COVID-19 Talk With Ali Marpet
July 7th, 2020
Explains NFLPA input to Joe
When NFL players next play real football (whenever that may be), NFL fans will read or hear how players are lined up on the front lines, ready for combat.
This year, that’s not exactly hyperbole.
Once Bucs players report for training camp at One Buc Palace, currently scheduled for July 28, they will be on the front lines. Of a pandemic.
It is impossible to play games while practicing social distancing. And the NFL and the NFLPA are in frequent discussions on how best to proceed with camp and the regular season.
Joe spoke with left guard Ali Marpet, the Bucs’ NFLPA representative, to get insight into what’s going on. Marpet gave Joe a peek behind the curtain before a possible Tuesday statement by NFLPA executive director DeMaurice Smith with specifics about practice and game protocols.
“It definitely presents its challenges,” Marpet said of players trying to protect themselves in practice and games while the nation is gripped with this pandemic.
Marpet noted he is not in negotiation meetings between the NFL owners and NFLPA but he is briefed about the talks. In short, the NFLPA wants protocols that best keep players safe. One is teams cannot have 11-on-11 drills this summer.
When Joe asked Marpet if that would hurt the Bucs in preparation for the regular season, it all boils down to fairness, Marpet said.
“I think that if everyone is on the same playing field, everyone has to deal with the same challenges,” Marpet said.
Marpet said the reason the association would like to see 11-on-11 drills scaled back if not eliminated (this year) is to help players.
“All that we are suggesting is for the best interests in health and safety for the players,” Marpet said.
Per the CDC, the easiest way COVID-19 is spread is “through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs, sneezes, or talks.” Also per the CDC, people within six feet of another person pose a significant risk of transmission.
Marpet’s teammate, park-violating, home-invading quarterback Tom Brady, has caught a lot of flack for holding volunteer practices with a handful of his teammates, and for not heeding the advice of NFLPA medical representatives to stop. Marpet emphasized this was not an order to Brady or any NFL player, but a cautionary message.
“It’s not enforcement,” Marpet said. “Just advisory.” Marpet said that the NFLPA is not going to go after Brady for hosting the practices. Each player must decide whether to participate but all should understand the risks.
One way the NFL has proposed to limit exposure among players is face shields. The shields are very much like visors some players currently wear, only the shields would cover the full front of the face mask, leaving the sides fully open for ventilation.
“A lot of players have expressed concern about the ability to breathe,” Marpet said of the face shields.
The NFLPA has discussed with the NFL about scaling back preseason, Marpet said, and maybe eliminating all four preseason games. But that would just be for 2020, he added. Additionally, all sorts of protocols and practices are being discussed and debated, Marpet said, “I think they thought about every possible scenario.”
Joe also asked Marpet if the NFLPA thought perhaps the NFL was trying to jump-start training camp and the regular season too soon with Florida and other regions in the midst of a dramatic spike of virus cases in recent weeks. Marpet wasn’t ready to buy that.
“For any reason, if [NFLPA leadership] felt we have taken undo risk, I don’t think the NFLPA would recommend coming back,” Marpet said.
Marpet said it is very much on his mind that linemen seem to be candidates for more severe symptoms than other players because the COVID-19 is believed to affect bigger people more severely.
“My understanding is that being bigger, it does put us at more of a risk for symptoms,” Marpet said. “There definitely is a difference.”
Marpet added he’s been told players will be tested at least every three days and perhaps as often as daily. He said saliva tests are potentially in the works, adding that early information is the saliva tests are more accurate than nasal swabs.
July 7th, 2020 at 5:49 am
Three cheers for Joe on an article responsibly reported and three cheers for Ali Marpet for not trying to embellish or politicize a health concern that is being abused for political expediency.
July 7th, 2020 at 6:20 am
I’m beginning to believe that no matter what precautions the NFL puts in place that the sickness will still affect players…..hopefully, they will expand rosters…quarantine infected players and salvage the season.
Most every other business proceeds the same way.
July 7th, 2020 at 6:26 am
NOTHING CAN STOP THE “SICKNESS”……………………..nothing
July 7th, 2020 at 6:31 am
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
………………….as societies and the World realize this sobering fact…..life must go on
Humans accepts risks everyday; we accept:
* Driving cars
* Flying on planes
* Swimming
…………This list is endless………..and unfortunately, the “Sickness” will have to be put on this list too.
July 7th, 2020 at 6:34 am
@ TBF……….and rosters don’t have to be expanded because they already have the practice squad….
This can be a good thing because new stars can arise from all this mess…..
July 7th, 2020 at 7:11 am
Zzzzzzz grow some n…..
July 7th, 2020 at 7:17 am
@Anthem
We do have the PS…..but that may not be enough to cover players like the Kicker, Punter, Long Snapper & others…….I’d like to see an expanded PS and the game day eligible players expanded.
July 7th, 2020 at 8:05 am
Good luck Ali… amazing how little the deniers really know about this disease. But that doesn’t include Ali.
Yes…said a couple days ago on this site…bigger guys are more at risk.
What is unsaid is the long term side effect of this disease. It can affect the heart and the brain, including things like coordination. Not that those things are important to the well being and careers of these football players.
Hope we can have a season. But to compare it to swimming and such is just ludicrous.
July 7th, 2020 at 8:22 am
@ mark2001
Nobody is Denying there is problem…..cause there is; but Life must go on.
So what would you have everybody do? Stay sheltered and watch their Country’s economy destroyed by waiting????? There are millions of Americans right now struggling nad hurting due to losing their jobs because of what’s going on <—-and that is the part that alot people who want to stay shut down doesn't understand because it is not affecting them adversely.
