Pressure Picks & Time-To-Throw Picks
January 23rd, 2020
The dissection of Jameis Winston’s 30 interceptions this season continues.
One thing remains certain, however you carve them up, America’s Quarterback racked up a shameful total worthy of scorn, disbelief and distrust.
NFL.com data analyst Cynthia Frelund, who has access to all the Next Gen Stats regular fans can’t access, did a deep dive study of the most underperforming position groups around the league this season. She used intricate formulas combined with Next Gen data derived from sensors in equipment, not subjective nonsense from the Pro Football Focus.
Frelund determined Philip Rivers was the low achiever QB of the league. But her summary showed how Rivers was second to Jameis in a couple of areas.
According to Next Gen Stats, when under pressure, Philip Rivers threw just four touchdown passes against 10 interceptions. Only Jameis Winston had more pressure picks with 11. How about on passes with 2.5 seconds or more to throw, to help approximate a lower-pressure situation? Rivers threw 10 touchdown passes against 15 interceptions — again, second-worst to Winston (17). And of Rivers’ 15 picks on those slower-developing plays, nine of them came when his receiver had at least 3 feet of separation at time of release.
So let Joe get this straight, Jameis threw 19 of his 30 interceptions when he was not under pressure. Nineteen! Rivers threw 10 of his 20 when not under pressure.
Joe won’t compare the two when having more time to throw because that’s a bad comparison considering Rivers is immobile.
Regardless, the Bucs must find a way to cut Jameis’ picks to a level of respectability. He’s got a decent offensive line and excellent targets.
January 23rd, 2020 at 12:39 pm
Joes…do you think knowing what you know about Jameis that he can be consistent enough to win you 3-4 games in the post season without bad Jameis showing up?
If the answer is no, why not sign a vet and look for someone to draft or draft somebody earlier.
My point is…if Jameis isn’t the guy to get you and hopefully win a Superbowl and his decision making with the football seems to lend credence that hes not, keep looking for the guy that is.
January 23rd, 2020 at 12:44 pm
“He has a decent offensive line”? Huh! Why was he a leader in taking sacks and hits? Are you attributing them to Winston?
January 23rd, 2020 at 12:45 pm
Right on Steve from O!
In BA I Trust!
January 23rd, 2020 at 12:46 pm
Yeah just visually thinking back to most picks that’s been the case. He doesn’t throw as many picks while scrambling / rolling out.
Typically it’s forcing his first read and typically it’s LB’s in underneath coverage when there isn’t any pressure.
19 is insane lol.
Rivers = older worse version of Winston right now.
The only way I’d accept Rivers over Winston is if it means we are drafting a QB R1 and saving at least $15-20M+ on the difference between Rivers/Winston contracts.
January 23rd, 2020 at 12:55 pm
MVP season coming up for Jameis
January 23rd, 2020 at 12:56 pm
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results. ~ Einstein
January 23rd, 2020 at 12:56 pm
Jameis threw 19 of his 30 interceptions when he was not under pressure.
the “o-line is trash” crowd is silent now!!!!!….lol….
GO BUCS!!!!!!
January 23rd, 2020 at 1:05 pm
@ Bucboi but the WIND was blowing on 16 of those 19, so he really only threw 3 when he wasn’t under pressure. I forgot the receivers are to blame for those 3 so he threw 0 when he had no pressure
January 23rd, 2020 at 1:05 pm
Rivers is also second to Jameis in gropes, assaults, crab-stealing, FHITP-shouting, helmet-poking, helmet-ramming, suspensions, and eatin’ W’s.
January 23rd, 2020 at 1:08 pm
Reasonable Joe wrote this one.
When it comes to Time-To-Throw, Jameis ended up being 16th of all starting QBs. For much of the season though he (well, the offensive line) was in the top 10 in giving their QB time to throw.
The QB with the least amount of time was Andy Dalton but surprisingly, Drew Brees was one spot above Dalton.
Again, the offensive line is not the problem.
January 23rd, 2020 at 1:15 pm
Jameis has proven to kill teams that blitz so simply drop back deep into coverage, cause goodness knows you don’t have to worry about the run, and jump routes or spy the QB.
But regardless of all of this stuff. Does anyone really have any faith that if they let Jameis walk they will not totally screw this up?
Speaking for myself if Jameis is gone I fully expect a total crap show at QB next season, regardless of who they bring in. And trust me I know most people hate Jameis nowadays, cause it is the cool thing to do, but there are going to be plenty of folks that are going to watching and will be comparing everything the next QB does to what Jameis has done especially leading the number 3 scoring offense in the NFL. That is the bar like it or not if they let him walk.
January 23rd, 2020 at 1:19 pm
LordCorn
“The only way I’d accept Rivers over Winston is if it means we are drafting a QB R1 and saving at least $15-20M+ on the difference between Rivers/Winston contracts.”
I largely agree with that. But I’ll accept whichever QB at whatever price that BA feels comfortable. But I certainly share your feeling that the deal needs to be sweet from Rivers agent for us to even consider it.
And I’m leaning towards grabbing a QB early whether we keep JW or not.
JW may blow up next year. JW may be the “franchise” people that about half the posters here believe. There is no longer any downside. BA protected JW his first year to see how he played without pressure. He wanted him to feel free to let it fly. We’ve witnessed what happened.
No more need to protect JW. If he’s truly great the best QB in the draft should not threaten him. He simply needs to play. If he’s worried about the backup QB that’s a reflection on how he handles pressure. Dealing with Pressure…the absence of choking…is something JW needs to prove.
IF JW does do the job in 2020…Eason or whomever the Bucs select could simply become our Garapolo if BA develops him. We should have no trouble recouping that draft pick in a trade of the new guy.
January 23rd, 2020 at 1:29 pm
Some of you guys just don’t get that sacks and hits aren’t just on the O line…or the RB’s supposed to be chipping guys that get through. Sometimes the QB doesn’t get rid of the ball fast enough, and holds on too long. Or doesn’t show good pocket presence. Ever see Mahomes influence an entire pass rush with a dip and a fake step? Amazing. Yes…the O line is pretty good at pass blocking. Stop blaming it for everything that happens to or because of Jameis.
