Bias
December 4th, 2019
Defending Rondé Barber.
Here we go again.
Yes, Rondé Barber is a semifinalist for the Pro Football Hall of Fame class of 2020.
And in the NFL Films All-Time team that is being featured on NFL Network (on which Lee Roy Selmon and Derrick Brooks were named last week), Barber is not a finalist for this honor.
And for closet Bucs fan Peter Schrager, that’s a shame.
The co-host of “Good Morning Football,” seen weekday mornings on NFL Network, used his forum to lobby for Barber to, as JoeBucsFan.com columnist and Pro Football Hall of Fame voter Ira Kaufman would say, “get in the room” as a finalist so Ira can somehow work his magic and try to get Barber past the bias that is against him.
From what Ira has told Joe, many NFL insiders outside the Tampa Bay area consider Barber a “system” corner. To Joe, this is just lazy analysis if not an uneducated bias. Why hold it against a player if he did what he was told and did it better than anyone else?
My gosh, all sorts of players are in the Pro Football Hall of Fame that you could classify as “system” players.
Would Joe Montana had thrived under a more conventional dropback offense with Don Coryell if he hadn’t played for Bill Walsh?
Would Lawrence Taylor have been the freak he was if he played in a 43 defense instead of Bill Parcells’ 34?
Would Larry Wilson have been the terror at safety he was if his coaches didn’t have him blitz? (Wilson is credited with popularizing the safety blitz in an era when it was seldom used and he regularly blew up quarterbacks as a result.)
How about Chuck Noll’s system? How many defenders are in the Hall of Fame from those dominant 1970s Steelers? They all played in a system defense.
Joe could go on and on about this “system” nonsense. To Joe, that is weak sauce for guys who can’t brainstorm a better excuse to put a candidate down.
You can see Schrager make his case for Barber in the video below. Also, catch co-host Nate Burleson’s comment about Barber at the very end.
“If you look at the numbers, the impact on that @Buccaneers franchise, and the versatility he displayed at both cornerback and safety – there is more than merely a Hall of Fame argument to make for Ronde Barber. I am surprised he’s not in yet.” — @PSchrags pic.twitter.com/VfrqFGmlQ3
— GMFB (@gmfb) December 4, 2019
December 4th, 2019 at 11:12 am
Biggest INT in franchise history!
December 4th, 2019 at 11:13 am
If only Ronde had a signature play to win a playoff game or had a remarkably long tenure…oh wait…. Well, he didn’t really make any impact plays like sacks or turnovers..what’s that you say…he is the only CB in the history of the NFL with 25 sacks and 40 interceptions? That’s one hell of a system. So, naturally there are plenty of corners who ran the Tampa Two who have similar numbers–none, you say? Geesh. The dude was a stud. Period. It is an embarrassment that he is not in the HOF already.
December 4th, 2019 at 11:21 am
If he played in a large market team he would have been first ballot. Shame
December 4th, 2019 at 11:22 am
Unfortunately, I don’t think he gets in. Am I the only one who remembers how bad he was coming out of college? Don’t get me wrong what he accomplished was amazing, short in stature, not fast, not exceptional athletically. He made up for all of that with being smart, out working his opponents and yes, with help from one of the best defensive teams in NFL history.
If anyone from those years should be getting in, it should Monte Freakin Kiffin!
In BA I Trust!
December 4th, 2019 at 11:25 am
Almost forgot. He was also durable as hell. Dude was an Ironman. That longevity of fighting through injuries is to be commended. It also gave him the time rack up those stats.
December 4th, 2019 at 11:33 am
Such a dumb argument. Everyone is part of a system.
Pretty sure Steve Young doesn’t make the HOF if he stayed in Tampa.
Pretty sure Tom Brady doesn’t win 6 championships without Bellicheck and having top 5 defenses every year of his career with elite o-lines and quick passing systems.
lmao at referring to the Bucs and any sort of “system” based guarenteed results. THe Bucs if anything have systematically shown the league how to systematically suck for the entire life of the franchise outside this window when we put together an elite defense with elite players like Barber / Sapp / Lynch / Brooks / etc
December 4th, 2019 at 11:36 am
I think every player who played the game is a “system” guy. Has there been a team that had no “system”? Maybe sandlot football is without a system. Although some years it seems the Bucs have no system, I kid, but not really.
December 4th, 2019 at 11:47 am
Such BS; ronde and simeon rice deserve to be in the HOF. If you watched the bucs games closely they played several different coverages and schemes from 1, 2, 3, and 4. The bucs realistically should have played in at least 4 super bowls and that blame goes at tony dungy who is in the hall as he was too stubborn to realize that you may need to score 21 points a game with this defense and not 9. This defense should go down as one of the top 5 of all time but because of the fact that it played here and only went to one super bowl really hurts the overall GREATNESS of this defense as one of the best in NFL history
December 4th, 2019 at 11:53 am
Man that Bucs system really kept elite defenses churning out year after year no matter who the personnel was.
