Better Than Average
July 13th, 2019
Interesting numbers.
Joe already promised to bring loyal readers things that jump out while Joe is studying the “Warren Sharp 2019 Football Preview.”
If you are a numbers guy, this publication is for you. Joe’s not much of a numbers guy (to be polite) and even some of Sharp’s detailed data is interesting to Joe.
Take America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston, for example. To hear and listen to some in the loud crowd, Jameis is a modern day version of Jerry Golsteyn. Per Sharp’s data, at worst Jameis can be accurately called “above average.”
Consider: Last season Jameis threw for an average yards per attempt of 7.9 yards on first down; 8.0 yards on second down; and 8.0 yards on third down. League averages last year were 7.7, 7.3 and 6.9, respectively.
Jameis’ success rate — which means if a play nets at least 50 percent of necessary yardage on first down, 70 percent on second down, or 100 percent on third or fourth down – beat the NFL average on first and third downs and tied the league average on second down.
So how exactly is Jameis one of the worst quarterbacks in the league, if you believe the hysterical hollering?
July 13th, 2019 at 9:12 am
Turnovers.
July 13th, 2019 at 9:15 am
Turnovers.. there was a stat I had seen during one of our games that Winston had more than even Bortles(the now benched and cut Bortles) I will agree with some It isn’t all Winston’s fault because we were usually down by a lot BUT there are times he has made critical undefendable mistakes in key moments of the game. This is the same way he was in college but in college, it is easy to overcome because you’re playing a lesser opponent at times. In the NFL every team is good and these mistakes are more magnified and hard to overcome.
IF Winston can fix his decision making to help lower his INT’s and fumbles I think he will be very good.
July 13th, 2019 at 9:22 am
That turnover talk is complete bs. Others have turn it over more than Winston amd still won. His turnovers are normal for a qb with no help in a run game
July 13th, 2019 at 9:24 am
The turnovers: lost fumbles, INTs, ass passes, And too many fumbles overall-even the ones we recover.
I hope this year we can win and see our #1 overall pick at QB ascend into “above average” (Top15 QBs)! Also want to see no tomfoolery off the field that can lead to Althea suspension- and coming back playing bad football because of it.
Make our team better through taking care of the ball, and for being a consistent, reliable teammate on and off the field. I believe it is possible, and I want to be proven wrong, but I m not sure if I see Jameis correcting the turnover frequency/overall fumbles.
July 13th, 2019 at 9:26 am
We know stats are for losers. We also know the wealth of yards from a passing game belongs belongs to the whole offense. Yes, Winston shares in that. He’s quite the ball slinger as far as being willing to throw it to anyone, anytime, where risk is no problem. Thank goodness he had receivers like Evans, Hump, Brate, and Godwin or who knows how horrendous things would be. Imagine how good this offense could be if the Bucs had a QB who could actually hit a receiver in stride and also not give the ball away like a Christmas fruitcake.
July 13th, 2019 at 9:27 am
The turnovers are very real, JayWill!
Wake up and see that Jameis’ turnover frequency contributes greatly to our bad team recover and results in the W-L column. Additionally, when your QB turns the football over more than the usual QB stats would suggest, your providing “complimentary” football towards a bad D and inning game.
It’s not all on Jameis, but wake up dude, it is on the QB (especially in this age of rules in the NFL) to lead the offense.
Why do we need to have an excellent D and Running Game and Special Teams to drag Jameis to the playoffs? Shouldn’t a #1 overall pick be a cornerstone to your franchise, and not a turnover machine that is one off field slip up away from a year ongoing suspension?
July 13th, 2019 at 9:27 am
LOL….what a Ringing endorsement….”Better than average”
July 13th, 2019 at 9:29 am
Winston 1st 4 years
56 games 1922 14,628yds 61.6% 88tds 58 int 38 fum (18 lost) 9 rushing tds
Tom brady first 4 years starting
63 games 2,015att 61.75% 13922yds 97 tds 52 int 43 fumbles(18 lost) 2 rushing tds.
How did Brady win 3 super bowls playing like Winston?
1. Good coach
2. Great defense
3. Respectable run game
4. Dependable special teams.
None of which Winston has had.
How did this guys win with their turnovers?
1st 4 years turnovers
Winston 76
Brady 70
Luck 69
P. Manning 92
Newton 65
Brees 63
E. Manning 76
Big Ben 62
That turnover talk is way over blown.
July 13th, 2019 at 9:30 am
I want to see JW3 get lore accurate with the presentation of his ball, when passing to receivers. Too many times guys are reaching back all over the place, getting crushed, and limiting YAC.
I remember seeing Fitzmagic drop some throws in the bucket, and our receivers were getting YAC.
It’s great that Mike Evans has a huge catch radius, and I want to see Jameis hot guys in stride. Not enough of that to be honest.
July 13th, 2019 at 9:30 am
^^^but of course, we know Winston is such a great role model and works so hard, no other NFL QBs could possibly compare. And of course, if we erase the first 3.5 years, his turnover and decision making problem, the CIN game, the first three games of the 2018 seaon where he wasn’t allowed around, and focus on his last six games, and his first game in college, wow, what a stud. His record is his record. He needs to clean it up. The clock is ticking.
July 13th, 2019 at 9:32 am
You take the worst game of his career to make your argument. Every qb with 4 years in the league has had a game like that Magadude
July 13th, 2019 at 9:32 am
@Jaywill, all good points…and we have to add of course, what did the Patriots have that the Bucs didn’t have? Tom Brady.
