Disappointing
October 16th, 2019
Rookie DBs struggling.
Yeah, Bucs fans are in a dour mood. Joe is right there with you. Who expected the Bucs to only have just two wins heading into the bye?
There are quite a few things for Bucs fans to be disappointed with. Outside of the run defense and Shaq Barrett (the first month), and the way the offense racks up points, is surely something to be proud of.
Everywhere else, yeah, one major disappointment.
Before he hopped on a plane back to Tampa from London, Greg Auman of The Athletic cobbled together disappointments in the Bucs this season. Auman’s not yet won over by the rookie defensive backs.
The Bucs put three of their top four draft picks into bolstering the defensive secondary — after putting two seconds and a third into defensive backs the year before — and those three rookies haven’t made any consistent contributions. They are part of what is currently the worst passing defense in the NFL.
Second-round corner Sean Murphy-Bunting had an interception on a bobbled pass against the Saints but otherwise has struggled to get on the field defensively, making more penalties than plays on special teams. Third-round corner Jamel Dean got his first snaps on defense Sunday, this after missing three games with an ankle injury, but it was only a cameo as Carlton Davis was briefly injured. Third-round safety Mike Edwards, held out of Sunday’s game with a hamstring injury, has started four games but has no interceptions or sacks and only two passes defensed.
It’s too early to evaluate their long-term value, but they’re barely getting on the field as part of perhaps the worst unit on the team — the hindsight of not taking a tackle with one of those three picks seems more glaring now.
Joe agrees with Auman that it’s too early to write off the rookies in the secondary. Yet. But Joe lumps all of them into one big bucket. The Bucs secondary has been atrocious.
Seven draft picks on defensive backs in the first three rounds the last four years and none are doing anything but losing games. Yeah, maybe Carlton Davis is OK. The rest? Whiffs, man.
The best defensive back the Bucs have, safety Jordan Whitehead, was a fourth-round pick.
So the way it is looking now (albeit still early), those picks of rookie defensive backs sure could have been more useful elsewhere since these guys struggle to get on the field much less stay on the field.
October 16th, 2019 at 5:10 am
Brought to you by Jason Lightbulb.
October 16th, 2019 at 5:15 am
Carlton Davis might be okay, but has zero ball skills. The late touchdown catch in London, if he had any ball skills that possibly could’ve been an interception. If MJ Stewart can play Safety, he needs to be moved there. Whitehead is a football player, a keeper IMO. I still have hope for SMB, Dean, and Edwards. I’d be okay with getting rid of VH3 and promoting Mazzi from the Practice Squad. Love to see Patrick Peterson in Tampa, not holding my breath.
October 16th, 2019 at 5:21 am
Dean will be fine long term if he can stay healthy. I said it the day the draft concluded. SMB should have been Risnor, but if not him Nasir Adderly (or Greedy Williams) and Edwards should have been Chauncey Gardner Johnson and Nelson should have been Omenihu. The kicker pick was stupid and could have been a whole host of players who actually contribute consistently. Licht is over his head.
October 16th, 2019 at 5:31 am
How great would our team be if Licht had just listened to you and our JBf followers on some obvious draft choices JOE.
October 16th, 2019 at 5:32 am
New coach, 150 new assistants, new players, SAME OLD BUCS!
Why have rookies as primary backups at BOTH CB spots???
The GM is pathetic – draft OJ when you have Brate, ignore OL then and again for 5 DB’s in rounds 2-4 when you just spent a #1 on VHIII
Devin Bush looks Light years better than DWhite…time will tell
Lack depth all over the place, stupid triple up drafting while ignoring other glaring needs, tons of penalties, tons of turnovers still
ME13 attitude Sunday just plain sucked, for the world to see – looks like he wants no more of JW and its game 6
Oh, QB controversy = like is Vinny or Dilfer or Free or JW actually Franchise QBs?
SAME OLD BUCS….
