Trading For A Pass Rusher
September 27th, 2021
Bucs GM Jason Licht
Joe’s a little surprised that all the screaming for the Bucs to get help in their secondary isn’t accompanied by the obvious for a team with three sacks in three games.
Can we get a pass rusher instead, or too?
The Bucs have three sacks in three games despite leading the league in blitzing and huge investments in their front-7, as well as superior coaching. Keep in mind they just faced two immobile quarterbacks and Tampa Bay averaged three sacks a game last season.
Ndamukong Suh and manbeast Vita Vea have had their playing time slashed.
Shaq Barrett had a brutal day yesterday, and Jason Pierre-Paul has a significant injury.
Anthony Nelson is no pass rusher and Joe Tryon-Shoyinka is still learning.
Joe will always be the first guy to wave a flag and say a pass rusher is more important than a defensive back. And Joe’s not going to be a hypocrite today.
Obviously, the Bucs could use help in their secondary because of injuries, but maybe Suh’s aging and Pierre-Paul’s injury are equally disturbing?
Joe would not moan for a minute if general manager chased pass-rushing help in the coming weeks over a cornerback.
September 27th, 2021 at 4:26 pm
I found myself at several times during the rams game, saying ” who the hell is that”
September 27th, 2021 at 4:30 pm
The Rams looked like a younger version of the Bucs…
September 27th, 2021 at 4:33 pm
Why not sign Geno Atinks ?
September 27th, 2021 at 4:35 pm
Jamie Collins can be had…
September 27th, 2021 at 4:37 pm
I’m not sure who is out there or who would even be good , I don’t think there are a lot of pass rushers period on any team
September 27th, 2021 at 4:40 pm
I don’t know Dee Delaney would probably s__k with a pass rush just saying.
September 27th, 2021 at 4:40 pm
Shaq Barrett — over-hyped, over-paid, over-promises, under-delivers…..pretty ordinary with JPP on the mend….
September 27th, 2021 at 4:43 pm
Both JPP and Shaq might need to appear on milk cartons as missing persons. JPP might be are age or injury related, but Shaq doesn’t have that excuse. He appears out of shape. Perhaps he’ll be in better shape as the season progresses. You have to wonder if the Buc strength and conditioning coach called for an intervention during the preseason.
If JPP is shot, Tryon-Shoyinka can step up. He won’t be as complete a player, but some OJT between now and the postseason will help his cause. I’d gamble that Shaq will improve his conditioning as the season progresses. That means no trade for now, the priority should be to find a starting CB, possibly two.
September 27th, 2021 at 4:44 pm
I see your point, Joe. But how do you insure (to any reasonable degree) that the rusher you trade for does not produce as he has in the past? Case in point; Shaq.
September 27th, 2021 at 4:45 pm
Thomas exactly 17 mil a year for 1 sack in 3 games. That comes to about six this year.
September 27th, 2021 at 4:47 pm
Suh is not the problem. He has a sack. It’s Barrett, the Invisible Man. Got his contract. Now what? Sack record? Get busy, buddy. Where was Tryon?
And, where is the blitzing? Where is 45? Missing tackles and getting beat in coverage. He’s the 7-5 White. Not Playoff Devin.
Where’s the contact at the line with WRs? I’ve never seen guys get as turned around as Tampa CBs. Wait, yes I did. First KC game last year. Kupp and that bad attitude fossil DeSean Jackson? Come on. You’re better than that. I think.
The Super Bowl celebration is now officially over. WTFU. You better get after this rookie. Or you will be 2-2 and the joke of the NFL.
September 27th, 2021 at 4:48 pm
How can you really go get a pass rusher though. Teams did exactly what was expected and copied their formula by getting pass rushers only they are younger. Shaq just got paid and we drafted jpp replacement.
These dudes thought they would use the same formula as last year and now they have to. Who’s going to want to give Tampa more pass rushers knowing they’ll be in the mix to get back to the super bowl? Same thing happened last year. Whenever we get carved up BA blames the front seven but all off-season the talk was about how the secondary was the weak link
September 27th, 2021 at 4:48 pm
Nope!
We have the talent, play them until they get it right or quit and retire!
Same thing with the OL on run blocking!
Yesterday they were beaten man for man by players on the Rams that simply WANTED IT MORE!
September 27th, 2021 at 4:49 pm
Is Olivier Vernon available?
September 27th, 2021 at 4:51 pm
Cornerbacks over pass rushers in this situation. We’re playing 10 yards off the wide receivers like Lovie Smith is still here. No wonder our defensive line couldn’t get to Stanford and other qbs. Just very inconsistent in the secondary.