July 13th, 2019 at 9:33 am
JayWill,
Good points about the statistics accrued. However, I would also point out that these were different eras of football and now the QBs/WR are so much more protected, so I think today’s stats are easier to accrue.
I think Jameis has potential, just need to see it come t fruition.
I don’t that Jameis can do it, but I’m skeptical because we have been here before. Dilfer, Freeman, etc. we need a first round QB to be a no-doubt franchise QB.
July 13th, 2019 at 9:33 am
Jaywill, I talked about 3.5 years….NOT just his worst game. Open your eyes!
July 13th, 2019 at 9:35 am
Luck and Newton are part of this era…look at Goff with and withiut Gurley he is a different qb SteveK
July 13th, 2019 at 9:36 am
I don’t doubt Jameis, and I want to see him play good football on the field this year. He’s capable. I just want to see smart, winning, efficient football. I love Jameis’ heart and passion, now I want to see it build towards wins.
We can’t pay a guy $25 million per year if they aren’t a major reason that leads to wins. If we lose a bunch, than Jameis would need to put up some no doubt stats- like Mahones. Also, if we lose and his play is questionable, then we may cut bait and pay a rookie QB peanuts to allocate the $alary cap towards other positions.
July 13th, 2019 at 9:37 am
@SteveK…exactly. “Potential” rings hollow after 4 years and three HCs. The latest buzz is oh, he finally has coaches to turn him around. Heard that before too. Winston is in a hole he mostly dug himself. He has had help for sure, but it’s time to wait and see. And the click is ticking.
July 13th, 2019 at 9:39 am
Luck, Newton, and Goff had already accomplished much by the time they were in their fifth freakin year. Sometimes you do throw the baby out with the bathwater.
July 13th, 2019 at 9:39 am
Luck, Newton and Goff. I’d rather have any of the three and I see what you are saying. When watching those guys play football, they do a lot of what Jameis can do, but I would bet their turnover rate is better.
I bet those three QBs don’t change the play caller’s play and then potentially screw it up. And I bet those three guys are better at knowing their limitations and not forcing as many plays. I think Jameis gets a little too zoned in/confident and should live to die another play, but I do love his attitude. I just wish it wouldn’t lead to as many risky plays.
July 13th, 2019 at 9:40 am
Winston is a division with 1 hall of famer and 2 possible hall of famers at qb. He has no run game. I know defensive players on other teams that laugh at their play action because there so little respect for Bucs ability to run. The players I spoke to said Winston is their biggest running threat. Bucs has lost more games because of their defense and special teams then Winston. He isn’t perfect but he isnt the reason they are losing.
July 13th, 2019 at 9:42 am
Magadude,
Yup. Winston dug his way in this hole, and I’m pulling for him to come back out and do great.
Winston had the same offense for four straight years, and hopefully this new one will take him to the next level. I hope we get a great year, but the results this far leave me with some doubt. Not getting my hopes up until I see it on the field, consistently.
July 13th, 2019 at 9:48 am
Luck had 69 turnovers
Newton 65 turnovers to Winston 76
Goff didnt go to the worst team he was traded up for and always had Gurley. Goff isn’t a better qb as we saw when Gurley went down.
July 13th, 2019 at 9:49 am
@SteveK. Of course we hope he has a great year, and can hope that it translates to fan buzz and this sudden ground swell that sells out games and gets people talking again. But I doubt it for the same reasons you do.
July 13th, 2019 at 9:50 am
Having the same offense 4 straight years means nothing if you dont have a run game, respectable defense and reliable special teams. Why don’t people see that.
July 13th, 2019 at 9:57 am
Jaywill, I understand your pitch, and admire your support. Winston is missing a lot of pieces others had…but he also has pieces others did not.
If we want to compare Winston with successful QBs and pick and choose the factors, that’s not an honest effort unless there is a side by side of ALL things.
My point that I’m sure you know as well is one can use stats to make a case for whatever message they want to put out there. And that’s why I respond as I do when I see guys cherry pick stuff to make Winston look good. And it makes others boil and their only response is dumb things like I hate Winston, I’m racist, “everybody” has forotten the past, etc, which all makes me laugh. I look at all that stuff, good and bad…and so far, considering all, he’s not gotten it done. There is a reason (probably many) that he’s not locked up for another contract going into his fifth season. And time is running out.
July 13th, 2019 at 9:58 am
So, because Jameis is without a defense, special teams, and coaching his turnovers are exempt from accountability?
When you don’t have those things, turnovers matter even more.
Winston, as a member of the Buc TEAM, IS as responsible for the TEAM losing as everyone else.
July 13th, 2019 at 10:04 am
Jaywill,
Exactly, his turnovers are right on par for a guy playing with zero running game and a defense that allows the hughest comletiin percentages and the most.time of oosession to the opposing offense
July 13th, 2019 at 10:04 am
@Bucsfanman. Agree. I can only imagine how bad Winston’s stats would be with a below average receiving corps (yes, he has not had a great corps every year but he’s always had at least two well above average targets). And yes, SOME of his negative stats in turnovers factor in increased risk from having to play from behind…got it…but so does a slew of those garbage time yards people like to hold up. Gotta look at the WHOLE thing.