….and I'm speaking from experience in my household and from my personal contact with doctors and health experts in the medical community.
None of them can really come out and say what they feel or else they'd lose their jobs due to the political climate today in America…….AND THAT'S A FACT.
You're not looking at the bigger picture of keeping a Country and Society functioning…………you need an economy functioning to keep a Country going.
………..and yes swimming is a risk. It happens all the time, healthy people drown unexpectedly due to unforeseen issues.
No country in the world can survive being shut down until an effective solution is found.
July 7th, 2020 at 8:45 am
I’m not as worried about the second half of the season as the first…unless of course we mismanage the start of the season and get too many infections.
They’re ready to release affordable ($15) quick (15 minutes) easy (saliva swab) tests. The NFL can literally test EVERY PLAYER AND COACH EVERYDAY at these prices and convenience. I haven’t read anything about accuracy.
Bottom line: IMHO we are learning stuff everyday, especially in terms of treatment with new drugs and steroids. Two companies announced last week that they are already testing vaccines in Covid ravaged Brazil. Things will get better!!!
The obvious question…how long will it take? Second wave hits in the fall. By November hopefully we’ve mastered at least managing this disease.
BTW speaking of managing it…can someone explain to me how masks became so political? Simple cost/risk/benefit analysis.
Cost – mild discomfort…Risk- DEATH…continued virus ravaging our neighbors.
July 7th, 2020 at 8:47 am
ANTHEM
A little tip. CAPPING “THAT’S A FACT” doesn’t make it a fact. I can’t say it’s a fact but I suspect very few people here believe your ‘FACT”.
July 7th, 2020 at 8:57 am
Frankly Anthem, I’m not suggesting shutting down businesses.
However, I’m all for pickups and deliveries…and wearing masks and social distancing. Just prudent.
And regarding swimming…it is a voluntary activity in most cases, and where it isn’t, I’d suggest the ability to swim saves a substantial number of lives.
I am not for bailing out businesses. I’m a free market capitalist…let the consumers decide. The government deciding who to bail out and why is socialism. Now if it is a business that we rely upon for National Defense production and such…that is different. But those are far between and few. You want to help consumers out because of job loss and such? That is the better place to help….but again, let them decide where to spend their money. Not some big government sugar for businesses picking winners and losers.
Why prop up 19th and 20th century business models that are slowly dying anyway by increasing the debt, and dropping 2 trillion monetary and 2 trillion fiscal stimulus? It just devalues the dollar, adds to future inflation, and adds to the debt and potential for a future depression.
July 7th, 2020 at 9:07 am
If you admit that you value money/jobs/the economy over the 100,000+ people that have died/will die…. maybe you deserve to be publicly shunned???
But “politics” right???? No you’re just a bad person.
July 7th, 2020 at 9:24 am
To choose between good health and opening up the economy is a false choice….we can, and are, doing both.
The problem is primarily with people not adhering to guidelines….and it is needed because of the asymptomatic carriers.
There are serious unintended consequences to shutting down.
While the NFL is not an essential business, one could argue that entertaining tens of millions of persons at home serves a good purpose.
The primary problem for the NFL compared to other businesses is the inability to social distance…..so testing is the key.
July 7th, 2020 at 9:30 am
Time for TckrDr and others who know what they are talking about to weigh in. In the meantime . . .
1. It is clear that the lethality of The Sickness has been way overestimated. The case numbers are exploding while the number of deaths is shrinking. WUWT?
Who ever saw a plague where more than half the victims never even knew they were affected? If a thousand people had heart attacks on one day we’d know about that. Wait, that’s already the case! Help us TckrDr, you’re our only hope!
2. It seems that herd immunity is coming faster than any vaccine. As the under-30 population gets more and more exposure the risk to the general population seems to decline.
As for long term issues, sounds like another thing that we just don’t know about yet. We have had doom and gloom virus porn for six months now. Clearly, we have learned much and will learn more. Have to recognize that we were ignorant and still are. Do the best we can with the light we have and work hard to getting better. But let’s not kid ourselves with happy unicorn farts or dismal end-of-the-world predictions
Global warming will kill us all anyway so why worry about a little virus?
July 7th, 2020 at 9:38 am
@ Etzel
Don’t try to turn this into:
* Shaming
* Trying to make someone look bad
* Trying to make someone look like they don’t care
It’s not about that…..and attacking someone personally doesn’t help either.
Look at the bigger picture here…..having an actual functioning society and that requires an Economy.
If people like mail carriers, restaurants, store workers, and so forth and so on accepts the risks…….then these NFL players are no different and shouldn’t be treated as such.
These players are getting paid millions to do a job that people dream about they shouldn’t act or be treated any different than John Q Smith who get’s up everyday and works at a store to make money to feed his family who gets paid significantly less and most likely will work more in his lifetime that the average career of a NFL player.
July 7th, 2020 at 9:39 am
Etzel if you drive a car to work or convenience you clearly value money or your convenience more than the 1.3 million people that die annually from auto accidents. Admit it!
There were 1.35 million road traffic deaths globally in 2016, with millions more sustaining serious injuries and living with long-term adverse health consequences. Globally, road traffic crashes are a leading cause of death among young people, and the main cause of death among those aged 15–29 years. Road traffic injuries are currently estimated to be the eigth leading cause of death across all age groups globally, and are predicted to become the seventh leading cause of death by 2030.
https://www.who.int/gho/road_safety/mortality/traffic_deaths_number/em/
July 7th, 2020 at 10:48 am
I’m taking my kid to Magic Kingdom next week!
Life goes on.
