Thank You, Shaun King!
August 27th, 2019
A research direction took Joe on a dark, dark path in the wee hours of this morning, one that outlines the unspeakable suffering of Bucs fans.
The data focused on a key element to the game of football: points. Only once in the history of the Buccaneers franchise has Tampa Bay ranked in the top-10 teams for points scored in a season. Once!
For those confused, Joe will translate. Through 43 NFL years, the Bucs have only been special at scoring points in one season.
That’s hard to do — and hard to comprehend.
The year was 2000, when 23-year-old quarterback Shaun King made 16 starts alongside a punishing running game. And of course, the Bucs were complemented by a defense that put up four touchdowns, plus Karl Williams took a punt return to the house.
Those Bucs averaged 24.3 points per game, good for sixth-best in the NFL. Last year, the Bucs racked up 24.8 points per game, but the league has changed to favor offenses. Scoring is up and that total ranked the Bucs at 12th in the league.
Joe is sharing this for no particular reason other than to commiserate with fellow fans.
Is this the year the Bucs finally step back in time to the Shaun King era?
Of course, after putting up all those points in 2000, the Bucs immediately fired their offensive coordinator and quarterback. But at least the two moves helped usher in the Jon Gruden era and the greatest memories in Bucs history.
August 27th, 2019 at 11:16 am
What an article! Go back to the Shaun King era? He had, what….two good games ever? Is that what we expect now?
August 27th, 2019 at 11:17 am
Geez I knew it was bad, but not that bad. Lol, thnx Joe’s.
August 27th, 2019 at 11:18 am
“Shaun King, one of two Buc Quarterbacks that lost a NFC Championship Game when his defense gave up 9 points.”
All of that & Shaun couldn’t get it done when it really counted…..
August 27th, 2019 at 11:22 am
I will never forget when Warrick Dunn put Shaun King on blast while a guest on the Jim Rome show. Well, as “on blast” as Warrick Dunn would get with anyone. I think the interview was in 2001 or 2002. He basically said he didn’t feel King put in the work or preparation that the team needed him to, that he could have done more in that regard.
August 27th, 2019 at 11:32 am
Dang Joe, those numbers are insane when put into perspective.
24.3 points per game in 2000, versus only 24.8 ppg in 2019 ?!?!? With all the rule changes that overtly favor offenses? (And it’s not like we were some offensive juggernaut in 2000 either….)
This is why I always tell you guys: Yards are meaningless! All that matters are points!
August 27th, 2019 at 11:44 am
I never understood why they fired Les Steckel after that year…run game was absolutely amazing
August 27th, 2019 at 11:46 am
Joe…didn’t you leave out part of the story? I remember those years. Many of us thought King might be a serviceable QB after that year. But it seems like he stopped developing, deciding instead to go on the celebrity circuit. And came in the next year unimproved, when he needed to step forward.
Now in all fairness, maybe he had reached his full potential. Really don’t know. But as I remember, King made the mistake many young men do after some success…he kicked back and enjoyed that success instead of working all the harder.
August 27th, 2019 at 11:47 am
This post is probably the biggest indictment of how low the football IQ is of the Joe who post the majority here
The Bucs 2000 points per game total was skewed by a few high scoring games
In 9 of 16 games they failed to score 24 points
11 of 16 games King three for either ZERO or 1 TDs
10 games King failed to pass for even 200 yards
Let’s stop saying King led the Bucs anywhere other than wasting epic defensive performances dude was dragged by a defense to the nfc title game
August 27th, 2019 at 11:49 am
BFFL…right on and if dungy had more emphasis on the forward pass maybe the bucs get a legit veteran nfl qb the bucs go to the super bowl
August 27th, 2019 at 11:52 am
& Les Steckel was fired immediately after the season, if memory serves…
August 27th, 2019 at 11:54 am
312… That is more the picture. As I remember, he just stalled out in his development and never really showed high level starting QB skills. And I remember later hearing that he fell into the success trap,.. not the first time it has happened to a Bucs QB. I don’t think Jameis has that problem, though I wonder if he just has the skill set to be a franchise QB. I hope so, because I don’t want to go through that cycle again,,,,,
August 27th, 2019 at 11:57 am
Shaun King was a prime example of the Peter Principle. He achieved the maximum he could possibly achieve with hands the size of a 12 year boy.
