Is Trust An Issue?
February 3rd, 2020
“Dang Bruce, you really want me to throw to Dare?”
(Photo courtesy of Buccaneers.com.)
For those who have absolutely, positively made their minds up that Mr. Entertainment, America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston, should be gone no matter the wonderful numbers he puts up, no matter his personality, no matter the excitement and drama he brings to each dropback, please click elsewhere on this page.
This story isn’t for you.
For those that crave information, pride themselves in having open minds and try to practice critical thinking, this is your kinda post.
Does the answer to trimming down Jameis’ picks lie in a running back who is looking for work?
Maurice Moton of Bleacher Report takes a look at possible landing spots for free agent running back Melvin Gordon.
In Moton’s analysis, he believes Gordon can help Jameis cut his picks. Why? Well, Moton insinuates Jameis is loathed to checkdown on passes because he may not trust his current crop of running backs.
Arians and Leftwich don’t have to coach the gunslinger mentality out of Winston. They could bolster the ground attack with a dual-threat option, providing the turnover-prone signal-caller with a reliable target in the short passing game. At the moment, the Buccaneers don’t have a consistent running back to fill that role. …
Gordon can easily take on the workhorse role, and his pass-catching skills could entice Winston to check down more frequently, which may cut down on the quarterback’s risky passes to receivers in double coverage.
Joe honestly never thought about that before. But it adds up.
Take the first game of the year, near the end of the game when Jameis threw to Dare Ogunbowale on what appeared to be either a screen or a checkdown, and Ogunbowale totally butchered the play and it turned into a pick-six to seal the game for the 49ers. Now Joe is of the mind that Jameis should never have thrown the ball to Ogunbowale. And frankly, Ogunbowale shouldn’t even be on an NFL roster, but that’s another story for another day.
Joe thinks Moton is on to something here. Gordon coming out of the backfield sure as hell would be an upgrade in the passing game.
And think about it, if you are a quarterback, who are you going to trust, Mike Evans, Chris Godwin, Cam Brate, Breshad Perriman or, say, Peyton Barber? Makes sense to Joe.
February 3rd, 2020 at 8:08 am
Yep, that’s the problem alright. You solved the riddle, Joe. It’s all Dare’s fault. He must not have trusted Brate on the last pass of the season either, huh?
February 3rd, 2020 at 8:16 am
Barber and Dare aren’t good, but that’s not the reason Jameis throws INTs.
February 3rd, 2020 at 8:17 am
Gordon is just fine but he’s just a shiny object right now because he’s not in a Bucs uniform. Everyone who is a fan knows that even
Rojo had a much better yards-per-carry average this year and pass catching rate to boot.
February 3rd, 2020 at 8:19 am
Did you see NDOG trying to claim picks again are not a big deal and mahommes still able to win with 2 picks and 2 fumbles
You gotta love his cherry picked stats
——-
The two fumbles werent lost. So They are not a turnover dumb dumb
So he threw 2 picks
Guess how many games he threw 2 picks this entire year . Answer : zero
Meanwhile jameis averaged over 2 a game with fumbles lost
Actually mahommes had 5 to 1 td to int ratio this year
Threw for 50 tds the year before with little turnovers and won mvp
Now a super bowl winner . A guy who has trust of teammmates
Because he can win the game in the end and not throw a pick to lose it
Ndog looks terrible again
Even comparing mahommes and jameis in same sentence is laughable
February 3rd, 2020 at 8:24 am
Jameis should not be paid more than last year- especially if he needs more help than other QBs.
Tired of losing. More tired of excuses.
February 3rd, 2020 at 8:33 am
He’s just not a good decision maker or very accurate. Those two things aren’t going to change magically in year 6.
Week 17 Jameis had his fewest attempts and still turned it over 2 times a improved running game isn’t gonna help him make better decisions or become accurate over night.
As a fan you want to win but when is enough enough for fans of this guy?