January 23rd, 2020 at 1:29 pm
Uhhhh, Jay-Miss was the 2nd most blitzed QB in the NFL next to Russell Wilson but hey, never let facts get in the way of a good narrative.
January 23rd, 2020 at 1:33 pm
NDOG
“And trust me I know most people hate Jameis nowadays, cause it is the cool thing to do,”
You seem certain in your football knowledge…almost god like. But this statement is not about football knowledge and is simply absurd. You can have your football opinions but why must you continue to misrepresent the half of the board that does not agree with you?
Is it really that hard to accept that about half here simply DISAGREE WITH YOU. I can’t speak for all but as for me I do not dislike or disrespect you. JW is irrelevant to those feelings…he’s just a football player.
You are entitled to your opinion about JW but not us. What is cool about ANYBODY’s football opinion. JBF is split roughly 50-50 which totally destroys your statement. If it was “cool” there would be a lot more than just 50%!!!
If every time somebody thinks there is a better player than JW it’s not necessarily “hate” just a simple disagreement.
I’m hardly a JW supporter at this point…unless of course BA returns him as a Buc..then he’ll have my support…and again on a personal level if JW goes anywhere besides our 3 division rivals I’ll root for him to succeed.
And NDOG…since it apparently effects you deeply to view folks as haters…not only would I root for JW…I’ll root for YOU as well except when JW plays the Bucs.
In honesty if the Bucs suck I’ll be in a foul mood and perhaps not able to honor this commitment. But if JW goes elsewhere I’ll be HAPPY for you to have your opinion validated. The perfect ending for me is to find a great QB who takes us to the SB to play against JW so that EVERYBODY here can be happy.
January 23rd, 2020 at 1:34 pm
JOE RESPECTFULLY,,, please explain why u have a man crush on Winston.. he has lied to the team ,has questionable issues outside of football, leads the league by far in interceptions and seems unable to carry the team when needed. He is rated below average by the nfl with big time receivers and after 5 years nothing has changed .We both want the bucs to win and be in the playoffs . You keep pushing Winston to stay under center and i would like to know your logic or do you have a relationship with the man?How many picks or off field issues before you take off the rose colored glasses ? (I pay for season tkts every year )
January 23rd, 2020 at 1:35 pm
Why did she show Rivers INT and TD totals but only INT totals for JW?
January 23rd, 2020 at 1:39 pm
It seems QBs struggle and throw picks the first year in BA high flying offense. If they pass on JW will the next guy struggle and throw ints without the touchdown and offensive production? If the defense plays at the level they did from game 10 on this team has a winning record. All the losses are not on JW. In fact, with most other QBs we would not have even been on the games the first half of the year. And if we had any starting receivers in the last two games and a kicker that did not lose his mind, we probably would not even be wondering if Winston is coming back or not.
January 23rd, 2020 at 1:43 pm
Why are you comparing Winston to Rivers? How about comparing him to the other 7 or 8 potential free agent QBs?
January 23rd, 2020 at 1:47 pm
Kicker…please guys…think. Yes.. in tie games with time running out, and he misses a very makeable FG that would win the game, it is on him. Just as the ATL pick six OT loss was on Jameis. But in the course of the game, that nine points effects play calling and strategy. Is it bad, sure. But you can’t just add those points missed in the context of the game and attribute the loss on him. The game doesn’t work that way, any more than one missed extra point. If you outscore a team substantially from that point on, it means nothing regarding a win or loss. Same thing for one int. early in a game. Demoralizing, yes. But not the primary reason for the loss.
January 23rd, 2020 at 1:50 pm
The only difference between besides age is the cost. So we bring Jameis’s identical twin in for around $23 mil compared to ATM’s 30+ mil demand.
It’s all a push except salary demand.
At least with Rivers we could afford to bring everyone back.
January 23rd, 2020 at 1:53 pm
Hating JayMiss is cool?
Well I guess I’m a god dam pioneer then!
Thanks ndizzle.
January 23rd, 2020 at 1:57 pm
After a lifetime doing statistics, I recognize the good, bad and ugly. Time to Throw as evaluation of OL pass blocking effectiveness is beyond stupid. Like committing suicide because the world is ending stupid. Scramble to throw quarterbacks are always going to be high on this no matter how good or bad their OLs are.
January 23rd, 2020 at 2:26 pm
I would easily take Rivers 64.7% pass completion rate over Jameis’s 61.3% any day.
Only twice in River’s 14 year starting career did he ever dip below 61%.
Last season 66%
JW in 3 out of 5 seasons has been below 61%
Last season 60.7%
That 5% difference breaks down to approximately 2.2 extra completions per game average in the 16 game season.
Last season out of less attempts (591) River’s completed more passes (390) than JW (626 – 380)
J
January 23rd, 2020 at 2:30 pm
*correction* 2.8 extra completions
January 23rd, 2020 at 2:32 pm
This screams learning the system to me.
Anyone want to take the over against my under 20 picks in 2020?
January 23rd, 2020 at 2:33 pm
ben
If you don’t know why joe or anyone would want to keep winston, you just haven’t been paying attention. Not sure what you’re gonna say when our front office and coaches opt to keep him. You gonna grill them too on their decision?
January 23rd, 2020 at 2:38 pm
Honestly, the biggest issue with this franchise is not that jameis throws picks, or our defense sucked, the gm, etc.
It’s that our fan base is spit on jameis. I respect both sides but not uneducated, passionate opinions. It’s gonna be tough to find a jameis supporter that isn’t educated and passionate unless they’re related to him or fsu fans. But it is very easy to find haters that are uneducated and passionate.
I see why people want to move on from the picks, I get it, but it’s so much bigger than that. Fill yourselves in to why. I know this site is biased cuz a lot of us breathe the bucs, but the casual bucs fans are pathetic and unfortunately make up the majority of this fan base.