September 27th, 2021 at 4:51 pm
Kind of irrelevant BUT is@Joebucsfan still convinced our secondary is as good as he advertised he ESPECIALLY DEAN or do we all agree this guy is trash and that we do need help in the secondary particularly someone to come in and start right away lol asking for a friend…GOBUCS!
September 27th, 2021 at 4:56 pm
Jamie collins contract for the rest of year is $3.3m.
September 27th, 2021 at 4:57 pm
Wait, see you saying that getting 17 sacks as a TEAM in the season isn’t good?
😭😭
September 27th, 2021 at 4:58 pm
I was thinking the same thing Joe, until Dean went down. If we can get both, awesome. At this point tho, I’m not sure what the right answer is
September 27th, 2021 at 5:04 pm
We don’t need more pass rushers, we need QBs to hold the ball longer to lead to more sacks. It’s pretty simple.
With our corners playing with such a huge cushion, and being so terrible, QBs don’t have to go through as many reads/progressions as most WRs are clearly open so they get rid of the ball much faster than usual.
September 27th, 2021 at 5:06 pm
Lets stop with all the slack for JTS9……He’s a first round pick…time to step up and make some plays….
Let’s try to go with a 1 yard cushion instead of 10…..especially on 3rd & 5
We really don’t have many players to trade……Stennie, OJ…..Gabbert (oh wait)
September 27th, 2021 at 5:12 pm
Great. Here we are going for a repeat and Suh goes The Full McCoy. Ugh.
September 27th, 2021 at 5:18 pm
The Bucs lost one game.
I not gonna fall on my sword.
September 27th, 2021 at 5:19 pm
Don’t say McCoy
September 27th, 2021 at 5:20 pm
Ok let me see if i understand this. Our secondary have been molested. Even this 70 yr. old country boy knew the only way we would win this game is by scoring on every possession because i knew Matt would filet our defense. SO, what do we want to do? Go out and get another pass rusher. COME ON MAN. we need another kicker to help with the pass rush. If a man punches you just slap his wife. LOL
September 27th, 2021 at 5:22 pm
My dad and I were just saying the same thing. Surely a crappy team with a good pass rusher would be willing to make a deal.
September 27th, 2021 at 5:27 pm
Really?
We are 2-1 calm down
September 27th, 2021 at 5:29 pm
JOe
We need a CB (or two), a RB, and THEN we can talk DE.
September 27th, 2021 at 5:31 pm
Speaking of desean , you gotta hand it to Stafford. Seeing a QB who can make use of Jackson with over the shoulder passes on the money, Versus friggin Jameis.
September 27th, 2021 at 5:32 pm
These Bucs that play hard for a contract like Barrett and then get paid and suck are the problem. He is the number one issue on the defense because he is the highest paid member of the defense. He has not been disruptive at all and appears overweight. They always say its hard to make trades in your division but if the Panthers want to upgrade their offense the Bucs would be smart to talk to to them about getting some of their defensive line talent. Trade a premium draft pick with OJ Howard, Tyler Johnson and Scotty Miller for their second best defensive lineman. We need some younger hungier and nastier guys rushing the passer. To get talent you have to give up talent. Tyler looks like he can be a very good number two receiver on a team that is short on receivers like Panthers are.
Bucs need to get more talent on this D line and more disruption.
September 27th, 2021 at 5:35 pm
I think the Bucs will bounce back on defense. We aren’t going to win every game. This is still a good team with good coaches. Winning another Super Bowl would be great but odds are against it. It can still happen though. We need to make the playoffs, even as a wildcard. I’d rather see this team peaking in December than in September. Correct the mistakes and make adjustments. If Licht can still get good players to help, I’m all for it. We had some terrible games last season and still won a championship. Don’t panic and just keep working hard to make it to the show. Injuries are something every team faces and some years are worse than others. If we end up with only a handful of wins, I’m still happy because we just won the Super Bowl and you can’t win them all. Btw, the Rams look really good and poised to make a run in a very tough division.
September 27th, 2021 at 5:38 pm
its not that its just 1 game, but we also gave up 400 passing yds to D. Prescott and Da Boys.
We have little pressure up front and our secondary is playing like they did in the 1st half of last season, not like the playoffs. Only the Offense is playing mostly like the playoffs except the run game is hit & miss.
Chiefs D is also playing worse than their playoff run last season.
September 27th, 2021 at 5:40 pm
This is starting to get comical. Oh ya, a veteran CB will save us. Nah make that a veteran pass rusher; he’ll save us. Break out the checkbook Glazers. No problem; we can buy ourselves out of this.
