Offense Still Clicking (No, Really)
October 29th, 2019
Somehow getting points.
Sometimes, something catches your attention that makes you wonder if you are drunk or sober. Then you check to make sure. Yup, that’s Coke Zero in your glass. Straight.
The Bucs offense is still among the NFL’s best in the second-most important stat in the NFL. That would be points scored.
(Most important stat is wins.)
The Bucs, despite an erratic offense in Nashville last week, are No. 5 in the NFL in average points scored per game at 28. That’s just behind Pat Mahomes and the Chiefs (No. 4/28.2 ppg.) and just ahead of Aaron Rodgers and the Green. Bay. Packers (No. 6/27.1 ppg.).
(Interestingly of the top nine teams in average points scored, all but one has a quarterback that seems secure with their franchises if not coveted. The only team on that list that may not have a secure quarterback position is — you guessed it — the Bucs, whose fans cannot wait to throw America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston, out on the street. Hey, looks like Andy Dalton’s available. That’s the ticket!)
What is somewhat amazing to Joe is that this Bucs offense is scoring points despite forcing balls to worthless Breshad Perriman, overmatched Scotty Miller, and trying to make Dare Ogunbowale a key figure in the offense, with the full blessing of Veto Corleone Bucco Bruce Arians.
If Goodwill was a middle-man contractor collecting unwanted football players and then selling them off to NFL teams at a steep discount to raise cash for its charity, they’d throw Ogunbowale back in the shopping mall parking lot bin.
(Column Intermission I: Before anyone starts, yes, Joe knows full well how to spell the first name of the patriarch of the famous silver screen outfit, the Corleone Family.)
(Column Intermission II: No, Joe is not suggesting Arians is affiliated with any crime family. C’mon, work with Joe here, huh?)
For teams that have played only seven games, the Bucs are third in total points scored (196) behind Jimmy GQ and the 49ers, along with Lamar Jackson and the Crows.
Imagine how many points this team could rack up if Bucs offensive coordinator Byron Leftwich put a halt to constantly slamming Gale Sayers Peyton Barber up the middle on first down for three years, and got the talented Bucs tight ends more involved in the passing game besides missing blocks?
October 29th, 2019 at 4:15 pm
4th quarter stat padding and an outlier Rams game.
October 29th, 2019 at 4:16 pm
Annnndddd!!! The deadline has passed. Guess they are happy with O-line play. Jameis wont finish the year. You guys will get your chance with Griffin.
October 29th, 2019 at 4:17 pm
Clicking like gramma’s loose fitting dentures….
October 29th, 2019 at 4:18 pm
JW is too good. Even when he is struggling
October 29th, 2019 at 4:19 pm
I think next year will be alot of the same faces for the most part with a few more arians guys added. A few free agents and the draft since we will actually have cap space next year could very well be what this year couldve been if we didnt have cap issues
October 29th, 2019 at 4:20 pm
No moves today. More of the status woe for the Jason Licht reign of terror.
October 29th, 2019 at 4:23 pm
“Sometimes, something catches your attention that makes you wonder if you are drunk or sober.” Nope, I’ll go with the drunk. Sober people can look beyond the smoke Joe.
October 29th, 2019 at 4:26 pm
Imagine how many points we could put up im we could score in the red zone and not turn the ball over. is this your only stat backing jameis up. how many points has he gifted to the other team? I want him to turn it around but pinning this on leftwich is absurd. we dont win because we turn the ball over. and it isnt the running backs fumbling….
October 29th, 2019 at 4:30 pm
3rd most important stat:
Turnover differential. -5
12 interceptions – tied for 1st with Cleveland and Miami
5 fumbles
17 total giveaways- only Giants have more
October 29th, 2019 at 4:39 pm
I agree with Petty Officer Buc … smoke & mirrors.