October 16th, 2019 at 5:59 am
Rookie DBs often struggle, yes some hit the ground running but many require time to be effective in the NFL. The bigger problem is that the front office should have known this and not started the season without some veteran talent in the secondary. Sadly, with all those rookies, the weakest link is former 1st round pick VH3, who is being constantly targeted and beaten.
October 16th, 2019 at 6:14 am
I’m more frustrated that we wasted the 5th overall pick on the second coming of Eugene Marve, but yeah other than Whitehead our young secondary looks bad. I know it’s early and I’m being a pessimistic jacka$$, but I’m tired of looking forward to the draft six weeks into the season.
October 16th, 2019 at 6:24 am
6-10
October 16th, 2019 at 6:37 am
We KNEW the defense would struggle. You simply cannot expect rookies to come in and play like pros, and against some of the best WRs in the game.
October 16th, 2019 at 6:38 am
Another Jason Lite ….look who I picked smarter than Bobby Beathard selection
October 16th, 2019 at 6:45 am
That’s an awesome line … “Who expected the Bucs to only have just two wins heading into the bye?” Hello, like just about EVERYBODY.
Interesting thing is that it SHOULD’VE been different, but ISN’T. No reason for losing that Giants game … ZERO. Giants were begging us to take it, but we refused and plucked defeat from the jaws of victory yet again. Turnovers crucified us in the 49ers & Panthers games (MIGHT have turned out differently if not for those), but the Saints beat us up good … they’re clearly a much better team. So ya, we COULD’VE been 3-3 (who knows, maybe batter?) but WE’RE NOT. You are where you are. We’ve got TWO weeks to heal up then it’s time to move on to the next 10 games.
We got this. Look at the next 10 games:
o Titans (there) … 2-4 (same as us)
o Seahawks (there) … 5-1 (hmmm)
o Cardinals (here) … 2-3-1 (pretty much same as us)
o Saints (here) … 5-1 (hmmm)
o Falcons (there) … 1-5 (wow, someone’s worse off than us)
o Jaguars (there) … 2-4 (same as us)
o Colts (here) … 3-2 (not THAT much better)
o Lions (there) … 2-2-1 (again, not THAT much better)
o Texans (here) … 4-2 (hmmm)
o Falcons (here) … 1-5 (may be going for a Top Pick by then?)
Point being … we’ve got a CHANCE in just about every remaining game, IF we can get our collective act together. Defensively, we’ll get better. The DLine SHOULD improve IF it can stay healthy & when JPP returns. Our LB play SHOULD improve as White gains playing time. This Secondary WILL improve as the year goes on (just stop wasting time playing VHIII outside).
Our offense is a bigger question mark IMO. Far too many turnovers & far too inconsistent. Game plans, play-calling & even play design have been very unimaginative IMO. BL is in over his head, and BA NEEDS to straighten that out FAST before the ship sinks. THAT’S our weak link right now.
October 16th, 2019 at 6:58 am
Licht is the kind of guy that would rummage thru the trash bin at Berns steakhouse for a piece of meat and claim to all the world he had filet mignonette for dinner.
October 16th, 2019 at 6:59 am
2020 Draft strategy
RD1-FullBack
RD2-CB
RD3-Gunner
RD3(comp)-P
RD4-CB
RD5-PR
RD6-CB
RD7-KR blocker
October 16th, 2019 at 7:05 am
“hope is a dangerous thing, hope can drive a man insane” quote from red redding, shawshank redemption
October 16th, 2019 at 7:05 am
Oh forgot to mention Joe, you’ve become delusional. Classic line … “the way the offense racks up points is surely something to be proud of.” Yes classic, but VERY delusional.
This Bucs’ offense is a DISASTER once you look ‘beneath the stats’. We’re #4 in scoring in the NFL right now with 173 points through 6 games (29 PPG average). Looks VERY impressive, until you notice that 55 points came in ONE game and another 14 points came from our defense (Pick-6 & FR-6). So in the other 5 games, the Bucs’ OFFENSE has scored 104 points … or 20.8 PPG.