January 23rd, 2020 at 2:54 pm
The Bucs dont really have to worry about Jameis if they choose to move on. Give our weapons to a QB who realizes ball security is important. Jameis’s meltdown in the final two games of a contract year is evidence that he has no ability to make more careful decisions with the football. When millions of dollars is at stake and you still dont care there is a definite problem thats probably not fixable. Ask Dirk Koetter he wasted his head coaching opportunity on that goal as well.
January 23rd, 2020 at 2:54 pm
I will
January 23rd, 2020 at 3:23 pm
By all means, let Suh and JPP go and HOPE Jameis reduces throwing interceptions to a “respectable “ level.
After all, a great running back will “fix” Jameis.
…. Pathetic
January 23rd, 2020 at 3:25 pm
As of October 1st 2019 these were Jameis Winston’s #’s vs the blitz 2019: 31-of-39, 525 yards, 6 TD, 0 INT, 158
After that the blitz slowed down Drome but again Jameis doing well is impossible in your eyes so I’m sure these numbers are all fiction in your eyes despite them coming directly from the beat writer of the Tampa Bay Times.
January 23rd, 2020 at 3:35 pm
Buccernutter
Not everyone has to be a statistician or a psychiatrist to know that Winston is an average at best QB that plays in a scheme that utilizes deep passes as the first option. It don’t take the “perfect fan” to know that Jameis after 5 seasons is not a winner. No one has confidence that when our team’s back is against the wall Jameis will step up. All we can do is use the past to make a determination to justify the money JW is demanding, he’s not worth it. Especially when there are other available QB’s out there that can lose just as good as JW at a lesser price.
Not even you have a crystal ball so stop pretending you can predict the future.
January 23rd, 2020 at 3:36 pm
20picks?….lol….
you’re satisfied with 20INTs?….
of course you are…lol….
try less than 15INTs….
GO BUCS!!!!!
January 23rd, 2020 at 3:39 pm
The only pressure I care about is the pressure to win a game on the final drive. The greatest reason I like Winston is I always thought he was the type of QB to thrive under pressure. That is what truely separates elite QBs IMO.
But after this year I am starting to question Winston’s clutch ability. He had the chance to lead us on several game winning drives and choked up several INTs instead. The latest example being the final game of the season.
I dont opsess about turnover stats like many others but throwing INTs when you have a chance to win the game it’s absolutely unacceptable…….Winston must get better in 4th quarter pressure moments and I have no wiggle room on this.
GO BUCS!!!
January 23rd, 2020 at 3:46 pm
Buccernutter I Don’t think it’s accurate that the fanbase spit on Winston.
In fact I dont recall him ever getting booed in Ray Jay. That would not be the case in most NFL cities. Tampa Bay has actually been very patient with Winston…….Heck even today most polls show the majority want Winston under center still…….Fair or not most cities would not be that tolerant after 5 years one 9-7 season and a big gooseegg in playoff appearances……..Seem to recall a article Joe had that only just a few QBs in history have lasted as long without a playoff apperance………Like it or not the QB will always take a large share of the blame when a team remains as a loser. It’s been this way for the entire history of the NFL and will always be that way.
Yes Winston does have his share of haters for non football stuff. But when it comes to critism Winston is just being held to the same standard every other QB in the league does. Winston is not above the standards.
January 23rd, 2020 at 3:49 pm
Point is quit acting like Tampa Bay fans are overly critical of a losing QB. That’s just not true at all.
Or go see for yourself and see how many Falcons fans wanna move on from Ryan. Or how many Ravens fans are questioning Lamar…….this list goes on.
January 23rd, 2020 at 4:13 pm
Crazy times we live in . It’s 2020 and people are putting player over team and political party over country . I just want the Bucs to win .
January 23rd, 2020 at 4:15 pm
Rivers had a garbage OL and not nearly the talent at WR as winston. Melvin Gordon was out most of the year so you can stop with all that non-sense.
How about you do a 5 year average comparison…. yeah i think not.
January 23rd, 2020 at 4:16 pm
JJ- do you think it is fair to put 30 INTs on Winston even though they did come out of his hand? Not looking for excuses but truths. Do you think any QB in this league could win without a running game, with the worst defense in the league, the worst kicking game in the league and one of the worst ST units in the NFL? The question I have for these people is even though 2 of our WRs have been great, the only guy throwing to them has been Jameis. Anyone think Odell was great this year with Baker? Our 2 great WR may be just good with another guy throwing to them. How did JuJu look without Ben? Chicken or the Egg theory. I address you because you are capable of adult conversation.
January 23rd, 2020 at 4:26 pm
Smoothbay
I saw what you did there. lol I agree btw.
January 23rd, 2020 at 4:28 pm
JJ
I know you realize that arguing with facts here whenever the top turns to JW is largely unappreciated, even though you make very solid points.
January 23rd, 2020 at 4:37 pm
jjbucsfan……All fair points. I do want Winston back and a huge reason why is the defense figured out Bowles system midway through the season. We finally got an defense that can support our offense. If Winston can put together a good season next year we got the pieces finally to be an actual contender.
I Don’t put all the losing on Winston and I’d hate to give up on him the first time we got a chance to win.
As far as the INTs I Don’t care how many are his fault or not. If we wanna break down every QB in the league and do the same study then it’s an actual debate. And I would wager if anybody studied all that Winston still threw the most. Until then it doesn’t matter to me. The goal in sports is to outplay your opponent. 30 picks is 30 picks and that hurts your chances of winning unless you are intercepting you opponent over 30 times.
And on most of the INTs people are saying was not Winston’s fault there’s almost always a way the QB could have avoided the negative play since the ball was in his hand…….Case in point was the pick early in the year that went off OJs hands. Yes that INT was OJs fault. He must catch that ball. No excuses…….But the ball placement was not ideal. Throwing high over the middle is a mistake from the QB(yes a small one) and the reason why is the result of the play……..On almost every NFL play there’s multiple factors. I call cheap study to assign blame and point a finger at just one person on most plays.
David Harrison does the best breakdowns of these plays in mine opinion.
