I trust Todd Bowles. He knows what he NEEDS to make this defense purr. I just can’t see how Shaq’s 2020 production is worth $20 mil a year.
Bucs are woefully short on DEPTH. $20 mil should buy a quality replacement for Shaq PLUS provide enough leftover cash to buy 1 or 2 quality key rotational players. Bucs were very fortunate last year in that the only defensive player who went down for any extended period of time was Vea, and also that we were able to sign McLendon as his replacement for relatively little ($2.8 mil) because that’s all we had (very little).
Certainly Shaq did not have the regular season he did last year, but frankly, we all knew that was coming. However, he was missing Vita Vea, and the subtle decline of Suh and the seeming disappearance of JPP for a few weeks certainly did not help his cause. That being said, he SHOWED UP when it meant the most, he was an absolute wrecking ball in the playoffs. We don’t win any of those playoff games without Shaq. THAT is earning your money, showing up when it matters most.
I like Shaq and would have kept him over Godwin…., but Godwin will be money for a new Qb not far out. Short term it stings, long term it makes sense. The choice has already been made. They think they can equal Shaqs 2020 production cheaper and draft someone to groom……which they should be able to with the defense around him.
Bucsfanman Says I’d be curious to know the reasons for the “no’s”.
Because the cap has gone down, a lot of top talent is being released and will continue to be released. As a result, we could replace Shaq without a reduction in quality.
For example, they estimated Lavante David at just under $13m per year and he got just over $10m.
The franchise amount for Shaq would have been around $18m-$19m. I suspect around $20m is going to be the price, and he is worth it.
Back to devil’s advocate
That said…as I pointed out above, some great talent is being released. We may be able to get it for two-thirds of that price.
Shaq has been bounced around constantly. His last team didn’t think he was worth the money, so he came here and proved he is. If you ask me, Shaq and Vea are the top priorities on the defensive line. They are the young talent. Suh and JLP are important in the now, but they’ll be gone in a year or so, if not sooner.
Any of these free agents we bring in to replace Shaq would be on one year deals…no way are their agents going to take more because the cap will go back up next year.
To keep most of the team together signing the combo of david and godwin probably the way to go plus less riskiest. We havent really seen barret play after signing a big contract while david has proved his level wont drop off
Defense Rules Says:
“Bucs are woefully short on DEPTH. $20 mil should buy a quality replacement for Shaq…”
Except that any replacement would be short term because all of these great free agents who are being cut for cap space know they can get more money next year, so they will only sign one year deals atm.
Better to keep Shaq and watch him continue to blossom.
I was skeptical of Shaq at first, and he proved me wrong. He’s worth it.
pewter941 Says
“If we can keep most everyone and Shaq than yes. if were going to lose like 5 players because of it (Suh, Gronk, Brate, Cam etc.) than no.”
Brate is locked in until 2024. (‘Cam’ is ‘Brate’)
Gronk wasn’t worth the money he got. Pay him less. Suh will be $10m, just like last year.
@DR, not sure “depth” is a consideration. Not when the Bucs franchise tag CG and WR is one of the deepest spots on the roster. Don’t get me wrong. I love CG. Classy kid, great player, fits the scheme so perfectly. But they spent a lot of money at that position that is NOT a need.
I preferred Shaq as my #1 resigning. If you want to save money, the Bucs should have done it with Godwin.
I voted yes. With several restructures or added years coming for possibly Brady, Evans, Jensen, etc. the Bucs should have the cap space to re-sign Shaq, Gronk, Suh, Succop, and AB.
If Shaq decides to leave, I don’t think all hope is lost. There are several other edge rushers in free agency, including Yannick Ngakoue (remember when one of the Joes wanted this guy so bad? He doesn’t want him anymore? I understand, though. We know what Shaq can do.), Matt Judon, Bud Dupree (health?), Trey Hendrickson, and Leonard Floyd.
Buccaneer Bonzai I just saw we have 48 players signed so far, I dont know if its with David included though, so it guess were almost at roster full capacity. And we will need to make room for our draft picks.
@Senor Harry … “I preferred Shaq as my #1 resigning. If you want to save money, the Bucs should have done it with Godwin.
I agree 100%, BUT … the Bucs’ hierarchy went a different way. I have no idea right now how this will all play out, but if they screw up the BALANCE between offense & defense then we’re toast. It takes BOTH a quality offense AND a strong defense to win championships in today’s NFL.