Two months ago there seemed to be a LOT of Bucs’ fans riding the 17-0 train, sure that we were gonna cruise to another SB win after that. After all, our brilliant GM had pulled off the impossible: he’d re-signed ALL of our SB starters, so how could we not win a 2nd SB in a row?
Seems that a funny thing happened on the way to the 2021 season: some other teams actually got better. Like the Rams? Cowboys even looked like they got better. And in the process they seem to have stumbled on a formula about how to score on our Bucs. And oh ya, it seems like I remember the catch-phrase ‘Camp Cupcake’ from this summer. Seems like I also remember players not showing up early-on to get ready for training camp. I mean after all, we’re the SB Champs. Last year’s formula worked; let’s just repeat that.
For these first 3 games our defense especially has looked lackluster. Not just the DLine, but also the LBs and our Secondary. They haven’t looked one bit like SB Champs. They’re certainly not MAKING PLAYS like they did last season, and especially after we started 7-5. Fortunately we’re 2-1 regardless of how we got there. Time to put on our big-boy pants and kick some ass. No excuses.
September 27th, 2021 at 5:42 pm
A little early for a freakout but maybe that’s just me.
September 27th, 2021 at 5:47 pm
If Shaq wants to break the season sack record, may as well get started. Lol. He came to camp soft and still looks pudgy. Prolly thought the NFL was going to anoint him the record.
September 27th, 2021 at 6:01 pm
Look I agree that we don’t need to panic yet, but the reality is Cockrell and Delaney aren’t going to cut it on a SB quest, so we need at least 1 CB if Dean is out for any extended amount of time.
And as for the pass rush… 3 sacks in 3 games is simply UNACCEPTABLE!
Go get anyone you can to rush the passer.
Joe is right.
September 27th, 2021 at 6:10 pm
So who is Thai magic pass rusher that the team can get without leveraging the entire future that a team would be willing to give up?
It’s going to be a lot easier to get secondary help then pass rush help. Joe isn’t wrong that pass rush is more important but we have practice squad guys starting out there the need is defensive backfield help. The pass rush will probably get better as the season goes on.
Get some help in the secondary we are one Carlton Davis bad hit away from starting al backups and practice squad guys back there.
September 27th, 2021 at 6:12 pm
The only situation I could see happening was if the Bucs gave up rojo, Howard a first and more picks to the jags for Josh Allen. That is if they want to give him up. Outside of that there isn’t anyone worth a hoot to trade for that a team will give up.
I bring the jags up because they would be the one team dumb enough to take that trade.
September 27th, 2021 at 6:21 pm
Who are you going to bench? They just gave Barrett $17 million per year and drafted a DE in the first round.
Teams will continue to play max protect and let their recievers win one on one’s against our junior varsity secondary week after week. Until there are defensive backs out there that can challenge recievers, our defensive line will be neutralized and QB’s will be able to pick their poison.
You would have to be an absolute idiot to look at our current defensive roster and think the d-line is the issue.
How long during a game do you think it takes for that front four to realize that no matter how fast they get there, there will always be an open reciever behind them for the QB to dump the ball off to? Demoralizing, especially for a group that has proven time and time again that they can get there if they are given even a half a second more to rush.
This is an asinine discussion.
If you want to talk about the head scratching alignments that they’re coming out in then we can talk, but trying to find another guy to rush hard only to get close is a pointless endeavor.
September 27th, 2021 at 6:22 pm
Here’s my solution to this situation :
September 27th, 2021 at 6:24 pm
2 or 3 plays played better and the BUCS win that game. Examples Dean catches the interception. Several of the pre snap motion penalties. Mis communications in the secondary. Give the Rams credit they made more plays less penalties. The BUCS need to fix that!
September 27th, 2021 at 6:28 pm
Not time to panic!!! There is still 14 more regular season games to play. GO BUCS!!
September 27th, 2021 at 6:28 pm
McClendon has been garbage since he got here. I don’t know about his prior days, but how does that guy get so many snaps? smh
September 27th, 2021 at 6:40 pm
Gravediggers is right…..but who’s grave?
September 27th, 2021 at 6:46 pm
@gotbucs
“ How long during a game do you think it takes for that front four to realize that no matter how fast they get there, there will always be an open reciever behind them for the QB to dump the ball off to?”
Well if they actually “got there”, even just one time (before the 4th quarter when the game was over) maybe you would have a point…
September 27th, 2021 at 6:58 pm
Trade with the Panthers? That’s crazy talk. Also why would they want a #4 wr for dline talent? They have 2 1000 yard receivers and a good rookie already on the roster.
September 27th, 2021 at 6:58 pm
Leeman Bennett live by the blitz die bye the blitz if the bucs are not going to get a veteran corner lets just live or die by the blitz.
