The Strawman Argument
November 30th, 2020
Ticked at Bucco Bruce Arians.
It seems former Bucs backup quarterback Dan Orlovsky has Bucs fans all worked up.
Orlovsky likes to holler (he really likes to holler) that most NFL coaches are worthless or just plain dumb. He got Bucs fans wound up last week about a lack of presnap motion from Bucs receivers under Bucco Bruce Arians.
The way Orlovsky was destroying Arians, Joe thought perhaps the Bucs had a garbage offense. So Joe did very quick research and found the Bucs are one of the highest-scoring teams in the NFL.
So what is Arians supposed to do? Have an offense that looks like a stunt on “Dancing with the Stars” or actually score points? Isn’t the goal of an offense to score points?
That’s like saying George Patton wasted his Third Army in Europe because his Sherman tanks were inferior to the German Panzer tanks. Yeah, but those Sherman tanks sure looked sweet rolling through the German countryside and barreling down the straßen of various German cities.
This morning, Orlovsky hollered about another subject. This time he was spot on, except for a teeny, tiny overlooked fact.
Orlovsky was outraged — it doesn’t take much to get him outraged — that Arians doesn’t have park-violating, home-invading, NFLPA-ignoring, down-forgetting, jet ski-losing, handshake-stiffing Bucs quarterback Tom Brady run more play-action passes.
Orlovsky is right. On the surface. Brady excels with this and those should be used more.
Now here comes the “but.”
Bbbuutt… thanks in part to an inept defensive gameplan that seemed like it was hatched by loser Lovie Smith, the Bucs trailed 17-0 in the first quarter, and later 27-10. There wasn’t enough time on the clock to use play-action and still mount a comeback. Play-action means you once in a while have to run the ball to make it effective.
Without the threat of a run — only Chargers coach Anthony Lynn would call runs when the clock is against him — play-action is neutered.
Orlovsky hollered (he does that a lot) that Pat Mahomes and the Chiefs were using a lot of play-action passes. Of course! The Chiefs had a lead!
Surely Orlovsky is aware of this. Joe hopes for his sake he is. Joe is guessing BSPN producers coached Orlovsky up to holler this with little to no context as BSPN too often gears its content to the dimmest of bulbs.
You can hear Orlovsky holler in this BSPN video below.
“Right now Bruce Arians is wasting Tom Brady. He got served on a silver platter the greatest quarterback to ever play, and all you had to do was use him the right way.”
—@danorlovsky7 pic.twitter.com/Puip7rvYDq
— Get Up (@GetUpESPN) November 30, 2020
November 30th, 2020 at 12:33 pm
no one hates the truth more than low standard bucfan living in denial…. let the Crucifixion of the messenger begin!!!!
November 30th, 2020 at 12:36 pm
With this guy the “sky” is the limit it seems.
November 30th, 2020 at 12:50 pm
The run game was neutered because the coaches CHOSE to neuter it. This notion that we couldn’t run the ball because we were down is ABSOLUTE bull sh!t. News flash, the game starts at 0-0 not 17-0. After the Chiefs first two drives they had 3 points. So we had two offensive possession to establish the run which was working on our first possession then the coach/qb CHOSE to throw a 50 yard pass on 2&6 instead of going with a RUN or high percentage pass play to set up a manageable 3rd or extend the drive.
Bottom line is it was another p!ss poor game plan and not understanding your opponent. The goal on offense should have been drives that last 10 plus plays not score as fast as you can and give the Chiefs the ball back. Even the best case scenario on a deep ball (a touchdown) plays into the chiefs hands because it puts their offense right back on the field. They had plenty of time and opportunity to establish the run early but CHOSE not to, which is what ultimately led to them being down 17.
November 30th, 2020 at 12:59 pm
the problem is not Orlvsky, the problem is who consumes it, same applies to Kellerman, Smith, and so on….. Tabloid kind of journalism….even more….polemic-based journalism…..
more important to fake a fight, and agrument than the information itself..
Kind of sad…..
November 30th, 2020 at 12:59 pm
i don’t understand why the d was so bad in the 1st q against kc, la and kc
November 30th, 2020 at 1:01 pm
I totally agree!
November 30th, 2020 at 1:02 pm
zzbuc
Don’t over think it. our team sucks the rest of the world knows this. now it’s time for you to accept it.
November 30th, 2020 at 1:07 pm
None of us are NFL players or Coordinators but I’m sure all of us knew going into this game what we needed to do to have a chance to win.
1) Keep The Chiefs offense off the field for as long as possible so long methodical drives were the key.
2) Defensively you’ve got to double Hill and not give him a free release off the line.
3) Double Kelce and no free release off the line.
4) Put a spy on the QB
Now none of that is easy but of those 4keys how many did we do?
November 30th, 2020 at 1:12 pm
Fairly spot-on observation.