February 3rd, 2020 at 8:37 am
Joe, the fact we have to debate bringing Jameis back, proves he’s not worth bringing back. Will the KC fans be debating resigning Mahomes when his contract is UP? Wentz, Wilson, Watson, any of their fans not want them resigned? That’s all you need to know. Everyone who chimes in on Jameis says the same thing. They have a tough decision to make. He can make all the throws, but those bone head plays, all those turnovers. If only he had a line, a RB, contact lenses. When you’re about to pay a player over 27 million, and no one agrees whether that’s the right move, it isn’t the right move. Resigning a franchise QB to a second contract should be a no brainer, not a great debate.
February 3rd, 2020 at 8:37 am
gotbbucs – Funny you mention that because Brate did drop a critical pass on 4th down in regulation that would have extended the drive. I guess you missed that one?
February 3rd, 2020 at 8:37 am
Hey Joe, you better send ndog an alert stat so he can add it to his collection of JayMiss excuses.
Anybody seen Munch?
February 3rd, 2020 at 8:42 am
Wow….blame the running backs for his picks. Amazing crap. This article is just ANOTHER reason why Winston should be gone.
February 3rd, 2020 at 8:48 am
Listen, we spend way too much time talking jameis, he’s turnover prone, let him go that’s all he will ever be. He’s not MVP Pat, he’s not consistent Tom, just get him the hell away from our organization, I’m over it
February 3rd, 2020 at 9:00 am
so more weapons for winston?….lol….
the excuses never end….
GO BUCS!!!!!
February 3rd, 2020 at 9:01 am
Did RoJo play better this Year?
If the answer if Yes
Then the question is why did we have less yards and more INTs this year than last year AND we had a backup throwing for a couple of games?????
SOOO IF you are in the JAMIES MUST STAY CROWD Just day I love Jamies and don’t put out ever foolish stat
Good thing about Jamie’s staying will be Ticket Prices next year
Dropping like Enron Stock HAHA
February 3rd, 2020 at 9:03 am
hodad
i agree….
not only are the media saying its a “tough decision” but players ON the team are saying its a tough decision to make…..lol….
as you said, the answer should be cut and dry…plain and simple…..
GO BUCS!!!!!!
February 3rd, 2020 at 9:07 am
There is no doubt about it. Winston needs solid check downs that can turn into splash plays. Ronald Jones did some of that at the end of the season which was nice to see. It was also nice to see some screens sporadically. Also, Jameis is totally missing Adam Humphries in that role as well. He was an excellent safety valve.
February 3rd, 2020 at 9:07 am
Agree with 813 and Hodad. It’s a clear decision and I hope the Bucs make the right one. I hope we stick to our guns and let Jameis test the market to see what type of salary he would command. I’m not buying that he’s worth anything more that what he made last year and I’m not sure I’d pay him that much to come back? I am really hopeful we can go a new direction bc I don’t see playoffs going down this current route for 5+ years.
February 3rd, 2020 at 9:11 am
Joe getting all fired up about a free agent who is in decline. Shocking!
The truly enlightened fans understand that if you want Winston back and he is asking for $30+M AND you add an expensive FA, you have to cut somewhere on defense. IMO that is a mistake.
Keep this entire D together!
Get a upgrade at RT – FA or high draft pick
Set aside money for your draft class
The rest goes to go our QB and any other FA dream you have.
In BA I Trust!
February 3rd, 2020 at 9:13 am
Hell Yes Trust is an issue….now I’ll go read the article !
February 3rd, 2020 at 9:20 am
“For those that crave information, pride themselves in having open minds and try to practice critical thinking”
sorry j o e …..just because we want a different qb doesn’t mean you should insult us.
you are the definition of a tool.
February 3rd, 2020 at 9:29 am
Frankly, I don’t think we should be looking at “is he good enough to get us to the playoffs”, but “is he good enough to get to/win us a SB”? I think he COULD get us to the playoffs, but I don’t believe he could win us even a single game in the playoffs. Not just next season, but ever.
I’d keep him only as a bridge, and only if it’s at a low enough price to keep the FA’s on defense.
February 3rd, 2020 at 9:30 am
Joe claiming he has an open mind and uses critical thinking when it comes to Jameis is laughable
On podcast he usually says he’s ok with picks and makes excuses for Jameis rather than hold the #1 overall pick accountable for poor play
February 3rd, 2020 at 9:31 am
Good QBs make those around them better, not force a franchise over the barrel with having to Uber spend and surround you with playmakers.
