A Haul Of An Offseason
July 31st, 2020
Winning the offseason.
Joe isn’t sure if the early days of what is called “training camp” this year is considered the offseason, but for argument sake, Joe will call it that.
Has there been a better offseason from a general manager than what Bucs AC/DC-loving general manager Jason Licht pulled off? Yeah, it’s dangerous to win the offseason, but let’s look at moves Licht had:
1. Signed six-time Super Bowl winner Tom Brady.
2. Traded for future Hall of Fame tight end Rob Gronkowski.
3. Traded up in the first round to maybe grab the best tackle in the draft, Tristan Wirfs.
4. Drafted a baller of a safety with NFL bloodlines, Antoine Winfield.
5. Signed future Hall of Fame running back LeSean “Shady” McCoy.
Now that’s pretty damn impressive. In the past, some fans have griped that Licht sat on his hands too much, at least in respect to a position or two.
Not this offseason.
Joe is confident readers will come up with perhaps better examples from other teams, but Joe cannot think of a better offseason a general manager has had in recent years bagging three future Hall of Famers on one side of the ball.
The only team that can approach this sort of a haul, Joe believes, was the 2000 Redskins when they signed Bruce Smith and Deion Sanders and drafted LaVar Arrington and Chris Samuel. Of course, that Redskins team demonstrated the perils of winning the offseason with a few splashes. Despite that fabulous offseason by Redskins shot-caller Vinny Cerrato, the Redskins finished 8-8 and in third place in the NFC East, missing the playoffs. And Joe will tip a cap to the 2012 Colts and GM Ryan Grigson for all the future Pro Bowlers he added.
Forget that noise right now. Joe is just wallowing in the joy of the Bucs seemingly solving the weakest link of the team yesterday.
July 31st, 2020 at 5:35 am
Damn good article and even better moves by Licht. Even if McCoy doesn’t work out, at least he is trying, which is all that I ask. Throw enough darts at the running back position and you are bound to get a threat at some point.
July 31st, 2020 at 5:39 am
It was a nice draft by licht. But I think arians deserves all the credit for Brady, who brought with him gronk and shady. Not really sure what licht does anymore and our team is better for it.
July 31st, 2020 at 5:47 am
Sanders feet/toe were bad at that point in his career and bruce smith was only playing to break the sack record. Anyone who thought that team was superbowl ready or even tennessee ready were only fooling themselves. And no, this is not revisionist history. Those moves were questioned by a lot of people at the time. Hopefully the bucs do not suffer the same fate.
July 31st, 2020 at 5:53 am
I think the Bucs will be sitting pretty come January
July 31st, 2020 at 6:20 am
Definitely Licht’s best season. Hiring BA last year was the second best moves to replacing Jameis with Brady.
July 31st, 2020 at 6:25 am
I’m very pleased as a Bucs fan with the offseason changes, the biggest one of course being moving on from a millstone at QB. We have the game’s “best” in some key positions now (QB, RB, WR, TE, DT, LB) to make winning now more possible, while they mentor up-and-coming players. I still give Licht an overall “C” because of Winston and Aguayo (he earned an “F” on those only because they don’t give out a “G.” Without those two, he’d be a more solid B+ or A-.
July 31st, 2020 at 6:28 am
Good stuff, Joe. Also add he brought back some key guys, like JPP, Suh, and Shaq. Would have been nice to lock up Godwin but Fort Knox was running low.
July 31st, 2020 at 6:41 am
Roy, let’s give Licht a pass on Winston, he had to draft a QB, the other choice was Mariota, and he didn’t work out so well for Tennessee. Now, Aguayo, on the other hand…
July 31st, 2020 at 6:52 am
Agreed, Licht shined bright during a time of darkness.
July 31st, 2020 at 7:00 am
Agree with Roy…..you simply can’t overlook the retention of Shaq, JPP & Suh…..that too, is part of the off-season.
July 31st, 2020 at 7:04 am
Arians has turn Light into the GM we like!
Go Bucs!!!
July 31st, 2020 at 7:42 am
Another good and recent move was signing LeSean McCoy.
The Bucs actually saved money by cutting TE Jordan Legget, who would have made $825,000 this season and then signing LeSean McCoy. McCoy signed for the league minimum at 1.05 million but with the veteran exemption, he only counts $750,000 towards the cap, saving the Bucs $75,000.
