Hoping For A Pro Bowler, Or Hoping To Buck History?
April 4th, 2020
The debate rages on at JoeBucsFan.com world headquarters?
And it all centers around the status of the Buccaneers secondary.
As Ira Kaufman mauls the delivered tray of Hooters wings, the Joes argue relentlessly about the Bucs defensive backfield and how much of a priority giving it an immediate and significant upgrade should be.
Joe typing here is appalled by the current state of affairs, while recognizing there’s still time to fix it.
With Tom Brady in town the bar has been raised dramatically, rightfully so. Therefore, it’s worth noting that every Super Bowl team of the last 10 years (20 teams) either had a Pro Bowl defensive back on the roster during that season (15 teams) or had a former Pro Bowler in the starting lineup (5 teams).
Coincidence? Hardly.
Currently the Bucs have no former Pro Bowler in the secondary and Joe isn’t really to call anyone back there now on the cusp of greatness.
So unless there’s a change of mindset at One Buc Palace, the Bucs will be seeking to change modern NFL history in 2020.
Hey Joe, what are you hiding, why did you only go back 10 years? Calm down, it was the same in 2009, with the Saints having two Pro Bowl safeties and the Colts having one.
In a passing league, in a year the draft is loaded with receivers, in a division with two elite QB opponents and a Panthers team that has three strong receivers, Joe will pray the front-7 can do enough to be a championship defense.
April 4th, 2020 at 11:48 am
SuperBowl/Playoff Teams get national playing time, recognition. Losing teams don’t. It’s a self fulfilling prophecy to have multiple pro bowlers on playoff teams in contention for the SB and certainly playing in them.
Classic Chicken or the egg story.
I’d say we are nearly set, but thinking you are going to get a Pro Bowl caliber FA is a fools errand with our current cap situation.
Let the Band Of Brothers keep working and the momentum from last year.
In BA I Trust!
April 4th, 2020 at 11:54 am
Is this the same Joe that said our last staff couldn’t develope DB’s?
I did agreed at first but time revealed you was right.
This is not a bad thought either that I initially brushed off. With Tom here we do have to be serious about putting a contender on the field.
But I will trust this staff. They earned that after doing a really good job with young players last year. I trust they know what they got and have a good plan at the position.
By the way…..When was the last time a Bucs DB made a probowl? Was it Ronde Barber? Has it been that freaking long? Or did Talib make one?
April 4th, 2020 at 11:56 am
What happened to the coach them up and developing these coaches were acclaimed to do?????? All we have seen , is player replacement!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And how is anyone going to find a “pro-bolwer” secondary player for 3 million????? Do they need one,, sure!!!!!!!!! But no money!!!!!!!!!!!!
They better produce!!!!!!!! Because its results or they are all gone!!!!!!!!!!
go bucs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
April 4th, 2020 at 11:56 am
Plenty of time for a trade.
Plenty of time to pick up a vet released after the draft.
I’d like another vet RT and a proven pass catching vet RB before a DB.
April 4th, 2020 at 11:57 am
Sport that’s a valid point.
By that same token Lavonte David could play his usual he and if we win he probbaly makes a ProBowl……Won’t suddenly become a better player. Will just get more respect.
But let’s also be honest. Our secondary hasn’t had a ProBowl worthy player in years.
April 4th, 2020 at 11:59 am
Real. It’s the same freaking team. What are you huffin?
April 4th, 2020 at 12:00 pm
@Jimmy joke
I remember Revis making a pro bowl when he was a Buc!!!!!!!! But that was given to him by name recognition only!!!!!!!!! So that was 2013!!!!!!!!
go bucs!!!!!!!!!
April 4th, 2020 at 12:04 pm
@Jimmy joke
It’s a very “real” possibility that only 5 starters remain from the opening day starters of 2018!!!!!!!!! That is some reload!!!!!!!!!!! If they were to do a rebuild, they would have to burn down one buc and move the team to russia compared to this “reload”!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
go bucs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
April 4th, 2020 at 12:06 pm
If you think they’re going to try to stunt the growth of any of these young corners by bringing in some has-been to fulfill your fantasy you need to keep dreaming.
I could see them potentially bringing in a veteran Safety after the draft, but I have no idea if that man will bring the required popularity trophy with him.
How about we worry about making the playoffs before we assume a Super Bowl.
April 4th, 2020 at 12:07 pm
Have some faith……we have 4 chances at a pro bowl DB……..Davis, SMB, Dean or Whitehead…..my money would be on SMB…..
As for picking one up……little chance.
