“I Don’t Know If He’s Good Enough To Withstand That Arsenal”
September 26th, 2019
“Jason, these ex-Bucs are harsh. Is it always like this?”
An accomplished former Buccaneer receiver has studied the Tampa Bay defense through three games and has reached a powerful conclusion.
With all those draft picks in a revamped secondary, and all that hype for the defensive backs unit being “totally fixed,” Michael Clayton doesn’t think the Bucs have enough talent there to be a top defense.
Yes, the ex-Bucs wide receiver had a melancholy tone talking Bucs on WDAE-AM 620 this week.
“We [have] decent players on the outside, and we don’t have a shutdown guy. And to be honest with you, with our young guys it’s going to take them time to grow. And with Vernon [Hargreaves], he’s going to get picked on and I don’t know if he’s good enough to withstand that arsenal that’s going to come at him because like you all say, he’s been he’s been giving up the booty quite a bit,” Clayton lectured. “In my opinion. we need a lockdown corner to relieve some of that stress. And that makes a world of a difference on this team if we’re able to get that done. I don’t see us playing championship football in the secondary any time soon.”
Sobering words there from Clayton, who was an All-State defensive back in high school before making the switch to receiver at Louisiana State University.
Joe’s not going to knock Hargreaves for being pressed into a No. 1 cornerback role that very likely is too big for him. That’s not his fault if he just doesn’t have the game to be better than, say, a quality nickel or a decent No. 2 starter.
If that’s indeed the case, that predicament is on the Bucs organization — if they rely on Hargreaves to be their shutdown guy in a blitz-happy scheme.
No, Joe doesn’t expect the Bucs to trade for Jalen Ramsey.
However, Joe would love to see Carlton Davis make the second-year leap that top players typically do. Bucs legend Rondé Barber spoke on Sunday’s game broadcast about how the Giants were picking on Davis despite Bruce Arians saying he is the Bucs’ best cover corner.
September 26th, 2019 at 12:15 am
Trade for Jalenn Ramsey.
September 26th, 2019 at 12:16 am
Clayton makes sense to me. We fans expected Bowles to make the D beetter and in all likelihood he did as besting the soft unadapting scheme of Mike Smith is not that hard but being good or simply competitive/competent is quite another thing. Its hard to expect a bunch of rookies, second year guys and VH3 to light it up but I’d like to see improvement from that garbage I witnessed in the second half Sunday. Years of poor player personnel decisions have led to this. I hope the guys can gel but I suspect they’ll get burned a lot this season . Progress is all we can hope for ans no the secondary is not fixed Bruce….
September 26th, 2019 at 12:17 am
Clayton’s right ya know. Years and years of premium picks spent on the secondary…and here we are. “Let There Be Licht!”
September 26th, 2019 at 12:19 am
Most of the positions on the Bucs are played by what should be 2nd string guys..
September 26th, 2019 at 1:08 am
Trade for Jalen Ramsey. Make him the highest paid CB in the NFL.
Jameis Winston once said “I would take a paycut to play with Jalen”
Prove it Jameis!
Jameis should take a 100 million, 5 year contract.
Jameis deserves to be one of the CHEAPEST starting QB’s in the NFL.
Also, trade for Patrick Peterson.
MJ Stewart has no business starting in the NFL.
I wish we played Jordan Whitehead at nickle and Justin Evans as starting safety.
I would love to see Evans, Edwards, and Whitehead on the field at the same time.
I hope Justin Evans can come back healthy.
September 26th, 2019 at 1:10 am
Bowles is a very good D. Coordinator. But nobody can turn chicken sh** into chicken salad. You gotta give the man better ingredients. Even Houdini knows this.
September 26th, 2019 at 1:16 am
Carlton is grabby and holds a lot trying to be aggressive, VH3 tries hard but he just isn’t good enough he lacks speed, size,and confidence, Mike Edwards takes horrible angles, cant tackle, & undisciplined, MJ Stewart is a special team guy period! Sean Bunting is at best a fourth corner who reminds me of EJ Biggers! Whitehead is decent, Evans is a non factor….but dont worry its “TOTALLY FIXED”!
