The Jameis/Philip Rivers Debate
January 3rd, 2020
Who would you rather have starting at quarterback for the Buccaneers next season, 38-year-old Philip Rivers (4,615 yards this season) or 26-year-old Jameis Winston (5,109 yards)?
It’s an interesting debate. Rivers is one of the most durable quarterbacks in NFL history. The eight-time Pro Bowler hasn’t missed a regular-season start since he got the full-time job with the Chargers in 2006.
He, too, has a gunslinger mentality and has thrown a lot of interceptions, but at nowhere near the rate of Jameis.
A year ago, Rivers was beating the Ravens in the playoffs after a stunning season that saw him throw 32 touchdowns against just 12 interceptions. This year, Rivers had 23 TDs and 20 interceptions. (No, Joe has no word on how many picks were Rivers’ fault.) So it’s easy to say Rivers is washed up, but there’s not much evidence.
Jameis, of course, had the historic 2019 production and interception totals. And, presumably, he should be very comfortable in the Bucs offense in 2020. Obviously, Jameis has a brighter future than Rivers, but this post is about the now.
Rivers might land on the open market since the Chargers are considering an overhaul. He wouldn’t command a ton of money as an older QB coming off an unspectacular season.
It’s a fun debate, and one that was attacked by the Good Morning Football crew on NFL Network. Former stud running back Maurice Jones-Drew was appalled that anyone would consider Rivers over Jameis. But that wasn’t the consensus from the panel.
Enjoy the chatter below.
January 3rd, 2020 at 2:28 pm
The only way I see Rivers coming here is if we draft a QB. Rivers isn’t a long term solution, that’s a band aid.
January 3rd, 2020 at 2:30 pm
If those are my only two options I pick Winston.
January 3rd, 2020 at 2:33 pm
You could probably get Rivers and Melvin Gordon for what Winston wants. Then draft a guy like Eason, who also has that gun slinger mentality to learn from Rivers/Arians for a year or two.
Rivers, Gordon and Eason > Winston
January 3rd, 2020 at 2:34 pm
Jameis should be familiar with the offense? Let’s see, in the first 8 games this year he threw 16td, 12int, 2407 yrds. The lady 8 games where we should have seen improvement as we won games, 17td, 18int, 2704 yrds. So more picks down the stretch than tds doesn’t really sound like improvement.
January 3rd, 2020 at 2:35 pm
I would really love to see Phillip Rivers,
But I pick JW
Rivers or Brady would be the only others I would eagerly tune in for
January 3rd, 2020 at 2:36 pm
It’s difficult to decide without knowing the money……we sort of know $27 million for Jameis……perhaps $15 million for Rivers….that leaves $12 for a couple of pretty good players…
January 3rd, 2020 at 2:38 pm
Absolutely take rivers. Even on a bad year he’s better than Jameis. And no Jameis future isnt “brighter” i doubt jameis has the chance to make the hall of fame like rivers possibly will.
January 3rd, 2020 at 2:38 pm
Played terrible teams down the stretch.
January 3rd, 2020 at 2:39 pm
I just can’t see rivers up and moving his wife and 30 kids to anywhere to play. If he’s moving, he’s retiring and buying a house in his home state. Just my opinion tho
January 3rd, 2020 at 2:40 pm
Arians also likes veteran quarterback. He did a lot with Carson palmer who some thought was washed up.
January 3rd, 2020 at 2:46 pm
RIVERS > JAYMISS
January 3rd, 2020 at 2:49 pm
That’s the stupidest question. Young strong armed Jameis or that wooden Indian, slack armed, oldtimer?
January 3rd, 2020 at 2:51 pm
Today as we sit? I’d take Jameis throwing the ball and Rivers talking smack to the other teams. Love his wwe style sht talk
Ten years ago Rivers vs today’s Jameis, I’d take Rivers all day
January 3rd, 2020 at 2:53 pm
Talk about a delivery. Rivers delivery is worse than JW and Rivers boldly said he dont care about interceptions. He will continue to do it. I’ll wait for the double standard responses
January 3rd, 2020 at 2:54 pm
Jameis is a gold mine for JBF.com…LOL…here comes bold black text arguing otherwise
January 3rd, 2020 at 2:55 pm
I chose wins over a circus show and loses so RIVERS (absolutely no doubt) all day for the win…
If Arians is as good a QB coach as he is respected to be, I’d love to see what he can do with:
Derek Carr
Andy Dalton
Marcus Mariota
or older bridge qbs
Philip Rivers
Joe Flacco
JW has proven to be uncoachable a detriment to coaches resumes… he will soon be easily forgotten like so many past Bucs qb.
January 3rd, 2020 at 2:56 pm
Interesting debate? Aw come on Joe. This is the classic comparison of 2 anythings with nothing in common. A 38-year-old versus a 25-year-old? 32 TDs/12 INTs versus 33 TDs/30 INTs? Or should it be 23 TDs/20 INTs versus 33 TDs/30 INTs? How about money? Do you think BOTH will get paid the same in 2020? Nope, no common ground to make them ‘comparable’ for the purposes of comparison.
Now if you want to REALLY do some comparisons (age, etc), let’s compare Jameis to Derek Carr (28), who more & more sources seem to be saying Gruden would love to move on from. This season he was 7-9 (comparable). Threw for 70.4% completion rate, 21 TDs against 8 INTs on a team with meh receivers. Career 39-55 record with 1 winning season in Oakland. Yup, that might work as a comparison.
Or maybe Ryan Tannehill (31) who’s now a UFA. This season he went 7-3 for the 9-7 Titans, throwing for 70.3% completion rate, 22 TDs with 6 INTs (in 10 games). Break even (49-49) over his career as a starter with Dolphins & Titans. Oops, unfair comparison. My bad.
January 3rd, 2020 at 2:57 pm
I’d imagine there is no way Rivers and his huge family want to switch coasts at this point.
January 3rd, 2020 at 2:59 pm
Carr
January 3rd, 2020 at 3:01 pm
Winston is only 25 yrs old I refuse to give up on a QB that COULD be around for the next 15 years.
January 3rd, 2020 at 3:01 pm
If Jameis isn’t our QB (he will be) then I want Rivers!
I’ve always respected River’s accuracy and ability to take a huge shot and still deliver a dime. A trait that would be valuable and necessary in this offense.
January 3rd, 2020 at 3:01 pm
Let the QB whisperer try his magic with Mariota at 1/2 the cost and no baggage ( one more strike and Jameis is out!)