July 31st, 2020 at 7:50 am
1. Signed six-time Super Bowl winner Tom Brady. Got unbelievably older and have ZERO FUTURE.
2. Traded for future Hall of Fame tight end Rob Gronkowski. Got older and WAAAAAY more tread on the tires.
3. Traded up in the first round to maybe grab the best tackle in the draft, Tristan Wirfs. What took so freaking long.
4. Drafted a baller of a safety with NFL bloodlines, Antoine Winfield. Love the kid HATE the injury history
5. Signed future Hall of Fame running back LeSean “Shady” McCoy. Got older and will hurt young backs in the roster
July 31st, 2020 at 7:54 am
Alan, I think expectations were for Licht to draft a QB, and I’m not saying Mariota was any better. In fact, they wanted more local guy fans would get behind…who better than the FSU QB. Problem was they talked themselves into a bad decision, and should have seen the writing on the wall for on-field and off-field disasters. Every fear about Winston came true. And then they stayed with him, year after year. Licht doesn’t get all the blame, but he sure shouldn’t get a pass in my opinion. Certainly don’t waste a first overall becuause that’s all that’s there.
July 31st, 2020 at 7:55 am
So let me get this straight just NOW we need an all around including blocking TE, just NOW we need a veteran RB, just NOW do we need a stud RT, just NOW do we need to try to replace the always injured Justin Evans.
July 31st, 2020 at 8:01 am
Roy T. Buford Says:
July 31st, 2020 at 7:54 am
Alan, I think expectations were for Licht to draft a QB, and I’m not saying Mariota was any better. In fact, they wanted more local guy fans would get behind…who better than the FSU QB. Problem was they talked themselves into a bad decision, and should have seen the writing on the wall for on-field and off-field disasters. Every fear about Winston came true. And then they stayed with him, year after year. Licht doesn’t get all the blame, but he sure shouldn’t get a pass in my opinion. Certainly don’t waste a first overall becuause that’s all that’s there.
Licht does get all the blame for failing a once in a lifetime QB talent by doing NOTHING on defense, the run game and kicking game for 5 YEARS!!!!!!!
I love the revisionst history on this board. Apparently everyone has forgotten this defense for the last 5+ years up until they shut down the immortal David Blough and Gardner Minshew. You people will talk yourselves into believing anything.
July 31st, 2020 at 8:03 am
How many kickers in 5 years, really how many? Brady has had 2 for 95% of his 20 year career while Jameis had what 5 in his 5 year career!!!!
July 31st, 2020 at 8:03 am
How does Licht get to B+ or A from a C (IMO)? This next offseason, gotta draft a QB…not saying first round…but must do it for Brady to mentor him. May need to draft an LT for O line or an edge rusher. However, hopefully they will be drafting low. So he should go with best player in those three positions and grab him, at what is hopefully the 32nd overall pick if you know what I mean. Must lock in Godwin long term, Shaq if he proves worth it this year. Here’s a wrinkle to think about. Trade away a guy like ME13 for a slew of draft picks to get an extra 1st round pick and maybe a 3rd round to further beef up the build. ME13 is awesome, but I don’t think there is room for both he and Godwin from a $$$ standpoint or enough reps (stud WRs ALL, want, deserve, and EXPECT the football).
July 31st, 2020 at 8:07 am
Ndog, really now. You have it backwards I think. I’d actually say NE Pats kickers had only one QB. The Bucs had the wrong QB for five years!
July 31st, 2020 at 8:12 am
Ndog says: “I love the revisionst history on this board. Apparently everyone has forgotten this defense for the last 5+ years….”
The D stunk, I’ll give you that. But Ndog, despite your unwavering devotion to him, you yourself have admitted many times that Winston constantly put his D in a bad position by having them have to trot onto the field in their own territory to pick up the slack for Winston’s multiple bad decisions that led to INTs.
July 31st, 2020 at 8:14 am
Ndog, I have always respected you for your passion about Winston. However, Winston is gone (unless you are him) and maybe it’s time for you to stop trashing the Bucs and move on to the saints. Licht has had a pretty good couple of years in my opinion.
July 31st, 2020 at 8:14 am
Bit surprised we’re still talking about the 57th highest paid QB in the NFL…
July 31st, 2020 at 8:18 am
N dog……….. We get it JW was done wrong, everything is terrible for the next decade, thanks Chicken little we got it.
July 31st, 2020 at 8:23 am
You guys can say whatever you want but this defense lost us WAAAAAAAAY more games in the last 5 years than any other part of the team and then right behind them is the lack of kicking game, then after both of those is the TOs.
