Investing In An Unpopular Quarterback
January 10th, 2020
So how much will fan opinion matter to Team Glazer?
Hey, when your team stinks on the field over the course of a generation, it’s reasonable to think a team might consider placing a higher priority on fan-friendly measures to balance out the on-field disappointment.
Joe brings this up after the recent 24-hour Jameis Winston poll on this site showed about half of fans don’t want Jameis to be the Buccaneers starter in 2020.
And while no poll is perfect, the results there were similar to others Joe has run (sometimes in the wee hours for just 1 hour). And it’s also reality that some Bucs fans quit on the team after America’s Quarterback was penalized by the NFL and labeled a sexual offender under their personal conduct policy in 2018.
So even if 60 percent of Bucs fans want Jameis back next season, that does not account for the fans who already bailed because of Jameis’ presence. And yes, Joe knows people who fall into that latter category.
Bucs attendance also is on a steady and significant decline, though Joe places the vast majority of blame there on the Bucs’ uninspired marketing and the team’s terrible home record.
Is it good business to pay a quarterback a fortune and make him the face of the franchise if he isn’t well-loved by the fan base as a whole?
That’s a worthwhile question. Team Glazer is, after all, in the entertainment business when you get to the bottom line.
Joe has no answers; Joe is merely asking the question and wondering how much of a factor Jameis’ popularity is to the equation.
This is the same ownership group that cut Derrick Brooks, let Michael Bennett walk, and was good with just signing a punter in 2011 free agency after going 10-6 with a young team in 2010, so Joe isn’t about to predict where Team Glazer will fall on Jameis.
It’s supposed to be all about winning, but the Bucs’ seemingly endless losing and 12-year playoff drought might shape Team Glazer’s focus. It’s hard to be all about winning when you don’t win.
January 10th, 2020 at 11:35 am
JW may be better with an OL to protect better. But, the catch 22 is you cannot pay him 20-30 M and afford to notch OL. So it boils down to if JW is willing to take 15M for 5 years then sign him and if not, don’t let the door hit your in the ………..on the way out.
January 10th, 2020 at 11:39 am
God I hope not this team would be worse (if that’s possible) by listening to what some of our fans want🤷♂️ I dont see them not keeping JW for atleast 2020. The offense needs to stay the same for the most part cuz it takes till year 2 before they all really start gelling in BAs offense. Besides 30ints suck but 33tds n 5100yrds is nothing to scoff at
January 10th, 2020 at 11:40 am
Pick 6s are very entertaining.
I just can’t get enough of it.
Please Glazers……open that vault for Mr. Entertainment!
January 10th, 2020 at 11:44 am
I’m afraid that even in 2020, much of the animosity toward Jameis would be softer if his skin color were different.
January 10th, 2020 at 11:44 am
I have no doubt that Licht has received inquiries as to the Bucs’ position on Winston. And it is not out of the realm of possibilities that the Bucs would tag Winston, and then trade him. If the price was right (players/picks), it might seem like their ‘best’ move.
January 10th, 2020 at 11:52 am
I have posted previously “Congrats to JBF for Jameis Winston”!
Like the “Jelly of the Month Club” from Christmas Vacation, he is the gift that keeps on giving.
The ironic thing to me is that he was likely chosen not only for his passing talent, but also for his FSU ties, in hopes that he would excite and unite the fanbase behind him.
But it seems the exact opposite has happened, and he has been the most polarizing player imaginable, perhaps in the history of the NFL.
50 – 50 split here at JBF, but likely much worse for JW3 nationally, if you read the comments of other sites. What to do, what to do? Hilarious, actually!
tickrdr
January 10th, 2020 at 11:52 am
He’ll stay for the 2020 season and he will be the highest paid player on the team. Just like a majority of veteran, starting QBs in the league.
So much lack of knowledge from random fans regarding an ever increasing salary cap and contract deals that get larger every year. $15M per year?! For a staring QB in the NFL? How uninformed is that? Mike Glendon got $18M for one season and that was three years ago.
It’s a Bucs life!
January 10th, 2020 at 11:58 am
Reposted from the comments on Ira’s post. Please ignore
tickrdr Says:
January 10th, 2020 at 10:39 am
“You don’t move on from that unless you have someone better.”
———————————————————————–
2018 Bucs:
Ryan Fitzpatrick: 164 of 246 (66.7%) for 2366 yards, 17 TDs(6.9%), 12 INTs.
2019 Bucs:
Jameis Winston: 380 of 626 (60.7%) for 5109 yards, 33 TDs (5.3%), 30 INTs.
IF, ………. Ryan Fitzpatrick played as well as he did in 2018,
AND,…….. he threw 626 passes for the Bucs in 2019,
THEN,…… extrapolating … 626 divided by 246 = 2.54 as the multiplier.
THEN: 2366 yards times 2.54 = 6009 yards.
THEN: 17 TDs times 2.54 = 43 TDs.
THEN: 12 INTs times 2.54 = 30 INTs.
But, only if he was allowed to throw that many times without fear of being benched, because “he be ballin’”!
But you’re right, how could we move on from Winston, and possibly find anyone better???
tickrdr
January 10th, 2020 at 11:58 am
I have no doubt Ben R would not have had the backlash here. And he was popped twice for it. Ben’s had a better organization and better coaches. Then there’s another obvious reason.
January 10th, 2020 at 12:00 pm
Forgot this part.
BTW: That sort of performance might still lead to losing results, even with 10 more TDs for the year, unless, of course, he didn’t throw SEVEN pick6’s.
tickrdr
January 10th, 2020 at 12:03 pm
How many fans from other teams are out there yelling he is free agent. Please get him. We want Jameis? Let him test the market. Make an offer remember he does not want want the franchise tag. And if they draft a QB he will be looking over his little shoulder just waiting. And we know what that leads to. It’s up to him if he does not like the offer but not any 30 mil.