September 27th, 2021 at 7:14 pm
I am glad I am not the only one wondering where the hell was Vea and Suh. Apparently healthy, the coaches just decided that Nacho, Mclendon and the water boy needed to get some snaps. Wtf, two of your best interior linemen/pass rushers are riding the pine. Vea is a young guy he doesn’t need to be on a snap count. Especially considering the pressure he can get right up the gut which would keep Stafford from being able to step into throws.
September 27th, 2021 at 7:20 pm
White was in on some blitzes, but Sony Michele handled him.
We tried blitzes from the outside, but Stafford kept getting the ball out quickly.
They were well prepared for us, and we were not all that well prepared for them.
Yes, a good pass rusher would be nice, as would some secondary help.
September 27th, 2021 at 7:55 pm
ok so the defense basically sucks now…
the best thing about our D now is the twang in shaq’s voice when he talks to the media…
and that devin white talks a lot of sh!t…
other than that the D looks really bad – the whole dam thing – all 3 groups…
hopefully they’ve just been lampin’ since they won a title…
and maybe now a loss will take them off their “superbowl magic carpet ride”, and they’ll hit another gear…
who knows – time will tell – we shall see…
#NoMoreTipToeingThruTheTulips
September 27th, 2021 at 7:59 pm
i hope they don’t let tom down at foxboro…
and let the rookie and belichik roast them for 500 total yards and say 35 points…
yikes
September 27th, 2021 at 8:03 pm
It was a beat down, no two ways about it. Bucs need to pick themselves up and shake it off and come back swinging.
September 27th, 2021 at 8:57 pm
with our secodary I dont care who you put up there someone will always be open.
September 27th, 2021 at 9:19 pm
I agree Joe!
September 27th, 2021 at 9:43 pm
At this point in the season the quality players are gone. To much football left for anyone to trade guys that are worth a damn. Maybe the guys we have need to step up and earn their damn paycheck. They get paid millions for a reason.
September 27th, 2021 at 9:49 pm
@unbelievable
So basically you think Barrett, JPP, Vea, and Suh have all forgotten how to rush the QB, is that it?
What’s more likely, that whole group of d-linemen doesn’t know how to get to the QB, or the likes of what’s his name 1, what’s his name 2, and what’s his name 3 can’t cover long enough for the rush to get there?
This is the classic chicken or the egg puzzle, what came first the pass rush or the pass coverage? I think I’ll take the side of the proven players that have played in tons of NFL games over the guys that literally just came in off the street.
September 27th, 2021 at 9:56 pm
So 3 weeks in and the pass rush is so non-existent a trade is necessary. No to mention the secondary can’t cover a blade of grass and lacks anyone special. Wow.
September 27th, 2021 at 10:02 pm
gotbbucs … “Demoralizing, especially for a group that has proven time and time again that they can get there if they are given even a half a second more to rush.”
You’re exactly right gotbbucs, give our DLine roughly half a second more and the sacks & pressures will go up significantly. How to do that? Take away the short stuff. We’ve been letting the receivers run wild close in because we’ve largely been vacating those zones.
Bucs blitzed 60 times in Game 1; LVD & White had 19 of those. Bucs blitzed 40 times in Game 2; LVD & White had 14 of those. (Results for Game 3 not out yet). So of our 100 blitzes in 2 games, LVD (15) and White (18) had one-third of them.
And in those 2 games, LVD was targeted 16 times & 14 were complete. White was targeted 16 times & 15 were complete. So roughly one-third (32) of opposing QBs targets were against LVD & White, and 29 of those were completed. Both of those LBs are fast enough to stay with most any receiver in that short zone. Maybe all we need to do is to use LVD & White more in coverage, and give our DLine time to bury the opposing QB while he holds the ball for a tad longer waiting for other receivers to get open deeper downfield.
September 27th, 2021 at 10:05 pm
One game people. Relax
September 27th, 2021 at 10:20 pm
A good portion of the Bucs strength did not even play yesterday. Had they the outcome may have been different. The Rams have 0 depth if they have an injury or two in the right places they are done whereas the Bucs as you can see are at least competitive. Go Bucs
September 27th, 2021 at 10:53 pm
I think the pass rush can be fixed with different blitz packages and possibly different alignments on the front. The CB’s are another story, we don’t have any shutdown corners and these guys are so green they are lost in the backfield. Bowles better also come up with different coverages, we can’t keep playing so far off the receivers.
Right now we need to sign Sherman and fast.