July 13th, 2019 at 10:06 am
The turnovers are never ok but come on guys this franchise put more on Jameis’ plate (far too soon) than possibly any other QB in history…
By now it’s like beating a dead horse around here but with the exception being an 8 game stretch the Defense has really sucked literally the entire time Jameis has been a Buc…How many times has our offense went out and started a game with 2 or 3 three and outs but on the flip side, our defense allows 2 or 3 scores by the opposing teams offense on their first few drives…
Just like that we’re down 14-0 or 21-0 and Jameis hasn’t even thrown an int yet…You put a young QB in a trail position with incompetent coaching, a bad defense and no kicking game…duh, of course he gonna throw some picks…
Some of them are bad decisions, but mostly all of them could’ve been avoiding if he didn’t have to go out and make chicken salad out of chicken spit every darn Sunday…
July 13th, 2019 at 10:11 am
Criticize McCoy and everything is good in the world. / you get people to agree with your posts. You are praised. Everyone has a negative nickname for McCoy it seemed. Someone that was good on and off the field. Unfortunately , His play slipped of late and his average play was not worth his contract so he is gone. Yet , His stats were better then average for a DT. But again most people said good riddance .
Criticize Jameis and you are a “hater”. A “racist.” How could you put any blame on this man. If you think his play has been average/ middle of the road like me (with highs and lows) , then someone brings up stats comparing him to Rodgers and Brady and Manning.
If you don’t absolutely worship or obsess over America’s quarterback , then you are the enemy and called an idiot. That you Just don’t know what you are talking about.
The hypocrisy on the site is pretty amazing.
July 13th, 2019 at 10:16 am
Training camp is coming.
July 13th, 2019 at 10:17 am
OneBuc55- None of it occurs in a vacuum. You can point to any aspect on this team and find fault. That includes the QB. It’s NOT any ONE aspect, player, or group. It’s ALL.
July 13th, 2019 at 10:19 am
How come journeyman Fitzmagic could accrue the same or better stats than JW3 in the exact same conditions, sans opponents where Fitzmagic player at NO, vs PHI, PITT and CHI (1/2)???
Let’s see it all come together. The QB can control their turnovers and we have too damn many to win, defense/running game/kicking game be damned!
July 13th, 2019 at 10:20 am
The fact is McCoy did some great things for the Bucs that Winston has not done.
McCoy was a fan favorite off the field too. Something Winston chose to throw away his first off season. What things do Winston and McCoy both lack? Key pieces elsewhere on their teams to be a catalyst for winning. So many blame McCoy for that but defend Winston. I thought McCoy was awesome who just wasn’t moving the needle in his last two years. It was time for him to go. Another thing that he may have in common with Winston…as the clock ticks.
July 13th, 2019 at 10:21 am
Bird,
Interesting take. I just keep it real. I feel that there are a lot of Buc fans are FSU/JW3 fans first. I root for the team first, period.
July 13th, 2019 at 10:24 am
@OneBuc55…over 40+ years, the Bucs have put a lot of would-be franchise QBs, too much particlarly in the 80s and 90s. And they didn’t have the obscene money dangled out there today QBs have now. The face of the franchise needs to carry much on his shoulders…more than his fair share frankly to justify being paid for bringing greatness. And so far, over four full seasons, Winston has not been able to carry just his own load.
July 13th, 2019 at 10:40 am
Winston all day !!!! He is electric ⚡️ going to be exciting with a historic coach.
July 13th, 2019 at 10:46 am
@SteveK hit the nail on the head… compare Fitz to JW last year. @Joe how do Fitz’s stats look… my guess is they are as good or better. Are you willing to put Fitz in the “above average” category? Or, are you willing to admit that the Bucs receiving talent can make any QB with enough arm to deliver it close to on target look good? All here are asking the right hypothetical questions: how good would the Bucs be with a QB who was consistently on time and on target? And how bad would JW be with a league average receiving corps? Answers: Great! and Out of a job! In the spirit of a statistically significant test, let’s forget about trying to get a RB or RG via trade and just swap JW for Tom Brady… and see what happens. My bet is Bucs and Brady would blow the NFC away on offense… and Pats would still make it to the playoffs as Bill would put so many restrictions on JW’s arm and mind that they’d lead the league in rushing. We, on the other hand, have assembled a small village of QB whisperers hoping to break through in year 5. I hope it works. :@
July 13th, 2019 at 10:46 am
Man, what is up with JW’s forehead?
It keeps growing and growing…..
Is he related to Worf on Star Trek?
July 13th, 2019 at 10:47 am
I understand and respect your opinion Megadude …
It’s a clique but it’s true, the QB gets to much credit after a win and too much blame after a loss…But the bottom line is, hypothetically speaking…if your QB puts up 35 points and your defense allows 42 points by the opposing offense…is it really your QBs fault you lost?
July 13th, 2019 at 10:48 am
So let’s give Jameis good Coaches, BA and his Assistants, a good defense like Bowles has produced before, and a productive OL with proper scheme, power blocking and not complicated zone blocking, then good yardage from his running backs, and then let’s see how Jameis fares. I predict you will find a winning Franchise QB who can take this team to the playoffs this year or next and you will see players brought in by Licht with potential will finally with excellent development and scheme show what they can really do and amaze the doubters here too.
July 13th, 2019 at 11:17 am
“How did Brady win 3 super bowls playing like Winston?”
When I read that, a cold chill ran up and down my spine.
Is that Belicheat’s grand plan? Is he just waiting for the Glazer’s incompetence and greed to bubble to the surface?