April 4th, 2020 at 12:13 pm
Bucs can’t develop DB’s so they finally do and you want them to bring in some old washed up guy simply because he’s a veteran. It’s not like your saying bring in Logan Ryan or some top shelf guy because you know they can’t afford it. Media has the luxury of sitting back saying these things when nfl execs have to trust they found the right people and allow them to develop. They need a safety not a corner
April 4th, 2020 at 12:13 pm
Fans putting a lot on Jamel Dean. He played a few good games and has a history of injury problems. The defense played good at the end of the season? Anyone remember 2016??? A good Safety makes your CBs jobs easier.
Patriots are contending every year since I can remember. Guess which position group they spend most of their money on?? Defensive backfield.
April 4th, 2020 at 12:13 pm
It baffles me how so many Bucs fans automatically think these DBs will be good. It was such a small sample size of them playing well and we’ve been fooled by this before (Mike Smith 2016)
They might be good who knows. But last year for example, the only elite QB I saw Jamal Dean face in Russel Wilson he got absolutely destroyed. Looked slow and flat out bad.
April 4th, 2020 at 12:17 pm
@tampabaybucfan
You better wake up and bring more to the table then “faith” !!!!!!!!!!!!! You need to find your lucky rabbit’s foot and start looking for 4 leaf clovers!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They won”t be playing that soft schedule against those back jo QB’s that they played at the end of last season!!!!!!!! There will be some “real” NFL QB’s that will be looking to carve them up!!!!!!!!!! You better smell the coffee and “realize” why the Joe’s are scared and want to upgrade the secondary!!!!!!!!!
Soon the sheep will “realize” the truth!!!!!!!!!!!!
go bucs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
April 4th, 2020 at 12:21 pm
Tbbucs3. It was like 8 games bro. The secondary started to finally show up in that Cardinals game.
8 games is a small sample size in MLB but not in the NFL.
April 4th, 2020 at 12:22 pm
Like there’s Pro Bowlers hanging on some magical free agent tree.. smh
So we pluck a veteran out of FA and pay him a lot of money and he sucks or gets hurt early, or just collects a check, who will be the first person you will blame?
Licht, Arians? ..thought so
April 4th, 2020 at 12:23 pm
Hooters letting you eat inside?
April 4th, 2020 at 12:24 pm
Amateur GM Jason Licht is about to trust……
– Kicker Matt Gay
– A group of DBs who played a handful of good games vs Meh opponents
– A broken safety unit where Chris Conte would probably be able to compete for a starting spot.
– And Ronald Jones at RB
This Bucs team is far from a complete team right now. Jason Licht better not screw up this draft like he did in 2016.
April 4th, 2020 at 12:24 pm
And why is this guy peddling a soft schedule. The only thing that’s soft….is you….in the head.
We are talking secondary. They shut down Julio Jones twice and Hopkins. Both have good QBs too. Are you like stuck in November or are you just that dumb?
April 4th, 2020 at 12:26 pm
Jimmy Jack
It was 5 games look at the schedule.
2 of those games were against the Lions and Jaguars.
So technically it was 3 games vs real opponents. They played well against the Falcons X2 and the Texans. That’s it. Got any more games they played well against? I would love to hear them.
April 4th, 2020 at 12:28 pm
And BTW Kyler Murray throwing 3 TDs and for 324 yards does not qualify as “showing up”
April 4th, 2020 at 12:35 pm
Yeah you can discount the Cardinals game if you wanna. That’s fair. But they did step up in that game and played a great 4th quarter. They won us that game in the 4th. They were consistently good from there on out.
It was a stretch of consistent good football. At the same time I will give credit to what Ronde Barber said that the DL did make it easier for them. So that’s gotta be part of it too.
And so what if we played some poor teams? You do realize that’s how it works for every team don’t you? Ypu get some good yes some bad. I could see if we played bad against better opponets but that’s not what happened.
April 4th, 2020 at 12:50 pm
Again, the point remains, It was a small sample size of good play vs average (Falcons and Texans) and bad (Lions and Jaguars) opponents. Why do we assume they’re automatically going to be good for a full season this year?
I got plenty of tape of bad play from last year. NFL game pass is free right now everyone, just turn on the Seahawks, Giants, Rams and Saints games if you wanna.
April 4th, 2020 at 1:00 pm
So I looked it up. It was seven games. I’m sorry bro. That’s not a small sample in the NFL.
And you can’t call the Falcons average if we are talking secondary. That’s just not fair. Houston you could but you can’t say that facing Hopkins is not an elite test for them.
They prooved it against good competition.
Now all they have prooved to this point is potential. If you are skeptical they can build off that I got no issues.