The Rams game was an awesome game; 55 points scored. that was ALSO the game however where the Bucs’ DEFENSE generated FOUR turnovers. The defense scored 1 TD itself & allowed the offense to operate from short fields & score 3 TDs off those other TOs. GRRREAT COMPLIMENTARY FOOTBALL.
Yes the Bucs’ TEAM has scored 196 points in 7 games … 28 PPG average. Good for a #5 ranking like you said Joe. Take away that ONE game though & a different picture emerges. We’re now down to scoring 141 points in 6 games … 23.5 PPG average. Hmmm. And then for fun take away the other points our defense scored FOR the offense (1 Pick-6) and you’re now down to 134 points in 6 games … 22.3 PPG average generated by the Bucs’ OFFENSE.
And if you REALLY want to see how effective our offense has been on its own, take away the points our offense scored off of being HANDED short fields by the other TEN TOs generated by our defense. Nah, I won’t go there … too depressing. Like I said, smoke & mirrors.
October 29th, 2019 at 4:40 pm
No.32 / testosterone
October 29th, 2019 at 4:44 pm
Watching my bucs over the pass 5 or 6 years I’ve come to the conclusion that the roster is not as stocked as I thought. I mean 3 different coaches same resort. To me the only consistent players we have is Evans, Paul, Godwin and Marpet everyone else is inconsistent. Barrett and Gay I have to wait and see haven’t seen them play enough
October 29th, 2019 at 4:45 pm
Agree with DR.
JW = Fools Gold
I wish it wasn’t so…
In BA I Trust!
October 29th, 2019 at 4:47 pm
***NEW RULE***
No more quoting Bucs Stats of any kind unless there’s a comparison of said stats with the following breakdown:
1) With The Bucs In The Lead
2) With The Bucs Trailing
So many of these ‘seemingly positive’ Bucs stats (like Winston’s stats) are racked up when the team is trailing, often by 2+ scores.
Let’s see how the Bucs compare to the rest of the league in Points Scored to take the lead in a game. I’d bet anything they’re more like bottom 25% of the league.
October 29th, 2019 at 4:50 pm
Of course. We have a dominant offense
What 2-5 team doesn’t?
Im sure we’ll continue our reign of Domination,
Right to a 5-11 season!
Fear us!!!!
October 29th, 2019 at 4:51 pm
Clicking? Are you talking about the offense that snaps balls off of the QBs face and the one that runs into each other behind the line of scrimmage? And the one that sails balls 20 yards over receivers heads or the one with a WR who can make a catch or run his routes in bounds? Are you talking about the season offense whose best weapon lets a TD go through his hands and our TE bouces passes off his chest? Is that the offense you’re talking about.
Your on a different palent if you think this offense is clicking. And it wasn’t just last game either. Ten turnovers in the last 2. The game before that we forgot how to pass blocking and committed a ton of pentalties. Compiling stats does very little when you trip over your own two feet as often as we do and gag back any good you may have done. Right now it’s a losers offense that plays like losers. Looking at points totals like its something to be proud about is an insult to any fan who has to sit through this crap and knows the whole story.
October 29th, 2019 at 4:52 pm
When they can’t run the ball on you (runs down clock) but can pass at will you get a lot of oportunities… that and 4th quarter padding. Bet if you looked at it by a per drive basis we are a lot worse than 5th and that’s all that mattees really. You can score 30 pts but if they score 40 who cares. I’d rather have a good defense and run game and win 21 to 10 by scoring in 3 out of 6 drives and controlling the ball than to lose 28 to 38 and score of 4 out of 8 or whatever
October 29th, 2019 at 4:56 pm
28 yeah freaking great. Whoopdeefreakingdoo we score 28 points a game. Meanwhile we just gave up 27 and lose.
So we score 28. But when we need 28 we lose. Great freaking ackomplished. So great I forgot to be proud.
October 29th, 2019 at 4:57 pm
Lamarcus nuthugger, dude, wipe your chin!
October 29th, 2019 at 4:59 pm
No stat predicts winning and covering the spread more than turnover differential.