Have an open mind, crave information and for the love of god, Joe, close your eyes and envision any other QB in this offense… less turnovers, more wins, less offense and that’s ok!
Why are we subjected and force fed a narrative that the QB is worth it and it’s never his fault. Dude sucks.
February 3rd, 2020 at 9:33 am
Jameis QBR #32, Last in league
You have to ask yourselves, woul any other team in the NFL trade their QB for Jameis Winston? Assuming the Bengals take Burrow, Colts take Tua. Possibly the Colts is the only team.
Need to move on…..
February 3rd, 2020 at 9:51 am
So you mean Winston will stop throwing picks if he had a big name to throw to? If a check down id the best option you take it no matter who you throw the pass to. He sure seemed to trust barber when he threw that pick 6 which was just a stupid pass if Richard Sherman is guarding him, million excuses out there for Winston. So every quarterback who threw less interceptions has a stud at running back? That’s a really dumb excuse
February 3rd, 2020 at 10:01 am
Mahomes is the face of the NFL now for marketing not just the KC Chiefs ….and Jameis is not ,can not be the face of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers …this is not lost on the GBoyz….BA and Jason Lite will have to have a very very convincing sit down with the G’Boyz when that talk occurs….I bet Ba and Jason Lite are sweating bullets !!!
Jameis IS Gone !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8Tiz6INF7I
February 3rd, 2020 at 10:04 am
Melvin Gordon? Too expensive. Why does ROJO get NO respect, He is the Rodney Dangerfield of JBF!! Gordon catches 75% of passes thrown his way ROJO catches 78%…again a virtual tie. Is Gordon faster…younger..promise a better 2020 than ROJO. Why do we believe that? I do not!
@Joe
This is a youtube link that provides the most objective analysis of #3’s tenure and future with the Bucs. It does have a stupid commercial in the earlier portion…guys can just ff past it.
For those in a hurry ff to the 11 minute mark where this guy breaks down all 30 of JW’s int’s…the NDOG portion. Clearly 19 were JW’s fault 11 were not but as the guy mentions..that does not include the DROPPED certain ints nor does the comparison count the other QB’s who had tipped balls and bad routes. IE Their numbers would also be lower if adjusted as is done here for JW.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eY4LPC6vc0
February 3rd, 2020 at 10:08 am
Sure;…..Gordon would help….how about Jameis chipping in $5 or $6 million to bring him on board…..
My only question is Melvin Gordon able to change the wind conditions when he’s in the game?
February 3rd, 2020 at 10:22 am
Jameis QBR #32, Last in league
You have to ask yourselves, would any other team in the NFL trade their QB for Jameis Winston? Assuming the Bengals take Burrow, Phins take Tua. Possibly the Colts are the only team.
Need to move on…..
February 3rd, 2020 at 10:22 am
Who said you can’t win a Super Bowl while throwing interceptions? Throwing 2 gets you a Super Bowl MVP award!!!!
February 3rd, 2020 at 10:22 am
@Stpete
I actually linked that exact video last week in another article. It really does make the best arguments both for and against Jameis. I’m personally against him at anything more than what he got last year (cheaper even if possible).
February 3rd, 2020 at 10:26 am
@Athlete
No one said you can’t win one when you throw picks. But when those 2 added to your season total still puts you at less than 1/3rd of the total picks thrown by our QB, it’s entirely different.
I don’t personally like Mahommes, but he protects the ball. Before last night, he had 5 picks all year. Jameis can do that in one game.
February 3rd, 2020 at 10:28 am
I’m not a big Gordon fan. He won’t come cheap and won’t be worth whatever it is he makes. We’ve got roughly $82 mil to spend, we’ll spend $30 mil minimum on signing our two best pass rushers and another $25-30 on a QB, that leaves $22 mil to try to get Suh, Nassib, Godwin, and maybe a few others (and no, we can’t keep them all… but Godwin is not going anywhere). If we sign JPP and Shaq, there is exactly ZERO chance we can afford to bring Suh back… and I’m fine with that if we can get an adequate replacement in the draft (Kinlaw maybe).
