No More Jump Balls
August 4th, 2019
Solved Jameis’ riddle?
Yes, even when America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston, does well in practice and Joe twitters out the videos, legions of haters always have a pithy reply.
It seems Jameis has to be perfect not to get one-liners thrown his way. And just maybe, Bucco Bruce Arians has found a way to get Jameis completing more passes.
After practice tonight, Arians was asked about Jameis and he talked about a habit of throwing too many jump balls for receivers. There is a time and place for jump balls, Arians said. The end zone, specifically when Mike Evans is a target.
In-between the 20s? Knock it off, Arians said.
“I hate that he missed Chris [Godwin] on the one [deep ball],” Arians said. “He threw him a jump ball, thinking he’d go up and take it away. Just hit him in stride. He’s doing a really good job with [Breshad] Perriman.”
This ought to be interesting to watch. Changing this in Jameis is a whole lot easier said than done. Jameis has been throwing it this way, maybe since he was drafted. You cannot expect a quarterback to change the way he throws overnight after using one way for four seasons.
But it is interesting that Arians said Jameis throws so many jump balls. Hell, cutting that may also cut down on his picks.
August 4th, 2019 at 4:57 am
don’t tell me, show me
August 4th, 2019 at 5:17 am
@Joe … “You cannot expect a quarterback to change the way he throws overnight after using one way for four seasons.”
Uhh, roughly $30 million reasons says you’re wrong Joe. IF Jameis expects to have a good year & grab the whole enchilada going forward, he’ll listen intently to BA & do exactly what he wants. And what BA wants is no more jump balls.
Throwing jump balls is a CHOICE on Jameis’ part. And BA has spoken: BAD CHOICE.
August 4th, 2019 at 6:05 am
A couple of years ago someone on broke down every turnover by Jameis. His conclusion was that the turnovers by Jameis on poor throws and bad decisions were pretty rare and to be expected by someone ask to throw 30-50 times a game. His redzone interceptions were rare and very rare if you take out the no time on the clock have to throw it or it’s the half or end of the game attempts. This was the year Ali was center so lots of bad snaps and Barber fumbled a few handoffs that all got put on Jameis. Jameis wants to win his turnover stats be damned. I like that he’s not thinking about negotiating his next contract only wants to win games. Jameis’s blind spot is giving up Ints short and over the middle he doesn’t see the MLB at times going back to college. I’m sure if I know this BA has already addressed that issue. He’s got to eliminate the games like Cinci last year. That too can be managed by better in game coaching.
BA’s teams win more than they lose the close games and that’s what you need to be a successful team in this league. Disciplined team and good in game coaching has been rare in these parts.
August 4th, 2019 at 6:21 am
Bingo joez
Totally agree. I like perriman connection. Hope he can stay healthy as that has been his problem in NFL . The turnovers is Jameis Achilles since being a buc. Is that the only reason the Bucs are losing. Of course not. But it doesn’t help. It’s been part of problem. Agree on jump ball rationale.
Here is the stat that matters in my opinion. I know QBR is important. But I think another stat is more important which separates the men from the boys.
TD to INT ratio. If Jameis is at 2-1, his career is at 50/50 win/loss percentage or slightly better. Bucs have lost to many 1 score games. Is that all a result of Jameis …of course not…BUT …Go look at the top tier QBs in the “new “throwing NFL (brees , Brady , mahommes , Rodgers ). They are actually like 4–1 or better most years.
And I know Rodgers record last year was bad. Look at his stats though. I think he threw 28 td to 2 picks. Now , that’s a team that is losing in spite of their qb play. Which shows it is a team game. But QB play most definitely matters.
I would take those Rodgers stats in a heart beat. So 2 to 1 td to int ratio shows a clearer picture if a qb is more of a game manager ( with a team winning or losing in spite of their QBs play ) or if their QB is elite and winning as a result of their QBs play.
And I don’t care if he throws 15 INTs. Cause 30 tds ,it’s worth the trade off. If Jameis is 2 to 1 , look out buc fans…the Bucs most likely have a winning record. Jameis has the best receiving and tight end group in the Nfl.
