Jameis Out Of The Pocket
December 10th, 2019
Stunning numbers.
Joe will never forget the scene, and Joe’s reaction.
It was the first episode “Hard Knocks” and the scene was Mr. Entertainment, America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston, having a sitdown in then-Bucs coach Dirk Koetter’s office. At the time, it was well-known how much Jameis looked up to Tom Brady and wanted to be like Brady.
But in that conversation for the world to see, Koetter told Jameis he was more like Aaron Rodgers.
Joe nearly fell off his couch and thought Koetter was totally off his rocker if not reckless. How could he say that?
Later that year, numbers surfaced that showed Jameis was actually more proficient rolling outside the pocket than inside the pocket.
(Joe has also noticed that when Jameis rolls to his left — which almost every coach warns right-handed quarterbacks not to do — Jameis is deadly accurate.)
It seems this knack for throwing outside the pocket continues for Jameis. Over at FiveThirtyEight.com, a stat geeky site, someone by the name of Josh Hermsmeyer has documented each quarterback’s QBR (BSPN’s version of quarterback rating) when throwing both inside and outside the pocket.
There are only two quarterbacks with a higher number than Jameis. That would be Carson Wentz and Russell Wilson.
In the pocket, Jameis is in the Daniel Jones, Mitch Trubisky neck of the woods.
So far in his NFL days, Jameis has played in these Don Coryell-like offenses where he wings it down the field. Joe has always wondered what Jameis would be like in a West Coast offense?
Of course, if as Koetter said Jameis is so good outside the pocket, and the numbers continue to support Koetter’s now two-year old claim, why haven’t or can’t Bucs coaches mold an offense to take advantage of that strength?
Jameis sure doesn’t seem to run many designed rollouts, and when he does escape the pocket it appears that’s because of the pass rush, not a set play.
December 10th, 2019 at 9:06 am
Noone can deny that Jameis Plays best outside of the pocket moving around.
…….Jameis really isn’t your classic Pocket quarterback.
December 10th, 2019 at 9:10 am
not a pocket QB because he has no “pocket awareness” or full vision of the field back there…he’s a one trick pony > fastball to the primary receiver.
December 10th, 2019 at 9:13 am
what bruce said, times three!!!!!
December 10th, 2019 at 9:22 am
This is what i’m certain of…..if there was any hint of a chance that rolling Winston out gave us a competitive advantage, we would do it. The reality is simple….if he’s not doing it well at practice, its not being implemented into the game plan when there’s live bullets.
Folks are always like….”we should just do this”….as if the coaching staff isn’t aware of that possibility. They are well aware, the problem is getting it to work in a designed format vs free styling on a busted play. If there was anything that would make Winston more effective and less turnover prone, the coaching staff would utilize it. Both Koetter and now Arians have seemingly come to the same conclusion, while it works out on busted plays its impossible to execute on designed plays. Winston’s ball placement and decision making standing still are suspect…..adding movement with less protection likely increases the chance for screw ups too much for comfort.
December 10th, 2019 at 9:31 am
what Bruce said x4
December 10th, 2019 at 9:35 am
Preach it brother!!! I’ve never understood this!
JW not only appears more relaxed and focused outside of the pocket…he has VERY deceptive running skills. Because he is so incredibly slow it’s easy to write him off. No he’s not going to take it to the house but how many times has he converted first downs with his legs…or the combo of his legs and arm.
When a QB rolls right…as long as we don’t allow a DE or LB to shoot through…the pressure shifts dramatically to the defense..
Stay back and cover your man and let JW take off…come up and force JW leaving a target open.
I absolutely do not want JW’s competitive spirit and ego to get in the way. I haven’t seen that this year. He seems to be very good and has the ability to make decisions to get down…slide and protect his health.
As long as he doesn’t go all Cam Newton and try to truck DL’s I’m for turning him loose.
December 10th, 2019 at 9:38 am
To say jameis has no pocket awareness is absurd.