Teams that have :
+1 have 65-70% chance of covering
+2 have 75% chance of winning and covering
+3 or more have better than 90% chance of winning and covering
Also, every turnover is like giving up 4 points- worth more than a fg.
You can nitpick every player and coach if you want, but Bucs lose because of turnovers.
October 29th, 2019 at 5:05 pm
And yeah.. same story as last year.. let them score quickly so we can score lol… we say we are somehow scoring even now than last year but how much of that is the upgrade in our kicking?
October 29th, 2019 at 5:10 pm
Idc what anyone says.. Andy Dalton would be an immediate upgrade and it isn’t about what he can do as much as what he won’t do under good coaching. He has been OK in his NFL career not great but the key thing I will point out is he is not a turnover machine. At this point I would take even a game manager, I am just sick of stupid turnovers.. And Oh, by the way, Andy’s contract is averaging around 16 million the next 2 years over the 20 plus we think Winston will get.
October 29th, 2019 at 5:21 pm
Maybe Falcons unload Matt Ryan and Bucs sign cheap. Wouldn’t hurt anything other than someone’s feelings to have some competition next year.
October 29th, 2019 at 5:30 pm
Why only imagine Leftwich being better and not Jameis? Wouldn’t Leftwich be just as responsible for the points?
Imagine how many points we could rack up if Jameis didn’t the give the ball away at the worst pace in the league?
Imagine how many points we wouldnt need to rack up if Jameis didn’t give the ball away.
October 29th, 2019 at 5:34 pm
Jameis 12 ints and 8 fumbles in only 7 games. 70 career ints and 46 fumbles in less than 4 and a half years. Manning had 100 ints and 37 fumbles in the first 5 years and Elway had 77 ints and 27 fumbles in first 5 years. I was surprised to see those stats having said that looks Jameis needs to hold on to the ball the ints goes with 50 passes a game.
October 29th, 2019 at 6:01 pm
The O scored over 20 Sunday and the O turned it over 4 time which led to 20 more points for the titians …. so yeah, that a lot of point the O is responsible for.
October 29th, 2019 at 6:21 pm
You guys are crazy… 4th quarter padded stats? Our stats on Sunday in the 4th quarter are anemic! If we would have had great stats in the 4th quarter, we would have won that game!
October 29th, 2019 at 6:35 pm
You can have the most points scored at the end of the year. If you turn the ball over more than the other team you lose most of the time. That stat is the most important stat in the game. What’s our record? Yes that stat matters!!
October 29th, 2019 at 6:43 pm
Wow! Fifth in points scored ..Gee Whiz ..
Wait! What about Wins….Ugh….forget I asked
Peace, out
October 29th, 2019 at 6:44 pm
Put Alvin Kamara and Patrick Peterson on this team. Two guys. What’s our record? (If you wanna go big, add Adam Humphries. Think 3rd Down would be better? Easier to protect the ball?)
The Bucs aren’t that far off.
October 29th, 2019 at 6:49 pm
On looking back at the Bucs-Rams game, something dawned on me Joe: What WE did to the Rams because of their 4 turnovers is pretty much what the Panthers & Titans did to us because of OUR turnovers in those games. EXCEPT that our defense responded much better.
Bucs’ defense set our offense up to score some relatively easy points in the Rams’ game … our offense scored 3 TDs off of the first 3 Rams’ TOs, and then our defense tacked on 7 points thanks to Suh’s FR for a TD. Great COMPLIMENTARY FOOTBALL.
The Panthers’ & Titans’ defenses did much the same thing for their offenses though when they created those ELEVEN TAKEAWAYS in those TWO games. Panthers’ offense scored 1 FG & 1 TD off of 2 Bucs INTs (10 points). Bucs’ defense held the Panthers to ZERO points on the OTHER 3 INTs & 1 fumble. The 10 points surrendered were on short fields after the INTs BTW. The Titans’ offense scored 2 TDs off of the first Buc fumble & first INT, both in the first qtr. They scored nothing off of the Bucs’ fumble & INT in the 4th qtr.