January 23rd, 2020 at 4:39 pm
Jean
So much anger in your response. Like I said to you probably 10x now, find me when he’s not on the team. It’ll be a few years or more. Seriously, do you really think jameis won’t be back next season? You are all over the place agreeing with me and then retracting but whatever. There is no prefect fan man, but I will debate til death that there are tons of sh**y ones in tampa. You’d be surprised who agrees. You’d also be surprised who believes jameis can and will be a great Qb. It only takes an espn skit to see that I’m correct.
813
when the f*** did I say I’m satisfied with 20 picks? LOL What is with people filling out their own context here. I said I would make a bet for the over/under. smh come one man. READ SLOWLY.
JJ
I don’t disagree with some of the stuff you said, but you are UNAWARE if you truly believe the hate for the man is not an epidemic at this pt. I mean That couldn’t be more inaccurate. I refer to PR, JBF, bleacher report, facebook groups, Bucs blogs, perception in Tampa, at away games, at home games, bucs nation, etc. I breath this team. I still haven’t met someone that has my passion about the bucs and I can assure you that you couldn’t be more wrong. I see it every day, from every source. Jameis support is 50/50, sure, but that is much lower than most other quarterbacks get and the negative 50 is BAD. You can choose to believe that or not, I don’t care, but you’re wrong.
IF YOU DON’T THINK TAMPA FANS ARE OVERLY CRITICAL OF JAMEIS WINSTON, THEN YOU DON’T KNOW S***. THAT IS THE MOST INACCURATE THING I’VE SEEN IN RELATION TO JAMEIS WINSTON. I’ve lived in 7 other markets and it’s not even close.
January 23rd, 2020 at 4:51 pm
I’m a Winston supporter but I also stand up for the rights of our fans to be able to criticize our QB without being attacked. If it’s unfair critism that’s one thing but most of it is very fair and fans are constantly attacked bellitted labeled and called names over it.
I Don’t know if they realize but the extreme stances that the nugglers and haters have about our QB has created a divide among Bucs fans……They like to beat on each other and that’s fine but too offense their emotions get the better of them and they beat on decent Bucs fans who really only want to see the team succeed. These extremists are disillusioned and Don’t know how to separate fans who are more or less in the middle of the fence.
They take every opinion personally and attack any they dieagree with. These fans do more harm then good to our fanbase.
January 23rd, 2020 at 5:05 pm
JJ
I don’t disagree with any of that. I personally only counter attack. Ya I’ve said this fan base is dumb, because it is, but I’m not necessarily singling anyone out. You would be surprised how much hate I have received from people simply for stating that I support Jameis Winston. Not because I’m biased but educated. I strongly disagree he isn’t a good QB or couldn’t be an elite one. There is a laundry list of reputable NFL insiders that agree with my sentiment.
in my experience I’ve seen way more hate coming from people who do not like Jameis Winston then from those that support him. Like I said if you disagree that’s fine, but you’re blind to what I’ve been exposed to and as a passionate fan it’s more than 95% of bucs fans I have met or spoken to. Essentially the anti Jameis crowd is a lot more passionate than the pro jameis crowd. And by the way my sample size is very very very very large.
I just wish there was more patience for the inevitable starting qb of their favorite team. People don’t have to like them but they certainly don’t have to hate him.
January 23rd, 2020 at 5:06 pm
Buccernutter fair enough…….I Don’t know what the percent of people who truely hate Winston is but I am aware that they exist.
To be fair that would probably be true of any player acussed of the things Winston was.
But I do wonder how many of these haters are actually true Bucs fans. I Don’t do Facebook or Twitter because as a good ole boy once taught me they are the tools of the devil.
From my experience which is people I meet on the streets and real Bucs fans I talk to at the games I rarely meet any that hate Winston as a person. Many think he’s a crappy QB but that’s different IMO.
Them social sites are likely to be filled with mouthy troll and people that aren’t Buc fans at all. I’m betting the opinions of those at the games and watching on Sundays are separate from those on facebooks……..Think Joe did a poll from real Bucs fans at Training Camp last year about Winston. I’d read more into that personally.
January 23rd, 2020 at 5:07 pm
Now cue the it’s been 5 years we’re patient enough lines.
January 23rd, 2020 at 5:16 pm
It’s simple….if you want to win the game, you need to win the turnover battle. Since 2005, NFL teams that win the turnover battle are 2,444 – 603 – 7….that’s a 78.8% winning percentage.
Look at the recent years for the Bucs….since 2007 (last playoff appearance) the Bucs have won the Turnover Differential battle in 6 seasons, and in those 6 seasons their combined record is 48 – 48 (.500). In the remaining years when the Bucs lost the Turnover Diff for the year, their record is 32 – 80 (.275).
In the 5 years Jameis has been QB, we have had only 1 season where we were T/O positive….2016 when we went 9-7.
You just can’t win when your QB is turning over the ball all the time.
January 23rd, 2020 at 5:16 pm
And yeah Buccernutter. Was not referring to you with that comment. You’ve be pretty fair from any post I’ve read. And your right there are for sure more haters then nugglers.
I think the haters bother me less just cause they attack fans for liking our QB……I mean how ridiculous is that? What a awful fan to like a player hahaha…..They are more funny to me then anything.
January 23rd, 2020 at 5:39 pm
Buccernutter, passion is increasingly characterized as hate by those who disagree. My views on JW are clear but I’ve never stopped hoping for the best for/from him and our team. Enough history has built up that I consistently fear what bad might happen with the ball in his hands come crunch time… instead of thrilling at what good might happen. There’s no hate, just exhaustion. I and most fans ready to move on fully understand JW’s talent and how possible a renaissance for him is elsewhere. I won’t hate him (or either Bruce) if he leaves and makes the SB without us. I honestly think a separation could be best for both the Bucs AND Jameis. Fresh starts are about passion for the future, not hate about the past.
January 23rd, 2020 at 5:42 pm
Actually, I do kind of hate Culverhouse for what he did to Doug but that’s a very different topic…
January 23rd, 2020 at 6:00 pm
JJ
Youd be surprised how much of my sample of size is not just line but at games. Your perception is also biased as there are about 10k empty seats due to the hate for jameis. I have a very good reason to act and talk the way I do. Again, it’s my perception but it’s experienced from all angles.