July 7th, 2020 at 10:59 am
Life goes on… Don’t live scared. Especially of a weak foe like Covid 19. The propaganda machine is misleading a lot of fine people and unnecessarily negatively impacting our society.
July 7th, 2020 at 11:11 am
BTW speaking of managing it…can someone explain to me how masks became so political? Simple cost/risk/benefit analysis….
Guys, we all know why it is political- -because the nation’s most influential politician, the Dear Leader, has made it so. Not wearing a mask in a mask factory has to illustrate the absurdity of the situation.
This bazaar sort of thinking is illustrated in Anthem’s comment where he compares 300+ players smashing face masks together to letter carriers.
Unbelievable!
July 7th, 2020 at 11:18 am
I have always thought Marpet was intelligent. He makes a great asset for the Bucs as the NFLPA rep.
The NFL needs to get those COVID fighting helmets onto the heads of players soon, so they have time to understand them. All sports are about technique and control and that can overcome a lot, like the new helmets limitations.
To me a mask is like a seat belt in a car , or knowing how to swim before jumping in the water. It is a way to mitigate risk, nothing more.
July 7th, 2020 at 11:40 am
mark & stpete
We have had our “thread” arguments in the past, a waste of time in my opinion.
I welcome a discussion with y’all but will not continue if comments go off the rails, ie. keep it civil.
I can’t speak for everybody but I think that there will be some agreement with my *opinions*
I can’t stress this enough, these are *my* *opinions* based on my observations of a multitude of sources not limited to news media and especially specific media groups.
To be sure, ‘The Rona’ is real, and a killer.
The arguments relate more to severity and reaction than to agreement, again, in my opinion.
Regarding ‘politicization’ of the Rona.
There are many among us who do not take well to manipulation and especially intimidation.
The news media, *the* major source of information for the average consumer, appears to be reporting numbers in a way that enforces the editorial opinions of the source.
In my opinion, these numbers are inaccurate and misleading for several reasons including but not limited to…
1) We are in the middle(?) of this situation and cannot determine ‘facts’ yet as they are still evolving
2) The numbers reported are not complete as in, one source may report new cases and their anticipation for increases or decreases in the future. Another source may report deaths. Another may concentrate on recoveries, and another may report on related illnesses possibly caused by…
I have not found a source yet which is reporting all, without inflection, to allow us to form our own opinions.
The political leanings of the many varied(?) news sources are fairly obvious and, in my opinion, lend to a strong political divide among people who would normally agree on most ‘everyday’ situations. Again, I don’t know anyone on either side of this political divide who like to be intimidated or manipulated.
3) “The Experts” seem to contradict themselves frequently. Don’t wear a mask changes to wear a mask. Studies which say a mask is ineffective -vs- studies saying they do help. ‘Hard surface/hand to face’ transmission most dangerous to ‘not a strong contributor’ to transmission. Those are just from Fauci, I hesitate to try to count the “experts” who are adding their ‘opinions’.
Regarding contributing factors.
Please don’t twist my statements here, I believe that all life is precious and any loss is tragic.
Many(not all) of the contributing factors to the morbidity of this virus are due to an unhealthy lifestyle. Obesity, diabetes, heart and pulmonary diseases are more often due to bad habits and lifestyle than genetic factors (not ignoring genetics)
For instance, there is a big difference between an obese person and an offensive(athletic) lineman carrying extra weight. Again, my opinion, not telling anyone what to do.
Comparison to the Flu
Both are a virus, both make you sick, both can kill “if” there are contributing factors.
From what I hear, the ‘Rona’ virus is more closely related to the cold virus than the typical ‘flu’ virus, thus it’s ‘upper respiratory’ nature
The average annual death count for the Flu can range from 40 to 80 thousand (in the US) per year.
The ‘Rona” is doubling that and then some (sorry, we’re not done yet)
Obviously, the ‘Rona” is more contagious than the typical flu (as is the common cold)
“Most” people who catch the flu do not go to the doctor or hospital and thus go uncounted.
Anyone with symptoms or even casual contact are being encouraged to be tested for the ‘Rona’, thus the higher numbers of ‘reported’ cases.
Herd immunity is a big factor in curbing Flu numbers
There is still debate on whether herd immunity will similarly affect ‘Rona’ numbers.
The argument regarding the number tabulation regarding deaths and actual cause of death as reported by the various care institutions may still be debatable. If there is truth to the rumors that there is a financial advantage to these institutions to include ‘Rona’ in the diagnosis, then those death numbers will forever have an asterisk next to them.
Regarding the “closure” of the country to “flatten” the curve.
At the moment of that decision, a large percentage of the populace agreed with it. Nobody wants to be sick and two weeks should not be a problem, Hey! Staycation!
After four weeks a few of us were beginning to smell a rat (our opinion that something was not right). All of those ‘indispensable’ occupations did not seem to be contributing greatly to the numbers. The ‘hotspots’ were accounting for almost all of the hospitalizations and deaths. The 98% of the rest of the US land mass was relatively untouched. (Has anybody noticed the large number of NY tags on the road here in Florida lately?) I know of very few people who think the shutdown was not an over reaction. After over three months, most are itching to get back to normal (as much as possible)
I reiterate, this is all nothing but opinion
I could write a thesis size paper on all of the contributing factors to our consternation with each other over this but I’m afraid that most on this site have already quit reading this post because of it’s length.
Hopefully, it helps the understanding.
July 7th, 2020 at 11:48 am
We shouldn’t be asking the store clerks and restaurant workers to risk their lives either. Also these jobs don’t involve frequently rubbing up against other men.
I’m sorry you’re upset that professional athletes make more money than you. But they are paid for their skills/talents that normal people don’t possess.