September 26th, 2019 at 1:37 am
Give the jags a corner, jpp, and a 2 rounder for ramsey
September 26th, 2019 at 2:53 am
Fire 🔥 Licht
September 26th, 2019 at 3:09 am
We drafted 3 dbs 2 of them are a now show to the point nobody is even talking about them. Why did we draft 2 extra corners if davis is the one expected to make a second year leap?
September 26th, 2019 at 4:01 am
its Jason Lichts fault to draft guys like VHIII instead of the better options that were available..
year after year the same stuff..
Suckaneers suck at talent evaluation and at Roster building..
Suckerneers are a bad joke of an “professional” football team..
Front office has to change..
Join the
FIRE LICHT TONIGHT
movement !!!
September 26th, 2019 at 5:38 am
Michael Clayton is spot on with his analysis of the Bucs’ corners. Carlton Davis is still only a 2nd-year guy, and I think he’s playing much better this year. Still too ‘grabby’ but he’s not the only corner in the league who does that by any means (he just needs to do a better job of hiding it … or to get caught less). And most everyone knew that VHIII wasn’t a bonafide starting outside corner. When your starting outside CB has the most solo tackles on the team (14 after 3 games), something’s bad wrong. Vernon could be a very decent nickel, but not outside CB.
The guy who surprises me is SMB, and I just don’t understand what’s going on there. He’s been active for all 3 games, yet has only 7 defensive snaps out of 207 total. Been a stalwart on S/Ts though, with 72 snaps there (82% of our S/Ts plays). Tells me that he’s healthy, just not ready yet I guess to unseat VHIII. It happens … some guys progress slower than others then all of a sudden the light bulb comes on. I trust Todd Bowles to know when that happens.
Jamel Dean is another guy who I think has tremendous upside, but he just can’t seem to stay healthy. That’s a real bummer no doubt considering all that Jamel went through in high school & college (multiple knee injuries). Kid has guts though and has overcome a bunch already. Would love to see him overcome this too.
And as a special gift to Rod Munch, his favorite player, Ryan Smith, will be released from the cooler after our next game. Actually I thought that Smith looked pretty good in preseason. And we can surely use him on our not-so-special-teams.
September 26th, 2019 at 6:14 am
I made this post immediately following the draft. Licht is too cute. He thinks he knows something about player evaluation that others don’t. I did not agree with the 2019 draft strategy, but if the Bucs brain trust had executed the same strategy using consensus wisdom, their draft would have produced significantly more starters and we wouldn’t be crying about the secondary:
1) white – even with his early injuries, he was still the right call. Just needs more time to show his ability.
2) Nasir Adderly over Sean Murphy Bunting – Kid plays safety and corner. He’s only seeing spot duty in LA so far because they have him focused on safety and guy in front of him is balling out. Would have started at corner immediately for Bucs. Honestly, anybody with a half a brain would have taken Dalton Risnor here, but that was a different draft strategy.
3) Dean – I think he was the right pick based upon the draft strategy, he just has to develop more.
4) Chauncey Gardner Johnson over Mike Edwards – Another kid who plays both Corner and safety. Bucs could have had the ultimate in secondary flexibility.
5) Charles Omenihu over Anthony Nelson – The Big XII 1st teamer and all around defensive player of the year over the Big10’s third team player at the same position. Omenihu is graded as “elite” by PFF after three games in the NFL.
6) Austin Siebert over Gay – I don’t think they should have drafted a kicker, but if you are why not take the one that was the most consistent in college and played in the most “big” games.
7) Anyone over Scotty Miller
8) Anyone over Beckner. Nice guy with a great story who was washed up at the end of his college career.
These very basic and conventional picks applied to the Bucs flawed draft strategy would have produced 4 starters year 1 and 5 or maybe 6 by year 2. The Bucs front office is horrible.
September 26th, 2019 at 6:17 am
Davis is a penalty machine. Entire secondary is comprised of nickel guys or #2 corners. I laughed out loud when BA said it was fixed. It’s still a disaster back there. Licht’s drafts have set this franchise back so far.
September 26th, 2019 at 6:23 am
The secondary got exposed against the Giants and by most counts, against inferior WR talent. That’s not a slight to Sterling but lets be real.