July 31st, 2020 at 8:38 am
Ndog, you are right.
The defense and the kicking game lost us games.
So too did Winston.
They have since all been replaced.
Its just business.
July 31st, 2020 at 9:27 am
The bucs don’t win during the regular season, so why not the offseason, where it actually matters.
July 31st, 2020 at 9:38 am
Don’t know if Joe should laugh or cry.
July 31st, 2020 at 10:00 am
Mike who cares about how much a guy makes, was Mahomes getting paid really well last year compared to his peers, for his first 3 year was Brady getting paid well compared to his peers?
You people have to understand Jameis is 26 years old, most QBs don’t hit their prime years till they are in their early 30’s. So by the time a guy that has ALREADY thrown for 5,000 and holds several passing records for a player of his age is hitting his prime we are going to have NOTHING. No QB, no head coach, no TE, no LT, #2 pass rusher, no #2 DT, a on his downside Mike Evans, no LVD. This team is going to be in shambles whereas if they resigned Jamie’s for 5 years they could have spread the QB money out and still been able to secure the future by using that money elsewhere. So like I said when they singed the old spoiled one they better win IT ALL this year or this will go down as the biggest blunder this franchise has ever made and that’s saying a lot.
July 31st, 2020 at 10:20 am
And some like winston will never have have a prime.
July 31st, 2020 at 10:43 am
N dog this team has been a train wreck with no shot at a title, if we kept your boy we still would have been 3 years AT THE MINIMUM away from serious super bowl contention. Now we have the veteran leadership to contend NOW. So let’s take our shot now and rebuild around a young QB who is not a human turnover machine. This is not the NFL of 20 years ago, guys come into the league ready to throw it all over the yard.
July 31st, 2020 at 10:44 am
We know Roy you would not have wanted Peyton Manning, Steve Young, Warren Moon, Drew Brees or countless others either. But the problem is Jameis actually is comparable or better to all of the QBs above in their first 5 years but I guess that is simply irrelevant to people who don’t care about the future and want to worship a player that has done nothing for this franchise, fan base or city. Everyone just remember short-sighted moved usually result in long term disasters.
July 31st, 2020 at 10:47 am
I think Jamies has elite abilities at the QB position, but if you have a chance to get the best of all time you have to do it. Brady is a big upgrade over Jamies.
Brady has a good chance of being the NFL MVP this year in my opinion.
July 31st, 2020 at 10:50 am
Some people on here are so negative and full of cynicism.
noun. a person who believes that only selfishness motivates human actions and who disbelieves in or minimizes selfless acts or disinterested points of view. … a person who shows or expresses a bitterly or sneeringly cynical attitude.
I feel bad for all who are so hard hearted that joy escapes them.
July 31st, 2020 at 10:52 am
We know most of you would not have wanted P Manning, S Young, W Moon, D Brees or countless others either. But the problem is Jameis actually is comparable or better to all of the QBs above in their first 5 years but I guess that is simply irrelevant to people who don’t care about the future and want to worship a player that has done nothing for this franchise, fan base or city. Everyone just remember short-sighted moves usually result in long term disasters.
July 31st, 2020 at 11:06 am
How good is a runningback that was not included on the Chiefs superbowl roster?
July 31st, 2020 at 11:12 am
Ndog is Winston and el buco is GMC
July 31st, 2020 at 11:34 am
Yeah… the Bucs are leading the dogsled. Just remember that there will be a pack of hungry mongrels and mutts nipping at your heels. Good luck. You are going to need it. There won’t be any Sundays off. Every team has circled their Bucs game as a ‘must be ready’ game. Tom and Gronk know this. But the rest dont. Great ready for high intensity football
July 31st, 2020 at 11:35 am
N dog that was a different league, it was much easier to throw a pick when your wideout could be mugged! Compare oranges to oranges, the Interception numbers for every other QB playing during the time in the league that JW played are absurdly different! Stop comparing him to guys who threw the ball in a game with a whole different rules set.
July 31st, 2020 at 11:40 am
Notice how ndog and the others all compare Winston to greats. And all use the same excuses the have 1 source for their narrative. They’re nothing more than cult followers of a guy on Twitter. Who winston camp hired after Uber hit the fan to try to change the perception of Winston.
July 31st, 2020 at 11:43 am
CAUSE HIS NUMBERS ARE UP THERE WITH THE ALL-TIME GREATS! WHY WOULD WE COMPARE HIM TO PLAYERS WHO ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE TO HIM?