January 3rd, 2020 at 3:03 pm
So Tye will take ANY other white QB, got it.
January 3rd, 2020 at 3:04 pm
I would take rivers any day over Winston but only if it was a 2 year deal as a stop gap to draft someone. We will be having this same discussion same time next year if we keep Winston.
January 3rd, 2020 at 3:07 pm
Longevity doesn’t equal results.
Potential impact isn’t real known impact.
Jameis shouldn’t be Leo on potential. But rather, view this hear with the QB Whisperer. In a contract year, he went off: for good and outright horrible.
I’d take Rivers and a draft pick, slotting $15-$17 million in cap space for QBs. We could use the savings towards retaining the monstrous front seven.
January 3rd, 2020 at 3:10 pm
Jameis supporters suffer from beaten wife syndrome
January 3rd, 2020 at 3:10 pm
If Arians does want to win now then he would want somebody like Rivers.
If you are looking forward to the future, then draft your QB.
Both equations are better than keeping Winston, who Arians now knows he can’t win with.
Personally, I would like to see what is behind door #3
January 3rd, 2020 at 3:20 pm
Not that I’ve watched a lot of Chargers games, but the few taped ones I’ve seen on NFL Network lead me to believe that there ain’t much left in the tank with Rivers. From what I saw out of Rivers 2019 (Father Time caught up?) and Winston 2019 (5 years in and still making some questionable reads?)…neither guy is likely going to get a team in position to be playing in a Super Bowl. If Arians thinks Jameis can be salvaged and the price is palatable then I guess I’d give a slight nod to the incumbent?
January 3rd, 2020 at 3:20 pm
conte: take out the games without evans and godwin.
January 3rd, 2020 at 3:26 pm
How in the F does TJ Watt make 1st team all-pro over shaq barrett? Bullsh*t!!!
January 3rd, 2020 at 3:29 pm
Yeah let’s swap the the 26 year old with 10+ years worth of play left in the tank for a 1-2 year rental!
January 3rd, 2020 at 3:40 pm
You better shore up your OL if you take Rivers. Jameis looks like Mike Vick running compared to Rivers.
January 3rd, 2020 at 3:45 pm
No contest, Rivers with our receiving core would be a dream
combo, JW will not have 15 years, next indiscretion he will
be out of the nfl, Rivers with a draft pick at 14 to sit behind him and learn, money saved to retain defense and team led by a
mature mind !
January 3rd, 2020 at 3:48 pm
I’m not sure if Rivers would even want to come to Tampa. I think he has nine children with his wife and well established and entrenched in southern California. If he is done with the Chargers it would not surprise me if he retired.
January 3rd, 2020 at 3:54 pm
Jameis. Not close
January 3rd, 2020 at 3:57 pm
Rivers, Gordon and Eason > Winston
Wow…yeah I’d take that in a heartbeat doubt it’s available and affordable.
And to the guy pointing out Rivers probably wouldn’t wish to drag his huge brood across country. He could always commute or find perhaps another solution.
As far as retirement…his last presser he not only made it clear he wants to continue playing he feels the need to play better.
Unlike JW…Rivers admitted he had an off year. He also admitted doing too much and trying to many low% throws trying to save the Chargers bacon. He sounded as if he felt he took one for the team.
This is the BEST opportunity for Rivers short of staying with his old team for comfort. The very best receivers in the league…two good tight ends…and OL that while mediocre in run blocking was decent in pass pro…especially for someone like Rivers who doesn’t need five seconds to make up his mind and cut the pass loose.
Imagine a QB who realizes throwing too many low % passes is not good in the NFL as opposed to a QB whose entire career has been predicated on LOW% passes…hence his horrid int record.
January 3rd, 2020 at 4:01 pm
Jameis, with Gordon in the backfield, the Charger would take that in a second. Now you put a 30 year old Quarterback behind this line with no running back, see you on IR.
January 3rd, 2020 at 4:04 pm
Rivers is not coming here. Would take to much to move his gigantic family across the gulf.
January 3rd, 2020 at 4:05 pm
jameis, luck or stafford…that’s it
January 3rd, 2020 at 4:06 pm
Rather have Dalton or Bridgewater.
January 3rd, 2020 at 4:08 pm
Ncbucfans
Because Shaq Barret and rest of the Bucs is NOT that good. Only good player we have is JW that’s why the nation only talks about him pertaining the Bucs
January 3rd, 2020 at 4:32 pm
My goodness you people are so CLUELESS.
January 3rd, 2020 at 4:36 pm
“Kill 2 birds with 1 stone
Replace Rivers with Jameis and
fillup the stadium with all of Philip Rivers Kids?”
Kobe Faker
January 3rd, 2020 at 4:39 pm
Only good player we have is JW? LMAO. These Winston D riders not only showing how stupid they are but how delusional they are as well.
January 3rd, 2020 at 4:51 pm
I pick JW any day
January 3rd, 2020 at 4:55 pm
Makes sense rivers but for what … 1-2 yrs and then what ? Start again. Or sign Phillip 20m then draft a qb and pay 3-4 M to sit.
Best choice imo outside jameis is teddy. But teddy won’t be pushing the ball down the field. Conservative offense.
Jameis for 25m a yr 3 yrs 90m and incentives to making him earn close to 30m a year Is the way imo. With 2 yr guarantee and 3rd none.
By the end of this month decision should be completed and there will be a info leak.
January 3rd, 2020 at 5:00 pm
Big Ben. Andrew luck. Peyton. Carson all push the offense aggressive. 1st year multiple int. The question is can jameis rebound second year like the others. Bruce will evaluate all the int. But at the same time will look at what can he do to make other players eliminate mistakes. So it’s a group in whole to evaluate. The supportive cast has to be good around jameis.
January 3rd, 2020 at 5:03 pm
Ardnagy,
Good point. We need better QB play: less mistakes. The astronomical amount of turnovers committed by Jameis make the mistakes of others that much worse.
Hard to have an accountable team when the QB lacks an appreciation for ball security.
January 3rd, 2020 at 5:05 pm
this is the dumbest debate ever. Might as well compare Winston to Flash Gordon. Rivers has no interest in leaving San Diego he’s got about 100 kids and owns a ton of land. No way will the Buccaneers offer him enough money to come all the way to Tampa and not be around his family. Buccaneers would be better off with a younger prospect and there will be plenty in free agency and the draft
January 3rd, 2020 at 5:06 pm
“My goodness you people are so CLUELESS.”
