Rising Defense
July 5th, 2020
Bucs DC Todd Bowles.
Now those who listen to the world-renowned “Ira Kaufman Podcast” know the two Joes have issues with the secondary, but with far different concerns.
On Joe believes the Bucs do not have a No. 1 cornerback and is still hurting from kicking a rock, peeved because the Bucs didn’t grab a veteran cornerback outside of re-signing Ryan Smith.
The other Joe is much more worried about safety and wants Team Glazer’s trusty accountants to work some voodoo to somehow squeeze disgruntled Jets safety Jamal Adams onto the roster. Adams has publicly admitted he’d love to reunite with his old head coach, current Bucs defensive coordinator Todd Bowles.
One reason Adams-loving Joe isn’t worried about the corners is the rookies made strides late in the season. Well, Lauren Phillips of BSPN served up stats to demonstrate the secondary indeed improved.
Last season, Tampa Bay allowed the fewest rushing yards of any NFL team but allowed the third-most passing yards. The Buccaneers’ defense is an ascending one, though; from Week 10 on last season, the unit allowed nearly 50 fewer passing yards per game and averaged an extra sack per game as well.
Of course, this does not factor the addition of second-round pick Antoine Winfield at safety, who Joe thinks will be a baller.
The riddle to all this improved secondary play is something that seems more than coincidence. Phillips pointed out that “from Week 10 on” the pass defense got so much better yet there was little uptick in the pass rush.
Well, remember that the Bucs ran off starting corner Vernon Hargreaves for serial loafing; he started the first nine games of the year. All of a sudden with Hargreaves off the roster, the pass defense improved just like that (Joe snaps his fingers)? Was it really that simple?
If so, that suggests Hargreaves should have been run off or benched much sooner.
So what took so long?
July 5th, 2020 at 1:06 am
By the predominant logic of the “in crowd”,
Since JW was #1 in Total offense and #2 in TD’s yet #1 in INT’s and by most accounts sucks and is not worthy of a starting gig,
It is completely fair and correct to say that the Bucs defense sucks and the coordinator also sucks, all should be fired and are really backup level players .
Let’s hear your arguments….
#1 running and third from last I. Passing defense=. TRASH
July 5th, 2020 at 11:26 am
Dude, he is gone. Let it go.
July 5th, 2020 at 11:28 am
So, let’s see…..the Joes are pining for a veteran CB,S, RB, Dline Depth & an upgrade at backup QB……
Not happening…..the acquisition of Gronk for a 4th round pick & $10 mil pretty much put an end to those wants…..
Let’s see if Gronk is worth it because I don’t think anyone desired or expected another TE.
July 5th, 2020 at 11:31 am
Clean House
Glad you asked. If you re read this story you will see that a major predicate to Joe’s confidence is the TREND LINE.
“ The Buccaneers’ defense is an ascending one, though; from Week 10 on last season, the unit allowed nearly 50 fewer passing yards per game and averaged an extra sack per game as well.”
JW however was descending and doing the same things he’s done for FIVE YEARS!! NO IMPROVEMENT!
He’s always been able to get yards with ME and his talented cast of targets and no restrictions on protecting the football.
In the critical final two games of the season…at home…his offense averaged 1.5 points in the second half. The D did their job…JW did not. Trend line pointing down.
IF we won those final two games to finish with a winning record is their any doubt who our QB would be this year? If we even won the last one to hit .500.
July 5th, 2020 at 11:34 am
Clean house,
From week 10 on they were ranked much better in the passing game. All rookie corners and one 2nd year corner. They will ball out under Bowles in his second season as DC
July 5th, 2020 at 11:39 am
The Bucs are heading in the right direction. There will be consistency on offence and a defence that will not have to deal with a short field to defend so many times. They were down 10-0 to Houston and had not even given up a 1st down. Interceptions were thrown in 4 games on the first pass of the game by Jameis, and another game an interception was thrown on the first drive. There was not much said about the discouragement that that caused the defence. It took a while for the defence to begin to understand how to play the defence that Todd Bowels coaches. Like it was stated, when Hargreaves was let go, the stats show they were a legit defence. Again they are on the right track. But the big unknown is how well they will play without actual practice time. BTW its good to have the GOAT hanging out in our front yard.
July 5th, 2020 at 11:54 am
Why did they wait so long????? They first had to prove it was the roster, not coaching that was the “real” problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Also, someone should look at that so called murders row of backup QB’s that they played!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And now it’s time for the much request “Realist Repost”!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
El Buco Realisto Says:
February 24th, 2020 at 8:23 am
and for those keeping score!!!!!!!!!!!