Will he offer Gump a magic bean for the rights to Jameis? Will he then sign JW to a guaranteed 20 year $300 million contract? Will the Pats then dominate the NFL for the next 2 decades?
Wow!
July 13th, 2019 at 11:20 am
OneBuc55….no, this is not all Winston’s fault. I agree. There is plenty of blame to around, and there are so many problems on this team. And the others (save for Licht) have gotten their due (as much as the salary cap can permit), have they not? Those who didn’t get up to standards…some big names no less, are gone, as are all the coaches. And Winston is not without many warts and he needs to clean up much to overcome his 4 season record, especially givn the issue is whether or not to pay him. Or he gets the same as they.
July 13th, 2019 at 11:46 am
nice try joe
July 13th, 2019 at 11:52 am
YAY for our “Above Average” QB. LOL.
You don’t pay an “Above Average” QB $30M+/year which is what an extension will cost the Bucs.
TIME TO MOVE ON from Winston and face the facts.
And for all of you throwing out all kinds of “stats” (except wins of course) to claim how Winston is so great and has all this potential…
Winston has had arguably the BEST WR CORP in the NFL, if not Top 3 for sure. You give many of those other NFL QBs that same WR corp and they would make Winston BELOW AVERAGE by comparison.
The NFL is a passing league. Our O-Line has done a tremendous job of protecting Winston. Lower sacks allowed than most teams AND this is with Winston that holds the ball longer than the average QB (as proven by stats joe recently posted in another article).
July 13th, 2019 at 11:56 am
Jameis Winston thus far in his career has proven to be a..VERY AVERAGE QB…
period! Spin it anyway you want to. Jameis has been average at best.
July 13th, 2019 at 12:13 pm
America’s turnover machine
July 13th, 2019 at 12:24 pm
Can’t win with 76 turnovers in 56 games
Especially in so many one score games
He’s at best above average, posting stats to confirm your opinion and overlooking the negative numbers is confirmation bias at its worst
July 13th, 2019 at 12:26 pm
Go Jameis!
Go Bucs!
July 13th, 2019 at 12:31 pm
Loyaltotheend Section 312….JayWill proved that you CAN win, by posting the TO’s of winning QB’s.
None of you guys have come back with anything to refute what he put down.
Just facts.
Fact is…. this team sucked before Jameis and will prolly suck long after Jameis, when he leaves out the door.
Batter up….next!
July 13th, 2019 at 12:54 pm
Mike Johnson Says:
July 13th, 2019 at 11:56 am
Jameis Winston thus far in his career has proven to be a..VERY AVERAGE QB…
————-
Loyaltotheend Section 312 Says:
July 13th, 2019 at 12:24 pm
Can’t win with 76 turnovers in 56 games
Especially in so many one score games. He’s at best above average,
————-
And to that I add…given the other baggage and headaches he’s caused his organization, is that something worth $140M? Oh he11 no. Lots to prove. Lots to pull out of the fire.
In my mind, what does he need to do? Winston plays lights out this year (including good decisions, and takes care of the ball–INTs half or better than TD passes with game results that reflect such play); carries his team down the field on a closing drive to win the game (and never ice it for the other team) at least a couple of times (yes, I know he’s led an offense that gave his team 4th quarter leads–lots of QBs do that–there will likely be plenty of one score games this year again); his team makes him the team captain and he earns it every day; he conducts himself on and off field regarding everything football with a requisite level of maturity; and for his off field stuff going forward, we get well into next offseason (2020) without a shred of something negative like an Uber or anything else (common for all NFL players) that makes him NOT be the image that would reasonably expected as the franchise QB for an NFL football team (I do mean “Brees-like” “Wilson-like” “Ryan-Like” “Mahones-like”), THEN I could entertain the idea of a franchise tag in 2020–which is a huge concession for it’s not cheap. Anything short of that, he needs to go.
For more time beyond 2020, I want to seem to do ALL the above through the 2020 season as well and into early 2021 calendar before supporting any notion to pay this him long term. That’s a tall order, no? Reasonable given all seen thus far? Yes. Winston needs to be as accountable as the others, most of whom lost their jobs here by now.
If he can do that, I could get back to where I was early 2017 where he was turning me from wishing we’d drafted a DE to being an advocate–only to blow all that up soon after in weapons-grade fashion. That’s my position on Winston. Joe made reference to a loan officer. He’s blown all of his credit with me. I need to see some tangible assets.
In the interim, he is what he is…and to me, not worthy yet. Just as Ive seen player and coaches come and go in the past, I hope he scores every play, wins every game, and it he doesn’t cut it, he needs to be gone.
The clock is ticking.
July 13th, 2019 at 1:12 pm
Inconsistent accuracy
Turnovers
Decision making
It’s like he doesn’t see the field in 3D
But he has had no running game and a marginal line
Not a bust not elite
July 13th, 2019 at 1:14 pm
Average…..Average….Average ..we talking Average!!! On a bottom feeding team with no running game, stinking O/Line, sub par defense, college coaching, don’t blame JW3 ….GO BUCS!GO SUHY!GO JW3! Screw them so called “real fans”!!!
July 13th, 2019 at 1:50 pm
I don’t care what anyone says the guy needs contacts or something and I don’t believe for one sec that him wearing the visor isn’t him protecting the contacts that he’s wearing. Would be interesting to see a stat of his passing once he started wearing the visor. I remember Bomany Jones calling him Jameis Squintston after watching him try to see the scoreboard at an FSU game and it was caught on camera.