NDOG have you sold your soul to JW. These are simply opinions except when they come from you and then the great blog football genius can speak to us with HIS “facts” errr excuses and his pontifications are sooo much better than ours.
I used to respect you but this obnoxious apology/excuse tour telling us daily how stupid we are about football because we believe five years is long enough for a freaking #1 draft pick.
When you can show me the wins…not in your fevered mind full of excuses but in reality then we can talk about your football brilliance.
Assuming you’ve loved JW from the beginning..FSU fan? Here is what your football brilliance has brought us.
The RECORD SETTING TURNOVER KING. A true loser…28-42….oh but we dullards are morons for DARING to question the greatest QB to ever play.
Jameis has been a DISASTER for this franchise….simple minded moves like hanging with a convicted rapist…blind drunk…until 3AM..the first off season after buying his way out of a rape charge…innocent or guilty woudn;t you be smart enough than hang drunk with a convicted rapist…same crime you were alleged to have committed…I don’t even care if he groped the girl (I do but I’m giving the benefit of the doubt,) He pretty much singlehandedly torpedoed 2018 with a three game suspension.
Guys like you convinced me JW was just immature…he’s also thick as a brick and makes horrible decisions ON and off the field
This franchise will remain in turmoil until we unload….dare I steal tmax’s description…the cancer!
I don’t care if he goes somewhere and wins an SB….at least the circus will finally leave town. I’m just totally worn out by all the freaking drama!
January 3rd, 2020 at 5:07 pm
draft pick please instead of either
there are other options than Winston and Rivers
January 3rd, 2020 at 5:10 pm
I’d keep Jameis for a year and draft his replacement in 2020 for when he inevitably fails again. If Rivers were 5 years younger I’d do it, but I think that Jameis gives us a better chance to win next year.
January 3rd, 2020 at 5:11 pm
Jameis, who I believe will be better with ball security in 2020.
January 3rd, 2020 at 5:13 pm
Now, lets also throw a healthy Alex Smith into the mix
January 3rd, 2020 at 5:18 pm
Who has the better record over the last 5 seasons?
My money is on Rivers.
Peace, out
January 3rd, 2020 at 5:36 pm
Ok Danr, take out the last 3 games because all world wide receiver trio of Mike Evans, Chris Godwin and Scotty Miller were out. JW threw 10tds, and 11ints in the second half of the season. It’s probably fair to also remember he had a broken thumb those games as well, so let’s not count my them. Fact is his numbers didn’t improve through the season. He had 3 multiple int games in the first 8 and a whopping 4 multiple int games in the 5 games until losing his top receivers. That isn’t trending in the right direction. Astoundingly, we won 4 of those five games because the defense DID IMPROVE through the season and overcame the run-over and finished the year giving up an average of 316 yrds a game and created 15 turnovers in the final 8 games.
January 3rd, 2020 at 5:41 pm
swap out jameis for mr magoo…
simple
January 3rd, 2020 at 5:42 pm
also forget that jordan love kid
January 3rd, 2020 at 5:44 pm
Comparable stats (2015-2019)
• Philip Rivers || Games: **80 || Record: 35-45-0←
• Matthew Stafford || Games: 72 || Record: 34-37-1
• Jameis Winston || Games: 72 || Record: 28-42-0
Passing Completions || Attempts || Completion
• Philip Rivers || Cmp: 1883 || Att: **2913 || 64.6
• Matthew Stafford || Cmp: 1711 || Att: 2597 || 65.9←
• Jameis Winston || Cmp: 1563 || Att: 2548 || 61.3
Yards || Y/A || Touchdowns
• Philip Rivers || Yds: **22616 || Y/A: **7.8 || TD: **145 ←
• Matthew Stafford || Yds: 19311 || Y/A: 7.4 || 125
• Jameis Winston || Yds: 19737 || Y/A: 7.7 || 121
Sacks || Interceptions || Interceptions || Fumbles Lost
• Philip Rivers -Sacks: **160 || Int: 76 || Fmb: 12←
• Matthew Stafford -Sacks: 186 || Int: 49 || Fmb: 18
• Jameis Winston -Sacks: 169 || Int: 88 || Fmb: 23
January 3rd, 2020 at 5:45 pm
Sacks || Interceptions || Fumbles Lost
January 3rd, 2020 at 5:52 pm
16 Game Average (2015-2019)
• Philip Rivers – Yds: 4523 || TD: 29 || Int: 15 || FL: 0.20 <–
• Matthew Stafford – Yds: 4291 || TD: 28 || Int: 11 || FL: 0.30
• Jameis Winston – Yds: 4399 || TD: 27 || Int: 20 || FL: 0.30
January 3rd, 2020 at 5:54 pm
Jameis…If for no other reason than Rivers (at 38/39) looks like a shell of his former self & JW3 still has room for growth.
January 3rd, 2020 at 5:58 pm
I LOVE Rivers – dude is uber-competitive and generally super accurate, especially with his strange throwing motion. I am a JW fan; however I vote for a Bucs/JW separation for success of both parties. Fans hate JW, and JW needs a fresh start somewhere, even if holding a clipboard for a while. Rivers could be awesome with ME13/Godwin tandem. But JW haters, remember that Rivers has had some awesome RB’s during his San Diego tenure, ala LaDanian T. And still did not win deep into playoffs. Bucs will HAVE to draft a stud RB for Rivers….
No matter – I would welcome Rivers….and again, believe Bucs/JW separation is best for all. JMHO
January 3rd, 2020 at 6:01 pm
SPBF
I love it when you take the gloves off!
ndog is an idiot…… FACT!
January 3rd, 2020 at 6:11 pm
Many fans on this site dare to believe that we can have a better QB than Jameis Winston. Some just won’t.
Some people want to compare Jameis Winston to Peyton Manning because of stats from when Peyton Manning just got into the league. The most important difference between Peyton Manning and Jameis Winston is the recognition. Peyton Manning revolutionized how quarterbacks were supposed to play. His command at the line of scrimmage was 2nd to none. He went to the line, reviewed the defense and then called out the play based upon the defense.
Manning played for 5 coaches and went to the playoffs with all 5. He was successful with Edgerrin James and he was successful when his leading rusher got under 500 yards in a season.
I dream of a better QB than Jameis Winston?
If that happens to be a rookie we draft or Philip Rivers or Teddy Bridgewater or Derek Carr I would rather be great then inconsistent.