@First Down Tampa Bay … “He (Shaq) was missing Vita Vea, and the subtle decline of Suh and the seeming disappearance of JPP for a few weeks certainly did not help his cause.”
Oh that’s wrong on so many levels FDTB. Suh didn’t “decline” at all; quite the contrary. He gave us SIX sacks & 19 QB Hits in 2020, as opposed to 2.5 sacks & 14 QB Hits in 2019. And JPP also had a better 2020 than 2019 (9.5 sacks, 14 QB Hits, 6 PD & 2 FR in 2020 versus 8.5 sacks, 16 QB Hits, 2 PD & 0 FR in 2019). As far as Shaq ‘missing Vea’ goes, paying someone $16 mil to do a job (2020) kinda comes with certain ‘expectations’; you don’t get to use the ‘Hey, my buddy broke his leg so my performance suffered’ card. When you pay someone that much $$$ (and more) I EXPECT them to be the lead dog; no excuses.
Profootballreference advanced defensive stats also shows that Shaq blitzed a lot more in 2019 (174) as opposed to 2020 (121) yet still managed to reach a similar amount of pressures in 2020 (42, received 54 in 2019). He also had 10 more QB hurries (24 instead of 14) in 2020. His sack totals (8 vs 19.5) and QB knockdowns (8 vs 16) were much less Maybe he was simply asked to do less? Pay the man.
I voted no only because its not that simple. If it is cut and dry, either we have him or not, then yes I absolutely want him. He was my #1 priority. But if you are really asking him and lose out on many others due to him making top dollar then I say no. Lavonte chose not to make top dollar. Brady isnt making top dollar. Evans isnt making top dollar. Gronk and Suh most likely wont be making top dollar. JPP isnt making top dollar. If he wants to be a part of this, he needs to look around and realize so many of the top players are sacrificing a little to keep everyone and so far no one is complaining about the money. I still say give him 16-18 per year, but not 20+.
NO. Godwin and LVD return, it’s highly unlikely. The money isn’t there. This Shaq bandwagon is terrible.
“We wouldn’t of won the Super Bowl without Shaq. “
What a f#cking disgrace to the GOATs number seven team. People are chumps. Let’s go out and pay younger Lenny top tier RB money for a “meh” season and blowing up in the playoffs. Licht and Bowels are great scouts and will be able to find a cheaper FA or rookie or both to fit the scheme.
Succop is next man up and he’s gonna get good kicker money.
I look at it more from owners perspective do you want to pay david who has proven his level wont drop off after a big contract. Do you want to pay godwin who said he will be happy to go to war again if he gets franchised or are you comfortable signing someone who wants to take you to the bank.
Sometimes its not about x’s and o’s
I really dont understand the Shaq is “good not great” crowd.
If being the NFL sack leader year 1 as a full time starter then having a dominant post season and superbowl preformance in year 2 isnt elite then I dont know what is.
March 11th, 2021 at 5:46 am
I’d be curious to know the reasons for the “no’s”. All things being equal and being able to afford his salary, why shouldn’t he be paid his worth?
March 11th, 2021 at 6:37 am
Yes, yes, yes
March 11th, 2021 at 6:45 am
Nope! Top dollar is between $22M-27M/yr. I’d rather sign other all our other free agents and Ngakoue or Dunlap
March 11th, 2021 at 7:44 am
I trust Todd Bowles. He knows what he NEEDS to make this defense purr. I just can’t see how Shaq’s 2020 production is worth $20 mil a year.
Bucs are woefully short on DEPTH. $20 mil should buy a quality replacement for Shaq PLUS provide enough leftover cash to buy 1 or 2 quality key rotational players. Bucs were very fortunate last year in that the only defensive player who went down for any extended period of time was Vea, and also that we were able to sign McLendon as his replacement for relatively little ($2.8 mil) because that’s all we had (very little).
March 11th, 2021 at 7:59 am
Man, there’s no way I’d slap Lavonte like that. Asking an elite LB to accept $12.5 a year and then giving Shaq $20,000.? gtfoh
March 11th, 2021 at 8:15 am
Certainly Shaq did not have the regular season he did last year, but frankly, we all knew that was coming. However, he was missing Vita Vea, and the subtle decline of Suh and the seeming disappearance of JPP for a few weeks certainly did not help his cause. That being said, he SHOWED UP when it meant the most, he was an absolute wrecking ball in the playoffs. We don’t win any of those playoff games without Shaq. THAT is earning your money, showing up when it matters most.