Yeah we all use the same sources THERE CALLED NUMBERS AND OUR EYES!
July 31st, 2020 at 11:47 am
Ok Mike against his peers he just threw for more yards than ANYONE and the 2nd most TDs. Yes he also had more interceptions BUT this offense is known to have that result in the first year. That came out of the head coaches mouth but everyone just acts like he threw 30 interceptions and did nothing else.
July 31st, 2020 at 12:09 pm
Yes this has been Lichts best off-season haul. But you forgot to give credit to the person most responsible, Jameis Winston. Without his performance on the field and exsorbrent salary demands none of this wouldn’t have been possible.
July 31st, 2020 at 12:22 pm
Man I just wanted to comment about Licht and if we win this year that he’s not really a dumbass……Are we really still talking about freaking Winston?…………Well, I like the moves Licht made but I also like the build up……….bringing in JPP, Suh and finding Shaq is a nice foundation for the defense…….Adding to that with White & Vea & all these young back fielders it really looks like he’s built something.
No reason to think the offense cant keep rolling and we might just have a team this year boys……..It did take a while but ya gotta tip your hat to the guy who built it if they get it done.
July 31st, 2020 at 12:26 pm
Does anyone think Arians coming to the Bucs was just a coincidence?
That one day Licht called a “retired” Bruce Arioans and said “are you interested?”
And, by coincidence ALL the guys he wanted on his staff were also, by coincidence, available?
Is it possible that want we are experiencing right now is a Master Plan coming together?
July 31st, 2020 at 12:27 pm
Ndog, your constant butthurt fapping gets rather tiring.
Surely there is some place you’d rather be? Mayube a Saints forum would welcome your one-track cheerleading with open arms.
July 31st, 2020 at 12:32 pm
Dude you sound like a whiney girl…..He had this stat and this number and so many yards. If stats is all ya got ya just
dont get football……..the freaking dude was staring up at 3 TD deficits for the better part of five years. His Tampa career was trying to play catch up. Granted he made fun much of the time…….and even pulled a few out……….But point is……its who he was that he could only play from behind. And its exactly how almost his entire tenure turned out. There’s a fact for ya.
Sure blame the defense, fair. But it’s an absolute lie to say much of it wasn’t self inflicted………You wanna set there and name perianal All Peo QBs……You need to recognize them guys made there names just rarely let there teams get down by 2,3,4 scores…….Even when their defenses got lit up……..Easier to win games that way
July 31st, 2020 at 12:57 pm
Peyton Manning had 12 more TOs than Jameis in his first 5 years so why wasn’t he a bum? BTW he also was playing with M. Faulk and E. James, who’s just a tad better than D. Martin, P. Barber and R. Jones.
But I know I know that doesn’t matter, cause nothing matters with you guys cause you have convinced yourself that this great team over the last 5 years was held back by literally the only positive part about this team, which of course was the passing game.
Literally EVERYTHING has sucked around him. Ask yourself this has our running game been decent, not good decent, has our defense
been decent, not good decent, has our kicking game been decent, not good decent?
Now ask yourself have we been in games? The answer of course is yes, yes we have been in games and the reason is 100% Winston, Evans, Brate and Godwin. Without those men this team could have easily been 1-15 or 2-14 every year THAT’S how bad this team has been.
July 31st, 2020 at 1:14 pm
Ndog……One little difference…..That last game of the year. The one in OT. Peyton Manning absolutely sticks that thing in the endzone. No if ands or buts……Its a no doubter. You know it I know it. Everybody knows it……..That’s why I once seen Bill Bellichick go for a late game 4th and 10 from deep in his own territory. Because he just knew Peyton was gonna stick it in the endzone if he gave him a chance…….of course the failed on 4th and Manning scored anyway but that’s what greatness looks like. Somebody you are scared spotless to give the ball to.
July 31st, 2020 at 1:14 pm
Actually I was wrong that’s a big difference
July 31st, 2020 at 1:49 pm
Another post hijacked by “you know who”!
July 31st, 2020 at 2:05 pm
Who cares, Joe? Licht has shown that the only thing he can do is win the offseason. He certainly hasn’t won anything meaningful. I’ll say it again. Jason Licht has failed to build a winning football team. Full stop. Should have been fired years ago.
July 31st, 2020 at 2:12 pm
Cobra
You laid that out very well. I’m not a conspiratorialist at heart but when all the facts line up….you make a convincing point.