January 3rd, 2020 at 6:12 pm
Thx Doosh…enough is enough eh? LMAO
Big THX to Luv for providing that research. D.R. Lord C and apologies to the many I leave out also do a great job of research and sharing.
Might just be me but IMO the guys who provide us with the best research also are the best posters in terms of opinions because they operate with FACTS.
January 3rd, 2020 at 6:13 pm
Funny how people would dump a 30 TD QB for an old washed up QB in Philip Rivers who would have absolutely ZERO passion or desire to play for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
Teddy Bridewater
Andy Dalton
Philip Rivers
This is not a good list people, if you want a change at QB that bad…..The logical reason would be to franchise tag Jameis and draft a QB in the 3+ rounds and develop him.
January 3rd, 2020 at 6:16 pm
Thank U! St.Pete
January 3rd, 2020 at 6:16 pm
I knew I shouldn’t name names about who does our best research…because I left out one of my faves…Tickdr….and his facts always presented rather tongue in cheek….some humorous jabs in there.
January 3rd, 2020 at 6:22 pm
“Who would you rather have starting at quarterback for the Buccaneers next season, 38-year-old Philip Rivers (4,615 yards this season) or 26-year-old Jameis Winston (5,109 yards)?” This is the type of stupid question July Joe/Jameis 1 of 1 would ask. Totally stupid choice to offer. Irellevant. It is not yards in a season, but bang for the buck…and over the long haul. Rivers have proven himself to lead, win, and be resilient. Winston has proven to throw too many picks, blame, and get suspended…to hurt his team. Both are clearly not the answer long term. Which one gives the Bucs hope for short term (year or two), who can bring along a QB of the future? Which one is more consistent? Which one is more than likely to bring Bucs fans disgusted with all things Winston back?
Phillip Rivers. Go get him
January 3rd, 2020 at 6:27 pm
The Bucs would overpay for Dalton since he’s still under contract. Bridgewater isn’t going to get released by the Saints…get that our of your heads folks.
Rivers doesn’t have anything to prove, can walk right now from the Chargers, woudld fit in well with BA’s system, would actually give fans who have no confidient in Winston (rightfully so) hope to come back or keep the season passes. Rivers would be affordable for less than even a franchise tag…not that Winston would be worthy of that. He’s not…and not worth it either. Rivers would probably be fine with three years, $66 million, $40 million guaranteed.
January 3rd, 2020 at 6:28 pm
Stpete
So when you call Jameis Winston a “true loser” apparently you don’t wanna apply facts to the FACT that the Bucs have had a historically bad pass defense throughout Jameis entire career.
Here’s a couple facts for you:
2019 Bucs Defense= 4th Most Points Given Up
2018 Bucs Defense= 2d Most Points given up
Anyone who watches the Bucs without obvious bias against the QB knows that the Bucs offense has NOT been the problem throughout Jameis entire career but it’s been Jason Lichts utter failure to build a competent defense year in year out.
Here’s a fun game: Name 1 team in the 2019 NFL playoffs that doesn’t have a good defense. Just 1.
January 3rd, 2020 at 6:35 pm
Mr Reality
So your gonna dump a 25 year old QB who was just #1 in passing touchdowns and #1 in passing yards for 2 years of average QB play from 38 year old year old who’s not in anyway invested in the franchise?
That’s stupid my friend.
January 3rd, 2020 at 6:48 pm
Like I’ve stated….I could go either way….I’m OK with the non-exclusive franchise tag for Jameis @ 27 mil….I would also be OK with a cheap vet & draft pick combo.
It makes no sense to me to bring in a 35 plus vet at big bucks….
It is my hope that Jameis would negotiate a team friendly deal around $23 mil…perhaps for 2 years…..
He may value himself more than that but he certainly isn’t worth more based on performance. He should be grateful for $20 plus million.
We need the money for other players (mostly to support his inconsistency & turnovers) In order for us to win everything else must be right.
January 3rd, 2020 at 6:49 pm
$23 mil per year….
January 3rd, 2020 at 6:50 pm
2019 bucs gave up 449 points, 49 of them directly from pick 6s, if you apply a very lenient 45 points for the other 35 JW turnovers, the defense ranks 14th. It’s called complimentary football. Interesting how stats can be misleading
January 3rd, 2020 at 7:04 pm
^
449-49= 404 which is still bottom 10 in the NFL.
January 3rd, 2020 at 7:26 pm
449-49= 404 which is still bottom 10 in the NFL.
__________
Yeah……but all of those points were SO ENTERTAINING!
That’s what it’s all about right Nuthuggers?
January 3rd, 2020 at 7:27 pm
If you want to actually win, you gotta move on from Jameis. We need a QB that doesn’t turn the ball over. There are plenty of serviceable FAs. We could save money on one of them, trade Brate and Howard, and spend the money on the lines, maybe bring in Melvin Gordon.
January 3rd, 2020 at 7:30 pm
Some nit wit above who Luvs the Bucs comparing a 34 year old QB (River’s in 2015) and a 27 year old QB (Stafford in 2015) to a 21 year old QB (Winston in 2015).
#stillthestupiestfanbaseinfootball
January 3rd, 2020 at 7:31 pm
The 49 points were just from pick-6s. Winston conveniently handed the ball to the opposing team on our side of the field many times. Didn’t turnovers give the Falcons 17 points just a week ago?
January 3rd, 2020 at 7:37 pm
Mr. Magoo /how would you know about that kind of syndrome!?? FAMOUS is the future here sign him and let’s keep getting better …GET YOUR GRIND ON FAMOUS….MONEY IS COMING YOUR WAY!!
January 3rd, 2020 at 7:41 pm
Rivers isn’t washed up…he’s too old.
At 39 (as of today) he is a year younger than Brady, who might play one more year, but more likely will retire. Both are old for their jobs.
January 3rd, 2020 at 7:50 pm
BrianBucs Says:
January 3rd, 2020 at 3:10 pm
If Arians does want to win now then he would want somebody like Rivers.
If you are looking forward to the future, then draft your QB.
Or you do both if a guy such as Hurts is still available in rounds 2 or 3.
January 3rd, 2020 at 7:58 pm
Rk Player Team Comp Att Pct Yds TD Int
1 Jameis Winston TB 380 626 60.7 5,109 33 30
2 Dak Prescott DAL 388 596 65.1 4,902 30 11
3 Jared Goff LA 394 626 62.9 4,638 22 16
4 Philip Rivers LAC 390 591 66.0 4,615 23 20
5 Matt Ryan ATL 408 616 66.2 4,466 26 14
These are the top 5 quarterbacks who lead the NFL in passing yards this season and not a single one made the playoffs or had a winning record.