February 3rd, 2020 at 10:29 am
The man said trolls need not read the article. They did anyway. For the last five years Jameis Winston has been the only threat, the only hope, for the Bucs to win a game. For the last five years the Bucs have had the worst defense in the history of the league. For the last four years the Bucs have had the weakest ground game. You can’t even describe it as an attack. Pathetic kickers, and returners who still don’t know to let the kickoff go if it comes down inside the five yard line. 2019 is the first year coaching was a positive and the first year Licht’s picks showed promise as a complete team. For four decades I have been starved for an offense that could put together drives, pile up the yards, and actually punch it in for a touchdown. For four decades our FG kicker has been our offensive threat. So now we finally have a QB who can move the chains and score TDs, and we have troll fans who can’t tolerate the turnovers. F**k you. I have been saying since 2015, given an even mediocre defense, Jameis can win in this league. The defense shows up in the last eight games, and sure enough, the Bucs go 5-3, fractured thumb and all. Given just Godwin, forget about Evans, against Houston and Atlanta, the Bucs are 7-1, loosing only to the Saints. 7-1 is a winning record. 5-3 is a winning record. Give Jameis a healthy thumb, a second year in a new system, and a defense anywhere near what they were in those last eight games, the Bucs are good for at the very least a wildcard spot, and a shot to be the first team to play the SB in their home stadium. Sapp wanted 17 points from the offense. Jameis gave us 28.
February 3rd, 2020 at 10:34 am
Athlete,
30 INTs isn’t taking you to the playoffs let alone the super bowl
February 3rd, 2020 at 10:35 am
Solidify the OL and add an RB or two…..we’re good.
February 3rd, 2020 at 10:41 am
Highest paid OL in football?
Get a QB that gets rid of it quicker and they will get hit less. Too many sacks, And holds onto it/looks on reads too long.
February 3rd, 2020 at 10:43 am
@sleepy
That last pass had nothing to do with trust, Winston just didn’t see the defender, had nothing to do with not trusting Brate. I was pointing out the hypocrisy of this latest attempt at making excuses for Winston. You Winston people hell bent on giving this guy more money for the same results keep grasping at straws though. It’s cute to watch, it’s like little puppies searching for that last tit.
The jist of all this nonsense is that Winston needs everything else on the team to go right as planned in order for him to have a successful game, even though he’s the exact reason almost weekly why the game plan gets thrown out the window after two or three offensive possessions.
The turnovers go hand in hand with the offensive output. More offense from Winston equals more turnovers. It’s the ying to the yang. If he throws for 4000 yards he’ll have close to 20 interceptions in this offense. He just can’t process fast enough. According to him though, he’s “ballin”. How many intelligent franchise QB’s walk up to the podium after the last game of the year, after sealing the game with a pick-6, say that?
This guy may have had the grades to get into Stanford, but commonsense wise he’s dumber than a box of rocks. If he wasn’t a football player he might be on the sexual predator watch list.
February 3rd, 2020 at 10:43 am
Even BA said Jameis shouldn’t have thrown that pass to Dare in the first game. It was a screen pass that was sniffed out by the D and Jameis tried to lob it in there. If you want to pick on the RBs mention Ronalds stone hands or inability to pick up a blitzing LB or Byrons insistence on running up the gut again and again and again and again and again (deep breath) and again and again
February 3rd, 2020 at 10:46 am
Can we please stop the Jameis bashing. I don’t give a s… that people keep throwing all the Bucs losses on Jameis. He wasn’t the only reason this team lost last season. The Bucs won 7 games and could have won at least 2 or 3 more so we have improved under Arians that’s what’s important to me winning, and I am willing to bet 4 of my poor pay checks that if the Bucs had won a playoff game, most of the Jameis badgers lips would be sealed
February 3rd, 2020 at 10:49 am
Matthew
After watching it I came away with the same impression as you.
BTW Sorry the link didn’t work. You can see the best or at least the most objective analysis by going to youtube and typing in Jameis Winston conundrum
February 3rd, 2020 at 10:59 am
Sparky,
Different eras of football. Offense is made easier and more conducive by rule changes. Apples to oranges.