Sports is not essential. The NFL’s greed puts everyone at risk. STOP CHOOSING MONEY OVER PEOPLE. It’s the reason Florida is in such horrible shape.
July 7th, 2020 at 12:08 pm
Do you see the players discussing a strike and/or a walkout this fall? Of course not. Why? There’s a lot of cash they would leave on the table and never get back. A LOT.
July 7th, 2020 at 12:09 pm
@ Etzel
So do you live in a bubble…contact free and away from people and the earthly world environment????
Don’t you go to the store to feed and supply your household????
I’m thinking you have to have some kind of interaction with human persons to live????
July 7th, 2020 at 12:19 pm
Eating food = necessary
NFL Season = not necessary
Did I explain that simple enough for you, peabrain????
July 7th, 2020 at 12:20 pm
@ Joe
Yes, that money should be left on the table for the safety of people.
July 7th, 2020 at 12:24 pm
Anthem and GP
Agree and disagree with parts of your posts.
Let me just point out the place I totally agree. You both approached the debate civilly, respectfully you both have EARNED the respect of anybody reading your stuff whether we agree or disagree.
GP
IMO you are conflating your opinion/perspective with facts.
EG. While I agree opinions are changing as we learn more about this and indeed actual medical knowledge..FACTS…are also being learned daily which creates confusion. In addition the “numbers” being reported are FACTS as well as the cream of our society can figure. If you believe in some secret cabal out to manipulate the disease for….simply point out their motivation and how they developed a skill set that permitted them to create a conspiracy literally involving millions of participants. Where is the motivation?
We are on the way to a quarter million deaths which dwarfs annual flu so I’m not sure why there is even a comparison.
IF numbers are manipulated they are almost certainly low balled because of the Prez’s preference and DeSantis adulation of the Prez.
Meanwhile there is ONE fact that you either accept or not. I’m genuinely curious. The US is currently the world leader with twice as many cases as #2 Brazil.
Why are we worst in the world in our NUMBERS.*
*Google and you’ll see the worldmeter for covid. One of their hyperlinks takes you to “who they are” so you can either believe or deny their numbers. Classy, truthful organization never have a problem with this nor admitting errors when they make them.
The numbers are incredible…especially when broken down per capita. I’m an optimist so I believe we’ll recover both healthwise and economically…but not without a season of suffering first.
July 7th, 2020 at 12:25 pm
@Etzel The NFL’s greed puts everyone at risk.
Are you really comfortable with that statement?……I fail to see how that could be the case……the only at risk are those who participate in the games or practices in some way……all NFL employees…
Now, if fans are permitted…..the NFL is not putting them at risk…..they are putting themselves at risk…..it is an individual’s responsibility to take care of their own health….nobody is forcing them to attend.
July 7th, 2020 at 12:30 pm
The NFL is not proposing to play in a “bubble” like the NBA.
Therefore, you would have 53 men (probably more this season) flying to a city, rubbing up on each other, then flying back home…. You don’t see how this poses a problem for all people?? You don’t see how that would cause the virus to spread????
July 7th, 2020 at 12:33 pm
@ Etzel
You didn’t answer any of my questions and just made another insulting remark again.
Can you answer the questions please?
July 7th, 2020 at 12:33 pm
IF they have fans (which probably won’t happen), then what? They sign a waiver and everything is all good? What about all the people that they come in contact with after attending a game? Did those people sign a waiver too? You really aren’t thinking this through.
July 7th, 2020 at 12:35 pm
Your questions are stupid and portray a false equivalency between me going to the grocery store, and an entire NFL season taking place. I will not bless you with my response, dolt.
July 7th, 2020 at 12:37 pm
53 men travelling to a city, rubbing up on another 53 men… every week for 16 weeks… You don’t see how this would cause the spread of the virus???
July 7th, 2020 at 12:42 pm
None of you understand how 53 men on 32 teams, travelling for 16 weeks to each other’s city to play football would spread the virus??? Really?? I guess I can’t argue if you’re that much in the dark about what is going on.
July 7th, 2020 at 12:45 pm
BTW YMMV How’s that for some internet lingo….but….here is how I view Covid posts.
Some folks are bringing stuff they have read and freely share their source.
Some people are just spouting opinions.
You can choose to believe both or neither I always go with attribution so I can see where the info is coming from. If folks are just rendering opinions….if it pleases them then let them vent. But believe it? NAH
July 7th, 2020 at 12:47 pm
JoeBucsFan…where everyone goes for Covid information!
July 7th, 2020 at 12:50 pm
Remember, it is “the people” who are deciding whether or not to play for that money.
July 7th, 2020 at 12:51 pm
Durango 95:
Thanks man!
July 7th, 2020 at 1:03 pm
Lou…please do a little research. To have herd immunity of this virus would require about a 90% rate of infection. So there would be a great deal of sickness, death, and long term affliction far beyond what we have already seen…a catastrophe that could break our current HC system. And in that you must also consider that reinfection if the antibodies don’t last too long, might even make it more problematic.
And secondly the reason for fewer deaths is simple… younger people as a percentage of patients, and better protocols, and medical treatments…steroids and remdesivir among them.
Of course the later things require giving the medical community credit for their research and their treatments of patients. And that is why it is so difficult to nearly impossible for some to understand and admit.