The best move he ever made to go down in Buc history forever, was to always position himself in the same picture frame as Gruden during the Super Bowl season. Brilliant!
Warrick Dunn shouldn’t be so critical of physically handicapped players.
August 27th, 2019 at 12:01 pm
Loyaltotheend,
That’s a nice breakdown but I think it’s safe to say that for most teams or players, stats are skewed by a few great individual or team performances. The 2016 Buccaneers went 9-7 but that record was skewed by a five game stretch where the defense played really well. The rest of the season that team was not very good at all. Drug Shamster’s 2015 All Pro season was skewed in the sense that he only ecliped 100 yards in a game six times. One game he rushed for 235 yards.
The game is full of ups and downs, but averages matter too and the team that season performed well relatively speaking. Even the Rams that year had their scoring average helped by 6 games where they scored more than 40 points. One game they had 57 points.
August 27th, 2019 at 12:19 pm
We were 21st in yards but 6th in points…. isn’t it amazing what happens when you don’t turn the ball over and are efficient in the redzone????
August 27th, 2019 at 12:24 pm
D-Rome
You need to realize that all averages are skewed up or down by something other than average performances. All 2000 yard runners in history of the NFL had some truly remarkable single game performances… after all, to achieve 2000 yards one must average 125 yards a game… so if a guy gets 50 yards in one game, he’ll need 200 in the next game for it to even out… and that’s how it has worked. No player that has led the league in anything has done so without having absolutely MONSTER games that upped their average. Oftentimes this is done by having freakish stat games against weaker opposition to inflate the numbers. You can’t pull aside certain numbers and say that it doesn’t count, they all count. Even in the case of the most overrated RB in NFL history.
The most overrated RB in NFL history, is also the same guy that is often confused with being the greatest RB in NFL history oftentimes had a very poor statline with the exception of one big run. If a player had 19 rushes for 38 yards you would say he had a poor game. Now throw in the 62 yard TD run and the guy finishes with 20 rushes for 100 yards and a TD and everybody says he did great despite the fact that the RB was unsuccessful on 95% of his runs, lost yards on nearly 20% of his runs, and put his offense in a 3rd and long hole the majority of the time….but what about that 62 yard TD run? Never mind that his team lost 28-13 because he couldn’t convert short yardage and set up the pass and didn’t keep the defense off the field, he had a highlight reel run. And that fact alone is why people THINK Barry Sanders was the greatest RB that ever played and ignore the fact that his inconsistency was a huge reason why the Lions struggled while he was there.
August 27th, 2019 at 12:40 pm
Those were great memories.
August 27th, 2019 at 12:42 pm
Brandon…that and Barry got 1/2 his career yards playing the Bucs twice a season in the old Central. 🙂
August 27th, 2019 at 12:51 pm
I always thought the Les Steckel firing was ridiculous. He did that with Shaun King as QB, but he did have Lorenzo Neal blocking for Allstott. How about that for a big set. Defenses hated to face our run game. I think Dungy had an issue with Steckel because he wasn’t conservative enough.
August 27th, 2019 at 12:54 pm
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Last yr we only had like 20 or so participants.
Sign up FREE!!!
http://fantasy.espn.com/nfl-pigskin-pickem/2019/en/group?groupID=99276
August 27th, 2019 at 12:54 pm
Sorry I forgot to mention that is just a Straight Pick’em League!
August 27th, 2019 at 12:57 pm
How many of those points were scored off of turnovers by the defense. I’m sure the Defense handed them the ball in FG range more than once.
August 27th, 2019 at 1:08 pm
Say D-Rome..You’re a Buc historian. I remember when Dunn blasted King. Dunn has said repeatedly a couple of those yrs with King should have been Superbowl years. He has often said King did not do what was necessary not put in the time to utilize his talents. He also said King had more talent than he ever showed or knew he had. I kinda got the feeling Dunn felt King was just relying on god-given talent and not studying or putting in the required work.
August 27th, 2019 at 1:08 pm
………..Joe, my comment was awaiting moderation and now it has disappeared.