Hopefully, there will be a better game-plan when we face the Rams.
September 26th, 2019 at 6:40 am
The problem was mental mistakes not physical mistakes for the most part. That’s both good and bad, I mean it’s good that our guys aren’t just crappy with no ability BUT why do they turn guys free and not know what they are doing? In addition to the secondary we had two times where we easily had leverage on Daniel Jones if we play it correctly so the defense was called correctly the players just did not take a good angle. That is not physical ability that is KNOWING how to do your job so you would think that is correctable but then again we have heard that before a time or two. It just really sucks cause if we just make the plays that were there to be made we blow them out and the coaching decisions the kicker and all of that are a non-issue but that is why coaching, caring and preparing matters. In summary it just sucks.
September 26th, 2019 at 6:42 am
We are playing better than years past on defense. There’s going to be lots of growing pains even with better coaching but we do need a tru shutdown corner back there an Idk if any of our guys back there can be that it’s still really early but hopefully guys like bunting, dean an Davis can become that
September 26th, 2019 at 6:45 am
Loser Franchise
September 26th, 2019 at 6:47 am
TDTB … I agree with your bottom line (“The Bucs front office is horrible”) but the guys we have are still ‘good enough’ to win with. Of the 5 ‘starters’ (nickel to me is a close to a starter position), we’ve started VHIII, Davis, MJ Stewart, Whitehead & Edwards. ALL except VHIII are rookies or 2nd year guys. Where’s the LEADERSHIP in that group? (And please don’t say VHIII). They’re all just incredibly young & inexperienced, and haven’t really had much time to develop chemistry back there. It’ll come, but eventually I expect to see VHIII & MJ Stewart (the slowest in the pack) replaced as SMB & Dean get up-to-speed, Ryan Smith returns & Justin Evans heals up.
Until then, ‘What You See Is What You Get’ (good old WYSIWYG).
September 26th, 2019 at 7:08 am
Jamel Dean is our best chance for a shutdown corner. He has both the speed and length, just needs some time to develop.
After the draft, I thought Sean Murphy-Bunting was going to be a steal but for some reason, he is in BA’s doghouse. Not sure why the Bucs lost confidence in him. He also has both the speed and length to excel in this league.
Stewart has surprised me this year. I wasn’t sure he would make the 53 cutdown before the summer but man this kid has stepped up. He has the body type to be a nickle back. Strong enough to blitz and tackle like a safety and quick enough to cover the slot receiver.
September 26th, 2019 at 7:08 am
Hmmmm, Did not a Coach say that VG3 was a nickle years ago?????????? And know some of the sheep are “realizing” the talent is not there on the roster?????????
Incompetent loser lovie smith (2014-2015) 25.84 pts per game
Coach Smitty (2016-2018) 24.97 pts per game
Mark Duffner (2018-2018) 26.45 pts per game
Toilet Bolwes (2019-????) 25.67 pts per game
2019 will reveal answers to the sheep, that the “real” fans already know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
September 26th, 2019 at 7:14 am
Alabama not trying to be a jerk but Stewart had a huge bust on the Giants last drive when he just turned his guy loose while the rest of the defense was in man. It was a major bust and something that just cannot happen
September 26th, 2019 at 7:29 am
I’ll take some heat for this but IMO Ryan Smith is our best all around CB…..he is a fantastic tackler & is very good on ST.
It will help us when he returns.
September 26th, 2019 at 7:34 am
When you draft a small school DB in the second round when SEC talent is sitting there and the kid is raw and not able to play, you can see the problem!!
September 26th, 2019 at 7:40 am
Never seen a fanbase take an OPINION so matter of factly hell apparently they should just default the game. This isn’t 2018 season watch them play, this isn’t the same offensive juggernaut, weak-minded loser fans deserve a team to match.
September 26th, 2019 at 7:52 am
Sometimes Michael Clayton says some stuff that is waaaay out there. This is not one of those times.
The QBs against us so far seem to have noticed this too. Too often they dont have a problem getting rid of the ball within a second and a half.