Those points scored were the difference in both games. Of the 11 TOs, Bucs’ defense allowed 3 TDs & 1 FG, ALL on short fields. Our defense held on the OTHER 7 TOs. To me that’s impressive, despite the fact that BOTH games were losses. I can’t imagine being a Bucs’ defender and watching YOUR offense commit 11 turnovers in just 2 games. As fans we get down about it, but the Bucs’ defense doesn’t have that option. THEY HAVE TO CLEAN UP THE MESS. They actually did a fairly decent job of doing that; it’s just that it was a REALLY BIG MESS.
October 29th, 2019 at 7:16 pm
Scotty Miller is this years Ronald Jones.
Not much help now, but might be next year.
October 29th, 2019 at 7:19 pm
Joe the only stat that counts is the win/loss column. Look at other franchises that jettisoned good quarterbacks when they became losers, Giants/Manning & Ravens/Flacco. As far as people saying you have to have a top 3 pick to get a great QB, chew on these stats- draft position-
Daniel Jones #6
Gardner Minshew #178
Josh Allen #7
Lamar Jackson #32
Mason Rudolf #76
Patrick Maholmes #10
Deshaun Watson #12
Dallas Prescott #135
These are all good QBs that I’d rather have than Jameis
October 29th, 2019 at 7:27 pm
DR,
I know a lot of us fans appreciate your research and honest breakdowns of what ACTUALLY works transpired during our games.
Crazy Joe……. not so much.
October 29th, 2019 at 7:36 pm
Doosh. Hah! So True. DR puts in the work and has a great mindset.
In BA I Trust!
October 29th, 2019 at 8:07 pm
There are turnovers and there are real turnovers.
Game 1: Winston > 2 real turnovers
Not on him> OJ ball off hands
Game 2: Winston > 0
Game 3: Winston > 1 real turnover
Game 4: Winston > 1 real turnover
Game 5: Winston > 0
Game 6: Winston > 3 real turnovers*
*1st pick, Kuechley pick, fumble.
Not on him> arm hit, RT tisk, tisk
Not on him>the 4th and 10. I guess they could have punted or he could have thrown it over everyones head. Late in game.
Not on him> pass to Evans in EZ down 2 scores. Late in game.
Game 7: Winston > 1 real turnover if that.*
*1st pick. Ball looked to be overthrown but Arians says WR ran wrong route.
Not on him> 1st fumble. Center snap too soon.
Not on him> 2nd fumble. Arm hit while in throwing motion. LT tisk, tisk.
Not on him> 2nd pick. Another hail mary with seconds to play. WR ran wrong route. High risk high reward play.
So 7 maybe 8 real turnovers are Winstons in 7 games. Not 12 interceptions and 3 lost fumbles. That’s why a lot of Americans are called Gruber’s folks. They will parrot the talking heads on ESPN and the NFL network.
October 29th, 2019 at 8:11 pm
Good to see there’s still a few objective posters left on this site.
October 29th, 2019 at 8:22 pm
Dapostman … Good analysis. It’s easier to tell though what transpired immediately before the turnover (ball off of OJ’s hands?) than it is to analyze the events that led up to that point. If the ball was high for instance, was Jameis throwing under duress? Was his arm hit during the release? Was OJ set to receive it or was he just coming out of his break? The list goes on and on I’m sure.
Same thing with fumbles though. Would Jameis have fumbled IF he hadn’t tried to salvage the play? A million What Ifs for sure. The only reality to the whole thing is that those INTs & fumbles happened and they ultimately impacted the results of the games.
October 29th, 2019 at 8:38 pm
Dapostman,
Sorry, but that’s a flawed analysis. Many of those others WERE real turnovers. For example, the last pick of the game recently… that wasn’t a hail mary, we were driving down the field. Even if a WR *did* run the wrong route, there was no way in hell he was catching that pass unless he was 12-feet tall. That pass was POORLY overthrown.