Am I not allowed to post the link to the JOEBUCSFAN.com’er Pick ’em league any more?
You have let me do it for the last few years! Please let me know.
August 27th, 2019 at 1:20 pm
Back to the Shaun King days! Nobody in the history of football, since the forward pass was invented, accidentally threw the ball backwards in his throwing motion than Shaun King.
Joe, your obsession with some players and pining for them is truly remarkable. Especially since all you do is blog about football, you would think just through osmosis you might actually learn the difference between a good player and a bad player. Apparently not…
In BA I Trust!
August 27th, 2019 at 1:25 pm
“…plus Karl Williams took a punt return to the house.”
Man, the days with Karl “The Truth” Williams. One of my favorite all time Bucs. A dependable player who had many great returns and some big catches.
Just watched some highlights of him on youtube. I wouldn’t advise watching it. It will make you sad seeing the fun days of the big loud, crowds at the stadium (Big Sombrero and Ray Jay) along with those great old uniforms– both the orange and the pewter. God, that was fun…
August 27th, 2019 at 1:51 pm
But at least the two moves helped usher in the Jon Gruden era and the greatest memories in Bucs history.
Indeed!!!!
The ultimate experience for a NFL football fan – Super Bowl Victory!!!!!!
Thank you Glazers and Gruden!!!!
Young Bucs fans I wish you that experience in your lifetime.
Go. Bucs!!!
August 27th, 2019 at 2:01 pm
i never I thought I’d say this but those uniforms pictured are beautiful. After living with the crap we wear now for 3 plus years… i really do miss those sweet threads
August 27th, 2019 at 2:08 pm
SB we doing the pickem again?
I’m in
August 27th, 2019 at 2:26 pm
As I recall, Coach Dungy said that Les Steckel was “not a good fit”. This, of course, meant that Steckel was instilling discipline and holding the offense accountable. That firing was the epitome of proprioception!
August 27th, 2019 at 2:34 pm
That was when we had Lorenzo Neal at FB. I remember Les Steckel the OC was a former military guy….. and guess what? The Bucs fired him in the off season.
August 27th, 2019 at 2:42 pm
The Glszer Boys have no one to blame but themselves.
They Jettisoned two very good coaches and have lived to pay the consequences for those hasty actions.
Additionally, our idiotic fan base gave them cover.
No playoffs for 12 years sure has been fun.
However, Arians is a good hire and I expect good things. Lets not run him off too.
August 27th, 2019 at 3:02 pm
King could eat his way through the NFL.
August 27th, 2019 at 3:03 pm
Less Steckel and more touchdowns
August 27th, 2019 at 3:10 pm
“Burger” King became certainly:
plump, stout, overweight, heavy, large, solid, chubby, portly, rotund, flabby, paunchy, pot-bellied, beer-bellied, dumpy, meaty, broad in the beam, of ample proportions,
Headed to East Texas in October to hunt some of these……
August 27th, 2019 at 3:26 pm
I like Shawn King, but come on, the guy put up well under 3000 yards, only 18 TDs, although he ran for 350 yards and 5 TDs – very Mariota like numbers.
The Bucs offense last year set team records for points and yards.
Meanwhile back in 2000, the Buc’s defense scored 6 TDs, and special teams scored another TD. Last year, the Bucs defense scored 1 TD, and zero from special teams.
Anywho, 2000 is considered an off year for the defense, yet the team outscored opponents by over 100 points.
Also, the 2000 Rams @ Bucs game is THE best regular season Bucs game in history, and Dunn made an amazing play while being tackled in the backfield to lateral the ball to King who turned it into a big play, all inside the final 2 mins of the game. Really entertaining game. Also Warren Sapp absolutely levels Kurt Warner on an INT return, for that alone you should go watch it. Oh, and that’s the game where Lynch just absolutely destroys Marshall Faulk with a huge hit. Really, go watch it again, it’s a really entertaining game.
August 27th, 2019 at 4:51 pm
I happened to love Shawn King at QB. That MNF game against the Rams was magical. My favorite non Super Bowl playoff game EVER, by far. And Shawn was great in that game. Will never forget the hook and ladder
August 27th, 2019 at 4:54 pm
This is why all of Winston’s fake records mean nothing. Passing is way up. He’s AVERAGE at best but the ignorant buc fans want to claim he’s better than Brady or Manning because he put up XYZ yards when everyone’s grandma is throwing for 4000.