I already predicted he would throw for 5,000 yards this year
But let’s wait to see how many Tds and INTs he throws cause that does matter in today’s NFL
August 4th, 2019 at 6:28 am
Hitting a receiver in stride is a good way to extend plays and get YAC yards. It also prevents a receiver from taking unnecessary hits while he is in an unprotected position. One other thing Jameis can improve on IMO, is how he leads a receiver . I have seen passes where our receiver has beaten his man but the
pass leads him so close to the sideline that they can’t stay inbounds. There is a time and place for the toe tapping receptions that Evans is so good at, but not on deep passes where our receiver has already beaten his man.
August 4th, 2019 at 6:41 am
Hmmmmm. Something I have been saying all along. A third of his completions to Evans are jump balls.
August 4th, 2019 at 6:43 am
Hey Joe: something that you may also want to focus on. First game is the year against the miners is a must win, as 5 of the next 6 games are away games. I am counting London as an away game. Pretty scary.
August 4th, 2019 at 6:43 am
Niners.
August 4th, 2019 at 7:03 am
I think BA said ” hit him in stride”….hmmmmmmmm
August 4th, 2019 at 7:08 am
Throwing jump balls by definition means that you are not throwing to an open receiver……
If the thought process is “I’m going to throw a jump ball” you are not really thinking “I am going to find an open receiver or check it down or throw it away.”
August 4th, 2019 at 8:20 am
Throwing a “jump ball” means you are forcing the ball to a receiver. That needs to stop. The fact Winston has some really talented guys should not preclude safer throws…unless in desperation.
August 4th, 2019 at 8:32 am
Beast!!!
August 4th, 2019 at 9:01 am
I read somewhere that Jack Cichy had a really good day Saturday.
Glad he healed up!
August 4th, 2019 at 9:04 am
I think the jump balls were at Koetter’s insistence. Basketball football.
I liked Koetter but he made a fair share of mistakes.
August 4th, 2019 at 9:06 am
Jump balls to Evans are to take advantage of his height.
How many passes to Evans have been picked off over the years? None?
August 4th, 2019 at 9:09 am
And adversely it seems like when others (including BA) think Jameis had a good day, you give a pithy reply stating the opposite.
I think when it comes to Jameis, at least indicative of the first week of TC practices, you Joe(s) seem to have the complete opposite take than that of BA on Jameis.
Since BA is the QB Whisperer and you Joe(s) thought Johnny Manziel was a great idea (over Mike Evans I must add), I think I’ll go with what BA thinks and says…at least on this topic!
August 4th, 2019 at 9:12 am
Is the jump ball thing supposed to be big new finding? Winston has done that since Day 1, and it is only because he has had big receivers with a huge catch radius that he has not thrown EVEN MORE picks than he has. Or…he’s had guys like Hump that were great in coming back to the ball when needed. He has been very lucky to have ME13 and even VJ83 for a while there. “Hit him in stride” BA says? Like Perriman he says? That’s much better than it was with DJax but much improvment is needed.
Now, I didn’t see Winston throw any picks last night, and it was probably the best practice of the four I’ve seen this year, especially one pass to ME13 where he did hit him in stride and got a huge chunk of YAC. But he still overthrows quite a few.
What happened to all this about it’s just footwork, or now he has real coaches, or finally coaches he can relate to? And Fitz is gone. Are Gabbert and Griffin…new Fitzgerald threats that are rattling him?
If there is some sort of rationale emerging that “Oh well, this is just who Jameis Winston is” then he will be Jameis Winston somewhere else.
In the meantime, Bruce Arians, meet Jameis “Picks” Winston…the bottom-tier starting NFL QB that historically just goes out and does whatever he wants…good luck giving him YOUR input, Coach.
August 4th, 2019 at 9:17 am
Mmmmm I wonder where I’ve heard this before……?
Ndog Says:
August 3rd, 2019 at 9:46 am
When Jameis just let it rip yesterday he was OUTSTANDING. For instance in the red zone he was unreal with some of those throws. When he tried to be perfect he was average. He just needs to stop thinking, worrying, and trying to be perfect and he will be fantastic. He needs to have the Koetter sucked out of him in order to be what he can be. Remember the lines “you are the only one that can lose the game” or “just give them a chance on the deep ball”. You hear things like that over and over again and it causes one to put a lot of pressure on themselves or to try to always put the deep ball up for grabs instead of just letting it fly? If you people can’t see the damages Koetter did to this team, in multiple ways, then I’m not sure your fit to watch sports anymore.