March 11th, 2021 at 8:16 am
If you pay him say goodbye to every other free agent we have.
March 11th, 2021 at 8:16 am
I like Shaq and would have kept him over Godwin…., but Godwin will be money for a new Qb not far out. Short term it stings, long term it makes sense. The choice has already been made. They think they can equal Shaqs 2020 production cheaper and draft someone to groom……which they should be able to with the defense around him.
March 11th, 2021 at 8:16 am
I bit my tongue and voted yes. Our time to win is now and despite evidence to the contrary Brady is not immortal. 😋
March 11th, 2021 at 8:35 am
I voted yes…but…I’ll play devils advocate…
Bucsfanman Says
I’d be curious to know the reasons for the “no’s”.
Because the cap has gone down, a lot of top talent is being released and will continue to be released. As a result, we could replace Shaq without a reduction in quality.
QUE589 Says
Top dollar is between $22M-27M/yr.
I don’t think that’s true at all. Spotrac lists Shaq’s value at under $20m per year. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tampa-bay-buccaneers/shaquil-barrett-14689/market-value/
They tend to over estimate values.
For example, they estimated Lavante David at just under $13m per year and he got just over $10m.
The franchise amount for Shaq would have been around $18m-$19m. I suspect around $20m is going to be the price, and he is worth it.
Back to devil’s advocate
That said…as I pointed out above, some great talent is being released. We may be able to get it for two-thirds of that price.
Shaq has been bounced around constantly. His last team didn’t think he was worth the money, so he came here and proved he is. If you ask me, Shaq and Vea are the top priorities on the defensive line. They are the young talent. Suh and JLP are important in the now, but they’ll be gone in a year or so, if not sooner.
Any of these free agents we bring in to replace Shaq would be on one year deals…no way are their agents going to take more because the cap will go back up next year.
March 11th, 2021 at 8:35 am
If we can keep most everyone and Shaq than yes. if were going to lose like 5 players because of it (Suh, Gronk, Brate, Cam etc.) than no.
March 11th, 2021 at 8:39 am
stvcl Says
“Man, there’s no way I’d slap Lavonte like that. Asking an elite LB to accept $12.5 a year and then giving Shaq $20,000.”
That’s business, man, and David knows it. He’s in his declining years. He was making $8m/year before, now he’s making $10m. He’s happy.
And you don’t think he already knows Shaq will get double?
March 11th, 2021 at 8:40 am
To keep most of the team together signing the combo of david and godwin probably the way to go plus less riskiest. We havent really seen barret play after signing a big contract while david has proved his level wont drop off
March 11th, 2021 at 8:41 am
Defense Rules Says:
“Bucs are woefully short on DEPTH. $20 mil should buy a quality replacement for Shaq…”
Except that any replacement would be short term because all of these great free agents who are being cut for cap space know they can get more money next year, so they will only sign one year deals atm.
Better to keep Shaq and watch him continue to blossom.
I was skeptical of Shaq at first, and he proved me wrong. He’s worth it.
March 11th, 2021 at 8:42 am
Good, 51% of the other people in here are smart too!!!
March 11th, 2021 at 8:45 am
pewter941 Says
“If we can keep most everyone and Shaq than yes. if were going to lose like 5 players because of it (Suh, Gronk, Brate, Cam etc.) than no.”
Brate is locked in until 2024. (‘Cam’ is ‘Brate’)
Gronk wasn’t worth the money he got. Pay him less. Suh will be $10m, just like last year.
March 11th, 2021 at 8:46 am
@DR, not sure “depth” is a consideration. Not when the Bucs franchise tag CG and WR is one of the deepest spots on the roster. Don’t get me wrong. I love CG. Classy kid, great player, fits the scheme so perfectly. But they spent a lot of money at that position that is NOT a need.
I preferred Shaq as my #1 resigning. If you want to save money, the Bucs should have done it with Godwin.
March 11th, 2021 at 8:52 am
I voted yes. With several restructures or added years coming for possibly Brady, Evans, Jensen, etc. the Bucs should have the cap space to re-sign Shaq, Gronk, Suh, Succop, and AB.