I agree about the haters. They don’t bother me lol. Mostly because they aren’t the sharpest and it is very easy to infuriate them. I get a laugh out of it. I don’t single out people unless their malicious but watch me bro, I tend to pull the devil out of em. I think we agree on a lot.
Westchap
Excellent response. I agree a lot. Let’s just say you’re in the minority though that are passionate but realistic. It’s easy to identify the difference between hate and exhaustion. I respect exhaustion. I’m exhausted. I got one more year of jameis left in me. I think people will be surprised when Arians does too. Although the tea leaves should show nobody should be surprised. Once he’s gone I won’t care about jameis. It’s about the bucs for me. But for anyone to suggest he sucks and will always suck is ignorance. I would hope he’d succeed when he’s not playing the bucs but I wouldn’t care much. I just know we have a quarterback with the POTENTIAL to be elite and has already shown a lot of proof it could materialize. A good way to find a passionate hater, is for someone to disagree with that. Or maybe they’re just dumb.
January 23rd, 2020 at 6:00 pm
Online**
January 23rd, 2020 at 6:23 pm
Buccernutter……That is a good point about empty seats. But I Don’t think they are directly related to the QB.
I actually googled attandance stats just now. Luckily is was easy to find. We actually drew some of the higher crowds then we had in the post Chucky era with Jamies under center.
When we look at some of the higher years of attendance it basically directly correlates to winning seasons(i know not many) from the previsous year.
I find it very hard to believe that stadium won’t get packed out if we play meaniful December football. Also find it extremely hard to believe the stadium won’t get packed out in 2021 if we go on a playoff run this upcoming season.
I will disagree and say the attendance is more of a fairwheather fan problem then a QB thing. The only way to know for sure is to win games and see if attendance remains a problem. Til then we just Don’t know.
January 23rd, 2020 at 6:29 pm
JJ
Well you took that a lot further then I intended. What I mean is a lot of those empty seats are there because of jameis. I mean not all of it was because of him, but a large chunk. The attendance actually went down when we went on that streak.
Either way, my pt still stands. Jameis has a LOT of haters that hate him for more than just his ints.
Tampa has a lot more fair weathers than most fan bases.
January 23rd, 2020 at 6:34 pm
Attendance off of the chart that I’m looking at shows biggest crowds in 2008(latest year shown) and 2009. 2008 was coming off of our last playoff apperance. 2009 was coming ng off a winning season.
In 2009 we won 3 freaking games and attendance immediately plummeted in 2010 by a large percent..
In 2010 we go 10-6 and attendance spikes in 2011. After that the attendance slowly rises basically every year. It continued to rise in our first two years with Winston also……Now in the last three years it is trending downward.
Take from that what you will.
January 23rd, 2020 at 6:38 pm
play calling could be tweaked to affect the interceptions
January 23rd, 2020 at 6:44 pm
I am so tired of this Jameis bullchit. For 5 years we have been arguing as a fan base over whether or not he is a good QB and this just in, he’s NOT! I just read ALL the comments like I usually do and I am always biting my tongue. But I have to say something to whoever said Winston was a good QB and could be elite. Not looking the statement up again cause I don’t care who said it but I will say GTFOH with that chit. Winston is average at BEST! Just so you know in the future, before you make yourself look STUPID evaluating QB’s, a GOOD QB will throw 2 TD’s for every INT he has. Elite QB’s throw less than 10 picks in a season which JW3 will NEVER do. He has NEVER thrown less than 15 picks in a full season and if he had played all 16 games last year he would have thrown over 18 in 3 of his first 5 years. His INT totals over the last 2 seasons suggests to me he has regressed no matter what you think. Keep him if you want but don’t expect the Playoffs while he is here. A Wildcard spot is the best you can hope for with JW3 under center. He will NEVER win enough games to win you the division and a game at home. We would be one and done even if we did get in.
January 23rd, 2020 at 6:53 pm
I also think you can take those who say they won’t go to games because of Jameis how you want. I believe many use him as a fixture towards the losing……Think about it. If Joe Blow fan up and decides this year he won’t renew his tickets because of Jameis…..Does that mean he hates Winston or he hates losing? He just endured 5 years of Jameis……Did he just now decide to start hating Jameis? I say no. He has just gotten overly frustrated and using Winston as a scapegoat.
Or read the post above by Big Stinky…….His first semtam e says he’s tired of the Jameis BS……..I bet he won’t be tired of it no more if we go 11-5. I bet hell want more.
January 23rd, 2020 at 7:21 pm
JJ
Big stinky is an exact example of irrational analysis. JJ, let me ask you, do you think Jameis is a good QB? Do you think he could be elite if he can learn to limit turnovers? Do you think Bruce is wrong for retaining him? Do you think Steve Young, Brett Favre, Carson Palmer, Terry Bradshaw are all wrong when they say Jameis can be very good and they expect dominant numbers in 2020? Do you think Big Stinky knows more than them and his pessimism is realistic and more accurate than other’s optimism? Do you agree he IS NOT a good QB?
If someone quits going to games NOW after mostly a history of futility, how can we say it’s because of losing? We’ve lost for so long. There’s more to it.
I just don’t understand why people can’t comprehend that if the run game is good or better, instead of terrible, jameis won’t have to throw as often and won’t throw so many ints. I don’t understand why people can’t comprehend that jameis leads the league nearly every year in sacks absorbed and if he had more time in a vertical offense he won’t force passes leading to ints. I just don’t understand why people can’t comprehend that if the kicker made his kicks jameis wouldn’t have to put the team on his back to drive another 80 yards to score those missed pts. I just don’t understand why people can’t comprehend that if the defense can stop the offense from passing so often and scoring so often at levels that are consistently highest in the league that jameis won’t have to pass as often to catch up or stay in games leading to more interceptions.