Ndog Says:
August 3rd, 2019 at 12:17 am
So I finally got to go to practice tonight and the one thing I would like to see from Jameis is for him to just turn it loose. He seems to put to much air under the ball and at times that causes it to sail. Even on those throws into the windows of the zone he needs to drive the ball to the receiver to allow them to have some time after the catch to make a move. Tonight he had Perriman wide open deep but almost intentionally he threw the ball high up in the air like a jump ball when if he just ripped it downfield it would have been an easy TD. What is baffling is that he can make every throw so it makes me think the crappy coaching that Koetter gave him screwed up his mechanics. I vividly remember Koetter telling him on the deep ball just make it a 50/50 ball just don’t overthrow it. Well now he just hangs it up there no matter what. Man Koetter sucked sooooo bad. Also tonight you could clearly see Arians motioning to Jameis to keep the ball more on a line instead of lofting the ball in so much. If he would just fire that freaking thing I’m telling you top 10 QB with easy, but that is a big if.
Exactly 24 hours BEFORE Arains said this so did I. So anyone saying I don’t know what I’m talking about, what now!?!?!?!
August 4th, 2019 at 9:27 am
@JG…last night was my 4th practice…and to me it was Winston’s best since camp started. I don’t pretend in any way to have anywhere near the accumen BA does (and I willl of course let the Joes speak for themselves)…but it does seem (and would be logical and expected) that what BA says publicly about Winston early on in camp would be glossed over a bit compared to what even a casual football fan would notice. I see what Joe writes as being pretty accurate over the five years we’ve seen Winston in camp.
Looming out there is this is a completely new offense where for the first time in Winston’s career someone other than Koetter isn’t behind it in some way. And Winston still has the same issues. The….same….issues. Inconsistent. Bad decisions (throwing into traffic). Picks. Overthrowing receivers.
August 4th, 2019 at 9:34 am
I’m not sure if jump balls has made Winston’s INT rate worse. I woulldn’t think so in cases where ME13 was the target. But they do perhaps make Winston look like a better playmaker (at the end of the play) than he really is. There is no question Winston’s strength is that he can extend plays working in his own backfield. How many of those result in jump balls thrown? I don’t know, just asking the question. To me, more or less jump balls will likely not affect the INT rate (especially) if ME13 is the target, but BA’s orders to cut them out may have the oppostite effect he’d like: fewer big plays, more incompletions, and perhaps even more INTs or sacks (fumbles?) if Winston tries to force the ball wait longer. The woes of an inaccurate passer.
August 4th, 2019 at 9:35 am
As a QB at any level, Jameis should be expected to HIT PLAYERS IN STRIDE instead of throwin 50/50 balls on deep routes.
August 4th, 2019 at 9:36 am
Praying that Jameis doesn’t do to Mike Evans what Dilfer did to Horace Copeland….
August 4th, 2019 at 9:39 am
And side note, I hope Jack Cichy really is healed up. Idk if he’ll get much playing time other than special teams, but that dude is a beast out there. I love his demeanor.
August 4th, 2019 at 9:42 am
Ndog says (about Friday’s practice): “Tonight he had Perriman wide open deep but almost intentionally he threw the ball high up in the air like a jump ball when if he just ripped it downfield it would have been an easy TD. What is baffling is that he can make every throw so it makes me think the crappy coaching that Koetter gave him screwed up his mechanics.”
——–
Do you actually think “Winston can make every throw?” I guess a better question is do you think he can do it consistently? Or often enough?
Historically, I don’t think so, and regardless of whether it initiated with Koetter, Winston, or someone else, the jump ball could very well be the best chance he has to get it to someone due to his own inaccuracy, or probably more fairly said, lack of consistent accuracy.
August 4th, 2019 at 9:44 am
@Magadude
Fair point.
I love the Joe(s) work on most fronts, sans the Devin White/Pass Rusher/Lee giving up on the team charade (although I admired his passion), but I just thought it interesting how juxtaposed their opinions have been re: Jameis. I do agree some of it can be glossed over or embellished and a lot of the comments can be part of the mental mind-tricks and confidence boosting.