And THAT doesn’t count the number of times (9) that the Bucs’ DEFENSE got additional turnovers & gave the ball back to our offense so they could score (and pad THEIR stats). Nor does it SUBTRACT for the number of points that the Bucs’ OFFENSE turned the ball over in Pick-6s (22 points) or a safety (2 points) that got tagged to the Bucs’ defense … and resulted in game losses as a consequence. Or even for the number of OTHER turnovers (10) that put the Bucs’ defense into some horrible field positions that they had little chance to recover from, and some of which resulted in even more points for our opponents.
Sorry Joe, but you’re delusional. At best this Bucs’ offense, exclusive of the Rams’ game, is effectively producing 16 PPG … or less (effective being AFTER turnover COSTs are taken into effect).
October 16th, 2019 at 7:08 am
Barber and Lynch sucked their first years, too.
October 16th, 2019 at 7:18 am
I can’t believe how blind some of our fans and Joe are. 2-4 is exactly where I expected them to be. Why in the world would anyone expect them to be better than 2-4. They did nothing in the offseason to really improve the team. Everyone thought coaching was the issue but hopefully the hard truth is no setting in that this team doesn’t have much talent. Geez amazing that Joe is in disbelief that a 5-11 team is on track to go 5-11 again.
October 16th, 2019 at 7:24 am
Another Light reach. He’s gets too cute with his picks.
October 16th, 2019 at 8:02 am
In a passing league you need more veterans in the secondary than young players. They just look slow and lost out there.
October 16th, 2019 at 8:23 am
It would be less embarrassing for the city and fans if this .inept minor league franchise would just forfeit season and shut doors…. bucs will never win a meaningful game ever again
October 16th, 2019 at 8:32 am
jp
LOL….
that looks like a licht draft….lol…
GO BUCS!!!!!
October 16th, 2019 at 8:33 am
ModHairKen Says:
October 16th, 2019 at 7:08 am
Barber and Lynch sucked their first years, too.
The difference is there is no sapp to carry these backups like sapp carried those backups low standard bucfan confuses with legends
October 16th, 2019 at 8:45 am
Both years we drafted a head scratcher that everyone thought would be a 4-5th rounder. Instead of the supposed first round talents who fell back and now are starting from day one on there team. Panthers corner from LSU with 4.2 speed. And a long rangy corner from LSU who would be great against the bigger receivers in our division greedy Williams. But we get a 4.6 slot safety and a small school needs three years to evaluate. Every pick it seems we get to there contract years and are still hoping they reach there potential. When are we going to realize the person running the draft is killing our team. We never have guys that just step in on day one and ball out. But others teams seem to get 2-3 a year. Over 4 years that’s 8-12 contributing players on your team. Where we are lucky to get 1 every two years. Hell even our can’t miss best mlb to come out since Willis and Lewis looks lost. While a mlb drafted 7 spots later is making a huge difference on his team and actually won a game for them already with his play.
October 16th, 2019 at 9:03 am
JP… you would take a FB, when Jonathan Taylor or a new QB would be there in the first round for us?
October 16th, 2019 at 9:07 am
Jeffbuc
Ill say the same thing about licht as i do about Winston…. this franchise has sucked long before both and will suck long after Winston and licht are gone…. glazers have ZERO intentions of fielding a competitive franchise period…. you have to try really hard to be this bad for this long
October 16th, 2019 at 9:10 am
Easy … “They just look slow and lost out there.” Hard to ‘play fast’ Easy if you’re unsure of EXACTLY what you’re supposed to be doing. Rookies, in any profession, get concerned about making mistakes and that leads to indecision IMO. Which ironically leads to MAKING MISTAKES. The only cure? EXPERIENCE … gained from good coaching, practice, game time, and MAKING MISTAKES. Should be a fun ride huh.