July 13th, 2019 at 2:01 pm
Keep it up boys keep it up. Just know that every idiotic thing you type is going to be remembered and pointed out when you are eventually proven wrong. So keep up your ignorance as it will be remembered.
July 13th, 2019 at 2:17 pm
Why do the sheep want to pay nearly 30 million for the lying qb next year?????? The Bucs could easily draft a rookie QB that could throw as many INT’s, stare down ME13, and make just as many “rookie mistakes” as jmiss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why does joe have to cherry pick barely seen stats to try and prove this fold like a lawn chair qb is “just above average”???????? They might as well be trying to sell snow plows here around Tampa as well!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
#not_my_Quarterback!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2019 will reveal answers to the sheep, that the “real” fans already know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
July 13th, 2019 at 2:22 pm
Question is has Winston shown more than he has year one ? NO ! he has up and downs , consistently inconsistent. Tell he shows development on all areas , SORRY joe he is 25th at best qb in league.
Writing 2 articles a day on JW doesn’t make him a better QB.
July 13th, 2019 at 2:34 pm
Congrats THETRUTH you are now one of the clueless. I am sure they will welcome you with open arms.
July 13th, 2019 at 2:39 pm
If he looked like mike glennon a lot of fans would be just as happy as can be with winston. Beyond mindful so many people thought that guy was a franchise quarterback and even wanted him to get top backup money but didnt realize how dumb the idea was until he went to Chicago. Dude is not the best quarterback in the league not the worst, he’s middle of the pack to be fair but I get it because you dont get picked first overall to be middle of the pack. Better coaching better play it’s that simple really. If you dont like winston it’s going to be rough for you when he signs that contract extension. Accept it already he is the guy says the coach running the team
July 13th, 2019 at 2:47 pm
We ABSOLUTELY need a running game. Keep Winston under 35 att. and we’re good. Ideally 32 imo. Now, with this receiving corps we have…BOOM!
Go BUCS
July 13th, 2019 at 2:50 pm
Jaywill these people on this site don’t know nothing about football. The hate they have for Jamies is real. It doesn’t matter how good he plays they’re always going to hate on him about something. I’ve seen on this site even if he’s doing well in practice they will say it don’t mean nothing it’s just practice but if he’s struggling then they say you see he’s just not good we need to cut him . With this fan base he’s in a lose lose position. So don’t waste your time with these people they don’t know nothing about football they are national media and fantasy football people. Every body know that watch this team who knows about football can see that this hold team suck. Jamies is not the problem it’s the team. Oh and by the way when you bring up stats and Payton, Brady , and Luck is shown they had the same stats are worst they gets mad Brady dink and dunk up the field throwing bubble screens and 2 yards passes . These people hate the truth !!!!! Lol lol ..
July 13th, 2019 at 3:24 pm
WhatdaBucisthis you are 100% right…
A steady dose of the running game and keeping Winston at or around 35 passing attempts per game would be a great starting point offensively…the mystery right now is the offensive line; I’m just hoping a new scheme and swift kick in the rear will be enough to get those guys up-front to play up to their contracts…
July 13th, 2019 at 4:01 pm
All we need is a little luck with injuries and the o-line to produce allowing the running game to take off and we could easily be a top 3 offense if not No.1.
July 13th, 2019 at 4:19 pm
Ah, there is @Onelsbucs again…can’t make an argument to the contrary so all he does is pull out “they hate Winston.” Smdh. Go FSU!!! Go Jameis!
@Raceto10…I don’t know few is any who ever thought Glennon was the future. Greg Schiano did. How’s that working out. Be careful not to twist BA’s statement. Of course Winston is running the offense. Who else right now? If you think BA decides who the QB is going beyond the season, you should again think of Schiano regarding Glennon. Then there’s Lovie. And Dirk. I think you should wait and see, vice declare it as a forgone conclusion. God knows the Bucs haven’t done that. LOL!
@Ndog…the most passionate, blind, Winston lover of them all. Another guy who can’t do anything but call names, threat, etc…Make a point now and then.
July 13th, 2019 at 4:48 pm
One thing is obvious,
When Winston is finally let go:
Most Winston fans are going to be inconsolable…
While parties break out all over Tampa area, Florida and all across the US by Bucs fans!!
July 13th, 2019 at 5:00 pm
Tye and he will go win some where else while we still trying to make the playoffs lol lol lol. Then who will be the next scapegoat ???
July 13th, 2019 at 5:03 pm
He’s not nearly as bad as the haters say he is. Having said that he needs to make better decisions with the ball. Go Bucs!
July 13th, 2019 at 5:36 pm
All the ither 29 teams un the leagur want their qbs to be rogers, brady and brees.
IDIOTS!!!!
July 13th, 2019 at 5:47 pm
Jameis will be judged on wins, stats won’t mean much in the long run.
That said, last year Bucs had Barney Fife driving the Trans Am with Gomer and Goober in the pit.
This year they have Richard Petty as the Bandit with Earnhardt and Johnson in the pit.
July 13th, 2019 at 6:11 pm
Alanbucs Football is a team sport how can you judge him on wins and losses? You see a lot of yall love to use the word sheep but yall believe everything that the national media say . If you can’t run the ball or play defense it doesn’t matter who the quarterback is the team is going to lose. Yall kill me with that post . The Patriots keep a top 5 scoring defense and go look how many times that they give up 30 points in a game and go look how many times we give up 30 or 27 points a game. And you will see a big difference in how they been winning. And not only them but all of the wining teams. And go look how well they run the ball when they run.