And I always got to give the Joe(s) crap over them selling out for Johnny Football which would have left us without our best player on the team for a guy not in the League…so I’m always hesitant to trust their QB opinions or prowess, specifically.
August 4th, 2019 at 9:48 am
I know he can make that throw and he hasn’t over the past four years because he was told to just throw it up. What about that don’t you get? He was coached to throw 50/50 balls to give his guys a chance by a coach who flat sucks at everything. Did you see how he handled the defense, the kicker, the running backs, the oline? Why would the QB be any different!
August 4th, 2019 at 10:06 am
Helps explain Evans not so great YAC rating. Jump balls have no chance to extend the play its just go up and try to come down with the ball. It also seems like a lower % success rate I would think.
August 4th, 2019 at 10:11 am
The day I heard Koetter say that I hated it. As a QB that is basically saying forget your talents that you have working on for years just throw it up. Ridiculous coaching!!!!
August 4th, 2019 at 10:24 am
Ndog…I’d have to take your word for it as I didn’t hear Koetter tell him to throw jump balls. So now the BA has said to stop it, no more issue right? Or will it continue to be Koetter’s fault for ingraining it into him?
August 4th, 2019 at 11:51 am
JW and Scotty Miller on the field jumping at the same time would be enough to make each other crazy, if not sending Coach A to a shrink’s couch.
August 4th, 2019 at 11:56 am
@alter, that’s not even remotely what BA said. But again you clealry dont watch practice and just troll to see your stupid thoughts typed out. Cant wait for a great season by Jameis in which you’ll be invisible from the comments section.
August 4th, 2019 at 12:00 pm
Yah. Koetter told him to just throw it up instead of hitting a receiver in stride.
😂
Cause most coaches want their QBs to to play the game “500 “ like we did when we were kids.
Give the receiver a chance means don’t overthrow them by 5 yards on deep ball where they don’t have a chance to catch it / Less touch it.
Do you understand the words that are coming out of your own mouth?
August 4th, 2019 at 12:02 pm
Now …when at the 5 yard line and mike Evans singled on outside
1 vs 1. No safety over the top cause so close to end zone.
Then yes throw it up to the former 6-5 basketball player. But throw it high enough which I remember one game last year we tried twice in a row and we were stopped
August 4th, 2019 at 12:12 pm
@Bird,
BA already stated that the only except-able 50/50 ball is “in the end zone” and to Mike Evans under certain circumstances.
August 4th, 2019 at 12:13 pm
Acceptable ** ^^^
August 4th, 2019 at 12:14 pm
@JGhoti86…got it. Me, I wasn’t paying much attention to Joe during the Manziel draft and other issues, but I remember Steve Duemig (RIP) was big on him, and he and I sparred on that one. I always thought Johnny Football was bad news…and I didn’t want to draft either Winston or Mariota for different reasons…
– Manziel – Not a team player, selfish, character issues.
– Mariota – Fragile; his strengths (running) do not translate for today’s NFL QB
– Winston – Quesitonable character; gunslinger.
August 4th, 2019 at 12:18 pm
Jghoti86
Yah. I agree. Im discrediting the comment before that it’s all koetters fault.
August 4th, 2019 at 12:20 pm
50/50 balls to Evans and Godwin are more like 80/20 balls – because both those receivers are among the best at high pointing and fighting for that ball.
Just Sayin…
But Jameis definitely needs to listen and do whatever BA is telling him to do – and perhaps most importantly, what NOT to do.
August 4th, 2019 at 12:21 pm
An NFL caliber coach is gonna say. Yah just throw it up Jump balls rule.
Accuracy doesn’t matter . Stepping into a pass doesn’t matter.
Technique and footwork doesn’t matter
Just throw up a jump ball
Makes sense. Darn that koetter. He did try to torpedo Jameis
August 4th, 2019 at 12:28 pm
Bird,
Gotcha. My b!
August 4th, 2019 at 12:33 pm
^^^Can’t wait for this season
About time we got some real coaching.
Defense could be filthy savages
August 4th, 2019 at 12:40 pm
Remember the Dunkaneers?
I believe that was all about playing to JW’s strength…..or um weakness.
August 4th, 2019 at 12:48 pm
Pickgrin … “50/50 balls to Evans and Godwin are more like 80/20 balls – because both those receivers are among the best at high pointing and fighting for that ball.”