I get it. He still throws picks regardless and he needs to fix that. Suggesting it’s a certainty is ignorance. I just want to see what happens when he has a good run game or defense. We went 5-3 and would have been 7-1 if gay made his kicks when he has an okay defense. He had a pro bowl year (mark2001 thinks it’s meaningless) when he had a run game as a rookie. He had a 9-7 with a good defense in 2016. Interceptions won’t go away. We all know that. But what if he’s winning? You guys still gonna be mad that he’s throwing interceptions? Nope. It’s changed the entire perception. If Jameis had scored on the final drive vs Atlanta the narrative is different. People just put so much merit into numbers.
I’m just saying, Bruce will opt to keep him. I’m fairly confident. What he does next is a mystery but nobody is more right than anybody else. It’s a 50/50 guess but saying hell fail cuz he’s throws the ints is stupid. Jameis can win with those flaws. Give him support that he’s rarely had. And that’s not my mentality but merely the mentality of people who believe in him like favre young Bradshaw and palmer.
The truth is in the middle. But people like big stinky don’t think it’s possible to go jameis’s way which is lazy analysis and ignorance. Maybe frustration from losing and I respect that but certainly not logic.
We’ll see but I have confidence that he can be good or great or even elite because no matter what some dude on jbf, it’s possible and he has shown the ability.
Period.
January 23rd, 2020 at 7:31 pm
Many would argue that suggesting a qb who has set records for yard and TDs at a young age, nearly won roty and a probowler his rookie year, thrown for a record 450 yards in back to back games, leads the league in yards, tied a record for TDs in one game vs Philly, statically the best qb in his teams franchise history, with no run game, defense, ol, coaching, or special teams in the majority of his career, that he is in fact a good QB.
But you know that’s just what idiots like Bruce arians think. Right big stinky? He’s really made himself look STUPID evaluating QBs. Just like favre Bradshaw young and palmer.
I seriously can’t believe some of the stupid s*** you guys post. Lmao.
January 23rd, 2020 at 7:34 pm
Bottom line is that Joe and others would rather lose with Winston than win without him. By any objective measure Jameis is least likely QB to win the Superbowl, much less make the playoffs. He’s single handedly turned our franchise into a circus side show. Announcers just poke fun and laugh at us. “Step up folks and see how many interceptions the brain dead idiot will throw today”. Wash, rinse, repeat. How many coaches being fired does it take before the cancer it cut from this franchise?
January 23rd, 2020 at 7:43 pm
This is exactly what I’m talking about^^^
Sad thing is most fans thinks this way. So much untruth to a lot of this. I guess I’ll chalk it up to frustration but there’s to much bull**** to acknowledge this take. If u don’t see how ignorant it is, then you are a part of the whole I’m referring to you.
January 23rd, 2020 at 8:00 pm
Well I actually think it’s irrational if you can’t understand where a guy like Big Stinky is coming from. The turnovers are absolutely deflating.
But I do think it’s a big deal learning a new offense. There’s good reason to be hopefull Winston looks improved next year but the memory of 5 years of turnovers is difficult to get past emotionally.
And even though Winston has throw a lot less turnovers then 30 the turnovers has always been just as bad an issue because he was fumbling a ton before. So all in all the turnover problem has always been this bad or close to it………That’s a lot to just overlook especially when it’s been a full half decade.
Forget all the other stuff about kicker or defense. We are talking QB. And the turnovers are a problem that have gotten worse over the years. If we are talking bad defense or bad kicker nobody’s bringing QB into the discussion. We judge those things separately and should be able to do the same with Winston. I dont see why that’s so hard.
I think it’s fair to admitt you can understand where these fans are coming from. Part of the QBs job is to protect the ball. Some fans have no hope that he will ever get better at this and to be honest I can’t blame them.
January 23rd, 2020 at 8:12 pm
As far as asking me if Winston is good and if he can be elite my answer is yes and yes…….But I certainly dont expect anybody to agree with me. That stuff needs to get proven on Sundays.
If our opinions mattered then Noah Spence would be doing what Shaq does and we wouldn’t need Chris Godwin cause what’s his name was the greatest receiver since sliced bread when he tore up mini camp.
Brate would be a professional mover and nobody would know who Hump is.
Potential is great but at some point you gotta put it all together. Most players Don’t even get five years in the same city to do that.
January 23rd, 2020 at 8:19 pm
JJ
I understand where he’s coming from. Lol. But he’s thinking with his heart more than his brain and I was fairly clear about how that viewpoint is illogical. I respect the frustration. I was clear about that but it clouds judgement and if you think he’s right about a lot of what he said other than being frustrated, well then I may have been wrong about you and that’s okay.
Unfortunately I think that’s the debate here. Judging jameis aside from the team. I agree if we’re judging jameis solely, well then yes he’s a huge dissapointment in a lot of ways and honestly that’s a big factor in my discussion today. Too many people judge him aside from the team. He’s had bottom 5 defenses, ol, rbs and special teams most his career. Nobody is talking about a qb in a discussion about kickers cuz that’s not correlated dude. I said why jameis is dependent on a kicker it’s really football 101. I think that’s a problem with a lot of these fans I don’t respect and a little disappointed that you think that way when I was pretty clear that jameis’s play is directly correlated to his team. Every QBs success is correlated to his supporting cast and to judge them separately is lazy analysis. But sure man, jameis could do better irrelevant to the rest of the team but that’s not what I was debating here. I’m getting deep into analytics, not purely judging one player on googled stats.
But simply stating I don’t understand where he’s coming from ignored a lot of what was said here and couldn’t be further from the mark. Cuz I do understand, but the rabbit hole goes deeper than that silly post.
January 23rd, 2020 at 8:26 pm
Now the second post I am on board with because there was a level of mutual understanding. However you didn’t quite get what I meant about that guys stance. It’s just too lazy and almost common sense for anyone to comprehend why someone is frustrated with the interceptions. Funny cuz you agreed with where I was going the second time but did you actually believe I disagreed with the other guy because I don’t understand why he’s frustrated with his turnovers? I thought I was clear, maybe not, but my response was more about who jameis is and can be and a lot of that has to do with the TEAM and not the PLAYER. This is football, not basketball and stating one guy is solely responsible for his failures is comical in the NFL. That’s why we HAVE to include other aspects of the team.