November 30th, 2020 at 1:12 pm
We didn’t try to run on the first three 3rd & 3’s or so. Ungh.
November 30th, 2020 at 1:14 pm
Absolutely 100% agree with Dan, no risk it no biscuit is old hat and archaic with no real plan other than to throw the ball long downfield. How many times did they line up with 4 wide, no pre snap movement, just let the players head run up the field and leave Brady to get hammered. If we start off a game with yet another run straight up the middle for 3 yds, follow-up with a long failed pass attempt and failed 3 down, sound familiar ?.
Play for easy completions and try and get into a rythm, RoJo runs for 200 yds and then we keep him on the bench and in comes Fournette, the problem is we have too many mouths to feed and the coaches have no idea how to use them.
Byron as a head coaching candidate is an absolute joke, the guy has no resume and has not worked with his QB and taking account of his strengths, instead we stick our head in the sand and play “my way or the highway”.
I actually thought we would marry the two offensive philosophies but it’s the same as last year, must be all we know.
November 30th, 2020 at 1:19 pm
Uggg you fans are just driving me crazy. All day all i hear from every single fan is playcalling playcalling playcalling. This moron above said we are trying same thing over and over expecting different results. Hey, numbnuts we literally did just get different results in differnt halfs yesterday.
This playcalling thing is nothing but a trendy popphrase thats become the newest scapegoat. Its so annoying.
JP kudos to you at least for bringing up a specific series. But now you also gotta mention that the play was there on 2nd and six. Mike needs to catch that ball. Then on 3rd Evans runs the wrong route.
November 30th, 2020 at 1:21 pm
Orlovsky loves the sound of his own voice. To be fair at least this way he gets more airtime than he did during his playing days.
November 30th, 2020 at 1:22 pm
Sure. The Bucs painted themselves in the corner early. No question. When your defense is getting riddled and you are down three scores early, it kind of limits your options.
There are only so many possessions and snaps in a regulation game.
November 30th, 2020 at 1:22 pm
While I view our offense as predictable (Godwin goes in motion followed by a run up the middle) I do feel like it’s a player and execution thing more so than play calling. Although, I do wonder why on 3rd and 3 we decide to throw deep like they have multiple times this season. For example, on the first drive Brady drops a dime to Evans deep and it goes right through his hands. Brady’s 2nd int while he should’ve thrown it in the dirt Romo broke it down beautifully of how it was miscommunication between he and Evans and how Evans should’ve ran the route wide and sat in the window for Brady to throw the ball. I believe Brady got blitzed by the linebacker and he said Evans should’ve replaced the linebacker or somewhere along the lines of that. The first int was a terribly underthrown ball that kinda looked like Brady was throwing a jump ball to 5’8 Scotty Miller. The Brate pass to end the Rams game was a misread coverage. I think this is a player and execution/communication thing more so than play calling.
The solution to this is to play ground and pound and let Brady dissect them with the play action. I’m tired of them taking Rojo out of the game. He needs to be more involved the guy can BALL. Why can we notice this at home but the coaches can’t?
November 30th, 2020 at 1:34 pm
Tmaxcon…
Thx for your answer…
I don´t think our teams suck….I think our team is quite inconsistent…..and guess what? I am not surprised, that´s exactly what I was waiting for since the beginning of the season…..
Pretty simple a team that sucks is not 7/5….
Maybe you overthink a little bit Sir….
November 30th, 2020 at 1:35 pm
Jimmy Jack, I agree Evans needs to catch that ball. That wasn’t the point though, the point was that was a terrible call, not because it didn’t work but because of who we were playing. At the end of the day that pass is a low percentage pass and when it doesn’t work it puts you behind the sticks. Yes 3&6 is manageable and a bad route/throw ensued. I did mention it was 2&6, but in the end the goal should have been to keep Pat off the field. attempting and even completing deep shots is not how you do that especially against a team that can’t stop the run. And I’m not saying they shouldn’t have thrown deep at all, but the first priority should’ve been to establish the run and take the short stuff they give them go over the top. Just my opinion
November 30th, 2020 at 1:46 pm
JP i just cant agree with you on that play. We may just see the game different.
The playcall to Mike was good because it worked. We got a QB good enough to make the throw. A reciever who can catch it. We called the play it worked perfectly and the freaking guy drops it…….What playcall on earth work when your reciever drops the ball?
November 30th, 2020 at 1:50 pm
JP another thing is I agree establishing the run is a good plan. But i just dont know how you can establish the run when you cant get a first down.
Typically when you establish the run its on extended drives. Actually thats the only way right? I think our passing game sucks out loud right now and they gotta have an ability to get us 1st down so we can establish the run. I say the passing game is so bad right now they are hindering the run plays.
November 30th, 2020 at 1:55 pm
Dan’s right, and it just takes a look at the numbers that go beyond the stuff BA’s staff is talking about.