January 10th, 2020 at 12:06 pm
50% of Bucs’ fans say turnovers don’t matter.
50% of Bucs’ fans think they do?
Since 2015, the Bucs have played 80 games, 16 per year.
They won the turnover battle some of the time and went 22 – 6.
They tied the turnover battle some of the time and went 4 – 7.
They lost the turnover battle the majority of the time (51%) and went 6 – 35.
tickrdr
AKA as “clueless fan”
January 10th, 2020 at 12:10 pm
This is why the ‘America’s QB’ nickname is such a joke; half of the Bucs fan base doesn’t like Winston and outside of Tampa, the Bucs are largely forgotten in the NFL landscape. Stick with Mr. Entertainment as the nickname for Jameis because it’s true; every time the guy drops back to pass it’s an adventure, for both the fans of the Bucs and just football fans in general.
As for where I stand on Jameis, I’m fine with bringing him back, ideally on a 2-3 year contract and hopefully for somewhere in the neighborhood of 25-28 million or less. We’ll see what happens.
January 10th, 2020 at 12:12 pm
The sad thing is that I don’t have animosity towards Jameis. Heck, I got two of the guy’s jerseys. I just don’t think he can play in effectively in this league. It’s not a personal thing. It’s a W-L thing. He shows flashes of greatness, then flashes of the dumbest plays I’ve ever seen. He reminds me so much of Lynn Dickey when he was with the Packers. It’s uncanny. I don’t think he’ll ever be better than that.
January 10th, 2020 at 12:16 pm
It’s time to move on. Been a loyal fan for 40 years and since JW my patience are running thin. I believed we should draft Herbert or Fromm and sign a capable veteran presence. We saw Fitzpatrick can run the offense as well as Winston so it’s not the qb. Please glazers remember we won our super bowl with brad Johnson. Perfect plan is to sign Andy Dalton and draft a qb like Fromm or Herbert
January 10th, 2020 at 12:19 pm
I give exactly zero effs about his off field behavior. I think he’s a great man that made some mistakes. He hasn’t done anything that warrants a firing. I care about the picks and what they do to the team’s moral. You can’t tell me that don’t effect the defense’s moral during a game.
January 10th, 2020 at 12:20 pm
Joe, it’s not just the Bucs with declining attendance numbers, it’s the entire NFL. Fact is it’s a better experience in HD in the man cave with a cigar and liquor. Other factors of course are at play. I was a season ticket holder for a very long time, and then they fired Gruden and I stopped going. Now, I’ll go to a road game or two a season, but I’m not going and melting in Ray Jay and drinking $20 drinks.
January 10th, 2020 at 12:20 pm
No starting QB will take 15 mil a year. It’ll be 25 minimum But based on hist stats I think 28-32 is fair but only on a 3 year w/ team option the 3rd year and You can draft an Olineman in the first.
I keep hearing that we may draft a guard kick Cappa out to RT. If that is the case that opens up our first round pick possibilites since there is no real 1st round caliber interior O-lineman. Now if we are trying to get a right Tackle then We surely have to take one with the 1st pick. Another swing lineman in the 5th or 6th should be good and Keep Demar for depth.
January 10th, 2020 at 12:26 pm
How FUBAR is this situation for mgmt?
Option 1: Keep JW
JW + Losing has alienated +/-50% of the potential fan base. If you can turn JW into a winner, what % of fans will come back? How many just can’t support the Bucs because of JW past transgressions? There is potential for having a winner and still not filling the stadium.
-vs-
Option 2: New QB
If you get a new QB and don’t win more games, what percentage of the remaining 50% do you lose vs what % of JW haters would you get back?
The Bucs have dug themselves a hole with Winston. But when you’re going through Hell … keep going. For attendance to rise, the Bucs need to win first. Winston has experience in Arians’ system so he’s your best bet. They’ll franchise JW unless he signs a friendly short-term deal. You move on for Winston, second. They’ll draft a QB after R1 and sign a vet to provide mulltiple options for a transition.
January 10th, 2020 at 12:33 pm
Fans understand the salary cap. They also see the QB is not worth that money.
Wake up and smell the turnovers.
– “Clueless Bucs Fan”
– you’re on fire @tickrdr! 🔥 keep lighting the comments up with thoughtful, factual dialogue. You da man!
January 10th, 2020 at 12:37 pm
“If we can win with this quarterback, we can win with another quarterback”
Maybe not word for word, but a direct quote from the head coach.
Winston has a career .290 winning percentage at home.
His interception/attempt percentage of 3.5 in his career is awful. Decent QB’s are in the 2.4-2.7 range, most “elite” QB’s are below 2.
You don’t have to be a QB guru to see most of his picks the last two years are either lazy throws or bad reads underneath. His first couple years he was throwing into tight windows and double coverage and getting picked. He looks now to me like a guy that doesn’t trust his pre-snap reads and waits for somebody to hopefully get open deep. If he could make pre-snap reads he wouldn’t be throwing so many shallow interceptions.
So to break him down:
He has a slow windup release that makes right window throws difficult.
He reads too slowly to come back to his underneath options.
He can’t throw comeback routes on the boundary, which is an absolute must to be able to do in the NFL.
He doesn’t seem to know how to make back shoulder throws, also a significant must in today’s NFL.
He cant read shallow coverages after the snap.
He knows how to throw into the large catch radius of two All-Pro caliber receivers.
Andy Dalton is a better QB at $10 million less per year.