RayJay
I’m a writer and I love words. And you hit the nail on the head. I worry for my son. He certainly inherited my skepticism. All of us can be skeptical in fact we’ve all heard of a “healthy skepticism”. But never a healthy cynicism because as you point out the negativity is simply not productive.
Nothing is bad all of the time…that’s where the cynic loses out and as you point out misses out on all the enjoyment.
July 31st, 2020 at 2:20 pm
Chicken Little (n dog) and his weak ARSE cry baby buddies are just a laugh… Do you Fools not realize that your small appendage is showing Everytime you ladies open your pie hole for your boyfriend? We incase you were wandering, let me just BE CLEAR.. YOU ARE A BUNCH OF CHICKEN LITTLE, SLAP JAW, SISSY GIRLS! YOU DON’T SOUND LIKE WHINY LITTLE CHICKS, YOU ARE WHINY LITTLE CHICKS!
And By The Way, the reason these Whiny little girls don’t go over to the Ain’ts boards is 2 fold….
One, the Aints blogs aren’t having it and would PERSONALLY (if they didn’t hire someone Fools to disrespect there team ~ Joe Bucs Fan blog just maybe!!!) AKA HIRED BY JOE BUCS FAN to cause something…. Of which when That truth comes out it will RUIN THE CREDIBILTIY OF THIS BLOGGING SITE! WHICH IS “CLEAR” IN THE FACT THAT NONE OF THE JOES HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH THE NEGATIVITY FROM “CERTAIN” POSTERS VERSUS the Stupidest little comments from ANYBODY ELSE WILL GET YOU IN TIME OUT… BUT NOT THOSE GUYS! COINCIDE? OBVIOUSLY NOT……
And MORE IMPORTANTLY FOR REAL BLOGS THAT SUPPORT THERE TEAM AND MAY BECOME JUST A BIT OFFENDED BY THE CONSTANT ATTACKS OF THE TEAM THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO LOVE AND SUPPORT… YOY KNOW, TODAYS TEAM!
And with that said, i’m pretty sure they have NO INTEREST in hearing how great their third string QB is Compared to RECORD BREAKING, THE REAL DEAL, BEST OF THE BEST THAT THERE EVER WAS IN THE GAME, QB that IS LEADING THE WAY TO SUPERBOWLS!
Nah, Those blogs WON’T stand for such a JOKE! Unlike the “Hired Hands” that stir the pot and BORE US CONSTANTLY!
YOU KNOW, THE HIRED CHICKEN LITTLE GROUP!
And THAT’S why you shouldn’t even bother.. It’s a Joe that your commenting on and the Desperate grab for attention…
It’s simple really. ALL you have to do is ask yourself why they NEVER have a comment or a rebuttal concerning the CHIKEN LITTLE GROUP?
It’s actually pretty clear isn’t it……. YES IT IS!
GO BUCS AND REAL BUCS FANS!
July 31st, 2020 at 2:25 pm
A QB can rack up a lot of passing yards when the D he’s facing sits on a lead…and knows the opposing QB will eventually throw to the wrong colored jersey.
And, not to mention, that QB is somewhat responsible for the D sitting on that lead.
IMO, the final tell about Jameis Christ is when almost the entire team just shrugged about the team not re-upping the guy with Big Bucks. That collective shrug didn’t speak, it yelled…
July 31st, 2020 at 2:28 pm
stpetebucsfan Says:
The NFL is a mashup of meetings, violence, chess and liar’s poker…
Like luck, I don’t believe in coincidences…especially when taking a stratospheric view of the landscape.
July 31st, 2020 at 4:26 pm
Ndog any time you talk about Payton Manning compared to Jamies they gets mad . And by the way Payton Manning had a hall of fame runningback in E.James who’s going to the hall of fame this year . So I feel you bro this franchise has never been able to developed a quarterback but it’s always the quarterback fault never the organization . They did a bad job by letting Lovie go because he was the only one that had a real plan in developing Jamies by giving him a running game . The moment Lovie left our running game left with him. Because we haven’t had a running game since . Instead they put every thing on Jamies and that’s bad for any quarterback .
July 31st, 2020 at 4:37 pm
Last year I name you games we were in the lead late in we couldn’t lose them out because we didn’t or we couldn’t run the ball . Or the defense couldn’t stop the other team. I can go back the pass 5 years . So that hold notions of we were always behind is false and made up . I will be glad when this Brady thing is over after this year . So right now the defense is the only thing I will be more focused on .
July 31st, 2020 at 5:12 pm
You’ll be glad when this Brady thing over cool. I’m just happy the Winston thing is over with or without Brady.