January 23rd, 2020 at 8:41 pm
Dude I think you just made me realize a lot so thank you. Too many people judge jameis solely from jameis’s actions. It takes a little more effort to see the big picture and why Steve young has a different opinion than someone on jbf. Because they think about the teams influence on a QBs success. It’s why tannehill played well in Tennessee and sucked in Miami. It’s why some players have been busts in Tampa in recent years, partly cuz the lack of a supporting cast. Give jameis a good TEAM and he is a good PLAYER. Only time he’s had a good team, they went 9-7. Just saying. People shouldn’t expect elite elite play like Rodgers to make up for it. We’ve sucked got most our existence and never had a franchise qb so now people want elite play with no supporting cast or they want to move on? Now bucs fans are picky about their qb? Lmao right. Jameis is a good player that will win with a good team. Don’t expect him to do it all.
January 23rd, 2020 at 8:44 pm
Name one winning, solid qb right now that has as bad of a defense like jameis did most the season, run game, kicker, and has had nearly the most sacks in the league. Name as many as you can.
You’ll open my eyes.
January 23rd, 2020 at 8:47 pm
Buccernutter
Whatever you say Brother! I hear crickets though! JimmyJack did NOT say Winston was a good QB like you were hoping. All that rambling on to try and prove your point is pretty funny BTW. Almost ROTY! Outstanding! Pro Bowl because someone backed out! Not impressed!!! Record 450 yards passing in back to back games against teams under .500! Big deal I say! Brees did it in the Playoffs against stronger competition. Setting records for a franchise that has Drafted the likes of Dilfer and Testeverde. Again, not a big accomplishment! First QB to throw 30 picks in 35 years. That says a lot! ONLY QB to throw 7 pick 6’s in 100 years. Come the f*** on! Yeah, he’s a good QB alright! You actually think that Arians believes he is a good QB after the year he had? WOW! I’m the ignorant one? Why would he say we need to see what’s behind door number 2 if that’s the case? Bring Winston back next year and Arians will lose his job over it. Take it to the bank!!! No Playoffs and 9-7 at best.
January 23rd, 2020 at 8:56 pm
OK I’ll admitt I probably ignored some of your points Buccernutter.
And I get your point about judging the team around the QB and I think a lot of the pushback you’re getting from that stems from some fans using other parts of the team as a excuse for Winston. You clearly admitt he has some bad flaws and does need to improve so I probably took that the wrong way…….which is partly why I say the extremists fans do more harm then good to the fanbase…..Now because of them the mere mention of a bad defense or kicker triggers me badly……to the point now where I become blinded in rage yo any point trying to be made……..I will blame myself for being unwilling to simply ignore them.
But concerning you your points are valid and we’ll stated.
January 23rd, 2020 at 9:02 pm
Anyways the good news is the Bucs will have a good team next year because the defense is ready to rock and roll. Winston will have the required experienced in this offense.
Won’t be nothing to hold Winston back barring the unforseen.
It’s the main reason I want to bring Winston back because we now finally have a team he can win with. We can become sustained contenders in this league & Winston Don’t gotta be the hero he just gotta do his part.
My confidence is high and a lot of the experts are saying the same thing if you listen closely.
GO BUCS!!!
January 23rd, 2020 at 9:03 pm
Extremists fans do more harm than good to the fan base.
Exactly!!
I sincerely believe the team would be positively influenced if the fans met in the middle.
January 23rd, 2020 at 9:05 pm
It’s the main reason I want to bring Winston back because we now finally have a team he can win with.
Bruh you make me want to cry (jk). I rarely meet people that GET IT!
We’re about to find out. Should be a great off-season.
January 23rd, 2020 at 9:08 pm
I Don’t know. Did Russell Wilson have a crappy defense? And same with Mahommes?
Going back I can remember Aaron Rodgers carrying a couple teams that weren’t very good on defense or running.
I’m just going of memory and I also quit watching non Bucs football this year after we were cheated in Tennessee. Don’t got no stats for ya nor care to look them up.
I get your point. We didnt have any playoff teams no matter who was at QB over the last few years……..But if I wanted to play devil’s advocate I could say another QB probably could of won us more games……..The Texans game for example. Another QB could probably gotten us a win there.
January 23rd, 2020 at 9:14 pm
Okay so you just listed 3 of the greatest QBs of all time right? So jameis isn’t them so he sucks? But like I said, defense, run game, ol, AND kicker. That’s what jameis has had to deal with.
Ya another qb could have won us the Texans. But another kicker could have won us the Giants and falcons. I don’t think many other QBs could have won the Rams game. But we both have our opinions.
January 23rd, 2020 at 9:16 pm
But you see how elite a qb has to be to win under those circumstances right? Even if we debated mahomes Wilson and Rodgers.
Well see how Winston does with some help… finally.
January 23rd, 2020 at 9:22 pm
Well yeah 3 of the greatest. You’d have to be pretty dang great to win with no defense. You basically gotta be a hero which is what we have asked Winston to be.
And still like you said it’s also no kicker and no run game. Might wanna factor in we consistently have been one of the worst disciplined/pentalized teams in the league.Even them QBs I listed would struggle in Tampa Bay.
But I wanna forget the past. We will be a solid all around defense next year. With our passing game it’s more then enough to get over the playoff hump. I’d rather focus on the future and seeing how great this team can get.
January 23rd, 2020 at 9:26 pm
Fair enough. It’s all about 2020.
Do or die.
January 23rd, 2020 at 9:40 pm
I guess JimmyJack agrees with you after all. Not surprising though. Most here believe Jameis is hands down superior to Glennon but ALSO not true. MG8 learned 2 new offenses his first 2 years with OC’s that were QB coaches the year before. NEVER got first team reps with offense until the week he was thrown in both years yet put up numbers better than Winston in their first 18 1/2 games. Jameis had more yards but was in a vertical offense and had the luxury of the entire off season with the first team offense and a seasoned play caller. Thanks ahead of time for what you will call me for comparing the 2 of them. Don’t give a chit what you say in any case because it’s a FACT. Numbers don’t lie unfortunately!!! Glennon’s numbers were what I would consider a good QB. 29 TD’s and 15 INT’S vs 121 TD’S and 88 INT’S. Seems pretty obvious to me but to each his own. Hope he does become a good QB some day. Not likely but I can dream, right?