July 7th, 2020 at 1:07 pm
@ Joe
I see what you mean, Joe. I do agree that the majority of players want to play, even if they are a bit reluctant (See Shaq Barrett’s response)
However, I feel it should not be up to them or the NFL owners on if the season will happen. It should be up to the public health officials/experts…
However… *motions towards White House*
Etzel, feel your passion, but these are massive decisions that spawn endless questions. It’s not as simple as you say. And experts on one day are too often idiots the next day — in many areas of life. Just off the top of Joe’s head …. How many millions of kids will be crammed into school buses in August and September. How did — and will — massive protests of all kinds affect the spread? How will kids learn to communicate and collaborate at school if they have to wear masks and sit 6 feet apart? Should youth sports shut down, too, indefinitely? No more pick-up basketball games across America? Should the government craft sex laws? Should convenient voting in person be abolished? –Joe
July 7th, 2020 at 1:35 pm
Etzel…I think the players and owners should be able to decide to play/have games or not, individually, with no penalty other than a loss of salary/revenue if the player or owner chooses not to this year. But I think most would want to play/have games.
But to me the issue is whether fans should be able to be in the stands. And in that regard, I do think public health officials should have some say, because 50 thousand fans packed together do pose a huge impact and risk upon their communities.
July 7th, 2020 at 2:07 pm
Voting, sex, school and protests are all more important than entertainment. I’m sure many here will disagree.
None of them involve necessary mass travel between cities (I guess depending on what you’re into). I just wish the NFL would follow the NBA’s lead and at least appear like they are trying to slow the spread of this BS. Seems like they assumed everything would be clear in the Fall
July 7th, 2020 at 2:17 pm
It doesn’t matter…….YOU CAN’T STOP THE SPREAD!!!!!!!!!!!
Let’s just stop all modes of transportation while we’re at it too????
Don’t you see how idiotic it is when people try to make arguments that one method is better than the other????
I don’t see people wiping off all the currency the use to pay with or keypads at stores or door handles.
………we can play this game all day long about what people think is the best prevention methods……. but the bottom-line here is that you cannot stop the spread.
LIFE MUST GO ON
July 7th, 2020 at 2:32 pm
You don’t see anyone wiping anything down because you live in Florida with all the other dirty inbreds that the rest of the country is ashamed of.
You cannot stop the spread…. BUT YOU SURE AS HELL CAN SLOW THE SPREAD.
ONCE AGAIN…
Daily transportation for citizens = Essential
is more importantl thanENTERTAINMENT.
July 7th, 2020 at 2:37 pm
“You can’t stop the spread, so let’s do nothing” who taught you how to use the internet?? I need to have a word with them
July 7th, 2020 at 2:39 pm
@mark2001 —
Your point seems obscure.
You say that I’m not giving credit to the health science community. Not true. I pointed out how much more we know now on account of their labors. Treatment protocols have improved. And how much we STILL don’t know, how much they remain ignorant of. Anyone who has dealt with science and experts knows that the whole purpose of the process is to work through areas that are unknown.
You also say that younger people who have less risk are getting the virus. That of course contradicts your first claim — if a lower risk population is showing higher infection rates then some of the outcomes are not due to treatment but to age distributions. And of course we were not testing the low risk community at first; perhaps the infection rate is a data blip caused more by wider testing and not by current dispersion patterns.
You talk about a “great deal of sickness, affliction and death”.
July 7th, 2020 at 2:48 pm
But the rate of death — and indeed serious illness — seems to be going down not up. As I pointed out originally, why are so many people unaware that they ever contracted the disease? It may be serious as a heart attack, but it is not similar to a heart attack.
Finally, you posit ~90% as herd immunity. That sounds on the high end, though measles is at 94% so maybe. Perhaps we will get there. Perhaps there will be a vaccine. Or perhaps the virus could die out, as some virulence markers indicate. All those are hypotheticals we as a society and a world will face in the future. But for now we have to make choices and societal decisions in the absence of knowledge and with the light that we have. As I said originally.
Might help if you focus on the statements made rather than assuming those who may not agree are lacking in the “little research” department.
July 7th, 2020 at 2:50 pm
So, after reading some well-thought arguments and debate, I reach this:
“JoeBucsFan…where everyone goes for Covid information!”
This had me rolling dude! I was all serious and getting my post ready in my head to join the serious debate at hand…..and voila! Needed that!
Thanks ’87!
July 7th, 2020 at 2:56 pm
@Etzel —
Not to horn in on an entertaining argument, but do you really care about “ spread” per se? The common cold might be spreading, too. The inbred crowd in Florida and Texas has done 18-20x as well on containing spread and fatality in at-risk populations.
Of course, the New York governor gets a home-crowd press. And the New York funeral business gets a boost, too. So the poor, ignorant Florida crowd just has to put up with more insults and fewer deaths.
We’ll take that trade.
July 7th, 2020 at 3:11 pm
stpete
*IMO you are conflating your opinion/perspective with facts.*
What Facts? You say the numbers are facts, and they very well may be, But there are also many questions of where and how these numbers are tabulated. Also, when only one group of numbers are reported while others are left out, the story is then skewed. For instance, with the rise in testing, there is a rise in positive tests. This makes perfect sense. However, with the rise in reported cases, the percentage of deaths is falling, dramatically. Yes, tragically, people are still dying at greater numbers than we would like to see. Perspective is important. You cannot have perspective if you don’t see all of the information.
As I posted before, the ‘facts’ are still evolving. We do not now know, and may never know, the truth of the matter.
Regarding a “cabal” or “conspiracy”, I don’t remember saying anything of the sort.
I guess for some, it’s ‘all about the money’, but quite a few have glommed onto it for purely political reasons.
I don’t want to count how many times I’ve heard something to the effect of “It will all get better in November”
And there’s no disguising the political leanings of various news sources. Wouldn’t you like to get the actual ‘facts’ and make up your own mind as opposed to getting ‘facts tainted by opinion’ that lead you specific point of view? It would be nice if we could get those untainted facts but alas, they are few and far between. I no longer watch network news and get most of my ‘information’ from print and radio. I find it easier to read between the lines without the verbal leering and inferences commonly found on the “idiot box”.