July 31st, 2020 at 5:15 pm
You know whts not false the past five years ya boy lead the league in turnovers every year but let’s all sweep that under the rug.
July 31st, 2020 at 5:56 pm
My favorite Bucs player was Derrick Brooks. One day he got cut. Did I cry about it? No, it’s not something to cry about. Life went on. It’s time for those still crying about someone no longer on the Bucs to stop crying about it. There are probably plenty of Saints websites that might want to hear your drivel, but I can assure you that Bucs fans DO NOT.
July 31st, 2020 at 6:52 pm
Ndog Says:
July 31st, 2020 at 11:47 am
Ok Mike against his peers he just threw for more yards than ANYONE and the 2nd most TDs. Yes he also had more interceptions BUT this offense is known to have that result in the first year. That came out of the head coaches mouth but everyone just acts like he threw 30 interceptions and did nothing else.
dont forget, he also had 7 pick 6’s… 7×7=49
49 divided by 16 games= 3.06
jw spotted the other team an average of 3 points a game. thats not including all of the other turnovers that contributed to points.
and ppl question why the bucs threw the ball so much! they had to dig themselves out of the hole constantly
July 31st, 2020 at 7:26 pm
951 you are obsessed with TOs it is literally all you think about. Just in case anyone cares at the end of the game they look at the TOs and determine the winner. So the Super Bowl last year was actually a tie cause both those bum QBs threw 2 interceptions. TURNOVERS AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHJJ, TURNOVERS AHHHHHHHHHHHHH THE HORROR AHHHHHHHHHHHHH! How did they even finish the game AHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! TURNOVERSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!
July 31st, 2020 at 7:35 pm
You are like talking to a brick wall, I will say that the same argument you make for people screaming about turnovers applies to you and your 5000yd sheet checkin self. You act as if we let one of the greatest quarterbacks to ever live walk, it is just not the case.
July 31st, 2020 at 8:04 pm
Cause statically speaking we did Mike, it’s really that simple.
CHECK YA SHEET!!!
July 31st, 2020 at 8:36 pm
Ndog enough with the stat nerd nonsense. We are the fans of this team. Dont come around pretending stats matter more then wins.
Stats do not equal greatness. If you boy was really great he would of won us his last game. But he didnt. He choked and he failed. It is what it is and it’s really that simple…….and the week before? Choke and fail.
Stats dont absolve that. Not even close. It’s actually kinda sad you think they do……Its almost like your argument comes solely from a stat sheet. It’s like the process and result dont matter to you.
July 31st, 2020 at 9:03 pm
My post is open to correction or civil debate. The post is about Jason Licht (JL), not JW.
The only QB’s in modern era who were #1 draft picks AND won a SB for their teams who drafted them are Peyton Manning and John Elway.
Peyton was drafted in 1998 and won his first SB with Colts in 2007 > 9 years later, and it took hiring Dungy constructing a superior D to go along with Peyton’s offense and running game to finally win the SB for Colts.
It took Elway 16 years after being drafted to win his Super bowls, and Elway had Terrell Davis paving the way as ProBowl RB behind a premier OL built over time.
Chiefs were 27th in draft order in 2017, meaning Chiefs were in playoffs in 2016. Andy Reid traded up to #10 pick for Mahomes, and Reid sat Mahomes for year to watch and learn behind a consummate QB leader in Alex Smith. Mahomes is a transcendent talent who also benefited from being on a loaded team with an offensive master calling plays, and led his team to a SB win quickly. Chiefs likely will be a dynasty for years to come with a solid team and young franchise QB.
Peyton and Elway’s leaders needed time to build around them. Both QB’s were labeled as “unable to get over the hump or win the big one” for a long time. Mahomes benefited from his amazing natural talent along with being on a stacked team early in his tenure, with a great play caller.
Brady – in YR 2 of being drafted, became starter for 14 games in 2001 after Bledsoe injury. 11-5, Super Bowl win. 2843 yrs, 18 TD’s 12 INT’s including SB and 86.5 QB rating. Solid rushing game, excellent D and Kicking game. The Pats dynasty began with a young QB, who was on a solid team going forward & being coached for 20 yrs by arguably the best NFL coach ever. And savy FA signings.
Brady, Manning, Elway & Mahomes are incredible QB’s. Not assigning Winston to their class. My point is that at time of their SB wins, these QB’s were on solid teams, with leaders (GM/Coach) who drafted wisely with solid FA acquisitions, who all had long-term vision.