September 27th, 2021 at 11:15 pm
One thing is for deyam skippy, Bucs better find a pass rush or outscore everybody else. Teams are noticing our Defensive flaws. And they are GLARING>
September 28th, 2021 at 1:13 am
@gotbucs- “ guys that literally just came in off the street”
Carlton Davis just came off the street? Jamel Dean? Those guys weren’t starters last year? Please dude.
As for the “ proven players that have played in tons of NFL games” that you mentioned, how exactly are they doing so far? Let’s see…
JPP – 2 games, 0 sacks, 0 QB hits
Shaq Barrett – 3 games, 1 sack, 3 QB hits
Suh – 3 games, 1 sack, 3 QB hits
That ain’t gonna cut it. Vea is playing great, but all our pass rush is doing is moving the pocket a bit. Actual pressure is almost non existent, whether it’s a shirt or a long pass.
BTW- what are Shaqs stats when JPP doesn’t play? Or Vea? I’ll wait…
September 28th, 2021 at 2:28 am
I’m thinking this starts from the back – corners and scheme. Corners are playing poorly and/or off enough to allow any QB able to get rid of the ball quickly to look pretty good. The difference has been slim; the extra half-second that better coverage could buy would be enough for the front four to make dirtier quarterbacks.
September 28th, 2021 at 3:37 am
The defense is as good as the weakest link. Great secondary but no pass rush does not work because eventually someone will get open. Great pass rush and no secondary does not work as the QB will find an open receiver before the pass rush gets to him.
The Bucs fall in the latter case. Fix the secondary. Then the pass rush will have the extra half second to get to the QB. The pass rush will be fine.
September 28th, 2021 at 9:09 am
Wake the f__k up Shaq. The Super Bowl party is over.
September 28th, 2021 at 9:11 am
Forget the future, trade away some high picks from our next two drafts for a good pass rusher and cornerback if it’s even possible. Brady ain’t getting any younger and our defense needs to be reloaded.
It’s still way too early to fret overly much, but as of right now, signing Shaq to a big deal looks like a mistake. Hopefully, he can figure it out and be dominant again. I hope he doesn’t turn into another poster boy for the pure insanity of giving these guys guaranteed money in their contracts. What fool owner decided that this was a good idea? I need to research the history on this so I know who to curse under my breath when players don’t live up to their contracts. For the record, I don’t blame the players one bit and I’d be wanting all of the guaranteed money that I could possibly get too. I fully blame the owners who seem hell bent on ruining a great sport with their nonsense. We, the fans, pay the price when our team is bogged down in salary cap hell, not the players, and certainly not the owners.
September 28th, 2021 at 9:14 am
It’s time to get Khalil Davis off the shelf and give him a chance over McClendon since nobody is even attempting to run the ball, see what he has
September 28th, 2021 at 10:21 am
That fact that we didn’t sack Matt Ryan at least 5 times was terrifying to me. I’m not surprised the secondary looks bad. Injuries will do that. But our boys up front need to start eating!! Shaq has been awful.
September 28th, 2021 at 10:28 am
Who’s rushing the passer doesn’t matter when the QB has a man wide open immediately. Even a guy coming unblocked won’t make it to the QB before he throws because we’re letting WRs run so freely.
September 28th, 2021 at 12:02 pm
Strange thing was after Tyrek Hill burned the Bucs so badly in the regular season game last year, the Bucs clamped down on him in the Super Bowl. Why on earth can’t they do the same thing with Cooper Kupp. He is the top offensive player on the Rams and you have to adjust and let those other guys beat you. If they would have locked him down more, the big plays to Jackson would still be there but the time of possession the Rams enjoyed would given the ball back to the Bucs. Cooper was gold on third down and kept finding the space on either side of the hash marks. He should have been shadowed whole game like they did to Hill.
Kupp’s 9 catches kept the Bucs defense on the field.
September 28th, 2021 at 12:05 pm
3 sacks in 3 games, let’s blame the secondary lol
September 28th, 2021 at 12:14 pm
If it continues, then it is a problem. The Bucs are still 2-1. We Bucs fans need to stop reverting back to the past when we had every reason to worry. Those days are gone for the present.
September 29th, 2021 at 10:25 am
League is changing before your eyes. Secondary is going to be paramount now and it’s starting now. No more pass rushers, we’re going to need sound secondary players over anything in the front seven. If you noticed against the Rams, it wouldn’t have mattered if we had Aaron Donald out there, they know to chip out best rusher, and get the ball out quick. Even when they weren’t chipping, Stafford got the ball out of his hands so quick it wouldn’t have made any difference whatsoever having AD there. It’s all about the secondary now.
September 30th, 2021 at 1:10 pm
Relax, 2-1 !