The only specific site I peruse is JBF, otherwise it’s random surfing without prejudice.
*Why are we worst in the world in our NUMBERS.*
If I can’t trust the numbers from local sources, how can you ask me to trust the rest of the world?
Trust me when I say, there are many throughout the world who would like nothing better than to see the USA fail. For some reason, they think we’re arrogant (can’t imagine why) and want to see us cut down to size.
But back to why we’re the worst? Many thanks to NY and NJ for leading the way.
July 7th, 2020 at 3:18 pm
#ItsAyeCovidLife
July 7th, 2020 at 3:18 pm
*We’ll take that trade.*
Thank Lou
July 7th, 2020 at 3:19 pm
Thank(S)
July 7th, 2020 at 3:20 pm
recirculated air on airplanes is an issue in itself with not 53, but more like 80-90 buccaneers on board…when it comes to players and staff…
#ItsAyeCovidLife
July 7th, 2020 at 3:25 pm
Anthem…I guess you haven’t been behind me. I have only used cash that I had before Covid, and use exact change. And when I use a card reader and have to push the buttons, I use a knuckle.. and have to sign, use disinfectant immediately. Just because you don’t see it, doesn’t mean that many of us don’t do those things.
And every day we can avoid getting it is a day closer to better treatments and hopefully a vaccine. And that is why when we get it is very important. I’m hoping if I do, the ICU’s will have room for me, we will have multiple drugs to slow down or mitigate the infection or possible prevent it.
That God we as a nation didn’t just say, have your way Polio..or TB… or the measles, or the Spanish flu. We knew better. What madness has gripped our nation?
July 7th, 2020 at 3:34 pm
Lou…let me follow the straight line. Infection rates can rise..which they do…but mortality rates decrease because that number of infected is make up of younger people, which are stronger and better able in general to keep from dying from the virus. And coupled with the better treatments, the overall mortality rates fall even though the virus rate increases. No inconsistency.
Further…do you have any idea what this is costing us as a nation? What it is costing our nation and insurance companies? 2 trillion fiscal aid…2 trillion monetary aid…$200 billion US hospitals…business. It has been a human and financial disaster. And we aren’t even through the first wave.
July 7th, 2020 at 3:38 pm
The war rages on…
July 7th, 2020 at 3:46 pm
You guys do know athletes don’t have to die to have this disease destroy their careers. If it damages their heart or circulatory system it can ruin them. If it affects their lungs or brain in a way that it affects their coordination, it can ruin them. There are records of individuals being affected those ways, yet still surviving. At that point, they are little better as athletes than the rest of us..there careers forever ruined. Do you blame them for being cautious?
July 7th, 2020 at 3:48 pm
their careers. correction.
July 7th, 2020 at 3:56 pm
@ mark2001
You are in the minority and not the majority.
NFL Players shouldn’t be treated differently than the common man or woman who put’s themselves at risk daily while doing their jobs.
…..this is all I’m saying.
Imagine everyone in the US tried to wipe everything down they touch in an average day……..it’s impossible and the US would run out of disinfectants/cleaners in 2.5 HOURS!!!!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!
JK…..I dunno how long the US would run out but it would be incredibly quick!!!!!!!!!!!!!
While it is a genuine and honorably idea to try to minimize……it’s just simply impossible because you’re only slowing down the inevitable spread of the virus.
July 7th, 2020 at 4:02 pm
Imagine everyone in the US tried to wipe everything down they touch in an average day
Whenever Joe leaves the house, whatever place he goes to the first thing Joe does is wipe everything down in the interior of his truck with disinfectant wipes when he leaves to go back home. Steering wheel, interior door handle, shift handle, knobs on console. Then when get home, go straight to the sink to wash hands.
July 7th, 2020 at 4:40 pm
A little ad for the blood bank, hope you don’t mind Joe.
If you go and donate blood(only if currently healthy) they will test your blood for antibodies. I am a regular donor but cannot at this time due to some recent dental work. My son, however, has recently donated and has the antibodies.
There is a strong possibility that he, his household, my other son and his household have all been exposed as a result of a trip to California at the end of September last year. We all had a very bad upper respiratory cold about 2 weeks after returning. It was rough, but to our knowledge then, just a cold.
July 7th, 2020 at 6:11 pm
Anthem…and I’m saying that until we have more and better treatments, open ICU beds, and/or a vaccine, I’d rather wait to get it. And then take my chances after many more months of studying and finding ways to deal with the virus. And frankly, even now we are better regarding treatment than those poor folks in NY that got their cases from the first visitors from Europe. Wouldn’t you prefer that?
July 7th, 2020 at 6:13 pm
Congratulations Joe! You finally had a thread that opened up this topic and even participated- -good for you.
Anthem, I’ll try to put it in different terms so you may be able to get it: No, you don’t have to disinfect everything that you touch- -but if someone is handling money that is exchanging hands with who knows who then you should wash your hands after. IF you had a ten-spot in your wallet for a week then it likely is OK. Tests have shown that it only lasts for a day or so on cardboard (paper). That makes sense since it’s a virus that thrives in the lungs. Paper absorbs the moisture and the virus eventually dies when dried out. (Disclosure: MY OPINION)
Some of you (and Joe) expressed frustration over the inconsistencies of the no-mask to yes-mask or other newer comments made by Fauci. May I remind you it is called a “Novel” corona virus. You know, like the Bucs have a NOVEL highly qualified QB for once. New stuff is coming out every day plus it could be evolving as we speak
The net-net of all this is that the virus, due to the desire to open up full bore and save the economy and the reelection chances of the guy who has us in such deep water, is out and about. You guys in Florida have it about as bad as it gets right now. (Thank your Governor) However, 44 states also have increases (including the Free State of Oregon).