December 10th, 2019 at 9:40 am
Bucs traded the wrong qb !!. Fitz is rated a much better qb by the nfl with half the talent . The bucs turn over qb will never take the team to a super bowl ..(unless you went to the same school:>))
December 10th, 2019 at 9:45 am
I would beg to disagree. He has very good pocket awareness. The problem is he has a very inconsistent line. They seem to fail at different times multiple times including the RB for blitz pickups. Every time Jameis gets going with his comfort in the pocket, D Smith fails and he gets blindsided. Then when he is trying to move to his right to by more time then Dotson seems to fail. So then he tries to step up and then the guards miss the block. When the lines is good then the backs go the wrong way and leave a linebacker or DL open. It is really hard for a QB to stay in rhythm that way. Rodgers has consistent blocking from his tackles, Big Ben had it from his center and tackles. Wilson has been close to having the problem, but it fits his playing style more than Jameis. You are seeing it this year with Brady hence his frustration. He has had line problems and causing him to be faster than he has been in the past. When Jameis has the time he goes 4 or 5 deep with this progressions.
Jameis is more like Big Ben which is why BA likes him. Just without the running game. When Big Ben didn’t have a running game he threw just as many Int’s and had 2, 5 int games. When you are throwing the ball 40 or 50 times you are going to have bad picks.
Jameis needs another year in the system. I have said all along this was the year for BA to see what he had. Now he knows that RJ really a rookie this year not a total bust like everyone thought. Payton is not a bell cow, they need to give Cappa another year. Move D Smith to RT and get a LT. That will allow the running game and passing game to get better. Add another OLB pass rusher on D. Get another RB either in the draft or Free Agency and let these young guys develop with 2 years in the systems.
I think you will see major improvement. Weather you like it or not his numbers in the total yardage are not being put up by garbage QB’s.
He is 2nd in attempts to only Tom Brady and is only 2 points behind him in ratings. He is averaging 50 more passing yards a game than Brady. He has almost twice as many sacks. I am not saying he is better or as good, but in the same situation. He has better WR than Brady, but line play is clearly along with no running game. It isn’t that teams are stopping the run. We just can’t properly block for the run and backs not seeing the holes or bad vision. This is clear if you watch the games for it.
Just my humble opinion.
December 10th, 2019 at 9:55 am
No pocket awareness? Hahahaha that’s the funniest thing I’ve heard in a while. Do you watch the games? Or do you not understand the term?
December 10th, 2019 at 10:21 am
@Eric…watched almost every game since about 1979… he has poor awareness of the rush leading to plenty of sacks and fumbles. he locks onto primary receiver, he throws high or behind receivers constantly…just generally SUCKS!, enough said…
December 10th, 2019 at 10:22 am
Bingo!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks Joe I have been wondering that since Koetter days. Certainly it would lower his sack numbers. Also for whatever reason Jameis sees the field better when outside the pocket so his turnovers would be less. I was praying for Jon Gruden to come here since his style is closer to a West Coast offense. Arians offense is great there’s no doubt but I think if they incorporated some West Coast plays(rather than completely convert to West Coast which Arians I dont see ever doing) It would take Jameis to the next level in his development. Didnt this coaching staff talk about using players to their best ability? Well on the run short to medium range passes are Winstons strength.
December 10th, 2019 at 10:28 am
@ben you continue to mwke evrryone that reads your posts dumber. Go root for your boy mariota on the bench, he needs a little pat on the back.
December 10th, 2019 at 10:35 am
29th in completion percentage, 25th in QB rating, #1 in interceptions, #3 in times sacked, #3 in fumbles, worse win-loss record than Josh Freeman…yeah, but those yards LOL
December 10th, 2019 at 10:49 am
#3 scoring offense, #2 passing yards, and #3 TD passes
December 10th, 2019 at 10:51 am
Bucs have won 3 in row and 4 out of the last 5 games. Winston will be the starting QB next year.
December 10th, 2019 at 10:52 am
Ben
Fitztragic was not traded he was a free agent.
December 10th, 2019 at 10:58 am
idiaznet
Excellent post and I totally agree with your points.
December 10th, 2019 at 11:03 am
What Steve said X3.