In the Bucs 5 losses, they’ve averaged 18.6 points. Compared to the rest of the league’s scoring avg’s for the season that would place them 2nd to last, just above the Jets.
The 5 Bucs losses (Aside from the Bears), have come to elite coaching staff’s in the NFL. The coaches that figured out the No Risk It scheme back in 2011. We trounce inferior teams with inferior coaches. When we play the best, our out dated schemes are exposed and our players are left to get trounced.
Motion is to expose the scheme of the defense, i,e, man vs. zone. This allows Brady to know what he’s throwing against before the snap, and make adjustments pre snap or in real time. To say that we shouldn’t be giving him this information with basic motion, is something an elite 2009 coaching staff might say – not the elite coaches and teams of 2020 do and say.
Establishing the run to make PA effective isn’t a legitimate argument.
https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/09/nfl-play-action-passing-stats-2019-cowboys-ravens-chiefs
https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/06/nfl-establish-the-run-play-action-pass-stats
if anything, there’s better evidence that PA helps set up the run game.
Everyone, including the Bucs staff can keep pretending that their gut (Based on outdated schemes and information) is going to get us to the Super Bowl, and the likes of Reid, Payton, McVay, Shannahan, etc. will keep easily making them all look foolish.
Watch what the best are doing and imitate. Continuing to run the same playbook from 20 years ago because it worked then, isn’t a smart or winning formula in today’s NFL.
November 30th, 2020 at 2:06 pm
the reason they down 17-0 was because they didn’t run the damn ball to start with
Bucs ran 57 offensive plays – Rojo carried for 10 & 80 yards and caught 1 pass for 37 yards and TD
1st Quarter: 4 runs 12 yards
2nd Quarter: 1 run 13 yds – 1 pass 37yds TD
3rd Quarter: 5 runs 45 yds – 1 pass incomplete
4th Quarter: Zip, Zero, Nada
November 30th, 2020 at 2:06 pm
Who cares about Dan Orlovsy!
November 30th, 2020 at 2:09 pm
It’s all on the coaching and right now they suck ass.
November 30th, 2020 at 2:19 pm
Agree with jp09… The reason it got ugly to begin with is because we kept trying to go bombs away and keep going 3 and out Nd putting the defense back out there. And then to turn around and say well we can’t run now.. after not trying earlier is something whee you just wanna slap someones face. Having. Said that… Even when you’re 17-0… When you have 3 quarters to play still you can definitely still run some, especially since heaving it is what got you there to begin with
November 30th, 2020 at 3:20 pm
Wasn’t this the same QB who stepped out of the end zone for the Lions because he was unaware of where he was on the field???
November 30th, 2020 at 9:26 pm
When we go 3 and out on our first three or four possessions because we’re trying for a long ball that isn’t there instead of establishing our run game, it’s easy for our opponents to go up three scores on us.
Rojo was running well in the first three or four possessions but only got one touch each. Add any two of his first four touches and you have more than ten yards and yet we go three and out the first four possessions?
What am I missing here?
November 30th, 2020 at 11:11 pm
RojoForever Says:
****Establishing the run to make PA effective isn’t a legitimate argument.
if anything, there’s better evidence that PA helps set up the run game.
When the defense fears one of those, it opens the other up. It works both ways.
Give up on one then the defense no longer has to respect it and can cover the other without a problem.
Give up on the run = less production on play-action, less production on play action leaves nothing but the long ball which = more interceptions.
No risquit-no bisquit doesn’t seem to work very well unless you establish a strong run game and keep it up!
December 1st, 2020 at 7:08 am
@gp except all of the statistics say that isn’t true. Play action just works. There is no dependency on run game success.
Fully agree that the Bucs need to run the ball much more. Just pointing out that every smart coaching staff in football knows what BA believes about PA isn’t factually true.
December 1st, 2020 at 10:47 am
former buccaneer orlovsky gets completely crazy on the air if he is intent on proving his take…
gotta love it
December 1st, 2020 at 1:57 pm
JP09: You are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! What’s the best defense against Mahomes and the Chiefs? A methodical, ball control offense.The game plan should’ve been, we need to have double digit play drives, by running the ball and throwing short to intermediate passes. Actually, to me, that’s the key to offensive success period…
The goal is to be in third and manageable. To often this season, we are way behind the sticks and it’s killing us.
After two Chief’s drives, we were only down 3 and despite the fact we’ve been terrible throwing deep, we keep doing it. It leads to long third downs and way too many three outs. you’re not helping your defense at all.
If they want to throw downfield, they have to establish the run. That opens up play action and play action sucks the linebackers in and brings the safeties up, leaving over the top opportunities. Teams have no fear of us being committed to the run, so the safeties just play deep and there’s nowhere to throw it…
COMMIT TO THE RUN! It will open up everything else you want to do…