But calling it a small sample is wrong. 7 games is a lot in football.
April 4th, 2020 at 1:01 pm
Name the 7 games?
April 4th, 2020 at 1:05 pm
No, but if you don’t want wings delivered, you can pick up a tray of wings.
April 4th, 2020 at 1:06 pm
And I’m not saying they will be good for a whole season either. I just like their potential and think they are talented enough to. I think they showed that down the stretch…….And when everybody said at the time it was against bad teams they got their shot against a good one on Prime Time vs the Texans……..To me that game prooved they weren’t fooling around and stumbling into luck.
But I do realize all of sports is a year to year thing. They need to work their asses off and improve their game even more. Other teams will be studying them. They need to do their film work as well.
Not saying they will be good. I just like their chances.
And if they wanna add a vet corner to this group like Joe suggested it might not be a bad idea.
April 4th, 2020 at 1:10 pm
Name the 7 games? I told you already. From the Cards game on. 8 games technically. But I didn’t count the Saints because they thoroughly beat us down in all phases. Don’t particularly remember how good or bad secondary was in that game but my guess is not pretty.
April 4th, 2020 at 1:15 pm
We’ve invested to heavily in the secondary over the last few seasons. No need to add to it right now, let these guys compete and play the first 4 games if it’s looking bad then you can always make a trade prior to the deadline
April 4th, 2020 at 1:18 pm
And I might even could count that Saints game too. Drew Breast had one of his lowest(2nd lowest) passing totals of the season in that game at 228.
Michael Thomas had a nice day with 114 yard and a TD……..Though that is a far cry from what he’s been know to do to our secondary.
But I won’t go just by stats. They don’t tell the whole story. Like I said all’s I remember in that game was getting soundly beaten in all phases. Harder for me to remember games when I watched them in rage.
April 4th, 2020 at 1:20 pm
JP that’s actually a really nice idea. Good job. You win the argument.
April 4th, 2020 at 1:26 pm
Colts and Cards game do not count.
Jags and Lions game were incredibly easy and should not be evidence for these DBs being good next season.
The defense stoped Lions QB David Blough and RB Wes Hills. Big deal.
It was 5 games and 2 of those games were bottom feeder offenses.
April 4th, 2020 at 1:31 pm
Your counting the Colts game really? 35 points
I know we blame Winston ints for everything but that still doesn’t mean the secondary played good.
Ex. Opening drive JW throws an int at the 50 yard line. Next play Jamal Dean gets burnt on a post route and let’s up a Td.
April 4th, 2020 at 1:31 pm
I actually began to believe Jamel Dean was going to be the real deal when he was thrust into that Seattle game because of injury.
Everybody thought he sucked because he couldn’t shut out freaking Lockett. How many NFL DB’s shut him down.
So Jamel runs stride for stride with Lockett on virtually every route only to have one of the top five QB’s in the league drop dimes on him that went right into Locketts hands…the rook was all over him but Wilson was better that day.
Dean kept coming back…he’s got the cojones for the position…SMB has the skill set..and C Davis has an extra year of experience on them and skill and cojones. These guys…at least Davis and to perhaps a lesser degree Dean are not afraid to stick their nose in there and hit people.
An NFL team is lucky to have ONE true cover corner…we have the possibility of fielding three of them.
As much as everyone is understandably jacked about Brady and our offense I’m just as excited to see this D and especially the three young DB’s and our potential superstar in the middle of it all. D White could very well blow up this year if he stays healthy.
April 4th, 2020 at 1:36 pm
“I actually began to believe Jamel Dean was going to be the real deal when he was thrust into that Seattle game“
Wow Jamal Dean single handedly lost us that game. He played terribly. Amazing how much patience you guys have for anyone not named Jameis Winston.
April 4th, 2020 at 1:40 pm
StPete you amaze me
You pat Jamal Dean on the back for that Seattle game but will never say a word about JWs great play in that game. JW vs Seahawks 335 Yards 2 TDs 0 Ints.
April 4th, 2020 at 1:41 pm
Most restaurants still have pickup. I favor the mom and pops…I do not wish to lose any…St. Pete is blessed.
Last night picked up dinner at the 4th St Shrimp Store and it was freaking delicious. If you have the money leave a more than generous tip for these people who risk their health so we can eat. I truly appreciate them and do not take them for granted. They NEED us now.
April 4th, 2020 at 1:47 pm
Like I said you can discount that Cardinals game if you want. But that 4th quarter is where it started.
And what do you mean you can’t count the Colts game? Just for that I’ll put the Saints back in their. Limiting Bress to 228 is pretty danged good.