December 10th, 2019 at 11:06 am
does this site have Russian bots now to defend WinSTUNNED? Are you all blind? He doesn’t have”it”…A career backup…
December 10th, 2019 at 11:11 am
Bruce…will you continue your quest to oust Winston after he’s resigned? lol
December 10th, 2019 at 11:12 am
Bruce you might be the most ignorant guy on this site. It’s gotta be you or steveK. Jameis isn’t going anywhere and if he does it will not be to be a backup.
December 10th, 2019 at 11:15 am
Glazers are mental if they pay this guy after all the turmoil…and most importantly – crappy quarterbacking
December 10th, 2019 at 11:17 am
Bruce Blahak Says:
“Glazers are mental”
BINGO!!!
You should brace yourself.
December 10th, 2019 at 11:29 am
There are plenty of angles. Inside pocket, outside pocket, rolling left, rolling right, inconsistent/poor O line play, coaching carousel, playcalling, and on and on. A long time ago there was an up and coming gunslinger with a rocket arm. He too threw alot of INTs throughout his career. But nobody in their right mind would deny Brett Favre his place in NFL lore.
Calm down. Im not saying JW is the next Favre. However, if you watched Favre play, its easy to see the similarities. The biggest difference is coaching. Favre had Holmgren. In his 5th season, Winston has had 3 head coaches. Each with very different schemes. And has still managed to put the Buccaneers in the top 4 in passing offense the past 2 seasons and is currently 2nd in that category.
The numbers show alot of INTs. They also show a porous secondary, HORRIBLE special teams play, and a running game that left Tampa with Dunn and Alstott.
Here’s to hoping Bucco Bruce is the answer. It looks like the Bucs may have turned that proverbial corner, but with this team we’ll just have to wait and see.
Go Bucs
#realfansdonthate
December 10th, 2019 at 11:35 am
i don’t think designed rollouts would work as well. that production comes from chemistry with guys like brate, evans, and formerly humphries who know how to take advantage of Jameis’ skills in scramble drills (scrambling mostly lands you outside the pocket). those plays can’t be designed, they are effective because guys are improvising not because jameis’ brain magically works better outside the hash marks
December 10th, 2019 at 12:00 pm
29th in completion percentage, 25th in QB rating, #1 in interceptions, #3 in times sacked, #3 in fumbles, worse win-loss record than Josh Freeman…yeah, but those yards LOL…… RIGHT
JAYMISS WINSNOT isnt worth 25 -30 million …. he isnt …. Go to busch gardens if you want to ride the rollercoaster…. he had HIS 5 years and its the same movie over and over and over again ….he just needs more time >>>> GEEEZ YOUR KILLING ME!!!
December 10th, 2019 at 12:19 pm
@idiaznet
I agree! This O Line needs improvements, have to protect our QB!
Go Bucs!
December 10th, 2019 at 12:23 pm
thanks cgmaster.. U always make a comment on my post …Please don’t have a man crush on me too.
December 10th, 2019 at 12:58 pm
part of this is skewed joe, because he is not out of the pocket on purpose,
since he is out of the pocket due to pressure, it is fair to say a non-zero portion of those examples are due to blitzes, therefore the player is more likely to be open.
Perhaps the designed roll-outs are not called because his number regresses back to the mean if there was not a blitz called, even if he rolls out.
December 10th, 2019 at 1:39 pm
Bruce, Jameis does have pocket awareness. That’s why he’s out of the pocket a lot of the times lol. It may not be great, but to say he has none at all is a lie. Jameis does have a habit of locking onto the primary receiver too long, and not going through his progressions quickly enough, though. That’s his biggest flaw. It’s almost like he trusts the play & his presnap reads a little too much. Instead of reacting to the defense reacting to the play. But that weakness is negated outside of the pocket because that’s when he actually reads the field & reacts at an elite level.
Once he learns how to CONSTANTLY survey the field, he’ll be a top 3 QB. Because that alone would eliminate half his picks.
