level (ie MJ Stewart), you should always allow them to have their rookie year without calling them a bust or demanding more.
The kid is a 2nd round pass rusher, the bust rate is well over 50% on those guys, and it’s pretty rare they do anything as a rookie. With that said, Tryon has shown plenty in limited amount of snaps. When he did get playing time, in the preseason, he looked awesome, like a rookie of the year level player. Right now he’s stuck behind veterans… sort of like how Ronde Barber played 1-game his rookie year. If this sites comment section was around, all the morons out there would be saying Barber was a bust.
Rookies should always get the benefit of the doubt, so long as they don’t show some trait that can’t be overcome — which is normally speed.
December 15th, 2021 at 6:06 pm
For me the only defensive stats that matter are sacks, interceptions, forced fumbles, fumble recoveries, blocked passes/kicks, qb hits, and tackles. The rest is just blah, blah, blah. Even first round rookie pass rushers usually take time to develop, so I’m cool with where he’s at. I expect a huge jump next year though.