And I’m sorry that the turnovers don’t bother you, but they make the offense FOOL’s GOLD. The good is outweighed by bad, literally:
34 TDs for Jameis, and 35 turnovers. Add in 49 interceptable
Balls, 47 sacks, 12 fumbles- only five lost
4.8% INT rate vs 2.3% league average.
Why in the hell are we committing to losing? I don’t care about pints show me wins. I bet Sapp would be all over his QB if they turned it over at that rate.
Wake up and smell the damn losing. Turnovers are the culprit.
Ps. BUC1987- I apologize for for my rant on turnovers today. I understand some fans get tired of hearing them. But they exist and so do all the griffin losses. I can not handle anymore JW3 excuses.
February 3rd, 2020 at 11:00 am
Friggin losses*
February 3rd, 2020 at 11:07 am
There is no one I would trust less with the ball than Jameis. Melvin Gordon comes close, though. He cam out of college end looked worse than RoJo for two years, took him almost a full season to find the end zone. He missed almost every block.
No, free agent running back, draft one in the mid rounds. Hopefully Licht doesn’t get to make the pick. He can’t figure runners out.
February 3rd, 2020 at 11:16 am
ROJO does NOT have stone hands. He catches 77.8 % of passes thrown his way. Better than Melvin Gordon or David Johnson. Do they have stone hands?
February 3rd, 2020 at 11:18 am
Dam, this Jameis debate won’t be over till it’s over and what really pisses me off is I am a typical fan who in no way shape or form possesses the knowledge to make a logical decision on the matter. When the season ended I was hell bent on moving on from Winston. Now the farther we move from 2019 and the more information about available options and the pain of another lost season subsides I am more open to arguments to keep him 1 more year on a short leash. New examples like above and the hundreds of hypothetical excuses that rumble from one analyst to another only confuse the issue. I will say without reservation the Jameis on a good day could have blown the wheels off the two teams I watched last night. While I admit I am not savvy enough at this point to decide his fate, I can imagine him The SB MVP for another team. I would like to see him for one more year with the QB Whisperer, but History tells me he will walk and we will focus on his replacement for the next 5 years.
February 3rd, 2020 at 11:32 am
No to Gordon. Need to concentrate on signing Shaq, JPP, Suh & Nassib. Top priority.
February 3rd, 2020 at 11:34 am
Works for me.
February 3rd, 2020 at 12:03 pm
I’m not interested in Gordon. Over priced, often injured and has probably already played his best football. Let’s draft a RB in round 2.
February 3rd, 2020 at 12:33 pm
Martinii, well said go Bucs
February 3rd, 2020 at 12:43 pm
Steve UOU ARE CORRECT SIR
the Jamies bashing would stop BECAUSE he would be worth talking about keeping
BUT we didn’t go to the playoffs and were pretty much out of it In Oct
So WHY keep a #1 overall pick QB and pay him 30 million for a Hope he gets better
When his STATS are worse this year and HE HAD A BETTER DEFENSE
February 3rd, 2020 at 12:46 pm
“For those that crave information, pride themselves in having open minds and try to practice critical thinking, this is your kinda post“ Joe
You can’t just say what you have to say about JW. You always have to take thinly veiled swipes at those of us who no longer support JW. Yet you’re quick to delete anyone who criticizes you or your stuff.
I LOVED JW. I was so happy when we drafted him. But it’s now obvious to me that he needs to go elsewhere. He was directly responsible for 6 losses last year. That is unacceptable.
It’s not the fault of the receivers, the running backs, the defense, the offensive line, coaching, the wind, or anything else game in and game out. Jameis Winston is the problem.
February 3rd, 2020 at 12:47 pm
Joe having an open mind is a wonderful character trait,however in regard to this
hypothetical solution resolving the persistent QB “Jekyll & Hyde”quandary is a fruitless exercise..Time to smell the coffee ,#3 has a .10cent head…
February 3rd, 2020 at 12:56 pm
So if we keep Jamies for ONE More year
What happens if he Fails??? Then what keep him one more or sign him because he is the best turd out there?
What would be a back up plan Because No One can say they can fix his problems
Can’t draft a rookie and expect He will train him
The BIG PROBLEM is No Matter How much you LOVE Jamies you cant say he gets bettter. YOU HOPE
But his Stats are worse just like college
Move on grab a one two year Vet draft a QB and see if Bruce can make something
LISTEN TO THE COACH He is not sure about Winston that should tell you SOMETHING
February 3rd, 2020 at 1:23 pm
SteveK: “Tired of losing. More tired of excuses.”