I just don’t know why you are nitpicking. That part of the schedule basically represtents a NFL calendar…….You gonna play some bad teams, some playoff teams and some average teams…….and for this argument we played a few good passing teams and elite receivers.
You do realize we will play some bad teams next year don’t you?
And I got news for you. Good defenses get lit up too. That’s the way the league works. It’s a matchup league baby. Go look up San Fran last year. I’m certain you’ll find at least one clunker. You don’t point to that and say see they aren’t that good. You realize they got outmatched.
April 4th, 2020 at 1:47 pm
TbBucs
I got no problem with acknowledging that as one of JW’s finest. In fact I got no problem commending JW’s play out on the West Coast this year. Played well against the Rams.
I’m trying to let JW RIP…but since you brought it up…I invite you to go back to that Donavan Smith thread…pick it up at the end and scroll up a few posts to
D-1’s response to Big Hog.
D-1 is always an excellent poster but this one was just perfect. Describes not only JW but the difference in “gunslingers” versus “managers”..and what happens to game plans and play calling. Really an excellent read…objective..he doesn’t pick on JW he’s just not a fan of inconsistent play.
April 4th, 2020 at 1:49 pm
Tbbucs3 what’s your point anyway? What are you saying. That we gotta make big moves on the secondary cause these guys can’t play?
I don’t understand your angle. The potential and talent is real and was on display last year.
April 4th, 2020 at 1:55 pm
You know I love to ruffle feathers……..so not for nothing but one of them TDs in the Seattle game was stupidly thrown right to a Seattle defender. It was thrown directly into his hands………..intended for a receiver that was already covered by a separate defender.
It was a INT that was dropped……..actually deflected into the air……..and Perriman caught the lucky bounce.
It was a awful decision that almost took points off the board. It was a very lucky TD. Was a bad play for Winston he got away with.
April 4th, 2020 at 1:56 pm
Was thrown right to the wrong team……hahahaha. It’s like one of them embarrassing things a family member does and you say “years from now we’ll all have a good laugh about this”
April 4th, 2020 at 2:08 pm
The less your post is praised, the less such a post gets to see so that I get to learn something, I am very happy to see your post and I will also go to write good posts in life like you. Inspired.
April 4th, 2020 at 2:10 pm
This is my overall point
The Bucs shouldnt bank on a secondary that played a handful of good games and assume they will be reliable for a full season so they must add a FA safety or CB and also draft in that area as well.
Better to be safe than sorry because I will not be able to handle another season of a bad Buccaneers defense.
Also, here’s a revelation…… the Bucs did not have a good defense in 2019. Where’s the accountability for the 1st half of the season? Good defenses don’t just suck for half the season.
The last time the Bucs had a good defense Josh Freeman was the QB and Greg Schiano was the coach.
April 4th, 2020 at 2:19 pm
Davis is solid and only getting better. And SMB and Dean flashed elite traits last year and again should only get better. Plus they ate becoming fully ingratiated within Bowles system. Any issues of depth should be addressed in the draft with more talent young DBs.
April 4th, 2020 at 2:46 pm
Eric Berry is waiting for teams to be able to perform a physical…BA said there are other guys who can’t take a physical right now and that has slowed down the signings. Put the two together, what do you have? The best safety in the NFL when he last played. He did miss a year with an Achilles injury though.
April 4th, 2020 at 2:57 pm
A stout defensive line and linebacking corps can go a long way to helping out a secondary.
April 4th, 2020 at 3:01 pm
Tbbucs3
I agree another bad defense would suck. I also agree the first half of the season they were horrible in the secondary.
Sometime after VH111 left, they did start to come around. Hey they were all young and maybe it takes a minute to get Bowles….
As far as Seattle Dean had some bad plays, and some that showed promise. He did get thrust in the game at the last minute, and his issues looked to be more stamina and conditioning than anything else. That and R Wilson makes good corners look bad.
I’d like to have a vet safety too.
April 4th, 2020 at 3:15 pm
Tbbucs3…..For sure that’s a fair point.
I just don’t think this defense should be held to the fire because Todd Bowles had to take over for one of the worst assembled defenses in all of NFL historic. We truely was historically bad.
On top of that we changed the entire sceme that all these players had to learn. And many never played in a 3-4. I’ll admitt I dunk the Kool aid after we beat Carolina…….The struggles we had after that you could maybe argue were to be expected installing a new system & because Bowles had to learn all these players.
And to me it’s not just the turnaround they had down the stretch of I like this defense returning. There’s quite a few things we were good at all year that we can build on………..