Loser Frazier 25.6 Points Allowed per Game (16 games)
Loser Lovie – 26.1 Points Allowed per Game (16 games)
Coach Smitty -24.97 Points Allowed Per Game ( 37 games)
mark duffner – 26.45 Points Allowed Per Game ( 11 games)
toilet bowles – 28.1 Points Allowed Per Game ( 16 games)
Pretty telling stats that the local media and sheep will never say or talk about !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sad how the local media and sheep fell hook, line, and sinker to the “all they need is to be coached up”!!!!!!!! even 813Buffoon now “REALIZES”!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2019 revealed answers to the sheep, that the “real” fans already knew!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
go bucs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
July 5th, 2020 at 1:35 pm
VHIII-JPP<JPP-VHIII
July 5th, 2020 at 1:40 pm
@ Realist
I was impressed by your positive post under the SMB article…..now that you’ve shown you have that in you…..i propose a truce (at least temporarily)…..I think the other readers would appreciate not having to read our back and fourth.
Even if you don’t agree….I plan to reduce my responses.
July 5th, 2020 at 1:42 pm
@Clean House
32 Professional Football Head Coaches and GMs decided he wasn’t a starting QB in the NFL.
Love to hear what you know that they don’t
All you have to do is move over to Saints dot com to follow your love
July 5th, 2020 at 1:44 pm
@TBBF…….I would rather read your comments in the ‘back and forth’
I started skipping over his posts 6 months ago
July 5th, 2020 at 1:52 pm
@SB
I appreciate that and It’s likely he will continue to “translate” my posts…..but it’s sort of starting to bore me….
Hope you’re enjoying the clean fresh air of Montana….where everyone is naturally distanced….
July 5th, 2020 at 1:56 pm
@Tampabaybucfan
Sure!!!! Unless the “real” fans and sheep disagree, and want to see us banter back and forth!!!!!!! Or if a third party arbiter such as Buc1987 says that we should continue!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think that you will agree to these “Temporary” terms!!!!!!!!!!
go bucs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
July 5th, 2020 at 2:00 pm
Gone from last year’s opening day starters are:
Demar Dotson
Jameis Winston
Vernon Hargreaves
and Andrew Adams, though still on team , will not start
In their place:
Triston Wirfs
Tom Brady
Jamel Dean/ Sean Murphy-Bunting
Antoine Winfield Jr
Add in Gronk and a year experience with this coaching staff = 5 more wins
July 5th, 2020 at 2:12 pm
St Pete hit the nail on the head. Defense ascending JW descending. Sure it gave up the booty for game winning drives for the other teams but if JW had been more protective of the ball this team with the defenses improvement should’ve went 10-6 but I’m glad it didn’t. JW had 5 years to improve and he didn’t in the 2nd most important areas, total turnovers because he got worse. We all had high hopes he’d finally be that franchise qb, he had most of the tools but lacks that mental acuity needed. So now we’re stuck with a 43 year old qb The GOAT who by all accounts and measures was better than JW and he had a somewhat off year, but yet the Pats went 12-4 and made the playoffs. I wish each fan up here would let that dude rest because he’s not here anymore. Bashing and loving him does no good up here
July 5th, 2020 at 2:54 pm
What took so long was that they invested heavily in VH3 with a high pick and the previous coaching staff that drafted him couldn’t get rid of him. BA had no incentive to keep the loser on the team. It’s hard to admit players don’t work out.
The whole problem is first rounders are largely first rounders based on their incoming class. If you have a horrible draft at a certain position, the good athletes get overvalued.
Case in point: 2015 QB draft.
July 5th, 2020 at 4:00 pm
Clean House = Ndog
July 5th, 2020 at 4:22 pm
@ Realist
Agreed
July 5th, 2020 at 4:30 pm
Starting to think so too Joe in Mich
Love to see when a troll has to change his name.
July 5th, 2020 at 4:56 pm
STPETEBUCSFAN
Agree with your post for most part.
If in 2020 season, IF after game 11 Tom loses ME13/Godwin and Gronk, is playing with broken thumb on throwing hand, and torn meniscus in knee, my guess is that the narrative from posters will be sympathetic. Fans got JW-fatigue after 5 losing years and 50% never wanted him in 2015. He did himself no favors w check your sheet comment and countless poor strategic moves from his “team”. So fans ignore the first 10 games in 2019 when our D laid an egg game after game while our offense was averaging 28 ppt/game. Dude is a now back-up and schadenfreude for those who wanted him out of Tampa.