So what’s more important in the end?
All the yards? or protecting the football?
January 3rd, 2020 at 8:05 pm
Stpete you’re worn out cause you are mentally weak and can’t see things for yourself. You have been brainwashed which happens to those that are mentally weak. I don’t mean to be insulting but it’s true. You just repeat the same things the media says over and over cause you have nothing better. Like oh he’s a loser, well like we have literally anything good on this team but the passing game. But see to you that doesn’t matter cause you are told by some dude on the radio who knows less than the freaking local lunch room lady that we lose because of the QB. That is what all the CLUELESS say so congrats brother you are officially a member of the CLUELESS along with the greats like Doosh, SteveK and many esteemed posters who say completely idiotic stuff daily. You guys are great. Maybe one day you guys can have a CLUELESS convention and have a middle school football waterboy come teach you the game cause man oh man you sure could use it. Have a great night and one last thing, I will still be if Jameis leaves but will you be here if he stays?
January 3rd, 2020 at 8:11 pm
Tbbucs3 give up bro they A don’t know football and B have so much hate for our QB they WILL NOT see the good or be realistic about what has happened here. They think the defense is great, Gay is the best and Barber is an elite back. To them the one thing holding this great franchise back is the QB. But it’s ok when we starting winning with whoever is here I will be happy and they will still be miserable people blaming somebody for something cause they were told to by somebody.
January 3rd, 2020 at 8:13 pm
Doesn’t appear that very many JBFers are taking the Winston/Rivers ‘Debate’ very seriously Joe. Nor should they. But one thing we all need to keep in mind is that at this present time, Bucs have 1 QB under contract – Ryan Griffin. Both Jameis Winston & Blaine Gabbert are free agents.
So the FACT is that SOMETHING has to be done over the next 4 months. Bucs have a myriad of options, ranging from franchising Jameis or re-signing him to a new contract, to letting him walk & signing another veteran QB to replace him, to drafting a QB or doing some combination of the above. I’ll take BA at his word that he hasn’t made a decision yet on how to proceed.
All the speculation about who our QB will be might be fun, but I think it’s far more interesting to keep an eye on what might happen with the REST of our TEAM. You know, those OTHER 52 players not named Jameis. The decisions that happen there will have far greater impact on whether our Bucs can become a playoff team in 2020 and/or 2021 and beyond. Without a strong TEAM around ANY QB, we won’t make the playoffs.
January 3rd, 2020 at 8:21 pm
Neither
January 3rd, 2020 at 8:24 pm
@Ndog … “like we have literally anything good on this team but the passing game”. Sorry Ndog, but the only one who’s CLUELESS is you. Bucs are FINALLY doing what we should’ve done years ago … getting back to our DEFENSIVE roots.
Bucs’ management spent mega-millions on ‘weapons for Winston’ and it’s returned NOTHING except one losing season after another. You obviously take great pride in having the first QB in NFL history to join the 30-30 club, but most of the rest of us don’t. The 30 TDs was a major accomplishment and should be celebrated. The 30 INTs was a major cause of yet another Bucs’ losing season and deserves to be soundly criticized.
Most of us take pride in TEAM as opposed to INDIVIDUAL stats. And the ultimate TEAM stat is your won/lost record. You should try it.
January 3rd, 2020 at 8:28 pm
Like I heard on the Ira show any 3rd down not converted into a 1st is a turnover. As an longtime Bucs fan I remember run, run, and pass on 3rd and long then punt. On the off chance we were able to score more than 16 points we started to believe our offense had finally turned the corner. In those days yes any Int or fumble meant we lost with no hope, but at least during the Winston era we had a chance to try a FG and sometimes get a TD. Rarely during the Winston era would the defense hold on to a lead.
January 3rd, 2020 at 8:32 pm
So Defense let me get this straight you now want to build the defense and get rid of the most important part of our offense? And you think that would be successful, great defense and meh offense? Brilliant I say brilliant!!!
January 3rd, 2020 at 8:34 pm
And for those who are so sure Winston only excelled in college due to the team around him consider that no ONE that he threw to in college made it in the NFL. Everyone was so sure Adam Humphries was a star WR we had to keep, but his stats say otherwise 816 yds (2018) versus 374 yds (2019), so who made who? Hump’s replacement (Perriman) had a career year did Perriman finally figure out he NFL or did he benefit from the pass thrown by Winston?
January 3rd, 2020 at 8:38 pm
So seriously if we let Jameis walk and we reduce our passing game to let’s say 3,500 yards and 20 TDs. How do you think we are going to win games, seriously? We going to grind people down with our dominating running game? We going to shut down teams like the Saints, Ravens, Seahawks or KC? You truly in your heart believe that our defense can hold those teams to 20 or less? Really and if so may I ask why do you believe that?
January 3rd, 2020 at 8:40 pm
“Bucs’ management spent mega-millions on ‘weapons for Winston’ and it’s returned NOTHING except one losing season after another.”
…….Because of the historically bad defense
Weapons for Winston produced 2 consecutive top 5 offenses
What aren’t you guys understanding? It’s really not that hard.
Don’t have to be a rocket scientist to understand
– Top 5 Offense
– Bottom 5 Defense
Maybe Winston isn’t the main problem of the Bucs? Shocker.
January 3rd, 2020 at 8:59 pm
I’ll take Jameis over Luck, Rivers, Cam, Dalton.The only one I would consider is Bridgewater or maybe see what Jacksonville is doing with Pornstache if they stick with Foles. Even with those I think the Bucs should give Winsotn a one year or slap him with the transition tag. I want to see him play one more year with the same defense assuming Bowles comes back
January 3rd, 2020 at 9:18 pm
It would be great to have Rivers with no running game and the current Oline. He’d get hurt so fast we would be in the Trevor Lawrence sweepstakes
January 3rd, 2020 at 9:37 pm
Rivers allllll dayyyyyy. Would rather pay rivers cheaper money over winston at 30 mil
January 3rd, 2020 at 9:45 pm
TBbucs3
Just curious. Some here just love JW…some because they are FSU fans. While I disagree with then I do understand their passion.
However a fact…Our secondary improved DRAMATICALLY this year..our #1 draft pick was lights out after coming back from a knee injury. Forced fumbles…two returned for touchdown.