Oh wait that’s not reality whatsoever. The players made that defense and when they left the defense sucked.
lmao at “system”
December 4th, 2019 at 12:04 pm
Jamael Orondé Barber
Career Stats
• Games: 232 out of 241 ← Ranks 19th All-Time for All Players
• Defensive Interceptions: 47
• Int’s Touchdowns: 8 ← Ranks 8th All-Time for Defensive Player
• Passes Defended: 166
• Force Fumbles: 15
• Fumble Return TD’s: 4 ← Ranks 4th All-Time
• Non-Offensive TDs: 14 ← Ranks 4th All-Time
• Sacks: 28 ← Insane
• Tackles: 1028 ← Deion Sanders Only Has 493
NFL Career Non-Offensive Touchdowns Leaders
1. Devin Hester 20 (2006-2015) *
2. Deion Sanders+ 19 (1989-2005) HOF
3. Rod Woodson+ 17 (1987-2003) HOF
4. Ronde Barber 14 (1997-2012) *←
5. Brian Mitchell 13 (1990-2003) *
Note: Ronde didn’t return kicks though.
December 4th, 2019 at 12:08 pm
He defined today’s important position as a nickel CB…and has the unique stat of sacks and INTs by a DB. And longevity to boot. Should be a slam dunk but…
December 4th, 2019 at 12:14 pm
Makes you wonder why guys like –
Roger Wehrli & Albert Lewis aren’t in the Hall.
December 4th, 2019 at 12:22 pm
Ronde is a Hall of Fame player…..IMO more so then Lynch who benefitted much more from a system that was elevated by TWO Hall of Fame defenders, as well as Simeon Rice who in my opinion also ranks higher then Lynch when it comes to the HOF. That “system” also benefitted from an era of football that no longer exists….In today’s game, Lynch wouldn’t be considered elite because his biggest strength was hammering people across the middle…which is no longer allowed. With Barber, his skill set is still highly sought after and effective in today’s game. He had excellent technique…tackled extremely well….blitzed…created turnovers from savy play vs bone crushing hits. Ronde would have succeeded in multiple eras on multiple teams/schemes. He was a master of his craft.
December 4th, 2019 at 12:29 pm
NFL Passes Defended Career Leaders
• 1 Champ Bailey 203 (1999-2013)
• 2 Ronde Barber 197 (1997-2012)
Only Champ has more!
December 4th, 2019 at 12:33 pm
“If anyone from those years should be getting in, it should Monte Freakin Kiffin!”
Monte is not eligible for the Hall of Fame, he has already been inducted into the NFL Hall of Shame, therefore he is dead to all NFL fans.
Monte quit on his team during a Super Bowl run when they were 9-3. This selfish, despicable and cowardly act got the greatest Buccaneer coach of all time fired and destroyed the franchise for decades.
I just hope that they bury him locally when he dies so we don’t have travel too far to p1ss on his grave.
December 4th, 2019 at 12:37 pm
Wehrli is in the Hall.
December 4th, 2019 at 12:39 pm
I’ve been told by a few media members In the biggest media market “enough Bucs from that defense are in. Now if they had multiple Super Bowls, more players could get in”
I don’t think we see anymore Tampa defenders get in as this franchise wasted epic defenses year after year
December 4th, 2019 at 12:48 pm
a-bomb
well said…
i agree…he has everything you ask for….impact plays, production, longevity…
great in the community and he never embarrassed himself or the franchise….
he was a true professional….
GO BUCS!!!!!
December 4th, 2019 at 12:53 pm
Unfortunately, Ronde isn’t getting in. Does he deserve it? Of course. Because of the Bucs market even when they were good, too many of the voters didn’t get to watch Ronde and have that respect for him like they would a team that’s always getting primetime games such as the Giants or cowgirls. Compare Champ Bailey’s numbers to Ronde’s and Ronde blows him out of the water. 28 sacks for Ronde 3 for Barber. The voters will come up with some BS to back up leaving Ronde off but the real truth is twofold. 1) The voters consider the Bucs defense to have enough members in the HOF hence the John Lynch snub. 2) The market precludes many of the voters from knowing just how impactful Ronde was. Those of us that watched him especially those of us that were lucky enough to watch his whole career (with 1 team I might add) know how amazing he was. He’s more deserving than Lynch to be honest but I could state a strong case for Lynch as well.
December 4th, 2019 at 12:56 pm
3 for Bailey I meant.
December 4th, 2019 at 1:10 pm
Lol, when you spoke of Larry Wilson – it made me think about Wehrli.
I meant to post two AFC West Guys – Louis Wright Broncos & Albert Lewis Chiefs
December 4th, 2019 at 1:17 pm
LUV- Those “non-offensive TDs” are a telling stat, especially in the context of being a non-returner.
The short story is that he BELONGS in the HOF. PERIOD. End of story!