January 23rd, 2020 at 9:45 pm
So your response is…
Glennon is a good QB and Jameis is not?
Got it 👍
January 23rd, 2020 at 9:53 pm
Not understanding why everyone is drooling all over the thought of Rivers coming to Tampa…Rivers has never won anything significant…
He’s had good teams around him .. Solid defenses, HOF RB, HOF TE, solid offensive lines over the years…I just don’t understand the logic… he just threw 20 picks at 38 years old…I’m really confused
This fanbase is an absolute joke…
January 23rd, 2020 at 10:12 pm
If it’s true that we can transition tag Winston and get 2 first round picks if someone else pays him more you CAN’T pass on that. He will NEVER be WORTH more than he is at this point. How often do you get the chance to get 2 first round picks for a player that is NOT elite? You could get Rivers to replace him with the same results, maybe make the Playoffs. This is our chance to build a TEAM, not just keep using endless picks (no pun intended) to try and make him better.
January 23rd, 2020 at 10:37 pm
Big Stinky you should be happy. You win the consolation prize…..which is for right now you are right. Winstons turnovers have been a issue and it’s hard to make a solid case you can win with them.
Just look at the stat sheet. 5 times he threw 3 or more INTs. That’s not gonna win squat in this league. Now he managed to win one of them took an insane effort that can’t be expected.
9 multi pick games….9!!!! That’s actually disturbing. A few posters keep throwing up the stats and it’s just fact. You lose the turnover battle your killing your chances. With each one it gets worse.
So you got the stats to back up your stance. What do we got? 5000 yards…..Yeah well Bress did it 5 times. And only twice did it lead to a winning season. So 5000 is hardly the standard for winning that turnovers is.
But Im sure at the core of most Winston supporters is the belief that we can win with him. A better defense will help change his mindset and a second year in the system will make a large difference. So all we got is our beliefs. I just hope you’ll jump on the bandwagon if Winston can lead us to victories.
January 23rd, 2020 at 10:44 pm
Buccernutter
My response to that dribble you were spewing was previous but who cares? I’m not going to repeat myself, just again state your accomplishments mean NOTHING to me. I see a QB that stares down his receivers, forces throws, has bad ball placement, and CAN’T win in crunch time. Three games I can think of this year where JW3 had the ball with a chance to tie once and win the other 2 times. All 3 drives ended with picks and 2 were pick 6’s. No defense to blame, lack of running game, but maybe the kicker in the last one. Regardless, just doesn’t have the IT factor. 7 fourth quarter comebacks and 11 game winning drives in 70 games just about says it all. Would love to know how many times in that 70 games he had the ball last with a chance to tie or win and blew it. As for Glennon, not sure if he’s a good QB or not, just that his stats are what you want from a good QB. Basically saying we wasted a No.1 pick on Winston and should have traded the pick since we used a 3rd round pick on MG8 in 2013. We could have had 28 wins in 70 games with Glennon and got SO much more for trading that pick.
January 23rd, 2020 at 10:55 pm
When people say our defense was bad I laugh because Winston gave up 42 points ONLY on his pick 6’s (round to 7)deduct JUST those points given up and our defense is ranked MUCH better for points allowed (PA) That doesn’t included the INT and fumbles. That’s a field goal a game on only 7 of his throws… I can’t believe people are actually debating if he’s good or not. Add up points from turnovers and it’s not hard to see the problem
January 23rd, 2020 at 11:09 pm
JimmyJack
Can’t believe I am still on here trying to get my point across. Don’t get to talk to many Buc fans here in Fort Myers so I occasionally put my two cents worth in some articles. I read people’s posts almost every day and constantly want to join in but keep my mouth shut. EVERY year I get excited come Preseason to see if Jameis looks better, and yeah he usually does, because he doesn’t play the whole game. Season starts and the turnovers ensue. I would love for ALL you optomists to be right and Winston to become great. Eat crow and I would have no problem with it. In Jameis I would trust. Too many bad habits for a QB that is the first in and the last one out of the building. How can he be regressing the last 2 years?
January 23rd, 2020 at 11:19 pm
The answer is simple. Let Jameis walk… too expensive.
Not even up for debate. When you lead the league in yards and touchdowns but you also lead in turnovers, that’s baaaaaddd. The season was over before it began. He finished how he started with garbage performance.
January 23rd, 2020 at 11:23 pm
Nutter, I say it every week, you cannot underestimate the Gator/Cane/Nole rivalry. The Tampa Bay Area is a house divided. My most ravenous Gator fans hate Jameis. They are also the ones that never attended UF. The ones that did, get frustrated with the INTs but still understand what his potential is with a better team around him. It is really easy to turn on a player when they are down, the hardest thing is to support and defend them at that time. Most will flip flop next year when he leads us to the playoffs (if the D is fixed and MG9 figures it out). Then they will claim victory and say how smart they were if he throws less picks. They don’t care Arians said before the year, JW will throw picks in this offense until he masters it. Said this is a 2-3 year process. Well 5100 yards and 33 TDs and 30 picks, later, let the process continue to play out
January 23rd, 2020 at 11:26 pm
Rivers isn’t good. Jameis isn’t good yet and probably never will be. Let Winston prove himself worthy of being a francise guy one last time. Please Buc’s front office draft a qb this year in case Jameis goes South. Unless Brady comes here (zero chance) we gotta roll with Jameis.
Btw Cynthia Frelund is one if the cutest nerds that I have seen. 😇
January 24th, 2020 at 12:17 am
Jjbuc
Man you know the deal. Good to see a few of us. Well said.
I mean one guy said Mike Glennon was a good QB and then retracted and the other is astonished people are still debating if Jameis is good.
We’re rare bro. Lol