January 10th, 2020 at 12:39 pm
@SteveK:
Thank you, and a hat tip to you, sir!
tickrdr
January 10th, 2020 at 12:40 pm
Gotbbucs,
Preach:
It’s all about Price vs. Production.
If Jameis’ price tag is $30 million per, then we are screwed bc the massive amount of turnovers.
January 10th, 2020 at 12:43 pm
All they have to do is get Jameis to Throw 16ints a Year an he is in the MVP talks he was learning a new System whole team was he will get the Ints down dude threw for 33TDs an 5109 yards he is in rare company all around Ints to Lol but he’s a good QB sign him
January 10th, 2020 at 12:49 pm
I have not posted in a long time and have not closely followed the team since the Uber incident. I have been paying attention late season / off season to see what they’re doing with him.
I will say it’s pretty shocking to check out for a long while and come back to hearing about a good defense???
January 10th, 2020 at 12:58 pm
the “face of the franchise” part sticks out most to me. He was accused (2x) of sexual assault and for some reason the Bucs ignore it and feature him. It’s easy to hide a guy with a checkered past on the line or elsewhere, but it’s different when you’re the Quarterback – sorry. It’s hard to be a fan and not like the quarterback, I always root for the Bucs…but not JW.
January 10th, 2020 at 1:04 pm
Meh,
Welcome back! The D came in strong in the second half. Our front seven was nasty and will hopefully be the priority to be retained in free agency.
January 10th, 2020 at 1:09 pm
@joe- all these people that so call bailed will be back on board if Jameis comes out strong next year!
January 10th, 2020 at 1:09 pm
@Investing In An Unpopular Quarterback
“So how much will fan opinion matter to Team Glazer?”
——————————————————————-
As always, ZERO.
BA = LovieS 2.0
January 10th, 2020 at 1:11 pm
@Joe
THANKS. Given the passion on this board and some irrational responses directed at those who are willing to see JW leave…it took a certain amount of courage to jab that hornets nest. I’ve been stung enough I no longer care to debate JW on the merits.
Besides the merits and FACTS seem to be pretty useless here. As usual Tickdr
presents fact after fact and people choose to ignore them.
Bottom line for me…Mr Excitement has turned to Mr. Frustration both on the field and on JBF. I’m done with JW,..but not BA. IF BA says bring JW back I’ll fall in line and accept the company policy. I’m not an anti-Jameis guy…just believe we could do a LOT better all things considered. But I shall undoubtedly cheer for the Bucs no matter who is under center.
Could we totally forget JW for just one second. No matter which QB ends up under Jensen’s butt next year how important are turnovers?
I think that is a HUGE part of all of us talking past each other. Some here believe turnovers are acceptable if offset by a dynamic high scoring offense. I get that…but I simply disagree. Of course TURNOVERS not just int’s are considered one of the primary stats that predict a win or a loss.
I believe when and how the turnovers occur makes a difference. I’m willing to take away any and all TO’s in desperate comebacks with “Hail Mary” passes.
TO’s in the first quarter just deflate the crowd and though they’re professionals I believe the team as a whole. Pick sixes mean you have to score twice as many times just to get ahead…what are the odds of doing that repeatedly in the NFL?
I am NOT talking about JW here just the general concept of TO’s I agree with the CW…TO’s will eventually bite you in the backside.
January 10th, 2020 at 1:11 pm
@ steveK- not your money dude… quit with how much he is getting paid. Old
January 10th, 2020 at 1:13 pm
@steveK
Keep discussing money v production.
Some of us would rather sign Barrett, JPP, Suh and others more than Winston based upon production last season.
January 10th, 2020 at 1:14 pm
besides alienating 60% of the fan base, he has not earned anything close to starter money and everyone if talking 20-30 mill.
10 mill with incentives, and another Fitz type to put in by game 3 if he has more than 4 int’s.
get a Vet QB w/o question, but the rest of the team is too good to invest that type of money in a qb that turns it over multiple times EVERY game….and a pick 6’s.
he’s already killed coaching careers, player careers, peoples careers/names off the field. signing him would be a TEAM killer. maybe if they want to join the xfl or play local high school teams or somethin….
January 10th, 2020 at 1:18 pm
Hamsandwichtime,
It’s not about the money, it’s about the salary cap. How much of the team’s resources are tied up in one player.
While it’s not my money, it directly impacts my favorite team’s ability to allocate resources and resign players that have EARNED another contract Shaq, JPP, Suh, Nassib. That group, and the D is more important than paying a “middle of the pack quarterback” (Joe’s words in a comment yesterday) $30 million.
January 10th, 2020 at 1:19 pm
Yeah you have to take the good along with the bad and ugly. Law of averages dictate the Bucs are near ready to contend for playoffs. Stink doesn’t last forever.
January 10th, 2020 at 1:19 pm
Fan support won’t mean crap. The only variable will be if Jameis’ agent will not get his head out of the clouds.
Then we will have to see if Jameis is going to do something to make himself better or if we need to call in Hazardous Waste people to clean up his toxicity. If he doesn’t get what he wants it is likely to be really ugly.
January 10th, 2020 at 1:25 pm
Yea geno- he had no production… lol. You guys keep focused on one stat. If he gets back to his average 16 or better he is MVP candidate. We let him go and New England will be glad to grab him. Worst and un knowledgeable fans in NFL
January 10th, 2020 at 1:25 pm
You have seen Jay Miss for 5 years now!! Same old song and dance!! Bring Teddy Bridgewater in and see the excitement go through the roof!! Pay him what you would Jay Miss and guarantee you the Bucs will put more rears in the seats and win more Ball Games!! Y’all need to move on and get real unless you like the Same Old Song and Dance!! Because that is what your going to get if you resign#3!!!!🤷♂️🏈
January 10th, 2020 at 1:27 pm
This isn’t about race. JFC, Roethlisberger wouldn’t be criticized for that because he’s a winner, plain and simple. Now if he came here and stunk up the bed, it would for sure be brought up.