We have Tom, the GOAT. 6 RINGS raises the bar for everyone on the team and healthy injection of hope. BA is over the moon with happiness, and media is Bucs-fixated.
Tom will be great, but I think this will be Tom’s offense, not BA’s, and if we are winning, who cares? On other hand, if BA calls lots of long developing plays, my confidence is low that Tom is on the field by mid-season.
For D, like Joe said last year, Improvement was a low bar based on how horrible the D had been for years. I get the 30 turnovers impacted the D. So I am cautiously optimistic that the upward trend for D will continue in 2020. if not, Tom should easily average 28ppts/game, right? 😉
July 5th, 2020 at 5:22 pm
SB: Right!
July 5th, 2020 at 5:47 pm
DAVIDBIGBUCSFAN99
“I wish everyone would let him go – loving him and bashing him does no good up here”
Agree!
For the record, I was pounding sand for Bucs to not tag Winston for 2019. Thought it was time for the break to happen, for best outcome for Bucs to start over and for JW to get a fresh start. 4 yrs was enough proof that the marriage was not a good fit. But, the Whisperer was going to fix him. First sign this experiment was going to end ugly? March 23 – JW asked to gain 20lbs for the BA offense. Are you freakin kidding me? This guy spent years trying to get lean And quicker. Only to be asked to gain 20 pounds of fat to be able to take more hits? What could go wrong?
Anyway, I bring up Winston in response to posters’ comments Maybe the haters need to acknowledge that Winston is renting space in their heads.
Brady is our QB now. We seem like a loaded team on O and D. Excited for this season to get started. 2 months to go.
July 5th, 2020 at 6:42 pm
BAREDZONE,
“March 23 – JW asked to gain 20lbs for the BA offense. Are you freakin kidding me? This guy spent years trying to get lean And quicker. Only to be asked to gain 20 pounds of fat to be able to take more hits? What could go wrong?”
You apparently missed the contradictory message between your own 1st and 3rd sentences. It’s understandable because this weight thing has been twisted into an excuse for the last few months.
You have added an element to this tale that I’ve not seen before. Adding “fat” is that an original contribution? Because that is in direct contradiction to winstons own words!
It’s strange that a group of winston fans continue to work so diligently to manufacture excuses an avg to below avg QB.
Your previous post says if after week 11 of the 2020 season if ME and Godwin go down to injury……….How is this not B.S! ME and Godwin didn’t miss the final 6 games ( 5 games depends if you’re using nfl week 11 or the bucs 11th game. I assume nfl week 11). The last 3 games winston posted 1000yds passing . This is record setting not excuse making territory.
As far as injuries, 1000 yds passing in the last 3 games doesn’t support any questions or concerns about injuries hindering his performance. The NFL is about performance, if injuries don’t limit performance it’s a non issue. If they do, either you sit on the bench and heal or you play thru it because not one player , coach or gm expects less from a player cleared to play. That is bottom line in the NFL. But it’s not for winston fan.
Note, Ive stated this many times in the past. I have issues with Winston’s adoring legion of liars and sycophants but few with winston himself.
July 5th, 2020 at 6:49 pm
I think #1 in the NFL in total offense, passing yards, and passing yards per game, and #2 in TDs is trending up. By matter of fact, actually those are improvements from his prior play.
Last two games he was injured with no receivers.
I recall TB12 last pass was a pick 6 in a loss to TEN
Trending down perhaps?
BS hasn’t been to playoffs in a while- trending down?
Bowles coached the Jets and they sucked after his first season, now 3rd from worst secondary,
Trending down?
It doesn’t feel very good fans, when someone constantly points out the negative and wipes away all obvious positives like #1 NFL rushing defense which could be seen as amazing and exciting- but by your own flawed logic irrelevant
Oh and 16 NFL teams who torched the secondary couldn’t be wrong- just like the 32 NFL coaches couldn’t be wrong about JW
July 5th, 2020 at 7:49 pm
Lol Ndog, er I meant Clean House.
In your boo’s last two games he threw for 3 TDs to 6 INTs with two of those picks going for six to the other team. SO He actually threw FIVE Tds to 6 INTs. Just Two were to the other team.
You have no business talking out the side of your neck the way you do.
You basically just admitted he is Nothing without CG and ME!
Derp!
July 5th, 2020 at 7:56 pm
So in his last two games as a Buc in a Contract year he finishes scoring 18 points and giving the other team 12 DIRECTLY on only two of his six picks.