July 13th, 2019 at 6:58 pm
99% mental and the rest feetswork. That says it all.
July 13th, 2019 at 6:59 pm
Race to 10 – you hit the nail on the head regarding our fans. There was actually a Mike Glennon mob! Our dumb a$$ fan base was too dumb to see what a stiff he was and wanted him to stay. JW hasn’t been as good as I expected as I was expecting him to be one of the greats from Day 1. He has been decent though. The MG Mob and the Mariota fan boys never wanted JW and will always trash him no matter what he does. Fact is he has been an average QB with an RT and RG, sub par LT, no running game whatsoever, a defense that has coughed up numerous 4th quarter leads the last couple of years, and special teams that was losing games as well. They did the same thing with McCoy for years. He was a good solid player on an awful team and they wanted to run him and blamed him for the losing.
Like it or not, all of these glaring deficiencies are interrelated. Defenses giving up TDs at an alarming rate cause a QB to push the envelope because he knows the only way to win is to outscore your opponent. Same thing is true when you can’t trust your kicker to kick 35-45 yard field goals. Lastly, the lack of a running game makes you predictable and you defense only had to focus on the passing game. You combine all of these things and I can guarantee you that any QB is going to look average at best. JW has put up a lot of numbers in spite of all this. Hopefully he can cut down on the turnovers, but if you think that all of that is on him and simply poor decision making you are dead wrong.
July 13th, 2019 at 7:18 pm
The people for whom Jameis can do no wrong contribute nothing to any discussion about him. The people for whom Jameis can do nothing right also add nothing of worth to the discussion. People who can even half-assed support their pros or cons can help make a fan debate rousing and fun.
_____________
If Winstons fails this year and we are looking for a new QB come next year this FAN will not be jumping for joy. I wanted Glennon, Freeman and every quarterback that I have ever seen start a game for the Buccaneers to win and to become winners. That attitude is not going to change for me until I stop calling myself a Buc fan or I die. Whichever comes first.
________________
Go Bucs!!! Win now!
July 13th, 2019 at 7:52 pm
Senile well said. I agree and it’s the way most Buc fans feel. Unfortunately our voices get muffled from the extremists who have the louder voices. And as with most things in life the truth lies somewhere in the middle of the extremes. Not to one side of the other.
At least when the games start one side will be silenced. Then we will only have to deal with the other side of the fans boasting about how right they were……….Of course we’ll always have the stains like TampaBayBucsFan who will come on here trashing his own fellow fans cause he doesn’t agree with them.
July 13th, 2019 at 7:55 pm
Fitzpatrick is not a Buc and he sucked! Fitz and MeJax gone is addition by subtraction.
July 13th, 2019 at 8:15 pm
Senile senior
Kudos
July 13th, 2019 at 8:20 pm
Bucs Rushing TD’s by year including QB’s.
2018: 11
2017: 8
2016: 8
2015: 12
league leaders…….
2018: 26 NO, 23 Rams
2017: 23 NO
2016: 29 Buf, 24 Dal
2015: 19. Buf, Car, KC
2016-2018 shows just how bad the Bucs rushing was and everything was on Winston.
P.S. The teams that played the Bucs knew it was all on Winston.
July 13th, 2019 at 8:36 pm
Aaron Rodgers had the lowest INT percentage in the league last year and won 5 games.
If ints are directly tied to winning games shouldn’t he have won 14+?
Do you know who has the second lowest INT percentage for their career in the nfl? Colin Kapernick.
The top 10 QBs with lowest ints percentages for their careers include winners like Derek Carr, Alex Smith, Sam Bradford and Neil O’Donnel.
The other 50% like Rodgers, Brady, Russell Wilson, Nick Foles have all had a running game and great defenses to lean on if not carry them completely, but hey wtfdik
July 13th, 2019 at 8:49 pm
^^^*
Check out article on FanDuel (October 2018)
Thru first 48 games (3 full seasons )two comparisons below :
Jameis Winston had 19 wins
Josh Freeman had 21 wins.
Pretty sure freeman had same crappy coaches / questionable Oline / inconsistent running game and crappy defense.
You could argue that Jameis receivers and tight ends all around are 10 times better then Winston.
No question the defense and special teams and oline and lack of running game have contributed to bucs QBs losses over the years. However , it’s Not just these last 4 with Jameis.
Yet , Jameis gets the excuse. You are not allowed to criticize him. Freeman got trashed. People still laugh at the freeman years. And Freeman’s work ethic was crap and he partied on Saturday nights before a game (smoking drinking and putting junk up his nose ).
With that said , I think we have a legitimate coach for first time since Gruden. He will get the best out of Jameis. Can’t wait to see what that looks like cause Bucs have a big decision next year as the Jameis price tag starts at 30-35 mil
July 13th, 2019 at 9:05 pm
Bird
You might want to go back and look at those rosters again. Freeman had Blount, Zuttah, Penn, Joseph, Bennett, Talib, Barber, Connor Barth. Not to mention the last coach to win 10 games in TB, Raheem The Dream Morris.
Not for nothing but Winslow Jr and Stevens were absolute beasts but wtfdik
July 13th, 2019 at 9:13 pm
A big part of why fans have been critical of our QB is because the team was built to win with offense. The way they were built it was expected that we could win some shootout type games from time to time. But that has not been the case.