If Shaq decides to leave, I don’t think all hope is lost. There are several other edge rushers in free agency, including Yannick Ngakoue (remember when one of the Joes wanted this guy so bad? He doesn’t want him anymore? I understand, though. We know what Shaq can do.), Matt Judon, Bud Dupree (health?), Trey Hendrickson, and Leonard Floyd.
March 11th, 2021 at 8:57 am
Buccaneer Bonzai I just saw we have 48 players signed so far, I dont know if its with David included though, so it guess were almost at roster full capacity. And we will need to make room for our draft picks.
March 11th, 2021 at 9:34 am
These results aren’t surprising when you consider the average IQ in the USA is 98.
March 11th, 2021 at 9:43 am
@Senor Harry … “I preferred Shaq as my #1 resigning. If you want to save money, the Bucs should have done it with Godwin.
I agree 100%, BUT … the Bucs’ hierarchy went a different way. I have no idea right now how this will all play out, but if they screw up the BALANCE between offense & defense then we’re toast. It takes BOTH a quality offense AND a strong defense to win championships in today’s NFL.
@First Down Tampa Bay … “He (Shaq) was missing Vita Vea, and the subtle decline of Suh and the seeming disappearance of JPP for a few weeks certainly did not help his cause.”
Oh that’s wrong on so many levels FDTB. Suh didn’t “decline” at all; quite the contrary. He gave us SIX sacks & 19 QB Hits in 2020, as opposed to 2.5 sacks & 14 QB Hits in 2019. And JPP also had a better 2020 than 2019 (9.5 sacks, 14 QB Hits, 6 PD & 2 FR in 2020 versus 8.5 sacks, 16 QB Hits, 2 PD & 0 FR in 2019). As far as Shaq ‘missing Vea’ goes, paying someone $16 mil to do a job (2020) kinda comes with certain ‘expectations’; you don’t get to use the ‘Hey, my buddy broke his leg so my performance suffered’ card. When you pay someone that much $$$ (and more) I EXPECT them to be the lead dog; no excuses.
March 11th, 2021 at 9:55 am
yes…
the defense needs shaq and shaq needs the defense….
licht will get it done…he’s smart enough to NOT screw this up…lol…
GO BUCS!!!
March 11th, 2021 at 10:02 am
Profootballreference advanced defensive stats also shows that Shaq blitzed a lot more in 2019 (174) as opposed to 2020 (121) yet still managed to reach a similar amount of pressures in 2020 (42, received 54 in 2019). He also had 10 more QB hurries (24 instead of 14) in 2020. His sack totals (8 vs 19.5) and QB knockdowns (8 vs 16) were much less Maybe he was simply asked to do less? Pay the man.
March 11th, 2021 at 10:05 am
I voted no only because its not that simple. If it is cut and dry, either we have him or not, then yes I absolutely want him. He was my #1 priority. But if you are really asking him and lose out on many others due to him making top dollar then I say no. Lavonte chose not to make top dollar. Brady isnt making top dollar. Evans isnt making top dollar. Gronk and Suh most likely wont be making top dollar. JPP isnt making top dollar. If he wants to be a part of this, he needs to look around and realize so many of the top players are sacrificing a little to keep everyone and so far no one is complaining about the money. I still say give him 16-18 per year, but not 20+.
March 11th, 2021 at 10:59 am
NO. Godwin and LVD return, it’s highly unlikely. The money isn’t there. This Shaq bandwagon is terrible.
“We wouldn’t of won the Super Bowl without Shaq. “
What a f#cking disgrace to the GOATs number seven team. People are chumps. Let’s go out and pay younger Lenny top tier RB money for a “meh” season and blowing up in the playoffs. Licht and Bowels are great scouts and will be able to find a cheaper FA or rookie or both to fit the scheme.
Succop is next man up and he’s gonna get good kicker money.
March 11th, 2021 at 11:21 am
I look at it more from owners perspective do you want to pay david who has proven his level wont drop off after a big contract. Do you want to pay godwin who said he will be happy to go to war again if he gets franchised or are you comfortable signing someone who wants to take you to the bank.
Sometimes its not about x’s and o’s
March 11th, 2021 at 11:25 am
Another level of comfort is that David and godwin are also guys bucs drafted
March 11th, 2021 at 12:03 pm
I really dont understand the Shaq is “good not great” crowd.
If being the NFL sack leader year 1 as a full time starter then having a dominant post season and superbowl preformance in year 2 isnt elite then I dont know what is.