IN contrast:
Bucs 2015 season for Winston – took over a 2-14 team with lot of holes. With Doug Martin as Pro-Bowl RB in 2015, then rookie JW threw for >4000K yds, 22 TDs and 15INTs 84.2 QB rating. JW backed into Pro Bowl, but still selected ahead of other QB options who could also “back into PB”. and 2 Kickers.
Bucs 2016 Season – new HC. Most important is that JL ENTIRE draft class was a TOTAL BUST, including trading up valuable real estate for a freaking kicker. No build for future, and FA signings were a bust. Hurt the future success.
I could go on, but the point is that the Bucs were behind the curve early on in successfully building a foundation to support any young QB. Zero running game for most years (Payton Barber – com’on) 7 kickers in 5 yrs, and the horrid Mike Smith years leading the D.
I have been on record in JBF blog, as one who wanted Bucs/Winston to part ways after 2018, for best interests of both parties. 2019 – Winston beefed up to 240+ to absorb hits in BA risk-it Offense, which was going to be a disaster for INTs for a first yr QB in BA’s offense, based on history. I did not anticipate 30 INT’s. There are many INTs that probably not on Winston, but no matter, it is what it is.
I think the Houston game and last game at Falcons sealed Winston’s fate for re-signing. Sadly, those two games erased all the good he did for five years, including veiling so many short-comings of the overall team, even with his TO’s.
2020 – BA and JL have mortgaged the Bucs long vision with a young QB, for a short-term window to win SB with a 43 yr old QB, to validate their careers. That is my view. The Bucs are finally set up with a better overall team to win.
The big diffs for 2020 are 1) finally drafting OL – Wirfs, 2) finally drafting RB options, 3) Winfield – should be awesome 4) re-signing JPP/Suh, 5) Gay 2nd year
For me, Covid-be-damned, signing a 2 yr rental QB means SB win is required; otherwise the short-term strategy is a bust for Bucs. We are the most talked about team in NFL with 5 priority games in prime time with Brady at QB. Brady has zero excuses, given experience of winning 6 rings, quick release, accuracy, being a savant, and so on.
JL and BA need Bucs to go deep in playoffs at least, and ideally win SB. This weird year with Covid should not allow any excuses, given how loaded the Bucs O talent with a 6 ring savant QB, rising D and experienced kicker.
Circling back, I wanted 2018 to be a separation for Bucs and JW. However, Bucs went forward with JW in a learning 2019 year, and I am disappointed that JL and BA cut JW when 2020 could have been that “click year.” JL/BA bet their butts on Brady. A good bet, if Brady was 35. With Brady at 43, I am watching with tempered expectations.
2020 will be one of Bucs most intriguing years to follow, as a Bucs lifer. Expecting SB WIN, period.
July 31st, 2020 at 9:30 pm
Redzone that’s a pretty good post and summary. But there may be part to the picture we are not aware of. I keep going back to what Joe has said before in his podcast that had we retained Winston there are defensive players here who would not wanna stay…….Never heard any names but my guess is JPP is one of them. And if you noticed as soon as we signed Brady Suh came back quickly. Guessing he’s another.
Not crazy to imagine if we lost those two Shaq Barrett may have reservations on staying longterm…….There might be more to it then if the Bucs just wanted Winston back or not. Resigning him may very well have come at a cost.
And if we gotta start all over again on defense and take the lumps that come with it how much longer would it be until guys like Evans or Godwin decide they wanna find new teams?
Of course, this is only speculation. But for sure worth considering.
July 31st, 2020 at 10:24 pm
REDZONE BA, OUTSTANDING!!!
July 31st, 2020 at 11:05 pm
JimmyJack – appreciate the response. You are right on that signing Brady most-likely changed the outlook for the D, which may have resulted in the overall structure of the team as far as re-upping key players like JPP and Suh. Those guys are key cogs to next year’s D success. I trust that JBF has insight that we, as fans, do not have, so I accept that probability that those guys may have passed on re-signing if JW was 2020 QB. No doubt that the D was frustrated with the INT’s and pic 6’s and having to helmet-up faster than planned.
Even w/o those two key players, we still have Shaq, Vea, Devin White, LD, and upcoming secondary and Winfield. Dynamics would be different, but miles ahead of the last five years of Mike Smith and Lovie D’s. I still get your point, Jimmy.
Brady comes to Bucs with unmatched credentials and brings hope to the D that they can play their game ‘normal’, meaning defending punt coverage or after Field Goal or TD. No argument from me on that note.