The 2017 season really showcased this as we just completed a whole “Weapons for Winston” campaign. Then on most Sundays our offense came up dry and did absolutely nothing for entire halfs of football putting us in big holes. The offense underperformed expectations.
Then this year they flip the script and came up dry in a few 2nd halves. It’s been a very inconsistent effort from the offense and anybody saying otherwise is kidding themselves. Forget the stats and team records. How about consistent efforts?
Yes give Winston a running game and defense but if they are gonna still go entire halfs at a time without putting up points we are gonna have a rough time Winning. Gotta be 60 mins.
July 13th, 2019 at 9:20 pm
DB55 Says:
“The top 10 QBs with lowest ints percentages for their careers include winners like [Colin Kapernick,] Derek Carr, Alex Smith, Sam Bradford and Neil O’Donnel.
.
.
Things that make you say, “Hmmm.”
July 13th, 2019 at 9:36 pm
Db55
You went there . Raheem Morris was a great coach. Lol.
I can’t stop laughing. Thanks man.
You prove my point man. Always an excuse for one certain player. Always an excuse bwtfdik. Nole connection obvious.
There is a comparable player on your list with any recent player on Bucs that played with Jameis.
Give me a break dude.
And Jeremy Stevens and Zuttah are two studs ? Man you are really digging deep in the toilet bowl.
And you listed a kicker to try a prove a point. 😂
July 13th, 2019 at 9:53 pm
Bird
Reading comprehension. Where did I say Raheem was “great”? Merely that he was the last coach to win 10 games. (And that is saying a ton.) I keep talking about how poor the fl public education system is and you guys keep providing great examples.
Steves had great hands and at 6’7″ 260 was a match-up nightmare. And I rather have Zuttah than Benonch any day. Wtf are you talking about Bird?
So which CB is comparable to Barber? Which DE is comparable to Bennett? Who is our Talib and Blount on our current roster? Please enlighten me Bird. Talk about LOL.
Unconscious incompetence the whole lot of you.
July 13th, 2019 at 9:54 pm
The great thing is this debate will not be settled on a chatroom. It will be settled on the field and should be this year.
Bruce will get this team playing solid football around his QB. We won’t be last place in essential phases of the game like passing D or rushing. And our special teams will be solid.
We won’t see players running into each other or having brainfart presnap pentalties or just flat out forget what their job is on the field. We will play solid football. Winston will have a chance to get this team playing competitive football this year. If he aren’t good enough we’ll all know it and his coach will too.
My 💰 on Winston. 11-5
GO BUCS!!!
July 13th, 2019 at 10:06 pm
A big part of why fans have been critical of our QB is because the team was built to win with offense.
—————-
Yet another example of the incompetence of the Bucs and most of their fans.
Peyton Manning arguably the best pure offense QB leader of our time won 2 Super Bowls in 17 years in the league. His first came when he hired a defensive coach to help him out. And as for his second, you can literally give that one to the defense 100%.
Meanwhile Tom Brady has won 6 SB in the same timeframe with hands down the greatest defensive coach of all time. Hmmm!
Let me say it one more time for the “real fans” in the back: DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS!!!!!!!!!!
Look man, I get that many of you “real fans” are from Pinellas, Polk and Pasco county so I don’t expect you to understand what I’m saying to you but try to follow me best you can.
DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS!!!
July 13th, 2019 at 10:11 pm
We won’t see players running into each other or having brainfart presnap pentalties or just flat out forget what their job is on the field.
———————
We won’t? Bc last I checked we plan to start 4 or 5 rookies on defense AND it’s the first year of a new system so there will unquestionably be mistakes made.
Shiiii from the very little film I’ve seen on Dean he looked lost in his college scheme as a senior.
Smh! You people have zero clue and it’s very frustrating.
July 13th, 2019 at 10:20 pm
I don’t know about one of the worse. More like middle of the pack. But DEFINITELY not one of the best. Not even top 10
July 13th, 2019 at 10:21 pm
Ok I have zero clue and you are the one saying the plan is to start at least 4 rookies. So please enlighten me which 4 rookies will be starting game 1 for us…….And I threw in game one so you can bet me on it if you like.
While your at it please explain how we weren’t built to win with offense last few years. 14 and 15 drafts nearly fully dedicated to offense…….and I’m certain that the weapons for Winston campaign was not something I just came up with just now……..BTW Brady and Manning are cometely irrevelant to the subject so try harder & nobody said defense don’t win championships……that’s just you acting as a fool.
July 13th, 2019 at 10:22 pm
Db55
-Dude. No one replaces Barber . But what was he in his 15th year with freeman. Gimme a break. Not a talking point.
-Talib I will give you credit but grimes wasn’t far off his 1st year with Bucs. 2nd year good. 3rd year a disaster.
-Why bring up Benenoch. No one thinks he is good. I’ll take Marpet and mankins over Zuttah.
-You listed Connor Barth a kicker 😂. He played with Jameis too.
-Blount had one good year with Bucs rushing for what 1,007 yards-6tds. Doug Martin ran for 1,400 6tds.
– Michael Bennett had 1 year with 9 sacks. Other years with Bucs he had 1, 2 and 4. And he blew up after he left Bucs so you have to compare when actually here.
– Jeremy Stevens was a mismatch? What about OJ Howard. Jeremy couldn’t hold OJ’s jock.