And so when the D improves that dramatically shouldn’t JW be able to get the job done. Somebody pointed out…but JW was 5-3 that second half. That makes my point all the more,,if JW hadn’t choked the final two games we would have had a winning record.
But no! JW tosses a pick six to end our season and ENSURE WE WERE LOSERS!
JW’s record is 28-42..I believe that’s a losing record. WE are losers with JW.
And so we are left with the blame game. Were there other mistakes..Absolutely but Joe always like to bring up where a player was drafted in terms of reasonable expectation. OK!
JW was picked #1 OVERALL in the entire draft!!! IE Maximum expectations.
JW made twenty freaking million this year. Know why? Because he’s the QB the most important position on the team. That’s why the majority of the blame ends up on him….just as the glory when he plays well like the Rams game.
A 25 million a year QB shouldn’t kill our hopes in OT He should pull a Russell Wilson and lead his team down the field for a TD.
BTW….JW did this choke job at HOME…against the Falcons…admittedly playing well at the end of the year but they were not as talented as the Bucs.
January 3rd, 2020 at 9:56 pm
Yes JW had alot of turnovers but just because you move on from him yes the t.o.would be lower but also all those passes and plays that only he can do are also gone. So what are you left with lower score,yards,tds per game with same defense and poor oline no rushing equals a bad season more losses. What if we had the same jw from this year but with a better rb and defense how bout a better oline.. thats what i want to see
January 3rd, 2020 at 10:01 pm
JW was not great Texans or Falcons game…..
But who the heck did he have to throw too?
The dude made Breshad Perriman look like the second coming of Randy Moss.
January 3rd, 2020 at 10:33 pm
I would love to be a fly on the wall during the meeting where Arians, Licht and the Glazers sit and discuss what to do with Winston.
Arians knows now he can’t win with Winston and that Winston is much more of a project than he was told.
Licht is still trying to save face from drafting Winston and still trying to prove that he didn’t totally squander the #1 pick in the draft on him.
The Glazers are looking at all they have invested in Winston and trying to decide if they want to throw good money after bad. Plus, they know that as long as Winston is under center, Ray Jay will continue to empty out which hurts their revenue stream plus looks really bad to all of their corporate sponsors and advertisers.
Yep, would love to be there
January 3rd, 2020 at 10:49 pm
I am accused of being an FSU biased Bucs fan with rose colored glasses, but some want to dump our loss solely on Winston’s pick six in overtime which no doubt he did throw and neglect to mention that Gay missed 3 FG’s. I understand some do not like Winston, but stop trying to convince others with “facts” and leave out pertinent “facts.”
January 3rd, 2020 at 10:50 pm
Also in addition to Gay losing the Falcons game he also missed the game ending kick against the Giants as time ran out. Which would have put us at 9-7 not 7-9.
January 3rd, 2020 at 10:59 pm
Rivers is over the hill, his last couple of seasons have seemed frantic and he isn’t hitting his receivers properly.
Jameis is under the hill and his last season seemed frantic. It was his audition season and he blew it. Can we expect him to improve? I have doubts.
We need fresh talent. The NFL is changing. The drop back pass has been solved and the running game that is three yards and a cloud of dust is history.
We need either Jordon Love or Jalen Hurts to bring this franchise into the 21st century. Both should be available in the third round,
January 3rd, 2020 at 11:01 pm
St. Pete said exactly what I feel. I’m sick of routing for someone that makes those decisions on and off the field. But he’s balling both on and off the field. I think the majority of fans don’t care if he does get better. Just go somewhere else.
January 3rd, 2020 at 11:03 pm
There really isn’t much to debate % wise. Jamies will most likely be back next yr and that is pretty much all there is to it. Glazers won’t let him go unless 2 1st rounders and such on the non-exclusive. JW will be back. I think the 30 ints was an exception rather than the norm. I think he will be better next yr.
How long we make the deal for is ………jeeeesh nobody knows.
January 3rd, 2020 at 11:07 pm
I think assuming people who like Jameis are FSU fans is presumptuous. I could care less about college ball.
January 3rd, 2020 at 11:13 pm
@SPBF:
Thank you so much for the kind words, and a hat tip to you!
As far as this thread goes, why don’t we compare Jameis to a QB who is actually dead, such as Y. A. Tittle? I would rather have Jameis than most of the QBs who are, in fact, already dead. Jameis would probably have more upside than the dead guy, but the dead guy probably would have fewer turnovers. Maybe a tossup??
Personally, I feel that Rivers and Jameis are much the SAME QB at present, with many good plays, as well as many terrible plays resulting in too many turnovers.
A better question regarding the two might be:
Your team just made the playoffs, and they have to win three straight games and win the Super Bowl, or your entire family gets executed. Which QB would you rather have play those three games? So, neither one for me.
So, let’s try a different comparison, not comparing apples to oranges:
In 2018, two different QBs played for the Bucs. Everything else was pretty much the same, coaching, running game, receivers, defense, kickers, etc.
Ryan Fitzpatrick 164 of 246 (66.7%) for 2366 yards. 17 TDs (6.9%) and
12 INTs (4.8%), with a QB rating of 100.4 for the season.
Jameis Winston 244 of 378 (64.6%) for 2992 yards. 19 TDs (5.0%) and
14 INTs (3.7%), with a QB rating of 90.2 for the season.
So, on a per game basis:
RF vs JW:
30.8 vs. 34.4 att/game
295.8 vs. 272 YPG
2.1 vs. 1.7 TDs per game
1.5 vs 1.3 INTs per game
So yards and TDs didn’t matter then, and everyone said that Fitzpatrick was bad because …………… wait for it………………….. he had too many turnovers?????
Lastly, the ultimate apples to apples comparison:
JW3 vs. JW3 in 2019
At home, 204 of 343 (59.5%) for 2637 yards, 15 TDs and 24 INTs and rate 69.1
Away, 176 of 283 (62.2%) for 2472 yards, 18 TDs and 6 INTs, and rate 102.7
At home, 2wins and 6 losses.
Away, 5 wins and 3 losses.
Same coaching, defense, rushing, kicker, plays, etc., etc.?