Second part I agree wholeheartedly with Pickgrin, but 80-20? I seriously doubt that deep jump balls to ME13 & Godwin are even 50-50. Probably more like 33-67 or thereabouts. Just for kicks looked at last year’s 2nd game against the Saints. Winston threw 9 deep balls that day … he completed TWO for 57 yds total. So then I looked at the next game against the Ravens. Jameis threw 6 deep balls in that game … completed THREE for 107 yds. Next game (Dallas) he threw 10 deep balls … completed THREE for 87 yds. In the final game against the Falcons he threw 9 deep balls … completed SEVEN for 152 yds.
So in that last 4-game stretch, Jameis threw 34 deep passes and completed 15 of them (most of them in that last game against the Falcons). That’s a 44% rate for all 4 games, but only a 32% completion rate against the first 3 (with the better defenses). That’s probably closer to what folks should anticipate from Jameis’ deep passing game, especially since most of his deep passes in those games probably weren’t jump balls (those probably have an even lower completion rate). Deep balls are nice against bad defenses, but against stronger defenses I think Bucs need to be a LOT more selective in using them, AND set them up properly by keeping the defenses way off-balance.
August 4th, 2019 at 12:49 pm
Bird … ‘Filthy savages’? Best defense descriptor I’ve heard in years.
August 4th, 2019 at 12:52 pm
Im sorry but when you have a larry fitzgerald, randy moss, megatron, julio jones, gronk, mike evans etc, you do throw them 50/50 balls all day because like someone said its more like 80/20. When you have those type of players i listed in one one situations, most coaches will tell you to throw it there. Look no further than this past superbowl. The biggest play on the biggest drive, brady threw a 50/50 ball to guess who? GRONK!!!! I sure bellicheck was A OK with that jump ball.
August 4th, 2019 at 1:01 pm
Bird Says:
August 4th, 2019 at 12:21 pm
An NFL caliber coach is gonna say. Yah just throw it up Jump balls rule.
Accuracy doesn’t matter . Stepping into a pass doesn’t matter.
Technique and footwork doesn’t matter
Just throw up a jump ball
Makes sense. Darn that koetter. He did try to torpedo Jameis
Yeah hard to believe right, but is also hard to believe a coach would rotate guards, keep the same incredibly horrible defense, rip his running backs in the media. Yeah all of that is hard to believe but they all happened didn’t they tough guy? They guy was an IDIOT when it came to coaching and believe it or not he was even worse dealing people. But again you are arguing something he said there is proof yet you still argue, which goes to show you don’t care about accuracy or truth you flat just want Jameis Winston to fail plain and simple. Just admit it.
August 4th, 2019 at 1:13 pm
Ndog could argue glass is a liquid… SMH … it gets old dude!
August 4th, 2019 at 2:21 pm
DR – I should have said “well thrown 50/50 balls to Evans and Godwin are more like 80/20 balls “.
And perhaps the 80/20 is a bit of embellishment.
The point is still valid though – that Jameis has 2 of the best receivers in the league at coming down with “jump balls”.
August 4th, 2019 at 2:31 pm
Altered
No doubt. What a weird dude. Obsession is being kind.
Yah Never dog. You got me. I admit it. Start your grown up baby chant . It’s hilarious when you tell people to grow up here and that it’s fine to have an opinion and then do the exact opposite. Honestly , I would rather read Tsplex comments.
I want him to fail. I want the Bucs to suck.
Who wants to see the Bucs actually succeed
Season ticket holder forever and from Orlando . I enjoy driving over and watching them suck.
😂
Unless you have a custom made 69 Jameis jersey with the front cut out so you can rub your belly , you are a hater.
August 4th, 2019 at 2:39 pm
seems like solid advice from BA, the jump balls get tipped by our receivers than intercepted by the other team, important coaching!
August 4th, 2019 at 2:50 pm
See I make valid points and you simply talk trash. So it’s pretty clear who is the one that knows what he’s talking about. But go ahead and keeping make stuff up and I’ll keep making you look clueless. I love how you guys going to calling names once you have nothing left and been proven wrong.