My concern is the what-if’s with a great, but 43 yr old QB. Brady has changed the dynamic of age of 40’s QB by his success in last few years. But Father-time is cruel, and I am concerned that there will be that one missed block that knocks Brady out due to his immobility, and kills the Bucs loaded team for play-off run. All silly What-if’s.
I have always been a huge Brady fan, and believe if any 43 yr old QB can overcome statistical odds, Brady is the one who will change the bell curve.
I am hopeful, but skeptical. JW was 2nd leading rusher in 2018, and not far behind in 2019, which could be interpreted many ways. Net, JW extended drives with his feet, that led to TD’s more than he is given credit for.
Brady, on the other hand, will likely hit WR on time if open, or throw out of bounds, to live another day. Punt and the D will appreciate that option vs INT.
My speculation, but if JW was Bucs QB in 2020, his INTs would be under 15 and Bucs would be in playoffs with possible SB run. AND, a long vision for success.
Diff with Brady? 1 or 2 year window to buy a SB. After Brady retires, we as Bucs fans, start over. I do not see a #1QB in 2022 draft, which means Licht will sign another short-term QB FA to bridge. Bummer.
I am rooting for Brady and Bucs wild success in 2020. Again, 2020 is must-watch BUCs TV.
August 1st, 2020 at 12:12 am
Whatever happens this season Light did pretty dang good as our GM in all honesty. Good job now Go Bucs!
August 1st, 2020 at 12:30 am
Crock – yep, THIS season, JL did good. No doubt.
But what about JL’s past 4 yrs with Bucs? GM’s have soft win by hitting 50% of draft picks working out. 2016 draft results were like Bucs did not participate in draft. None of JL pics are in NFL. And his FA signings? yikes! ugly.
JL is like a cat with 9 lives.
JL is living off Brady signing. I still wonder how many teams were chasing Brady?
August 1st, 2020 at 12:40 am
Good take, Redzone, but I would add the Bugs have drafted OL decently beyond Wirfs, with Smith, Cappa and Marpet. Add Jensen as a FA, and they are finally gelling.
August 1st, 2020 at 12:49 am
What surprised me during off-season, was that there was not a bidding war for Brady? From Chargers, Titans, Raiders, Jags, and other teams whose gap was QB
Brady signing with Bucs seemed to be been pre-determined via back-channel conversations with BA and Bucs. Or…was Brady not as in-demand, as we think?
BA wanted Brady and Bucs tied up Brady quickly. Done. Now BA has to deliver SB with loaded offensive talent with amazing QB. Bring it, BA! LOADED offense and excellent D. No excuses!
August 1st, 2020 at 1:08 am
Redzone ba Brady let it be known he was only gonna talk with 4 teams. Bucs chargers raiders SF all we’re interested. Sf backed out Brady chose Bucs
August 1st, 2020 at 1:28 am
Youngbucs – Chargers chose Tyrod and Herbert for future, Raiders (Gruden) chose Carr, SF chose to stick with Garropolo. What my point is – Brady;s only option was the Bucs. And BA wanted Brady.
My point is that there was not bidding war for Brady, as the savior for any team other than Bucs. BA/JL are betting their butts and careers on Brady. That was my point, along with fact that Bucs were not competing for Brady’s services.
August 1st, 2020 at 8:45 am
There was no bidding war because Brady didn’t want one. His choice was not about money. It was about legacy and going out with some fun.
Brady has never been about the money, even if he had Da Sheets and I’m Ballin’™…
Brady is no fool, that’s for sure. No doubt he has hos own “people” who feed him every bit of information and data be wanted and needed. He knew where the opportunities were, and TB was a perfect fit for him. And Arians. And Licht.
Keep in mind Arioans let it be known a long time ago he was looking behind “Door #2.” The entire league, including players and agents, knew who was available and where the fit might be.
There are few real secrets in the NFL, and many ways to telegraph one’s intentions.
Arians was like at a high school sock hop, winking at the pretty girl across the gym, looking for the proper time to make his move. And Brady acknowledged that wink.
It’s really simple…
August 1st, 2020 at 9:43 am
I like the moves but we lost at least 2 games because of the kicker. Why not Gostkowski????
August 1st, 2020 at 4:20 pm
Ndog
Did you call somebody “obsessed “??
August 2nd, 2020 at 1:15 am
SITUATIONAL FOOTBALL
JW doesn’t have it.
Brady does.
In BA I Trust!