What could POSSIBLY account for the difference?
tickrdr
Proud member of the “Clueless Fan” Club
January 3rd, 2020 at 11:15 pm
TexBuc
“neglect to mention that Gay missed 3 FG’s”
That hasn’t been neglected at all. In fact Joe had an entire thread on Gay’s kicking woes. Nobody denies that kicking will be on the agenda next year and Gay will certainly face competition in training camp,
But not JW. No he’s too much of a choker to have actual competition and so BA banished Fitzmagic because he was in Jamies head? JW is afraid of competition?
So let me see if I’m understanding here. Everybody agrees that a rookie kicker lost ONE game…The Giants…he did NOT lose the Falcons game because JW still had the chance to pull it out. The final play is generally…IMO foolishly looked at defining who won or lost a game at the end or in OT.
And does everybody also agree that Gay is just as responsible as a rookie from nowhere making just 875,000 as a fifth year player at QB earning 20,000,000?
Do we have the same level of expectation? Or is this just another in the increasingly lame excuses supporters of JW hurl out.
January 3rd, 2020 at 11:22 pm
I think Jameis can never stop the turnovers, but I would still take him over Rlvers.
January 3rd, 2020 at 11:24 pm
The other thing that gets me is this guy who is balling on and off the field is demanding that he be paid as one of the leagues best. In his mind there are no repercussions for 30 interceptions. Maybe that’s because that’s how it is off the field too.
January 3rd, 2020 at 11:25 pm
Wow NDOG…now I’m not only “clueless” but “weak minded”.
bwaahaaahaaaa.
Your arrogance is beyond impressive…I’m surprised you can fit your massive ego through your door at night.
If Tickdr can be a proud member of the “Clueless Club” I guess I’ll have to be a member of the “weak minded” club.
I’m not insulted…Coming from you I’m complimented.
January 3rd, 2020 at 11:29 pm
Oh the other thing is the folks who keep talking about his off field issues which from what I recall happened over three years ago on something he was never convicted of. That goes to show you why most don’t like him. Stpetebucfan hasn’t liked Jameis from day one either so the haters who are out in full force for the most part never wanted him anyways. Even though hard sometimes it’s best to just not argue with them and let them rant. Go Bucs! Go Jameis!
January 3rd, 2020 at 11:32 pm
Turned over on downs = turnover
Missed FG = turnover
Punt = turnover
Turnover can and do determines outcome of games. When turnovers occurs also determines outcome of games. Three missed FG’s means we never would have gotten to overtime.
January 3rd, 2020 at 11:41 pm
To me if gay would have made the fgs for the giants and falcons game. That’s two games and the defense would have played better the first half of the season we are looking at around 11 wins.
But with Jamies not being able to handle the pressure he’s going to have games like he did again the Texans. That’s not a recipe to win a championship in my opinion.
January 3rd, 2020 at 11:45 pm
Winston has hit his ceiling. He will not change or get any better. Arians knows that now.
Arians wants to win now, and knows he can’t win with, trust, or depend on Winston.
If Arians gets overruled and the Bucs make the mistake of keeping Winston, you can bet the Bucs will sign a very capable backup. So when Winston does what he does which is giving the ball away like it’s a game of Hot Potato and getting hos team a loss, he will be on a short rope and will be benched. Then the Bucs will be forced to face the Truth and send him on his way.
January 4th, 2020 at 1:59 am
Winston will not change or get any better?
After reading other comments in the last year:
“There’s NO WAY JPP ever returns to football”
“There’s NO WAY Cappa is a starting O-Lineman”
“There’s NO WAY Ronald Jones will get any better”
“There’s NO WAY we have a pass rush in 2019”
“There’s NO WAY the Bucs are better than 5-11 in 2019”
Etc., etc., etc.
We’ll see how it plays out.
January 4th, 2020 at 2:32 am
I’d take Jameis over Rivers at this point in his career.
January 4th, 2020 at 3:25 am
Imagine the reaction on this board next year when JW is in the MVP convo with Mahomes and Jackson.
Good times ahead folks….
#WinstonIn2020
January 4th, 2020 at 5:57 am
Yeah, or this time of year, or sooner, when we are talking draft again. Good times.
January 4th, 2020 at 6:43 am
The Pats have drafted 10, yes 10 QBs since selecting Tom Brady in 2000.
Rohan Davey (Fourth round 2002, 117th pick)
Kliff Kingsbury (Sixth round 2003, 201st pick)
Matt Cassel (Seventh round 2005, 230th pick)
Kevin O’Connell (Third round 2008, 94th overall)
Zac Robinson (Seventh round 2010, 250th pick)
Ryan Mallett (Third round 2011, 74th overall)
Jimmy Garoppolo (Second round 2014, 62nd overall
Jacoby Brisset (third round 1016, 91st overall)
Danny Etling (Seventh round 2018, 219th overall)
Jarrett Stidham (Fourth Round 2019, 133rd overall)
I know these QBs were not drafted for competition to Brady, but if the team with arguably the best QB to ever play has Drafted 10 QBs in 20 years I don’t think it would hurt the Bucs to kick that rock weather Winston returns or not. QB is the most important position on the field therefore you should continually attempt to upgrade it until you find a consistent starter who can win you 10+ games year in and year out
January 4th, 2020 at 8:08 am
Could you imagine Rivers, Stafford, Bridgewater or Carr with the Bucs receivers.
January 4th, 2020 at 8:20 am
BucAllNight,
Pinch me! No shot in hell Jameis is in the convo with top flight QBs or league MVP with all those turnovers. He will probably be at home on his couch next year for the playoffs, having thrown for a bagillion yards and touchdowns- with just as many interceptions.
January 4th, 2020 at 8:26 am
Jameis torpedoed our season with his suspension. I’m over it now, but I do consider if he were to get in trouble again, then he would be suspended a year. That’s scary and not unlikely considering his past issues: crab legs, BB guns, two incidents with women, and shouting obscenities at a cafeteria.
All of these have been behind Jameis and that’s good. But one more mistake and he’s suspended for a good long time. This first suspension was three games.
January 4th, 2020 at 8:35 am
Fantasy football. Phillip Rivers has 12 kids he’s not moving away from S.D.. If he takes another gig, it would have to be closer to the West coast. Even if S.D. drafts a QB, why let Rivers leave? So he ain’t coming here, get that out of your heads.
January 4th, 2020 at 10:40 am
I like how people act like they know what Rivers and his wife think, saying stuff like “he won’t move across the country with his 9 kids”.