Football is entirely about wins and losses. Bad white qbs get ripped all the time in the media and by fans.
Bucs fans have mostly stood by Jameis since he was drafted. It was his suspension, plus turnovers, that made people give up on him. Nothing to do with race.
January 10th, 2020 at 1:28 pm
I have heard so many complain about how a large portion of the population are from the North and remain fans of those teams..
There are now people who once were faithful Bucs fans for years, who have lived in Florida all their life and 2nd 3rd 4th generation, who are abandoning the Bucs to follow other teams… Why? because they are winners…
Especially over the last 5 years, imagine if the Bucs were to have hired a great HC and drafted a quality qb, since the Jags and Dolphins have been bad, the Bucs could have been the best team in the state and the stadium would be near as empty!… Instead, all 3 teams have been lackluster and created fans for teams out of state..
January 10th, 2020 at 1:30 pm
jameis, ricky bobby, winston will go to the most thuggish team out there next year…..steelers, bengals maybe
January 10th, 2020 at 1:30 pm
Hamsandwichtime,
Our opinions differ, and now you claim the majority of JBF poll voters are “not knowledgeable” and the “worst” in the NFL?
Are you Ndog? You guys sound alike, but for arguments sake let’s say it’s someone else.
When you hurl insults at those who have differing opinions it makes your argument look that much weaker and it makes you sound that much more less knowledgeable. Can we stick to football? Why do we question intelligence. Question opinions, but they are valid as yours. In fact more fans have woke and smelled the turnovers.
And it’s not just one stat. Why are there no playoffs after five years, and a massive issue with turnovers- more than anyone. Can’t ignore the truth.
January 10th, 2020 at 1:33 pm
Wake up and smell the turnovers.
January 10th, 2020 at 1:43 pm
Licht and the Glazers botched their best competitive window by pissing away 5 years of a talented QB on a rookie contract. It only gets harder from here if you plan on doling out $30mm per year to one guy, and to be honest I’m not crazy about that idea given Jameis’ makeup. Especially if it means ripping up a defense that finally looks to be turning a corner. CG12 is about to get paid soon, this defense still needs a veteran safety, the offense needs tackle help, and they have to retain some of their pass rushers. Shaq is gonna cost at least $20mm next year, if not more. That’s over half the available cap space already for just two guys, and we haven’t even factored in draft picks. The point is, I’m not convinced Jameis provides the ROI to justify making the rest of the team less competitive over the long run.
January 10th, 2020 at 1:45 pm
Let Jameis go and this team will go even further into a drought of horror. I don’t understand this fan base that wants to just let the offense go to shambles when our defense has finally showed up…why not see how the two go together for a change for an entire season? I’m begging for the fans to not mess this up again. Go Bucs! Glazers do the right thing and bring back Jameis!
January 10th, 2020 at 1:48 pm
Hamsadwitchtime Says:
January 10th, 2020 at 1:25 pm
Yea geno- he had no production… lol.
I have said all offseason that I would rather sign the defensive guys because of their production. I am different than most on this site in that I feel there are different ways you can win in this league.
There is a dialogue this post season about the Bucs getting more rushing yards and then they would be in the playoffs. Well many of the best rushing teams had QB’s that were excellent in the RPO. We are not that team. Do I think you have to be that kind of team to win. NO.
But I do have an opinion that getting our defense back to a more elite status might be the smarter move than invest in Winston at $30 million a year.
Sorry to disagree with you but I do.
I think Winston wants more than $30 million a year. Maybe the choice is to franchise him but that is a bad long term plan is a 1 year plan. So again if I can sign all our defensive guys to 3 to 5 year contracts that worked, I would do that and try to find another solution to QB if that is what it means for our long term.
Again, I just disagree with you.
January 10th, 2020 at 1:56 pm
The vast majority of true Bucs fans DO NOT want Winston here.
After 5 years of watching Winston’s failures and listening to his coaches’ excuses , fans have had enough.
If the Bucs make the very unpopular decision to bring Winston back, the fan base will continue to dwindle, Ray Jay will continue to empty out, and it will cost the Bucs a lot of money in Corporate sponsorships and advertisers.
Bucs need to do something at the QB position that will energize and excite the fan base, and bringing back Winston isn’t it
January 10th, 2020 at 2:04 pm
I can’t help but think that if JayMiss were white then the hate would be the same…… ya know, because he sucks!
Stop with the stupid racism sh!t.
There are a few racist outliers no doubt, but how the hell can you be an NFL fan if you are?
January 10th, 2020 at 2:04 pm
I can’t help but think that if JayMiss were white then the hate would be the same…… ya know, because he sucks!
Stop with the stupid racism sh!t.
There are a few racist outliers no doubt, but how the hell can you be an NFL fan if you are?
January 10th, 2020 at 2:05 pm
Only unpopular to Gators and idiots. Frustrating as hell for the rest of us- of course. Bucs fans understand that we have never had anyone with this potential. Get him an o-line and running game. Matt Gay, get your spit together and Defense keep improving. Kirk Cousins was unpopular in Minnesota with the media and fans and his 2 best wide receivers. Smarter People in management stuck with him. In his immortal words -“You Like That?” Of course that was against our Beloved Bucs, but I get it, it counts as a JW loss.
January 10th, 2020 at 2:12 pm
A great defense – that’s what the Bucs had when they won the Super Bowl. Great defense usually beats a great offense. You win in the trenches on both sides of the ball. Great defense is what the Bucs were starting with Leroy Selmon and going through Warren Sapp, Derrick Brooks, Rhonde Barber, John Lynch and Simeon Rice.