October 16th, 2019 at 9:18 am
@Mark
No, I would not take a FB. That was a sarcastic draft, or one Licht would actually do not sure.
I would not take a RB in the 1st either. I’m really like Herbert and Eason followed by Burrow and Fromm if we go the QB route, if not then OL, DL, or DE
October 16th, 2019 at 9:29 am
#Repost
LUVMYBUCS says:
April 29th, 2019 at 10:35 am←
Cont…
October 16th, 2019 at 9:31 am
DR
Amen
October 16th, 2019 at 9:55 am
Jamel Dean is the one I hold out hope for. CD is serviceable as a #2. The others seem like horrible picks.
October 16th, 2019 at 10:07 am
The flip side to this argument though is that our blitzes are not getting home. The adage, “You live and die by the blitz” is especially true with inexperienced DBs.
I expect better play once our blitzing starts being effective. Even still, the position desperately needs upgrading.
October 16th, 2019 at 10:34 am
TDTB
“Why in the world would anyone expect them to be better than 2-4.”
I probably based most of my optimism on continued growth of JW and the mentoring of BA. It seemed to be working in LA but once again JW seems to be JW.
I always knew we were thin without depth…the loss of TWO starters on one of our weakest links..the OL…JW reverting to form…it’s just too much.
Losing JPP and playing most of the season without our #1 draft pick didn’t help either.
Hindsight is always 20-20 but we were just too thin to handle the loss of even players like Cappa and Dotson…much less JPP and White.
October 16th, 2019 at 10:51 am
That’s what drafting with a tape measure and stopwatch gets you. Try looking at the tape instead of the tape measure.
October 16th, 2019 at 11:15 am
It goes on and on. 88 DBs picked in recent years and EXACTLY WHO is a quality defender? We don’t have one. We don’t even have a contender for an elite DB. Right there Licht should be out the door. But he gets a multi-year extension. Following the Bucs is like beating your head against the wall…year after year.
I have to laugh at homers like DB55 and the missing (10-6) NOSBOS. Oh we are going to rule the division. We’ve got the incredible BA and his chosen assistant BL. And Devin White will blitz every other play and blossom like a lotus flower. Right! I watched a replay where players were running all over the field and White was standing there in the middle of the field covering no one. Oh yeah, he’s the savior for this team.
Someday this franchise will get its act together and make its fans proud. Maybe its after the Glaziers sell or they accidentally stumble into a good GM and a decent coach, but until then this team is and will be the pits.
October 16th, 2019 at 11:23 am
If he’s healthy the Bucs need Petersen bad. Since the Bucs screw the draft up so bad, give a 1 & 2
October 16th, 2019 at 11:24 am
Oh I almost forgot Throw in Hargreaves.
October 16th, 2019 at 11:40 am
down in the dirt doug Says:
October 16th, 2019 at 5:31 am
How great would our team be if Licht had just listened to you and our JBf followers on some obvious draft choices JOE
—————-
Like Johnny Effing Football? Uhh, no. Joe has been way off more often than he has been on regarding the draft. For the newcomers, Joe’s eagerness for Johnny Football in 2014 grew from the Bucs’ desperate need for a quarterback. Joe wrote many times about wanting Johnny or Teddy Bridgewater. Joe also was a big Jimmy Garoppolo guy, as regulars here know, Joe has ties to Garoppolo’s university. Still, that was one pick in 2014. As for Kuechly, Joe certainly would have cheered drafting a can’t-miss middle linebacker in Round 1. However, Joe wrote many months before the draft (archives are here) about a linebacker that Joe really wanted, Lavonte David, who the Bucs got in Round 2. –Joe Me on the other hand? I pined for Luke Keuchly while Buc fans wished for Trent Richardson or Mo Claiborn. I hoped we wouldn’t draft Manziel while Buc fans everywhere hope we would. I was a huge supporter of NOT drafting a slow small CB in round 1 but Buc fans everywhere applauded when we landed Hargreaves.