What you failed to mention in your ‘analysis’ along with the Turnovers vs. Real Turnovers would be Should-Have-Been-A-Turnover.
If you’re going to try and dissect each turnover and deflect blame off of Winston for some, then it’s only fair to fully analyze all the ‘probably should have been a turnover’ that Winston WAS responsible for.
Kuechly and Kwon both dropped Winston INTs that hit them in both hands and was clearly a terrible pass from Winston. There were multiple INTs that were clearly Winston’s fault in that Saints game that were ‘re-do’s’ due to penalties. There were many others, like this recent game when Winston threw it right into the chest of a D-lineman and the ball was juggled around by 4 or 5 different Titans before hitting the ground. That definitely should have been a turnover that would have been Winston’s fault.
So one can easily look at the ‘should have been’ turnovers just as much as ‘not his fault’ turnovers. BOTTOM LINE: Winston IS 100% a turnover machine no matter how you analyze it.
October 29th, 2019 at 8:47 pm
I just cannot even respond – to the responses.
First, I will acquiesce that JW3 turnovers, have put the D in bad situations, and hamstrung TB. NO DOUBT. And what makes me crazy, is how hesitant JW3 has become (outlier Rams Game) of stepping back, and QUICKLY throwing the ball… Not sure why he is holding on? Trying to avoid INTs?
What was different in the Rams game? HMMM, #1 – clean pocket, #2 Finding open receivers. and a running game????
No answers what is going on inside the walls at OBP or why the QB meltdown in London. or Titans.
I do NOT understand, why EVERY PASS PLAY CALL, is NOT designed to go to ME, CG, OJ or Brate – our BEST Players on offense. VS – OHCUTMESOONGALE, Scotty Who? and Perriman????? – when the damn game is on the line!!!!!
What is Leftwich thinking? Trying to be cute? Outsmarting seasoned, successful defensive head coaches? If I am ME (Mike Evans) I am Super-ticked that I was not targeted in 4Q….dude was on fire!
Apparently, majority of our points are junk-time stat building….but how ticked would fans be, if we just punted during “junk-time” vs giving ourselves a chance at a comeback? At least there is a glimmer of hope, vs quitting QB.
No win here, for any arguments. BA needs to take over play-calling -NOW! Since we are NOT playing a Backup QB in Seattle, we might have a chance to win….and HOPE will be somewhat resurrected, for a playoff run…with an uncharacteristic win.
My 2 cents….
October 29th, 2019 at 9:39 pm
Easy to misinterpret stats- Either way, still no run game consistently and the worst pass D in the NFL plus more TO’s than TD’s equals 2-5
It’s a Bucs life – just a JV franchise playing against varsity every week – Licht and his scouting team should be made available to the industry
They just have no clue how to build a roster properly- 7 or 8 DBs drafted and 3 OL, paying your backup TE 7mil, riding with a 430 year old RT on two bad knees
– Devin Bush is light years ahead of DWhite, big reach it appears – oh and all those DBs drafted – Whitehead appears to be the only good one- Carlton Davis equals Charles Dimry JAG, VHIII is pathetically outsized, Nor does he have enough long speed to play anywhere but the nickel – Dare is not good at all, PB looks slower than ever, ROJO not being used enough – do we know if he can be a bell cow type? We may never know
Add to all this all of BA’s hand picked FA’s that are all gone (Deone/Andre) or just flat suck (Permian)
Phil Krueger type stupidity in the FO and scouting both PRO and college
I mean Rich McKay is laughing out loud still and they are 1-7
October 29th, 2019 at 10:23 pm
@ClwJB Appreciate your observation of Devin Bush. I will wait for pile-on of FSU bashers…..but Devin Bush chose UM (Michigan) instead of FSU, even though he was a “legacy” FSU kid. Harbaugh out-recruited FSU.