We won the Super Bowl with a slightly above average quarterback, Brad Johnson, who didn’t turn the ball over. We have an offense now that lit it up but couldn’t win.
The defense now was among the best in run defense. They even lead at times.
Preserve the current front seven strength. The young DBs came around in the last quarter of the season. Get a first class safety either in draft or free agency.
Pick up an offensive tackle and decent Running back.
Then you win with an above average quarterback who doesn’t turn the ball over.
January 10th, 2020 at 2:13 pm
The QB position requires solid play. That’s the minimum requirement to win consistently. If you think Winston is playing solid football then you probably also think Johnny Manziel is a great quarterback…. oh wait
January 10th, 2020 at 2:20 pm
The Glazer’s share of the NFL TV rights revenue is $255 million……the 2019 Salary Cap is $188.2 million. That leaves about $67 million for salaries for staff & coaches……stadium fees and other operational expenses…..
You can add the ticket revenue, merchandise & concessions….
I don’t know those figures but it seems reasonable to assume that the Glazers are making plenty of money without filling the stadium….
No….most businesses want to maximize revenues so I’m sure they care….but winning is more important than the personality & popularity of the Quarterback.
January 10th, 2020 at 2:21 pm
Now….most businesses
January 10th, 2020 at 2:24 pm
I cant help but laugh at the people saying everyone else has no football knowledge then saying stuff like “If we get JW back to 16 Ints, he’s a MVP candidate”… Newsflash when he was throwing 16 Ints he still wasnt an MVP candidate. FACTS! Oh and I love the “Its not your money” stupidity comments. No crap its not our money but if you had any football knowledge like you claim you would know it limits the salary cap. But by all means keep pretending you are so smart and the rest of us are soooo dumb. LMAO
January 10th, 2020 at 2:37 pm
I’ve read the negative comments about Jameis on here, and it’s made me negative in past posts. I didn’t mean to be a troll or disrespectful to anyone on here. We just have a difference of opinion, and that’s okay.
January 10th, 2020 at 2:38 pm
@tickrdr
The problem with that Fitzpatrick extrapolation is that he was trending WAY down after a 2 week start that massively inflated his #’s….
First 2 weeks 8 TD 1 INT
Last 6 weeks 9 TD 11 INT
That’s the problem in general with small sample sizes in general and extrapolation. You can flip things so quickly to paint a different picture
Jameis Winston’s last 6 starts 2018 11 TD 2 INT
Ryan Fitzpatricks last 6 starts 2018 9 TD 11 INT
See what I mean man?
And the end of 2018 is why many of us were hopeful with Jameis. He was playing the best ball of his career. Then 2019 happens and he predictably improved in YPA/deep ball / scoring efficiency under bA but no one saw THAT interception explosion coming lol.
January 10th, 2020 at 2:39 pm
This is such a no-brainer it hurts…. You find way to resign Shaq / JPP / Suh / Nassib before FA dinner bell rings (eating up $45-50M of 2020 Cap space)…& bring JW3 back via Franchise tag @ estimated $26.7M.
Then, if another team wants JW3 so bad that they are willing to pay his asking price long-term & dump 2 1st rd picks to get him. So be it!
If that happens, there’s going to be other Bridge QB options available…Many could have same/better success in BA’s system. There’s plenty of experienced FA QB that know when to throw it away or not throw into sucker coverage
on quick slants & wide side out patterns…Maybe the nxt guy won’t throw for 5K & 30+ TD’s, but I’m pretty sure we wouldn’t see 30INT’s & 7 pick6’s either!!! (Which WAS the difference between being in the play-offs & finishing 7-9!)
Either way, regardless if JW3 is resigned or tagged or TB brings in a FA QB…You still go get a young strong armed QB to develop…You still draft a QB in 2020…As even mid-1st Rd rookie contracts are good cost-controlled NFL BU QB contracts per today’s NFL QB market. As well as future trade capital, if either JW3 or FA QB stakes claim to TB QB1 going forward.
January 10th, 2020 at 2:41 pm
A half empty stadium will stay that way if Winston returns thats what kept me and my family away this year , and i know who cares right but its the only way i can show my disapproval of JW being the leader of this team , and you cant tell me theres not a deal to be made somewhere to bring a stable qb in here that we can all be proud of period .
January 10th, 2020 at 2:41 pm
Ryan Fitzpatrick first 2 games extrapolated out = 64 TDs / 8 INTs lmao
Ryan Fitzpatrick last 6 games extrapolated out = 24 TDs / 29 INTs
I’ll take the larger sample size especially when you consider weeks 1-3 are usually the weirdedst in the NFL with fluke performances
January 10th, 2020 at 2:51 pm
Minus the turnovers I love everything about Jameis. It’s really very simple you just can’t trust him with the ball.
January 10th, 2020 at 2:55 pm
catcard202 — totally agree. I would lock up our other pieces. Improve the OL & defense via the draft and then simply franchise Winston. I think this solves all the issues. If with an improved OL, rush attack & defense than we extend him to a long deal. If Winston doesn’t improve let him walk after the tag its really that simple.
January 10th, 2020 at 2:59 pm
The Bucs called me last week asking if I was interested in season tickets. I told the guy to call me back at the end of March because that’s when I’ll know what decision the Bucs have made on Jameis. I will not even consider a half-season ticket package if he is still the QB. I don’t believe the team can win with him over the long term so why would I invest?
January 10th, 2020 at 3:04 pm
Good for you, D-Rome!
I hope they report the reason why they were told “no”. The fans have spoken. And the apologists have been triggered. Happy 2020 JBF Nation!