December 10th, 2019 at 1:41 pm
Bruce if you have been watching since ’79, then clearly you see what Jameis can do the others can’t. Yes that includes his interceptions. We have NEVER had a QB that puts up these numbers, yes that includes his interceptions too. This is exciting football, something that this Bucs organization has NEVER had. The problem is that the GM has hung JW out to dry for 4 straight drafts. He has gotten him no O-line unless you include a Division 3 reach (that may just pan out, btw) and an undrafted RB, a 5th rounder that couldn’t read the playbook and a 2nd rounder that couldn’t catch, read the playbook or block. Oh by the way for the entire 5 years has had the worst or second worst defense in the entire NFL. Dude if you have been around that long and can’t see that…then you are just a gator or worse. Most of my friends that actually went to UF love JW as our QB. Is he perfect, of course not. Does he need to cut down on INTs, of course. But dude is 25 years old and is putting up these numbers with this much garbage around him, well you are not a true Bucs fan. If you want to go back to Leeman Bennett, Mike Shula, Ray Perkins- Well you can jump your a$$ right of the Bucs train that will be coming next year. If you really have been a fan since ’79 which btw, is when I started with season tickets, then you should be sh*tting golden bricks over this guy.
December 10th, 2019 at 1:45 pm
BucnJoe-Good analysis, but a lot of this is because he truly only has time to look at his first read most of the time before he is running for his life. Even when he has time, he knows that clock is ticking. Yes he has been in the league for 5 years, but he is still only 25. You have to have TIME in the pocket to survey the field.I agree he will be top 3, infact he is this year, in almost every category, unfortunately that includes INTs.
December 10th, 2019 at 2:03 pm
The Coach will (is making) Jameis a winner.
Look at the awesome play of Tannehill since he started playing for a good Coach.
December 10th, 2019 at 2:31 pm
I screamed for Tannehill…..but noooooooooo…..
December 10th, 2019 at 3:31 pm
So you want to Roll hmmout all the time? Cut the field in half.. that’ll work.
December 10th, 2019 at 4:35 pm
Jameis sure doesn’t seem to run many designed rollouts, and when he does escape the pocket it appears that’s because of the pass rush, not a set play.
i disagree joe…. every play that has dotson and d smith on the field is a designed roll out….
December 10th, 2019 at 4:41 pm
Winston IS the modern-day version of Favre!! That is ACCURATE to a T!!
He is a true gunslinger. I LOVE his ability to make a mistake, and put it behind him. SNAP & CLEAR! There aren’t a ton of QB’s that have that mentality.
I really do think he would kill it in a West Coast system when you can get the ball out quicker. Unfortunately, his whole tenure in the NFL has been in the system of longer-developing plays.
When he is throwing that many times in a game in that type of system, sacks & INT’s are blind to happen.
That’s why the BUCS need to FINALLY give him 2 things:
1) An AVERAGE defense (16th in total D / points scored)
2) A solid running game..
Jameis has NEVER had either of those.
That needs to be the goal in this next draft & F/A!!
Re-sign Barrett, JPP, Nassib, & maybe Suh (if he wants to be here)
Sign veteran corner & safety…Hope Justin Evans finally heals
Sign a veteran Guard, move Cappa to RT
DRAFT the trenches – DT, DE, OL, & explosive RB to put w Rojo (or if we could steal Derrick Henry, I’m game!!)
December 10th, 2019 at 6:12 pm
Chicago is THE FIT!!! Nagy + Jameis, that D, and a run game?? They’d KILL the Bucs with ANY qb. I’ll take Allen Robinson over Mike all day. He makes more plays out of nothing for his team.
December 10th, 2019 at 7:40 pm
The best part of the new Mr Entertainment moniker?
As soon as my eyes hit it they can jump ahead without having to read “America’s quarterback pro bowler”
December 10th, 2019 at 11:32 pm
Tval, go to Chicago and support the Bears. We don’t need you here.
December 10th, 2019 at 11:38 pm
I was just defending my fandom against trolling
December 11th, 2019 at 12:15 am
JJBuc, agreed & thanks, man. I thought about the Oline too. I don’t know how I forgot to mention it lol.