September 26th, 2019 at 8:09 am
clayton has no clue what he’s talking about…..lol….
giving up the booty?…lol…
VHG got a pick6 week1….won the game week2….
CB’s are going to have a lot of tackles if they’re keeping everything in front of them…..DUH…..
week3 entire secondary didnt show up and folks want everyone in the secondary replaced….lol….
the DB’s had a bad game…..time to move on…..they’ll bounce back….
GO BUCS!!!!!
September 26th, 2019 at 8:20 am
Trade Cam Brate. Use the money plus the JPP restructured contract and sign Jalen Ramsey. Please…
September 26th, 2019 at 8:24 am
We would’ve been better off trading all the picks we’ve used the last few years on DB’s for two proven corners. Licht used a first rounder on Hargraves, and a high second on Bunt Cake, and I’d trade them, and the rest of the secondary for one Jalen Ramsey. If you don’t know it by now you never will, Licht can’t draft worth a sh#t! Of course had he used some of those picks on D linemen instead of crappy corners at least we’d have a pass rush. Licht has to go! Blow the whole thing up next year. New GM, coach, and QB. In case you haven’t figured it out Jameis isn’t the answer at QB either.
September 26th, 2019 at 8:39 am
we trade for ramsey and he’ll be DJAX 2.0….LOL….
we have what we need on the roster….we’re still in SEPT folks….lol…
GO BUCS!!!!
September 26th, 2019 at 8:53 am
realist
no….
that incompetent coach drafted him to be an outside CB in a outdated soft zone scheme….
his scheme failed and now TB is using VHG the correct way….
1 pick6 and 1 game winning tackle is more than he ever did in smitty’s scheme….
GO BUCS!!!!!
September 26th, 2019 at 9:11 am
Now Coach Smitty was scouting and running the draft??????????? That is crazy talk even for you!!!!!!!!! He asked for players for a hybrid system, which only ran for a handful of games until She-mc did not like it!!!!!!!!!!!!! Then the licht weight doubled down each year bring in all those slappies to ” build” around She-mc, which she-mc wanted to keep running incompetent loser lovie smith scheme!!!!!!!!!
Joe reported a couple of times that Coach Smitty did not want to be here in 2018!!!!!!! But he never asked and wonder why!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why is vh3 here if Coach Smitty was the only one that wanted him???? Why is he starting then????? Why did they pick up his 5th year option??????? You are making even less sense then usual!!!!!!!!!!!!
2019 will reveal answers to the sheep, that the “real” fans already know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
September 26th, 2019 at 9:13 am
@ 813 Bucboi
You have a point. But would you rather see him go the New England and be an All-Pro/Hall of Famer for them instead? It’s funny how D-Jax went back to Philly and seems to be doing fine except for the recent injury. Sometimes you have to take a chance when the talent is rare and valuable.
September 26th, 2019 at 9:26 am
Hargreaves is the worst starting corner in the NFL. Could see that since his rookie year!
September 26th, 2019 at 9:45 am
Why not trade for Patrick Peterson? Since he was suspended the first 6 games I’m sure that voided any guarantees in his contract. I say trade for him because you can won’t have to use any of your premium picks to get him. You probably can give a 4 and 7 along with Brate IMO.
September 26th, 2019 at 11:24 am
realist
VHG is here because he knows what he’s doing unlike smitty!!!!!!!!
VHG is starting because TB’s scheme fits him better!!!!!!!
VHG had his 5th year picked up because THIS staff will put him in position to be successful…..
and with a pick6 and game winnning stop, he’s already done more in 3weeks under TB’s system than anything he’s done in smittys trash system!!!!!!!!!
why is smitty still unemployed?…….answer that question!!!!!!!!!!!
you sound dumb as hell as usual!!!!!!!!!!!
GO BUCS!!!!!!!!
September 26th, 2019 at 11:35 am
marine
let him go to NE…..he wont be the first HOFer to go there….lol…imo, we can win without him…..
i dont want him because i can see him getting paid, balling out and then wanting another deal 2years into the contract he just signed….we dont re-do his deal, he’ll sit out or demand a trade…..
it’ll always be drama with him…..just like djax….
GO BUCS!!!!!