#1 is turnovers……We created them all year. And that goes back all the way to preseason. It even shows up on Special Team where we created lots of loose balls.
#2 is RunD. Very simple. We are elite at stopping the run. All year long
#3 is goalline stands…….We made tons on them last year. All year long. Something we ha ENT saw in a long time.
#4 is clutch ability………This defense Made a lot of plays to close out games. It happened early against the Rams. And it happened til the end. LVD forced a huge fumble when Atlanta was gaining momentum in Week 17. Our offense/kicker didn’t make that huge play count. SMB had at least a couple big clutch game winning plays and White had one in Tennessee…….Just a few examples.
#5 passrush. We improved steadily in this area all year. We can get better too which is a Scarry thought.
All five of them things Ientioned are proven. This is what we are good at. No sample size or none of that. Were not hoping with stuff like this(like we somewhat are with secondary). We can legitimally expect it.
We got lots we can build around on defense…….And I don’t do stats but if that’s your thang apparently a lot of these advanced metrics back up what I’m saying…….and hard stats for things like turnovers or Run defense.
So heck yeah man. If you wanna add some secondary help I’m all for it. I would love to add a Safety here. Bowles seems to know how to use them. No problems here if take one at 14. You can easily make a argument a top Safety could be the biggest impact we could make with that pick if they are as good as that Honey Hair guy in Arizona or that Jets safety was for Todd.
As long as you don’t think we are some barran wasteland on defense I can see your point. Otherwise there is a lot of proven ability we can really build something with.
***END RANT***
April 4th, 2020 at 3:20 pm
Thinking second and third year players will be trending up is totally fine to me so not sure why that kills you. What kills me is fans thinking Winston will automatically stop throwing so many picks in year 6. When your in the top of the league in pass break ups as rookies considering they were horrible at the beginning of the season that is encouraging.
There is no nfl gm that says my rookies were trending up at the end of the season and had really good rookie seasons but I better bring in a washed up veteran in case they have a second year slump lol only fans and media think like that.
No one was saying this about Godwin after his forgettable rookie season. Guess we should bring in a veteran for Devin white too!!! VH3 was the vet and he was garbage. If it ain’t a star corner who no one will question as a starter no thanks and besides exactly how will they get caught up on the playbook and practice on field if we likely won’t have much of a training camp
April 4th, 2020 at 3:24 pm
And if I can say one good thing about the secondary it would be Carlton. That guy is just flat out good at coverage. He just knows how to stick. Not anything earth shattering he’s just a tough guy to separate against. Reminds me a bit of Brian Kelly in that way………and actually if you remember Brian Kelly’s whole career he was downright terrible in coverage his first season.
Carlton is just a solid player if you ask me. The assests he has is just stuff you can count on that won’t go away.
April 4th, 2020 at 7:48 pm
TB and Jimmy.
Glad you guys brought up that Seattle game. That game Russell Wilson was just beautiful. Our secondary was up and down but mostly Wilson was just golden.
There were 4 of us watching the game together that day and we kept remarking how badly the Seattle secondary was playing. JW was having easy pitch and catch to our receivers. If anyone was fairly evaluating just secondary play in that game. Tampa Bay’s was much better than Seattle’s that day.
April 5th, 2020 at 1:16 am
Man there are some angry Bucs? fans in here. Sometimes I wonder if some people are fans of the Bucs or fans of criticizing and demonizing the Bucs? Its very hard to tell who actually likes the Bucs when reading some of these comments.
Fact of the matter is that the secondary got a lot better after Vernon was released. If anyone cares to check Dean was in the top couple Db’s for passes defended in his well reduced playing time. You don’t tend to hear about that much as well- its the Bucs… and Bspn didn’t think of them as the sexy thing to have on Tv.
Remember also that in June there’ll be another round of jettisoned players so we don’t know how that will all line up. But, I hate to tell ya- this seasons going to be delayed a couple months.
I just don’t see the point in all the hate.
if the Bucs defense picks up where they left off we might have something special- indeed at the very least worth our time to watch.
I myself left the Bucs game on in the other room and went to do something else in my apartment during many Bucs games the last few years- but none of those were after a DB mistake (Though there have been many in the past) … ALL of them came after the feeling of ‘Why should I bother because this is futility – as yet another Jameis int. was thrown.
April 5th, 2020 at 10:56 am
Ricky Ricardo
I don’t see any anger in this thread. There are some people simply pointing out that this secondary may not be all glitz and glamor as suggested and that many of the secondary issues that plagued this team last year (and for the last 6 years) may still remain.
When did pointing out a massive weakness on the team become hate? If there’s any hate on this website it’s all the Jameis slander.