January 10th, 2020 at 3:06 pm
Leadership starts at the top. It’s a cliche but it’s the truest of cliches! We can kvetch at GMs, HCs, OC, and DCs till we’re blue in the face. It doesn’t matter if leadership does not hold them accountable.
Jameis is only PART of the reason seats are empty in RayJay. And, guess what, the Glazers still make money! I won’t say they don’t care but, it doesn’t appear to be at the top of their list.
January 10th, 2020 at 3:06 pm
Wait till next season if Jameis absolutely sucks. There will be a mutiny.
January 10th, 2020 at 3:11 pm
Swampbuc Says:
January 10th, 2020 at 11:44 am
I’m afraid that even in 2020, much of the animosity toward Jameis would be softer if his skin color were different.
RACIST
January 10th, 2020 at 3:15 pm
I’m leaning that the Bucs will move on from Winston, tho I think it’s a HUGE mistake. The #1 reason people don’t like Winston has less to do with his INTs or the sexual allegations. The #1 reason is that the Bucs haven’t made the playoffs since 2008 and everyone needs someone to blame. Winston was brought in to a losing organisation as the #1 draft pick and given the responsibility of dragging out of the despair. Right or wrong this is the fact. No one player could over come the situation and he hasn’t helped himself. Koetter was a horrible hire at head coach and had no interest in developing a young QB either on or off the field. Arians is very capable, but this is 1-2 seasons too late. Not supporting with a running game, defense or special team for his entire career (defense was still 30th vs the pass this season and it feels like this is changing but it still was the weak link).
But the fan base is justifiably done with losing and done with Winston because they want a focal point to express their disdain toward the losing this franchise has endured. The QB is the easiest target always, and Winston has extra baggage (biggest is the ESPN bias starting on draft night, Winston’s own doing)
The Bucs have had a horrible overall plan for the past decade trying to win now even tho a total rebuild has been what was needed. Consistently overpaying stop gap players looking for a last check. Poor drafting, often reaching for need and ignoring BPA way too often. Pull up the drafts over the past 10 years and its EASY to understand just why the Bucs are struggling.
January 10th, 2020 at 3:19 pm
If BA wants to win immediately, future be damned, get either:
A) Andrew Luck if you can lure him out of retirement and aquire his rights reasonably.
B) Tom Brady if you can lure him out of NE.
C) Philip Rivers if you can stomach an older, wiser JayMiss clone.
He’ll win, most likely big, and ride off into the sunset leaving the franchise in shambles with Leftwich or Bowles holding the bag.
Peace, out.
January 10th, 2020 at 3:20 pm
D-Rome,
I’m sure that guy heard that thousands of times while making those calls…
I’m not committing to anything that only shows losing is acceptable and even applauded, being entertaining to play losing football…
January 10th, 2020 at 3:21 pm
When I looked at Joe’s poll over a couple of days, the anti – Jameis Numbers were 60+% VS 40+% pro Jameis. Don’t know how they ended at 50/50%
And looking at the stands the last few games looked to me like under 50% in attendance. But maybe the Glazer boys like that. I haven’t trusted their decision making since they didn’t allow Gruden to spend any money, then fired him.
January 10th, 2020 at 3:23 pm
Given the state of the organization.. Signing any QB to a huge salary is dumb. The only way I bring back Winston is on a short term (2-3 years) team friendly deal that allows the Bucs to resign the front 7 and address the RT. If he doesn’t want to assist the team that has stood by him and given him a platform to develop his skills, well he isn’t a guy I want around. If he wants to win, I want him here and the only way I see is to keep improving the team around him.
If he wants to be a top 5 paid QB for a team who lets him run up stats (I believe this happened this year, to get to 5K yards. No way a QB should be throwing tennis balls all week then come out, shoot up the thumb and play. He’s in a hard cast now after all) he can find a new team.
January 10th, 2020 at 3:26 pm
Want to be more popular, swallow your ego, take a short term team friendly deal, that allows for the team to get better around you. His agent (who I believe does him no favors) should be looking at the tea leaves now and understanding the big picture.
January 10th, 2020 at 3:28 pm
Is there any Buc fan like me out there? After witnessing the early season fiascos, I started rooting for Jameis to throw an INT! And, he accommodated every time. You knew he would do it. He has thrown some beautiful long passes this year. He has bounced back from first-pass ints to throw well (several times). IT DOESN’T MATTER! You can’t keep going into the 4th qtr expecting to have an int kill a late rally. If you’re a defensive lineman beating your head against OLs all game long only to have it go up in smoke it HAS TO CRUSH your morale. And, the fans as well.
Let some other team fix his problems (long wind up, staring down receivers, and my favorite- – not seeing a defender and throwing into his breadbasket. The NFL is a game whereby fans pay to see in person or with DTV subscription or with free TV with their 3-4 hours per Sunday. IT IS NOT FUN WATCHING THIS CLOWN! Let him go.
January 10th, 2020 at 3:30 pm
I’ll go as far to say, if it takes the Franchise Tag to keep him, he should not be brought back. Thats not a team guy, thats a guy playing hardball.
January 10th, 2020 at 3:41 pm
If its about popularity, cut him. If its about winning, cut him. If its about entertainment, go to the movies.
January 10th, 2020 at 3:51 pm
If you put the Bucs first then players then you should no issues.
NOTHING STOPS ME FROM MY BUCS
And if I ever decide to leave this team it will be because of its annoying, crying fanbase. Geez it’s a huge turn off for sure.
Look Bucs are losers. Just deal with it
January 10th, 2020 at 3:56 pm
JW has totally lost my trust. He’s wildly inconsistent and the spread between HOF level and HS QB level is just too great. Looked great this year in LA…looked beyond lost in Cincinnati last year.
