Winning Double-Teams
January 3rd, 2020
Hard to handle.
This is what the PFF tribe is good for.
Most people bow down to the tribe for their shady grades like a reflex, swallowing their dubious data almost whole.
Joe wouldn’t waste time doing a No. 1 on their grades.
But the stats? Well, at least “this Joe” tries to keep an open mind. And in compiling stats how pass rushers beat double- and triple-teams, this is an example of the tribe pumping out useful information.
And it also tells Joe how valuable Bucs pass rusher Jason Pierre-Paul is.
Per the tribe’s data entry specialists, JPP beat multiple blockers 17.6 percent of the time. That’s 13th best in the NFL. And remember, JPP did this while having no training camp and missing untold months of conditioning while rehabbing his fractured neck in the offseason.
Pretty impressive to Joe.
And it also shows how important JPP is to Shaq Barrett’s success. Barrett had told Joe that beginning with the first Slimy Saints game and really kicking into high gear the following week against the Stinking Panthers in London, coverages on him were ones he’d never seen before. He said virtually every play he was double- or triple-teamed.
That Slimy Saints game in New Orleans began a four-game stretch where Shaq had only 1.5 sacks.
All that changed immediately when JPP was activated.
Also interesting here, and the stats sort of back up Shaq’s words, is that the NFL’s sack leader is not on this list for beating multiple blockers. The No. 2 guy in sacks in the NFL in 2019, Chandler Jones, is on this list.
This just reinforces to Joe that it is Shaq, not Jameis Wintson, who should be franchised. Joe isn’t fully convinced Shaq didn’t just have a freak season. The fact Shaq said he struggled with multiple blockers, and he’s not included in the list below of top guys beating multiple blockers, might be a tip that Shaq needs help from his teammates to be a gamewrecker.
There’s no doubt about it though, the Bucs need to keep JPP.
January 3rd, 2020 at 12:11 am
Even though Shaq had that monster start to the season, our overall pressure from the d-line was EXTREMELY inconsistent.
It started to becoming more consistent as soon as JPP came back (his 2nd game I believe actually). Then we finally let go of VH3 and the secondary started playing solid too.
IMO- Shaq, JPP and Suh are all integral pieces that need to come back in order to keep the momentum and improvement building into next season.
Figure it out Jason.
January 3rd, 2020 at 12:50 am
Wow, giving credit where it is due – this is some of the most efficient & credible research I’ve personally seen come from either Joe on this site. Sound logic & very nuanced, yet appropriate stats to depict how effective a guy is. The angle it takes for (or against) Shaq Barrett is very interesting. Granted, I still believe Shaq is one of the most polished and gifted pass rushers on the planet just based on the eye test and his skillset, but still. Really makes you think about the Bucs front 7 as a whole.
I think they can bring back the entire front 7 for around 35-40 mil. 10-12 for JPP (invaluable leadership & clearly effective when game planned for), 14.5 for the Shaq master since he’s in his prime and uber talented, Suh for 8 and Nassib for 6.5 should get it done. Couple that with Anthony Nelson showing some real ability throughout this year, bringing back Gholston for a similar price & them all wanting to stay together in the same scheme it should allow the Bucs enough room to both extend Winston to a pretty team friendly deal & pursue a top flight safety and/or offensive lineman. All while still allowing almost the ENTIRE defense to gel for another whole year.
Could get scary for the NFC South if the Bucs can add a rock solid running game.
January 3rd, 2020 at 1:05 am
I think they resign these guys and maybe draft another outside linebacker for depth, add a safety and address the right side of the offensive line. We need a true replacement for Mankins and Dotson. Our run game has been off since Mankins left.
If we do that bring in a cheap veteran qb and we are going to win and go deep into the playoffs next year. We are very close. Go Bucs!!!
January 3rd, 2020 at 1:08 am
PriMech54:
Thank you!
January 3rd, 2020 at 3:19 am
Maybe that’s the secret formula. Maybe you need a bookend pair to complement each other so teams are forced to pick their poison. Double one and get exploited by the other. Then still having to deal with Suh, Vea, Gholston, David, and White in the middle.