Yes! Exactly how I feel. Just want him gone… not because there is a guaranteed better answer… because there MIGHT be a better answer and at least we want have to hear any more “I just gotta play better” nonsense. Besides, a fresh start is the only way Jameis stands a chance of growing some NFL-level gray matter between his ears.
February 3rd, 2020 at 1:27 pm
If only he had a pass-catching RB?! LOL!
That actually does require him to CHECK DOWN you know?!!! Having a RB that can catch and actually being thrown to are not the same.
I mean what else can it be?!
February 3rd, 2020 at 2:01 pm
I hear you Matthew Fifer.
Will Winston ever be reliable? Or will he make the one bone-head decision in the NFC championship game? Worse yet, will he help us get to the Super Bowl and make that bone-head play that makes us go home #2?
Unfortunately the conclusion after five years of watching and hoping for Jameis Winston to ascend to elite status is to the negative. He will continue to have that bone-head play emerge after good stretches of play.
Therefore I am with Hodad and 813buboi. You can’t rely on Jameis Winston. In that sense trust is the issue.
I am counting on BA to have arrived at a similar conclusion and to be “looking behind door number two” and putting “Plan B” in to place during this off season. What form Plan B takes I really don’t know.
February 3rd, 2020 at 2:22 pm
Gordon isn’t that good (admittedly better than what we have though) and certainly isn’t even worth the 10 million per year he turned down (!) last year. Does this guy not know what his career stats are? He’s getting some extremely bad advice and 10 per was a gift from the gods considering what he produces. Pass.
February 3rd, 2020 at 2:22 pm
The excuses are endless and I love the line about open minded people lol
Because we want him gone we aren’t open minded wow
February 3rd, 2020 at 2:26 pm
How bout he’s always going for the big play I’ve seen him overlook open underneath routes to throw deep his whole career when the down and distance
Didn’t dictate for him to do so there is no coaching for him he has to do it himself it’s sad wasting talent
February 3rd, 2020 at 3:23 pm
Think this is a great point. If you can hit a check down and that player turns it into a big play your going to look for it more often.
Adding an RB who can catch the ball is hopefully what they are looking for. Keep hearing fans saying they want a bruising up-the-gut runner. I don’t think that fits this offense. A pass catching back could be the answer.
I think people want a bruiser just cause that’s what they saw in the playoffs with Mostert and Henry…..But we are built totally different then those teams. The 49ers use a full back for crying out loud.
Plus we already got a bruiser with P.Barber. You seen how that works. Watch P.Barber go to one of them team or a similar situation and thrive….. The Bucs need a different type of back then that.
February 3rd, 2020 at 7:23 pm
The babiest fans in the world. See the forest, not the trees. Go Bucs! Queue the “we have a right…” excuse. Go Bucs!
February 3rd, 2020 at 9:26 pm
Still loving your interview with Faulk, “Winston doesn’t throw picks because of the running back. He throws picks because he throws the ball to the other team.”
February 5th, 2020 at 5:51 am
Yes the Bucs need to improve line blocking and run game! Cutting Jameis throws down to 30 attempts instead of 50 may help. But in those 30 attempts he may still find a way to make a couple of boneheaded picks. A lot of his picks didn’t come from pressure in face from lack of running back production. The combination of “bad routes” and him throwing late or inaccurate caused the pick. Hell If he pulled a Jimmy G and only throw 8 times in a game I bet one of those would still be a pick. We can try to help out by running the football but at the end of the day Jameis has to fix Jameis. He has to get that hero out of his game. The I can make every throw and I trust every receiver mentality. The I’m throwing to my first read no matter what mentality. The stare down receiver mentality. B.A can’t fix Jameis at this point. It’s all on Jameis. He has to hate turning the Ball over as much as he hates losing. Develop a passion for not costing the team a ball game by spotting the other team 2 scores. History tells us you are who you are. People don’t wake up a change. It takes time. The 30 million dollar question is has his time ran out?