December 4th, 2019 at 1:38 pm
Bucs are always disrespected. Just look at LD’s numbers and he’s only been to one pro bowl.
December 4th, 2019 at 2:13 pm
Ghost – I completely forgot him leaving on bad terms and following his crazy son out west. Not a great way to go. But his results while he was here were awesome.
Btw Grudens demise in Tampa wasn’t on Kiffin. It was on his own ridiculous ego that everyone grew tired of and subsequently tuned him out. Not to mention the total crap personnel decisions and brutal GM. They both had to go.
In BA I Trust!
December 4th, 2019 at 2:49 pm
Gruden was fired because the team collapsed and lost 4 straight and missed the playoffs after his traitorous DC quit in the middle of a Super Bowl run.
Monte didn’t care about winning or losing, it was all about him and him only. He hated that Gruden got all the credit.
Monte went on to great success at Tennesee and USC (not) with his azzhole son.
They are both living out of their Pontiac Safari somewhere near the Santa Monica Pier in sunny and beautiful California.
December 4th, 2019 at 3:05 pm
“System CB”….hmmmm…well then why don’t all CB playing in that system have STATS like Ronde’s ?….curious HOLE in that thinking
December 4th, 2019 at 3:09 pm
There’s something to say about a player who steps up their intensity and tenacity at the most crucial moments. Ronde has secured many victories with his last minute heroics. The one I will never forget is his pick 6 against Philly in the waning minutes of the NFC Championship that propelled our glorious Bucs to the Superbowl.
December 4th, 2019 at 3:29 pm
Bucsfanman
Amen Bredren
December 4th, 2019 at 4:47 pm
I’ve complained enough about the hof process and the one to select the top 100 is much the same. It’s dominated by the biased, moronic, Northeastern sports media. It’s a meaningless list considering who compiles it and I’m shocked that two of our guys made it in.
December 4th, 2019 at 6:01 pm
Ronde had a long and productive career.
So did Ty Law.
You could say Ronde had more sacks and tackles, but Law had more interceptions and SB rings.
If one goes in, the other should as well.
December 4th, 2019 at 6:10 pm
Another point-
Walsh was close to quitting 49ers because of all the losing, before he made Montana the starter.
I would say Montana, Rice and Lott made Walsh look like a genius.
December 4th, 2019 at 7:01 pm
100% spot on here J0e.
It’s a travesty. He was a generational player who changed the position and accomplished things that no other cornerback ever has.
He has signature plays and wins in the playoffs and Super Bowl.
Someone mentioned he was bad out of college… that only makes him more worthy IMO. He overcame limits in height and speed by being smart and working his tail off.
Travesty.
December 4th, 2019 at 9:19 pm
The Tampa 2 originated in Pittsburgh with Chuck Noll. All the Steeler defenders from that era must be system players too.
December 4th, 2019 at 9:47 pm
Completely agree Joe, a large part of a player’s success is where they were drafted and by whom. Maybe if Ronde goes elsewhere, he’s a dud. Maybe if Tom Brady isn’t drafted by the Patriots, he’s cut by the end of training camp.
What sickens me is that all of these guys will happily vote Richard Sherman into the Hall of Fame, when he played on one side of a great defense.
December 4th, 2019 at 11:37 pm
All complete and total BS.
December 5th, 2019 at 12:20 am
Nate Burleson may have said the reason why Ronde won’t be in the Hall of Fame. He was one of the best tackling corners of all time. That’s right. That is why he won’t get in. Ronde was one of the surest tackler. That was his game. He didn’t go for the highlight reel big hits. He didn’t go to blow up a player. So most people don’t know just how good he was.
What Ronde did was sneaky. He was sneaky good. He did his job as a craftsman making it look easy. That made his style of play understated. Even the interceptions, sack, forced fumbles, recoveries and 13 TDs (8 INT, 4 FR and 1 PR) he made look effortless. That’s what a craftsman does. That is why Ronde is one of the best corners to have played the game.
System guy? There is a correct point about the Steelers. They have a lot of Hall of Famers from that defense. They ran the Cover 2. The Bucs ran the Tampa 2 which was a variant of the cover 2. Ronde, a system guy. Really. Give us Buc fans who know him a break. Ronde defined his position in the system. Hall of Famers do that. Sapp defined his position as did Brooks. Those two are in. Lynch also defined his position as a run stuffing safety and a solid cover safety who made the big plays at just the right times.
Yeah. System guys. I remember every year the question was asked when is Ronde going to be replaced and who is going to replace him. He never was replaced until he retired. Take Ronde out of the history of the Buccaneers and I wonder if the Bucs would have won the Super Bowl. He was that good. Along with Sapp Brooks, Lynch and Rice he was such a key contributor. All this for a system guy that was supposed to be replaced and never was.
Ronde for the Hall. Ronde for the Gold.
December 5th, 2019 at 8:10 am
Great job on this article Joe, Ira should take it and read it to the Hall Of Fame panel. Maybe, just maybe it might sink in.