This is why BA wants to keep this front seven in tact.
January 3rd, 2020 at 3:42 am
Kudos Joe, great thought-provoking article. Like PriMech34, I also believe that Shaq is the real deal. Not JUST because he led the NFL in sacks, but because of the rest of his PERFORMANCE this year. QB Hits – 37. TFLs – 19. Forced Fumbles – 6. INTs – 1. Passes Defensed – 6. Tackles – 57 Combined (45 Solo). Shaq not only led the Bucs in most categories, but he also proved himself to be a COMPLETE PLAYER against the pass AND the run.
And yet I’m convinced that he’s a product of ‘the system’. Todd Bowles ‘system’. TB obviously knows how to build a defensive TEAM and create situations that allow the various talents to feed, and feed well. Without Suh & Vea in the middle commanding attention themselves, Shaq wouldn’t have been as productive. Without JPP on the other side commanding attention, the same is true. And then of course the offense has to worry about ‘little guys’ like LVD & White blitzing all over the place. This defense is so cool to watch.
And TB’s defense is just coming into its own IMO. It was exceptionally good at the end of the year, but it can be even better I think, IF we don’t screw it up & start replacing the beasts who made it work in the first place … JPP, Suh & Shaq. Keep the band together, but keep selectively adding new parts who can learn from them & one day fill their shoes. Drafting a high-round DT or DE or OLB this year is a necessity.
January 3rd, 2020 at 4:28 am
Vinny curry? Really? Vinny curry? That just pisses me off to see that. Where was that effort when he was in a Bucs uniform?
January 3rd, 2020 at 6:37 am
I can’t argue with that 🙂
January 3rd, 2020 at 6:54 am
Any idea where Shaq ranked, or does the list only go to 20? Also what would the tag cost for Shaq and when can the Bucs officially start resigning their own free agents? I believe like most they need to bring back JPP, Barrett and Suh
January 3rd, 2020 at 6:58 am
Oh absolutely!! JPP/Shaq > Jameis
January 3rd, 2020 at 7:08 am
@Evo2706…..lol, i thought the same thing.
January 3rd, 2020 at 7:12 am
Defense Rules.. we still need secondary help. The safeties are not athletic enough. MJ Stewart gives his all, but he is not athletic enough, the same with Mike Edwards. The dbs also have been injury prone, the BPA is probably going to be a WR, so we will probably end up trading back for a second or third.
January 3rd, 2020 at 8:06 am
Would really like to see Kinlaw added to the mix.
January 3rd, 2020 at 8:31 am
Bucs won’t pick a safety with both Dixon and Evans coming back from injuries. If they do draft a S, it will be on day 3. D-Line in the 1st rd, RT in 2nd, then an RB.
Re-sign most of D-Line, but keep conscious of money. We can’t overpay for Suh and Nassib. Same for Perriman, JW. This is the year you can pick up a very good #3 or 4 receiver on day 3.
Don’t re-sign Datson or Barber; we need to look at other backups on O-Line, RB and special teams to determine who we should pay/keep. Keep Braite (proven performance & chemistry with JW) and trade OJ for a 2nd and 4th. Look for a good CB, blocking TE and depth in FA.
January 3rd, 2020 at 9:05 am
I love Brown from Auburn, but he’ll be long gone when the Bucs pick. Kinlaw from SC or a DE is the pick if he”s there. Maybe, DE Epenesa from Iowa.
I would be OK with a top O-Line pick such as Wirfs from Iowa, Wills from Bama or Jackson from USC. Thomas from UGA will be a top 5 pick.
Does anyone believe the Bucs trade back and pick an RB, Swift from UGA or Taylor from Wisconsin, as a wild card? I doubt it, but it’s a possibility if the Bucs could get multiple 2nd/3rd round picks. Potential teams looking to move up with multiple picks are Chicago, Oakland, Miami and maybe even New England.