Giant miss for FSU then, and during the next 3 seasons. Impact player at UM….not sure why Bucs overlooked him. Devin White may “become” impact player. But outside of the Bosa kid, Devin Bush is next in line, for DROY, along with Brian Burns- distant, but still impactful defensive rookie.
Meanwhile, Devin White, was not impactful during key games at LSU, namely during some of the losses. Probably not his fault, mind you.
No matter, for Bucs, outside of his monster hit on the fake punt, I have been waiting to hear his name. Still think he is a winner.
October 29th, 2019 at 11:02 pm
Leftwich is an absolutely terrible OC. Arians needs to have him on a leash. No reason to not throw in a couple TE seem routes and give rojo a minimum 20 touches to get the play action going aka when Jameis is at his best
October 29th, 2019 at 11:06 pm
Meanwhile, Devin White, was not impactful during key games at LSU, namely during some of the losses. Probably not his fault, mind you.
No matter, for Bucs, outside of his monster hit on the fake punt, I have been waiting to hear his name. Still think he is a winner.
I DO REALIZE DEVIN WHITE WAS HURT….. and reason I said I still think he is a winner, is because I do believe that when he is truly 100% healthy, D White will be impactful. Yet, Devin Bush, has been a monster, so it “is what it is” regarding Lighct draft pics. Somehow, so many of our GM’s #1’s, are injured in training camp, and provide little impact year 1. Perplexing…..
October 29th, 2019 at 11:10 pm
the garbage time stats excuse is largely BS.
That was the case under Lovie and a few blowouts under Koetter, but has not been the case this season whatsoever. Lazy analysis from the haters.
Well thought out statements from DR, Dapostman and a few others, as usual.
October 29th, 2019 at 11:10 pm
BA:
The fact Licht/Arians may have picked the wrong middle linebacker isn’t so much the issue here. The problem was they picked a middle linebacker at No. 5! Arians openly mocked those who questioned that.
No one is scoffing now.
October 29th, 2019 at 11:18 pm
@JOE- Regarding reply – HALLA-EFFING-ULA…..Enough Said! – We ARE ON SAME PAGE!
The fact Licht/Arians may have picked the wrong middle linebacker isn’t so much the issue here. The problem was they picked a middle linebacker at No. 5! Arians openly mocked those who questioned that.
No one is scoffing now.
October 29th, 2019 at 11:30 pm
@JOE We should have selected an elite Pass Rusher at #5! Some options.
Love Shaq, but he will be free agent, and a one year rental for Bucs. We could have had a 4 year, low-cost franchise Pass rusher. oh well, thanks, Jason….
I like Devin White – but he is not Derrick Brooks….at least yet.
October 29th, 2019 at 11:37 pm
Phil Krueger
Those were the bad old days. This franchise back then was run like a Dollar General.
On an unfathomable list of gaffes, mistakes, and downright stupid mind blowing decisions , letting Lil Napoleon run McKay out of town and installing Bruce Allen, has to be top 3. Based on long term ramifications.
October 29th, 2019 at 11:48 pm
@Joe – I like DWhite….Dude has not made impact we expected, at #5. Been hurt, got it. Recovering – Got it. Getting there – Got it.
Still, I would have preferred a 4 YR Excellent Pass Rusher, at cheap price. Just me.
October 30th, 2019 at 7:55 am
BA needs to retire hes is going to kill what little moral this team has. This team will quit on him if they lose at seattle and arizona at home.
October 30th, 2019 at 11:30 am
Imagine how the offense would be if they just had a decent OL. Imagine where the team would be with a mediocre defensive backfield.Jameis would look a little better despite the turnovers.
October 30th, 2019 at 2:52 pm
1sparkybuc could be worse we could have Baker Mayfield as QB. Oh thats coincidence Freddie Kitchens is BAs protege QB whisper junior I can see the similarity.