I predict we are going have to go through another shut-down to stop the increase. Once the hospitals are full watch your death rates skyrocket. Florida
has currently 1214 ICU beds available in the state while you had 7,347 NEW cases yesterday. How long before you run out? Houston area has already.
Hunker down and wait for the vaccine or sure fire treatments. Football in these conditions is ridiculous and won’t work for a host of reasons.
July 7th, 2020 at 7:01 pm
Your son and his family got it 3 months before it started in Wuhan? The 1st case in US of local transmission was in late February ‘20. So in less they time traveling to Cal. into the future I don’t think thats correct. Why does everyone who has had a upper respiratory infection over the last year think they’ve had it?
July 7th, 2020 at 7:07 pm
Jeez Joe if just keep a small bottle of hand sanitizer w/ you, you could save yourself a lot of work. Either use it just before getting in the vehicle OR use it just after getting in your vehicle before you touch anything. It’s fool proof and it will keep you from having to do a full car detail just to go down to the Publix. 🙂
July 7th, 2020 at 7:10 pm
Can’t we all just get along (6 feet apart)?
July 7th, 2020 at 7:13 pm
Had the antibodies test done by the blood bank after giving blood a few weeks ago. Unfortunately, I had none. Fresh out. My blood is in high demand for those suffering from Sickle Cell disease. So, I was hoping I was positive for C19 antibodies as well. Not to be.
July 7th, 2020 at 7:15 pm
Stanglassman
We started “hearing” about it in November
China didn’t admit that they had a problem till December(remember Trump wanted to block flights from China and was called a racist?). Yet another example of how the ‘narrative’ is controlled.
July 7th, 2020 at 8:13 pm
@gp: nice long post. Kudos.
A couple of “facts”:
1) You cannot compare flu #’s with CV19 #’s because flu numbers are not counted with paranoia. The vast, vast majority of even bad flu cases go unreported and untested, so we have NO credible basis for even an estimate beyond the “expert’s” WAG’S.
2) You cannot compare flu deaths to CV19 deaths. We KNOW how inflated the CV19 deaths with CV19 are: even if you die from something non-CV19 related but have the virus or antibodies, you get counted as CV19. This is NOT the case with the flu. My 92y.o. mom got the flu in late January down here, spent over a month in the hospital with severe pneumonia, and finally died after a brief rebound. Her death certificate does not read “flu.” It reads pulmonary edema/pneumonia. This is how flu deaths get recorded. Fact is we have NO IDEA how many die of/with the flu except for specific flu strains (Asian, Bird, Swine. etc.) Nothing for seasonal flu. We just consider it a fact of living.
3) I keep asking the lovers of Covid fear porn to define “cases,” and not one has responded, even in long-winded explanations. We hear cases are “exploding.” But the FACT is, they are now counting as “cases” 1) positive tests (which have a HUGE false-positive test error ratio), 2) tests that come back antibody-positive (meaning that may have had it in the past but not currently, or that they had some strain of coronavirus, maybe a common cold, in the past that created the antibodies, and…here is the BIG number creator, 3) a “probable” positive test, i.e., a “tracer” says you came in contact with someone who tested positive, whether that person was symptomatic or not. I personally know two people in this category. One of them is one of 23 why had been in contact with a “positive,” one who is among 16 who was in contact with a positive. And of these 39 people making up the recent FL numbers for “cases,” not one of them has exhibited any symptoms whatsoever.
FACT: the “new” guidelines include as “cases” those who came into contact with one who tested positive, not just people who test positive.
The current “explosion” in cases is primarily due to two factors:
1) Increased testing, and
2) The new definition of “cases” that goes well beyond just those who test positive in a lab test.
July 7th, 2020 at 8:16 pm
@bucsfaninoregoe: the “increase” in cases is mainly due to the redefinition as to what constitutes a “case.”
I have asked you to define it repeatedly, and you repeatedly seem to avoid the challenge.
July 7th, 2020 at 8:28 pm
Lou
You’re obviously not a big student of history. When has a plague ever had so many people who don’t even get sick or display symptoms?
Have you ever heard of “Typhoid Mary”? Are you aware she was a real person?
Mary Mallon (September 23, 1869 – November 11, 1938), also known as Typhoid Mary, was an Irish-born cook believed to have infected 53 people, three of whom died, with typhoid fever, and the first person in the United States identified as an asymptomatic carrier of the disease.
Typhoid Mary was medically historic because we learned about asymptomatic patients who while not suffering themselves still infected others
Now for the anti maskers. We are worst in the world when it comes to our results in our response to this disease. Why? If ONE woman infected 53 people killing three do we think our young folks going to “Covid Parties” might be lethal to their older relatives and young friends with underlying conditions like diabetes?
July 7th, 2020 at 8:41 pm
Let’s look at Florida’s data to put this in perspective. First, 85% of fatalities attributed to this virus are for people 65 and older; change the cutoff to 45 and older raises that percentage to 98%. Younger people, like NFL players, are recovering although the virus is still a horrible thing to get for anyone. All total, there have been 100 Floridians 44 and younger dying – not a large number, but every life is precious. As for serious career-ending effects, the data available does not tell us that, but we can see that, for people 25-34 years old hospitalizations as a percent of that age group testing positive is low at 2.3%, which suggests that NFL players would come out from the virus intact.