There’s also the possibility of a team that really wants a particular player (QB – Heibert or maybe Eason) and overpays in a bold trade, such as Atlanta did with Julio Jones when it traded it’s 1st, 2nd and 4th for that year and 1st and 4th for the following year to move up 21 spots for Cleveland’s 1st.
January 3rd, 2020 at 9:11 am
Is there a way we should re sign JPP, Shaq and then make a move for Ngakoue then we should do it like the 49ers threw a ton of money of their dline and now theyre 13-3 in the playoffs
January 3rd, 2020 at 9:22 am
Vinnie Curry? The guy who got away?
January 3rd, 2020 at 9:22 am
Justtafan … Agree the our Secondary needs more help, but we’re caught in a Catch-22 this year. We can’t afford to spend high draft picks to bolster our Secondary, not can we afford high-priced FAs for back there. I’m not particularly impressed with MJ Stewart, but as a depth player (Davis, Dean, SMB starting) along with Ryan Smith that may be all we can afford.
Mike Edwards is a different story IMO. He started at Safety to begin the year, but had some very rough games IMO. They moved him for a bit to Nickel, then he played some more Safety it appears. He may that type of ‘swing player’ whose versatility gets him a lot of playing time. But that’s why I think we still need to sign a veteran starter-capable Safety this off-season. I’d also re-sign Andrew Adams … he’s not a standout Safety, but he’s served us very well as a depth player IMO.
Bucs Guy … I’m not counting on Justin Evans making it back. It’d sure be nice if he does because I liked his play, but he’s been laid up now for a long time. Agree with you about ‘not over-paying’ BUT … replacing Suh ‘on the cheap’ ain’t gonna happen. Folks forget that Ndamukong Suh was a high 1st Round pick and he’s still playing at an elite level. Same with JPP. BOTH of them stay on the field more than any DLinemen I can think of. They’re mountain men, and those are really hard to replace.
I think that Barrett’s worth around $16 mil on a 3-4 year deal. JPP could command anywhere from about $11 – $13 mil annually IMO on a 2-year deal. Suh (IF he doesn’t opt to retire) would probably command in the $9-$10 mil range annually on a 2-year deal. Nassib would probably be in the $6-$7 mil range is my best guess (and that’s all it is). I’d also re-sign Nunez-Roches, keep Gholston, not re-sign Allen but replace him with a high draft pick DT or DE (to groom as Suh’s or JPP’s replacement down the line). Also re-sign Minter, Adams, Ryan Smith, plus sign a starter-capable veteran Safety.
January 3rd, 2020 at 9:32 am
Vinny Curry at 5 and JPP at 13. Mike Smith had them both last season and couldn’t figure out how to put pressure on QB’s.
January 3rd, 2020 at 10:14 am
I’ve already said this, Joe
But wait, there is a far more important and revealing number here. Despite only playing 10 games, but really only getting 7-8 games worth of snaps. JPP still faced 108 double team blocks. NOBODY came anywhere close to twice as many double teams despite most of these guys being on the field twice as much as JPP. Maybe it won’t be true at the negotiating table or in his contract but I think JPP is probably still our best and most respected/feared pass rusher.
January 3rd, 2020 at 10:32 am
Only top-20, unless you want to buy their stats.
January 3rd, 2020 at 12:22 pm
BA says he wants this defense back. A full year of JPP, a more developed Devin White, and a still very young secondary that could use a veteran leader in that locker room for all those kids to rally behind. I agree with Joe here…. this is more important to focus on this offseason than Winston.
January 3rd, 2020 at 3:03 pm
Vinny Currie , Interesting !!
January 3rd, 2020 at 3:26 pm
also not on that list is JBF mancrush Ngakoue, making a Yannick\Barrett fantasy pairing problematic scheme-wise in addition to cap-wise. the bucs should not mess with this formula….they have the right combination of mindset and skillset for their front seven, and neither Suh nor JPP seems to be in danger of some physical decline next year. Bring in their successors through the draft or young vets with upside like Barrett\Nassib\Nacho, but your 2020 starters in the front 7 should be the same as your 2019 starters….could live without one of Nassib or Gholston but they were more rotatational than true starters by the end.