But my rep is not on the line. BA can either finish on a high note or leave as a loser. It’s his butt on the line so I’ll respect his choice whether I agree or not.
So I’m clearly not a JW lover…but tying our attendance woes to him is probably a bridge too far. In fairness this is a problem that is league wide. It’s been growing. JW does NOT play in every NFL city but it’s league with the attendance problems and it’s only going to get worse.
Has anybody heard of income inequality. Young working class people have been priced out with no commensurate raises. Hell hard working folks aren’t even worth $15/hr. Sports used to attract a lot of Joe Six Packs. In today’s economy that’s just too big a sacrifice for today’s Joe six pack.
This is perhaps the best analysis I’ve seen of this growing problem.
https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2020/01/06/nfl-tv-ratings-attendance-stadiums-live-games/
NFL television viewership and attendance are going in opposite directions.
That’s good seeing that the NFL gets most of its income from television deals and those deals are all coming up after 2021. The league has rebounded from a few down years recently — for whatever reason fits your fancy — to show that it’s still the king of the hill when it comes to live sports content.
The only problem for the league is that although television ratings are up — again, good — it seems like people aren’t actually going to games at the stadium — this would be bad.
Some of this trend could be self-inflicted. The NFL lifted its blackout rules That’s a good thing. Games are expensive and building a fan base is important. Television is the best way to reach young viewers.
Of course, there could be bigger problems for the NFL. Younger fans — read the future of their cashflow — may just eschew the whole experience. Going to a game is a lot of work.
January 10th, 2020 at 4:02 pm
LaMarcus,
I am with you on your stance about the Bucs. Even though we have different opinions on Decision Jameis, we can agree: Go Bucs!
January 10th, 2020 at 4:05 pm
Bucs fan need hope. What hope to you have if you re-sign a turnover machine who is getting WORSE (passer rating, QBR) by any objective measure.
January 10th, 2020 at 4:10 pm
I put my pants on backwards, must be Jameis’ fault.
January 10th, 2020 at 4:11 pm
I laugh now when posters on this site say that if the owners listened to the fans the team would be worse off. News flash the owners have not exactly been terrific. Coach killer Winston is not a fan favorite unless you’re an FSU jock sniffer. If ownership resigns this clown for any reason there will be a ton of empty seats in the stands next year. Nobody in their right mind thinks that it takes 6 years to cut down on a bone headed mistakes.
January 10th, 2020 at 4:13 pm
Lamarcus i am a buc fan from 1976 and i suffered threw alot but when you have a way out and do not take it ,and i have wanted JW to shine from day one but its not going to happen with this dude , but they will probably sign him anyway and i will support the team . just not at the games
January 10th, 2020 at 4:19 pm
The snowflakes claiming if you don’t like Winston you’re a racist is hilarious. Yes because people were just so kind to Trent Dilfer because he was white. Keep reaching people. Personally I would love to see the Bucs gets Jalen Hurtz or anybody for that matter.
January 10th, 2020 at 4:27 pm
D-Rome
Same hear.
I love my Bucs, but as long as Winston is here, they get no more of my money
January 10th, 2020 at 4:46 pm
Winston or no Winston, it’s a better experience at home. If the Glazers are serious they do this to Ray Jay. https://images.app.goo.gl/ZSuUG8k6o6XgcRBV6
January 10th, 2020 at 4:56 pm
Race should not be in the conversation is a cowards way out JW is just not a good qb and who ever saying that needs more help than this site can give them .
January 10th, 2020 at 5:00 pm
Not to say race did not have its impact here Doug Williams is my all time favorite QB you should read his book Quaterblack its a great book from an outstanding human being .
January 10th, 2020 at 5:29 pm
Bottom line-
If Jameis had not thrown 6 interceptions (2-pick 6’s) in last 2 games, Bucs would have finished 9-7 and fans would be excited about next year and ticket sales would be up.
Stop blaming Gay, the game didn’t end on his misses.
Jameis did this to himself.
January 10th, 2020 at 5:36 pm
Let’s try to to create a false choice — Winston vs. go back to having a terrible offense and losing 10+ games
I’m pretty sure Arians can win with a lot of different QB’s
Arians is a real coach with an experienced understanding of team building and QB play and development
I’ll take the field over Winston — I suspect there are at least a half dozen available QB’s that can generate > 7 wins with this super talented roster
January 10th, 2020 at 5:47 pm
Jameis playing consistently well (good luck with that) and winning football games will cure much of the apathy for the team and Jameis. Let’s get this dude a monster running back (my old a$$ will do backflips if we land Derrick Henry) and a solid right tackle. Also, don’t neglect to draft a quarterback and sign one in free agency that has actually accomplished something in the league. I’m not crazy about the potential free agent quarterbacks, but everyone thought that Rich Gannon was washed up before Gruden repaired him too. Fans (at least me) would feel that the front office is more competent if they had a backup plan for when Jameis most likely fails again this year. It’s just like Aliens or Bigfoot man. You gotta show me to believe.
January 10th, 2020 at 7:38 pm
The last time the Glazers listened to idiotic fans, and fired Jon Gruden, it bit them in the pooper for a decade and some change.
January 10th, 2020 at 7:50 pm
Swampbuc Says:
January 10th, 2020 at 11:44 am
I’m afraid that even in 2020, much of the animosity toward Jameis would be softer if his skin color were different.
Only Idiots and Racists bring up skin color in a spot like this.
I believe you are both sir.
January 10th, 2020 at 8:23 pm
90 percent of all the other NFL teams would have cut ties with this guy 2 years ago……..But we are the Bucs
January 10th, 2020 at 8:33 pm
Bucsace
Agreed.