A- how do you actually know that
B- it’s not like he couldn’t afford it
C- He and his Wife are from Alabama, who’s to say they wouldn’t have any to be closer to their families
So no one really knows how they feel about moving except for them
January 4th, 2020 at 10:42 am
Winston is good at being great and great at being bad. Give him one more year with a younger QB pushing him. That would be better than just letting him go and hoping a rookie pans out (oh wait, that’s what we did with Winston).
January 4th, 2020 at 11:04 am
I can see it now with the game on the line Carr scrambles to buy time its 4th and goal with no time left then Carr throws it out of bounds because no one was open. Game Over everyone is bummed we lost. but Carr did not throw an INT so we are thrilled with our new QB.
January 4th, 2020 at 11:58 am
tiredand87was right
This about far more than simple on field disasters whether you wish to admit it or not,
You must be new here because I supported JW’s drafting. Supported him despite the FACT that he torpedoed that 18 season by betraying us AGAIN…after the team took the chance and overlooked his stupidity in Tallahassee.
I’ve just reached enough. And not to pick on you personally because this has been a cultural thing that has overflowed to this blog. I’ll give you the benefit of doubt and assume you’re just riffing and using slang.
But in case you’re not and frankly for others here can we start using the ENGLISH language properly again? Just so you know…Merriam Webster provides a couple of definition that perhaps will explain MY REAL TAKE…
HATE- intense hostility and aversion usually deriving from fear, anger, or sense of injury
b: extreme dislike or disgust : ANTIPATHY, LOATHING
OBSERVATION – a judgment on or inference from what one has observed
OPINION – belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge
Now for the JBF poster definition..
HATER..anybody who points out a fault of your favorite player or disagrees with you about that players ability. There are no definitions about observation or opinion…it’s either hate or love.
January 4th, 2020 at 12:14 pm
I wouldn’t be too sure about Winston’s bright future. Other than the Bucs who don’t want to admit making a mistake, who would really be all that interested in bringing in a 30 interception QB? PLUS the off the field character deficiencies.
January 4th, 2020 at 12:51 pm
I think he’s coming back and if he does…… I’ll still BE a FAN of the Bucs AND Winston.
Don’t really care too much how YOU want to be a fan….
Go Bucs!
January 4th, 2020 at 12:56 pm
How many Charger losses can you single-handedly ascribe to Philip Rivers? How many Buc losses can you single-handedly ascribe to Winston? That’s all that needs to be said.
January 4th, 2020 at 1:01 pm
It’s sounding more and more like he’ll be gone. Off the field the guy has been awesome. And he definitely has a lot of heart and a strong work ethic. But none of that matters when you can’t trust your franchise q.b. with the ball.
January 4th, 2020 at 2:06 pm
Rivers
January 4th, 2020 at 2:22 pm
Rivers, Brady, the man-in-the-moon, I don’t care! Time to unload this guy. Not because he is a FSU grad, not because of his off-field behavior, but because he has tossed 30 (Think of that – -lead the lead 30)ints. That is just too much to lay on your teammates to overcome.
I agree with the concept that the league has changed. Brady is an example of a franchise that keeps a traditional offense since they have perhaps the GOAT of traditional QBs. KC, Seattle and Houston are franchises that have embraced the new style of movable QBs(all in the playoffs). Go get one of those and re-energize this franchise. Plug in a Rivers or even Gabbert to transition.
January 4th, 2020 at 4:59 pm
@SPBF:
“Do we have the same level of expectation?”
—————————————————
This is my favorite line from your post last night.
Of course the expectations should be different IMHO.
I ignore the hundreds of misspelled words and grammatical errors in the COMMENTS by posters on this site, but I do often report the same type of mistakes made by our hosts, as the EXPECTATION is that they are trying to be as professional as they can, and such errors make them look unprofessional.
I am not trying to make them look bad, and I always offer them the option to DELETE these posts, and correct the errors, if they want. Hell, I wish I had the option of editing some of my posts as well.
In a similar vein, the expectation is that JW3 should be playing like the #1 overall pick in the NFL draft, or at least like other first round picks in the draft. Many people are afraid that we cannot match JW3’s production with a different QB, but as I posted above, Ryan Fitzpatrick (journeyman) actually had BETTER
production than Jameis on a per game basis in 2018. MORE yards, TDs,TD%.
Finally look at the multitude of seasons’ stats posted by other QBs drafted since Winston, with better than 2:1 TD/INT ratios, fewer turnovers, and better records, even in their rookie or 2nd years, let alone after FIVE years in the league. Granted not every QB drafted has those results, but the idea that it has not been done fairly frequently, and cannot be done is simply not true.
tickrdr
January 4th, 2020 at 6:38 pm
If its an affordable deal why not? Bring him in to start while mentoring our newly drafted QB.
Dont care how we do it but i feel like JW’s days here are done.
January 4th, 2020 at 6:40 pm
Look at the QB’s who’ve come out the last 3 years….Josh Allen looking good right now.
January 4th, 2020 at 9:34 pm
Look how effective the Bill’s run game is and how stout that defense is playing all year. Oh look how effective the Bill’s place kicker is tonight.
January 5th, 2020 at 6:38 am
The Bucs team as is did just fine against the Texans, winner of last night’s playoff game. The problem was the Bucs QB didn’t let them win due to his usual poor decisions. The Bucs lost to the Texans and numerous other teams on Winston mistakes alone. The team doesn’t have to play a perfect game, but the QB can’t make numerous poor decisions and give the ball away multipe times. Josh Allen and Deshaun Watson, both much more inexperienced than Winston, took care of the football. Both had a chance to win deep into the game. Winston would never have gotten that far.
Winston needs to go.
January 5th, 2020 at 6:46 am
TexBuc, with your stated point-to-the- obvious comments, surely you also noted neither QB threw 4 INTs. In fact, I didn’t see even one. Everybody on both teams did their jobs, including the QBs is ccurate. It would be fair to say either rookie, low paid Gay or five year veteran multimillionaire Winston did their jobs against a bottom feeding team, the Bucs would have won against ATL…but neither player did. The young K lost two games directly for the Bucs this season. Winston directly lost six games, and has gotten worse as his career went on. So surely if you think Gay isn’t cutting it, you agree Winston playing worse at year 5 is past time for being sent away.
January 5th, 2020 at 10:47 am
Mr Reality
NO
January 9th, 2020 at 12:35 pm
Neither option is at all exciting–or even good. Both entertain at times, and both disappoint in the end. And, Rivers and his nine kids? He’d never switch coasts no matter what he might get paid. Off season (for the non-playoff teams) banter. B-O-R-I-N-G.