July 7th, 2020 at 8:48 pm
@Lou. :
Thank you very much for the shout out!
In my experience, when large sums of money are involved, integrity goes out the window. And when large sums of money, as well as significant power are involved, it seems that folks will not only lie, but even allow people to be killed just to feed their greed for money and power. Interpretation of the “science” that is being reported at that point is certainly problematic.
tickrdr
BTW: According to stats from Tampa International Airport, during the month of May, 2020; there were 2084 planes landed with 115,371 passengers. That is despite the total number of flights being markedly reduced due to the pandemic.
So, even with expanded rosters, ancillary personnel, numerous coaches etc., it doesn’t seem an extra 200 passengers a week would significantly impact viral spread. Thank God no one is arriving in Florida via car or truck, amirite?
July 7th, 2020 at 9:01 pm
tickrdr
Especially with NY or NJ tags
July 7th, 2020 at 10:40 pm
gp
You’re waay behind the time. NY and NJ would be fine. Texas, AZ and Fl…oh wait we live in FL.
July 7th, 2020 at 10:44 pm
GP- You are not living in this reality. The first case in the US was in February of this year. It started in China in December of ‘19. If you are saying China hid it for a month and it really started late November I would agree that it’s possible. However, if you are saying it’s been all over the world 3-4 months prior to that. I’m sorry but that’s just crazy talk. If you think that the response has been anything but incompetent and anemic you’re living in crazy town too. It’s not a coincidence that the only countries who can’t get this under control are Russia, Brazil and Trump’s US. What do they all have in common?
July 7th, 2020 at 10:44 pm
Cobra
Your second point is erroneous about people dying “with” Covid and not because of it. Deaths are most surely UNDERreported not overreported because of all the elderly who simply pass without ever getting tested and there is no autopsy.
Most experts believe the death toll is actually low.
July 7th, 2020 at 11:21 pm
I guess it all depends upon where you get your facts
Fun discussion all.
See you tomorrow
July 8th, 2020 at 2:04 pm
stpetebucsfan Says:
Complete baloney, spbf. I have deeply kept up with this virus as an adjunct to interest in viral transmission with HIV/AIDS that I was involved in professionally. I understand this virus better than 90% of humans, and 100% more than sheep who swallow what the MSM tells you to swallow.
“Experts” have been CONSISTENTLY incorrect, yet some still worship at their altar.
No, the CV19 death count is NOT undercounted. In fact, exactly the opposite. And even then the death count is used as fear porn, when demographics prove anyone under, say, 60 should have no worries, and anyone over 60 with no significant chronic maladies should NOT be afraid.
No one is telling you to not be mortally afraid. Just don’t tell thinking, rational people with well-honed critical thinking skills to share your fear.
BTW: an autopsy is not necessary to determine CV19 deaths according to “experts.” Testing on the dead is simple, and even the CDC has stated that if the physician even *suspects* CV19 was a factor, CV19 goes on the death certificate and NO TEST is even necessary.
I don’t know where you get your info, but you should ask for a refund.
July 8th, 2020 at 2:06 pm
Imagine a virus so deadly you have to be tested to see if you even have it…
July 8th, 2020 at 2:25 pm
I doubt that anyone is still on this thread but feel the need to respond anyway
The scientific process involves observation, inference, measurement, theorizing(hypothesis), and testing for proof. I probably left something out but I’d like to speak to these.
In reference to the ‘Rona’ we have observations, inference, and theorizing out the wazzoo. Measurement is still ongoing so the theorizing is premature and testing to proof may be years down the road if ever, considering the questionable measurements.
Some of *my* observations(opinionated to be sure)
Many, a sadly unmeasurable number, do not have any outward symptoms of exposure.
Of those who show symptoms, the vast majority are not severe.
Patients with underlying conditions such as obesity, pulmonary problems, heart disease, and diabetes, represent the worst cases/death count.
I noted obesity first because there is a strong link(yes there are exceptions) between obesity and all of the others.
China does not have a major problem, to the best of my knowledge, with obesity but they are(reportedly) heavy smokers.
Side note: The Chinese government is averse to admitting to any shortcoming(as are we all) and seems to have missed the origination of this situation. In their defense, the mild symptoms in the majority of cases and the tendency to affect those with (already) life threatening conditions disguised the contributing factor of the ‘Rona’. (Personally stress “contributing factor”)
With that said, it is my opinion that this actually started last summer in China, not December as our media want us to believe.
Inference:
While a mostly mild affliction, the ‘Rona’ can be a contributing factor in fatality for cases with underlying factors(noted above) and may expose underlying issues or impairments in those who are unaware of them. This can be said for just about any virus, especially those that affect the upper respiratory system.
Yes, it is dangerous and a killer, but most will not experience life threatening issues.
Measurement:
Sadly, there are too many variables here and much of the ‘reporting’ of the numbers has been politicized to an extent that the numbers are not usable in a scientific way. This ‘politicization’ started with China and has only gotten worse with our own media sensationalizing the issue.
Theorizing(hypothesis): Not yet possible. Observational data and measurable data do not match and may be polluted.
Test for proof: Of what? without hypothesis, theory, or clean accurate measurements, we’re not to this point yet.
To those who profess to have scientific facts about all of this… I suggest that you do not understand what a fact actually is, or are freely willing to repeat what others say as long as it fits your ‘narrative’.
July 8th, 2020 at 3:55 pm
“ 1. It is clear that the lethality of The Sickness has been way overestimated. The case numbers are exploding while the number of deaths is shrinking. WUWT?”
Well, that’s because deaths lag cases by 4 – 6 weeks.
Not that complicated.