First throw as a Buc was a pick six
Last throw as a Buc was a pick six
Sums it up I think.
July 5th, 2020 at 8:16 pm
CLEANHOUSE
In my last post, I said that after 4 years, it was clear the JW/Bucs marriage was not a good fit. Would have been in best interests for both parties to start over vs that 5th yr with the tag.
Your information and stats about JW trending up is 100% correct. And it is frustrating that all positive information is being swept under the rug while highlighting negatives. I would argue that Winston’s play masked a lot of Team deficiencies. JW could have miraculously led Bucs to playoffs or even SB last year, and the narrative would have been Bucs got there in spite of Winston.
Winston will get another day in the sun. As #1 pick drafted as QBs, Took Peyton and Elway 10+ yrs to get first SB. Teams with first picks are BAD! Winston will have a chance to resurrect under Sean P. Was fascinating watching an HBO special on Sean Payton’s week to week game planning strategy. In contrast, Bucs offensive play calling has generally been predictable to even novice fans.
I look forward to the season and will be watching if Winston gets an opportunity during season with Saints. Like Brady, Brees is older and one or two big hits from a concussion or injury. If Winston gets his chance, I will be cheering for him and believe will thrive in an offense with a running game and creativity.
The Bucs are loaded this year. No excuses!
July 5th, 2020 at 9:10 pm
BA Redzone with a knowledgeable, reasonable, acknowledging post!
Thank you for your sanity!
Go Bucs!
July 5th, 2020 at 9:52 pm
The defensive backfield really turned a corner in about game eight last season. The addition on Winfield and the possibility of disguising some formations will make then into at least a top ten backfield this season.
With the salary cap what it is (non-existent) there is no reason to drag in an expensive free agent. Doing that will diminish the offense and there is no reason to do that. It will happen soon enough as rookie contracts finish.
Let Brady have fun and blow the league away with the weapons he can manipulate. It should be better than yesterdays wimpy neighborhood fireworks.
July 6th, 2020 at 8:43 am
D1.
Wow, my post got your emotions rocking…legion of liars and sycophants???Harsh, dude! We’re all Bucs fans here talking about young millionaires.
Chill! Since I’m neither a liar or sycophant, I will address your concerns.
1. My first sentence was quoting another poster.
2. I meant “JW was ASKED/GUIDED” to gain 20 lbs; I inadvertently left out “asked” so the sentence read differently than my intent. A demerit for my error.
3. Regarding the comment about the weight gain being “fat”, advance degreed and credentialed S&C coaches can provide specific facts, but most people are shocked to learn how much time it takes to add Just 10 lbs of actual muscle weight (absent of steroids/etc). And forget the hype of those companies selling protein powders. So yeah, to add 20lbs of muscle weight in a few months? Not buying it and eyes don’t lie. Winston looked pudgy in mid section and not as quick in the pocket. Weight gain was mostly Water and fat lbs.
4. What do you expect Winston to say about his weight gain? The announcement that he was going to play at 250 pounds vs 231, as the heaviest QB in league raised eyebrows and resulted in lots of articles because it seemed absurd. No proof where his guidance to bulk up originated – his internal team or Bucs – and based on articles, the idea in adding armor was to protect against the added hits in BA system.
5. You are correct —- I mis-stated games missed by Godwin and ME13. Seemed like more. 2 demerits!
6. Wait – 1000 yards last 3 games? I can’t tell, is that good or bad? It is Winston we’re talking about, so there is a cloud somewhere in that stat. I’m will count on you to update liars and sycophants.
7. Winston never made excuses for his injuries. Neither did I. What I DID say, is that fans would be sympathetic towards Brady if he had those injuries at the end of season playing w/o his two best receivers. Quite different than making excuses.
Finally, sometimes agreeing to disagree is where we land. Resorting to name calling and insults – If that makes you feel better, glad I could help out. I am not of that ilk.
Have a great week, and go Bucs.
July 6th, 2020 at 10:56 am
The more important question is- Will Vea, Barrett and JPP all be ready to go for the start of the season? (If we even have a season)
Because without ALL of them, it won’t matter how good our secondary is…
July 6th, 2020 at 6:31 pm
The Bucs front 7 on D is scary good, mature and nasty and they will be ready to roll vs Saints and the season. Ironically, the sickness that limits practices in summer may help their bodies to be fresh for the season. D White improved every game last season and he will be the new leader and face of the D. First time I can say this in a long time – –Not worried about the D.