One guy I did nail for the Bucs, however, Chris Godwin. Had my fingers crossed twice that we would land him in round 2… okay. I didn’t like the Justin Evans pick as his college tape showed he couldn’t tackle a grandma… now his tackling has improved but he can’t stay healthy. And Joe screamed for a running back in Round 2 and expressed a strong desire for Godwin a month before the draft https://www.joebucsfan.com/2017/03/chris-godwin-bucs/. –Joe He looked like a late round pick to me. As for recently, I was okay with Vea, I would’ve been okay with the FSU safety as well, all of my favorites were gone. This past year, I was begging for DE Josh Allen and instead we got White. I wasn’t super impressed with his tape either…. he was nothing like the stone cold stopper that Kuechly showed himself to be at BC…. anyways, long story short, Joe is wrong more often than right.
October 16th, 2019 at 12:27 pm
If Licht would’ve used those draft picks on D,and O line instead of DB’s, we wouldn’t be in this mess. I take that back. He would’ve drafted losers from small schools with those picks anyway. Either way, we can’t win with Jason Licht in charge of building a roster.
October 16th, 2019 at 3:26 pm
No one has figured out that when we can’t rush the passer, our DBs get eaten up?
Go watch the last 3 Rams games if you need any answers on how that works.
Two #1 picks for Ramsey is a joke. Good luck with that. He had one good season. Thinks he’s Deion. He’s not.
October 16th, 2019 at 3:30 pm
o Titans (there) … 2-4 (same as us)
o Seahawks (there) … 5-1 (hmmm)
o Cardinals (here) … 2-3-1 (pretty much same as us)
o Saints (here) … 5-1 (hmmm)
o Falcons (there) … 1-5 (wow, someone’s worse off than us)
o Jaguars (there) … 2-4 (same as us)
o Colts (here) … 3-2 (not THAT much better)
o Lions (there) … 2-2-1 (again, not THAT much better)
o Texans (here) … 4-2 (hmmm)
o Falcons (here) … 1-5 (may be going for a Top Pick by then?)
We’re lucky to win 4 of those games. More like 2 or 3. Atlanta will sweep us with Julio. Tennessee with beat us with backup Tannehill. Russell Wilson is a loss. Maybe beat Arizona. Maybe. Saints and Jags have tough defenses. Minshew will throw for 400 on our defense. Colts? Meh. Lions. Stafford. Probably an L. Against Watson and the Texans? Definitely not watching that game.
On second thought, we’ll be lucky to win 1 more game.
The X factor has been and will always be Jameis.
October 16th, 2019 at 3:57 pm
We would be better than 2-4 if our kicker makes a 30 yard FG. So I guesS that’s Jameis’ fault too. Playing for the FG and then taking a 5 yard penalty was sheer genius.
October 16th, 2019 at 4:07 pm
Pat P and Trent Williams. Move D Smith to RT where he was projected coming out of college by almost every publication and GM. Cappa comes back and we are set for years- draft a center and guard at some point in next years draft and we are on our way. Atlanta stinks but did the right thing by drafting a tackle and guests 1 and 2. Matt Ryan won’t be there forever and they need to protect him. Again we should have gotten Corbett from the Browns- cost almost nothing and he can play center or guard. What happens if Jensen goes down?
October 16th, 2019 at 4:08 pm
^^guard^^
October 17th, 2019 at 7:49 pm
@JP 09
Best comment in years.
But you forgot long snapper.
I told everybody.
Trade down from #5. Twice!
Draft anywhere from 10-15.
Get 2-3 second round picks again.
Draft the best D-lineman available in round 1.
Draft one of the top 3 OG/C prospect in the 2nd.
Draft the best RT in the draft in the second.
Draft another D-lineman in the 2nd.
But no!
Jason Licht drafted a 5-10 MLB with stumpy arms.
Smdh.