August 4th, 2019 at 3:05 pm
Under “The Quarterback Whisperer” the task is to break old habits and mold new ones. Winston’s bad habits have been built through his college career, where he could truly get away with them, through his first four years in the NFL. It is on his previous staff that they did not address this properly with him.
Getting rid of bad habits at its simplest is replacing them with new good habits. BA and staff have had only a short few months to work on Winston. This should be enough enough, however
Bird, I am expecting to see him go from a 2-1 toward a 3-1 TD to INT ratio this year. Thirty-seven touchdown vs fourteen interceptions for the upcoming season would represent success in my estimation.
_____________
Go Bucs!!!
August 4th, 2019 at 3:15 pm
Senile
That’s what i was talking about earlier.
I think if Jameis is 2-1 td to int , Bucs will have winning record
If 3-1 …that’s likely playoffs.
August 4th, 2019 at 3:15 pm
That should be enough time, however.
August 4th, 2019 at 3:18 pm
Amen, Bird! That was your original point. I agree with you.
August 4th, 2019 at 3:22 pm
There is hypocrite dog.
Dude you call people names every dang day. No one dare criticize Jameis or it’s punk / clueless / idiot. He is off limits. Yet you rip other Bucs. Again Hdog.
I mean I don’t think you read your own posts.
And you know what you are talking about. You are the best . You have great points. True dat
Again …being a former jr college QB . And quarterback on madden …it makes sense.
😂
August 4th, 2019 at 3:56 pm
Winston is a high ball QB, trying to change that isn’t going to be easy at this point. It’s something Dirk should have been doing since day 1, but he didn’t.
August 4th, 2019 at 4:29 pm
If Jameis is Stanford smart and such an obsessive student of the game he would have corrected his wheels coming lose mechanics long long ago…IMO it has all been coached ,,,Jameis knows more than any coach could ever teach him and this has been apparent when he does whatever he thinks is best contrary to the script
August 4th, 2019 at 5:11 pm
Blah blah blah facts my friend facts. You just can’t stand that a professional coach who has worked to develop Peyton Manning, Big Ben, Andrew Luck and many others agreed with me word for freaking word. But I guess you know more than him to correct? Get over it bro. YOU’RE WRONG yet again. You would think you would be used to it by now as is seems to happen daily. Ha ha ha ha ha ha
August 4th, 2019 at 5:40 pm
Jameis doesn’t turn the ball over as much as wools think. Take away the bad routes, the Bears game he should never have been in, and Cindy, he’s a top 3 QB in the history of the game. He’s the best QB I’ve ever seen play. He’s on a level above Marino, Montana, Johnny U, Peyton Manning, John Elway, etc….
August 4th, 2019 at 5:40 pm
Everything is Dirk’s fault.
Convenient.
August 4th, 2019 at 6:17 pm
HC’s that lost there jobs after “coaching “…Jameis
Jimbo Fisher
Lovie Smith
Dirk Koetter
Bruce Arinas ?????
August 4th, 2019 at 6:43 pm
If Winston was so elite he wouldn’t be going into year 5 being called a make or break season. He would’ve already been resigned.
That is a fact.
Don’t get caught up in the minutiae.
August 4th, 2019 at 9:00 pm
Look at how many attempts Jamies made. Look at every game he played behind from three scores. Compare him to some other top tier qbs and his numbers are not horrible and they had better defenses. Cant wait to see how this team gels
August 4th, 2019 at 11:33 pm
LOL Am thinking Fisher got one helluva raise because of Jameis.
And last Joe checked, Fisher’s job wasn’t “lost.” He resigned. And some argue got a promotion.
So we’ve established facts mean nothing in your crusade to run Jameis out of town; what next? Joe is willing to bet you’d prefer the Bucs to lose if that meant a new quarterback next year. Sad.
August 5th, 2019 at 12:32 am
BucEmUp – Said it before, and will keep saying it until people aren’t boring everyone to death saying how bad Winston was last year. He was 4th in QBr, which takes into account him being down by 20 and forcing the ball to try to get the Bucs back into the game. Take away the God awful road game in bad weather in Cinny and he’d literally have been the #1 QB in QBr last season. People bad mouthing Winston are morons who should stick to watching My Little Pony on Sundays.
August 5th, 2019 at 6:30 am
He is what his record says he is. Anything else is just hot wind.