Wake up people!
August 27th, 2019 at 4:56 pm
@ Miken – What Joe failed to point out and you are definitely missing is all of the turnovers the Buc defense created back then. Lots of turnovers giving King and the offense great field position. Don’t let your hatred of JW obscure the fact that the team was 21st in yards and 6th in points. The only logical explanation is that the defense was creating turnovers and leaving the offense with great field position on a regular basis.
August 27th, 2019 at 4:57 pm
smoothie king… haha was a backup and played over his shoes. dungy really screwed up by not investing in a qb and rolling w dilfer.
August 27th, 2019 at 5:17 pm
Not just turnovers but three and outs. Opposing teams were constantly punting from inside their 20 setting us up on the 50 most of the time.
August 27th, 2019 at 6:17 pm
I mixtoread these comments and they are hillarious…..King had what Winston hasn’t had in his 4 years with the Bucs…..Winston doesn’t have the O-line, run game, nor that world class defense.
Just let your imagination run wild if you would…..According to a lot of the comments, King didn’t have the work ethics to be great……But from all accounts, most would agree that Winston has the work ethics…..What if Winston had a RB combo of Alstott and Dunn with his present receiving Corp….And Lord a mercy, that awesome defense…..And let’s not forget Automatica Grammatical.
Just think about it for a minute, NO team in the history of the NFL has won a championship or Super Bowl without a great run game or a greater defense….We can go all the way back to the late 60’s & 70’s when team defenses had nicknames like – ” The Purple People Eaters, The Steel Curtain, Orange Crush” and many more…..The Ravens won a Super Bowl with Trent Differ…..Who woulda thunk it….Yet they had a killer defense….Can anyone name me a team that had a great QB but no run game or great defense to win a Super Bowl……Football is a team sport and no one person is responsible for the success or failure of the team…..A lot of ya’ll want to drop the hammer on Winston for the failure of the Bucs…..But his 4 year offensive #s don’t bear to that.
August 27th, 2019 at 6:18 pm
I’am readng these comments and they are hillarious…..King had what Winston hasn’t had in his 4 years with the Bucs…..Winston doesn’t have the O-line, run game, nor that world class defense.
Just let your imagination run wild if you would…..According to a lot of the comments, King didn’t have the work ethics to be great……But from all accounts, most would agree that Winston has the work ethics…..What if Winston had a RB combo of Alstott and Dunn with his present receiving Corp….And Lord a mercy, that awesome defense…..And let’s not forget Automatica Grammatical.
Just think about it for a minute, NO team in the history of the NFL has won a championship or Super Bowl without a great run game or a greater defense….We can go all the way back to the late 60’s & 70’s when team defenses had nicknames like – ” The Purple People Eaters, The Steel Curtain, Orange Crush” and many more…..The Ravens won a Super Bowl with Trent Differ…..Who woulda thunk it….Yet they had a killer defense….Can anyone name me a team that had a great QB but no run game or great defense to win a Super Bowl……Football is a team sport and no one person is responsible for the success or failure of the team…..A lot of ya’ll want to drop the hammer on Winston for the failure of the Bucs…..But his 4 year offensive #s don’t bear to that.
August 27th, 2019 at 6:23 pm
I remember Dungy saying, upon Les Stekel’s hire, that: “I’ve never been so aligned with a coaches’ philosophy as I am with Les.” (close to verbatim)
Les’ offense sets a record, with a mediocre QB and below average overall offensive talent then, is fired!? No comprende?
August 27th, 2019 at 11:24 pm
Man, Dungy sure put together a legendary defense. Sorry Chucky.
August 28th, 2019 at 12:29 am
Winston is Jeff George
August 28th, 2019 at 4:33 am
Y’all do remember we went to the playoffs with King right but of course we had a badass defense. Imagine that with Winston playing at his best all season
August 28th, 2019 at 9:54 am
Tiny hands 🖐 🤚
August 28th, 2019 at 4:22 pm
“Winston is Jeff George”……CLASSIC!!!!