The market for Winston would be very cold as the other NFL teams know that he should be a backup at best
January 10th, 2020 at 9:57 pm
After reading the article about who would be interested if he hit the market, I don’t believe he’d get 20 million. He wasn’t a top 10 qb last year so why should he get too 10 money.
January 10th, 2020 at 10:02 pm
Simple – WIN (home games especially) and the fans will show up, regardless of JW being the QB, or another QB.
I would prefer for JW to get a fresh start somewhere else (holding clipboard or other).
Strongly believe BA re-signs JW to FA Tag contract. While 30 INTs are horrible, 5000 yds is not a fluke accomplishment, especially ending the year absent of the two best WR’s in NFL, and no threat in running game.
January 10th, 2020 at 11:34 pm
If Bucs had a run game that avg 145yds a game…JW3 isn’t tossing it 45-50x a game – more like 30-32 cutting his turnovers by a 1/3… & Bucs are probably playing football this weekend!
January 11th, 2020 at 12:07 am
Guys it is plain and simple: it is because of the off field things. Half of the fan base left when they drafted him and the remaining half left after the uber driver’s claim and suspension. Like it or not, think it’s fair or wrong, it is true.
That stadium is half empty every game, and about 60% of that is Bucs fans. The Glazers need to get their heads out of their asses and load up on high character guys (and not flirt with the likes of Greg Hardy please). And they’ve got to cut ties with Jameis—he’s got too much baggage, it was so public, he’s too prominent.
Guys like us get caught up in thinking “winning/stopping turnovers, etc…. that would do it !
January 11th, 2020 at 1:09 am
Here is what will happen.
3 year deal 75million 1st Year guaranteed
Or Franchise Tag.
Jameis in my opinon is worth 20-24 million with his upside.
Sad thing is that we can get the same results with a 15 million or less QB and an improved team.
One thing Tampa has going for them is there will be the strongest QB Free Agency in the history of the league.
Also there are some good QB in the draft.
Jameis picked the wrong year to throw Pick 6’s at the end of the season
January 11th, 2020 at 8:05 am
I still say trade Winston for Carr straight up. Or maybe even Dalton. Keep RG as back up & draft QB around the 3rd rd. I knew it was only a matter of time before someone pulled out the race card.
January 11th, 2020 at 9:03 am
Besides his interceptions, if he is not listening to his coaches that’s more reason to move on. Sign a vet and use your 2nd or 3rd round pick to draft Jacob Eason or Jordan Love.
January 11th, 2020 at 9:59 am
Thegregwitul Says:
This is why the ‘America’s QB’ nickname is such a joke; half of the Bucs fan base doesn’t like Winston”
~~~~~~~~~~
It has always been entertaining to me that SO MANY JBF fans seem to have missed the boat on the “America’s QB” moniker… at least in my humble opinion.
What you wrote above… is exactly WHY the moniker works. The support of Jameis is split right down the middle…. with those who support and those who are against…….. often at each other’s throats.
Sound familiar?
American politics, for instance….
I always thought the moniker was spot on.
January 11th, 2020 at 10:11 am
As far as the theme of this article…..
I have been a supporter of Jameis for a long time and have battled with some of you on here over that fact. I still believe that it makes more sense than not for us to bring him back and see what he can do in year 2 for Bruce.
All that being said……
There is a growing sentiment within me that maybe it would be better, FOR THE BUCS FAN BASE as a WHOLE….. if we move on. — I am tired of seeing the entire fanbase just ripped apart over 1 individual player (no matter WHO that player is).
We shall see. If he is back, I will continue wearing that #3 jersey, and watching him sling the ball over the field…. hopefully a few less times slinging it to “the other guys.”
January 11th, 2020 at 10:59 am
Yeah, so when we bring Winston back and we watch another repeat of his lack of the need for Ball security, and no that is not him wearing his jock strap. What will we do then? Bring him back one more season just in case he finally learns that? When do we cut the cord? Will we/they Ever? We keep reading how no other QB can ever replace Winston, really? No one can win more games than his W&L record? Can we at least try and see if anyone can replace the joebucsfan anointed “savior” and “America’s QB”? Missouri over here. The Show Me Event of the 2019 season was not a blockbuster, more of a cliffhanger that didn’t end well. Yeah great, 5000+ yards and 33 TD’S and 30 INT’S with another losing record. Along with the norm of a losing record in our Division. Go Winston…. please.
January 11th, 2020 at 11:19 am
I’m apathetic towards the losing thus year. The way the 30 INT went down was Shakespearean. Couldn’t help but chuckle, and say “yeah, it’s a MFing Bucs life”. Much to my surprise, Arians didn’t hold back when talking about the loss/QB/game ending pick.
This team is built to win, get a top QB.
January 11th, 2020 at 11:39 am
There have been times that I have come close to giving up on the Bucs, but the reason has never been Jameis. It has always been the despicable owners.
January 11th, 2020 at 5:05 pm
John Lynch should have been GM three years ago Licht should have been fired three years ago. Thx Glazers.
January 11th, 2020 at 6:03 pm
2-6 through the first eight games with a crap defense. 5-3 through the last eight games with a decent defense, and that’s with a fractured thumb, pathetic FG kicking, no Evans for three games, and no Godwin for the last two. First year in a new system with the usual atrocious ground attack as well. I want to see what a healthy Jameis can do in a second season in this system. 28 points should be enough to win some games.
January 11th, 2020 at 8:59 pm
What if Tannehill had been backing up Winston last season?
January 11th, 2020 at 11:42 pm
Jamies has to go, interception machine… come to Tampa TB12