– and you were listing the prior teams strengths so why are you now not implying that Raheem was a good coach.
——/—
Freeman’s receivers worth a dang including tight end – vjax and crazy man kellen
Jameis – Mike Evans who will have every buc record probably next year and he has 5 good years left . Cam Brate . OJ . DJax . Hump. Chris Godwin . Vincent Jackson (Same). Not even close.
Don’t be mad bro. Thanks for commenting on reading comprehension I love people who think they are smarter then others bwtfdik
July 13th, 2019 at 10:24 pm
^^^
Jpp for Michael Bennett comparison
July 13th, 2019 at 10:24 pm
It seems like fans expected instantaneous Super Bowls because we had the number one draft pick and drafted a QB. We had the number one pick for a reason!! This team is still not complete but at least we can say we have a good QB, not every team can say that.
Just because he was a first overall pick doesn’t mean he has to be the number one QB in the league. That is an impossible standard and the “best QB” changes each year. Jameis was the right pick and is the right QB for this team. We have endured the immaturity and growing pains so let’s reap the rewards!!!
QBs aren’t like RBs, they don’t come in on fire and slow down. QBs just get better with age as they gain experience and mature. Jameis is no different, his time is coming and how freaking Bucs would it be to dump him just before it clicks for him.
July 13th, 2019 at 10:33 pm
Jamies has his flaws but I dont believe he’s the biggest reason we lose. The defense is ass every year and he’s only had a running game one year. Take out Jamies’s turnovers.. and leave the defense and run game the same we still lose a ton of games. With the turnovers and average run game and defense I think we win alot more games.. maybe even a few playoff appearances in the last few years.
July 13th, 2019 at 10:36 pm
IDK about the worse. But DEFINATELY not the best. Not even top 10. More like in themiddle
July 13th, 2019 at 10:42 pm
Bird or should I call you Michael Jackson? That was one hellava moonwalk.
You went from There is a comparable player on your list with any recent player on Bucs to well uhm ahh what had happened was …not a talking point. Lol. Grimes was on par with Talib every third moon during high tide on a Wednesday if he ate breakfast at the bob evans YEEHAW
lol okay if you say so
Blount had one good year with Bucs rushing for what 1,007 yards-6tds. — so who was our 1k yard rusher last year? Lol. Moving the goal posts I see. That’s kewl brah.
Benonch is relevant bc he contributes to most of the turnovers with his piss poor blocking or should I say whiffing
July 13th, 2019 at 10:52 pm
So please enlighten me which 4 rookies
——-
White, Bunting, Edwards and Gay. Maybe even Dean and Nelson if JPP doesn’t return. Come on Jack you should know this. So that’s 6 rookies potentially contributing significant time on the field.
While your at it please explain how we weren’t built to win with offense last few years.
————
Last two years has been def focus draft with 2016 basically 50/50. But the take away is that the focus should be on building a great defense therefore hiring mike Smith as a dc shouldn’t even be a consideration. This might be over your head Jack, I’m sorry carry on…
July 13th, 2019 at 11:07 pm
Damn, DB, that chits chilly
July 13th, 2019 at 11:09 pm
db55
Uh ah yah. I gave you Talib.
Cool homie. Why you mad bro.
Yah Benenoch wAs no different then trueblood for freeman with his mistAkes
Calling people clueless . That pretty amazing when you are trying to make an Argument that Freeman’s Bucs were more talented then Jameis Bucs.
21 wins vs
19 wins
Both teams equally sucked all around. And helped Bucs to lose. Freeman don’t get a pass though ? Right ? We know Jameis does with you. He always does.
Be cool though man. Word.
July 13th, 2019 at 11:18 pm
DB55 that’s incredibly lame that you consider Gay a starter based on the subject at hand. Please feel free to remind me how many assignments he misses and how many presnap pentalties he has. Them other guys(Bunting, Edwards) aren’t projected to be starters but I’ll give you the benefit of having a chance to win the job in camp.
As far as being built offensively I was obvisously talking about our prior teams(comprehension?). This year’s draft, and last year’s somewhat, have nothing to do with my point……..Just like you did with Brady and Manning your points are irrevelant.
The fact is we were built to be an offensive juggernaut & that didn’t really happen.
July 13th, 2019 at 11:24 pm
Bird
You only trying to convince yourself that Bennett, Talib and Barber are equivalent to Nassib, Ryan Smith and Brent Grimes. LMAO.
Blount for Barber. My dude is you even serious rn?
Trueblood, Zuttah, Larsen, Penn, Dotson for Dotson (with no knees), Caleb, Smith, Marpet and Smith. I’d take marpet for Larsen I guess 🤷🏽♂️
And you still don’t have 1 Coach not Lovie, Koetter that could win 10 games. #Youngry
You just made that you argument got suplexed. Thank you come again.
Let me fresh ya’ll memory. #Clueless
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FkT3pv9zZGI
July 13th, 2019 at 11:32 pm
Jimmy
If you’re built to be an offensive juggernaut then I suggest you start with an oline. You’re still not understanding but it’s okay.
You’re right, the offense hasn’t performed to expectations therefore haven’t been able to produce the wins that fans are expecting.
Lmao, they really are dumber than a bag of rocks aren’t they?
DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS
YOU COOULD HAVE TRENT DILFER AS YOUR F’n QUARTERBACK AND STILL WIN A SUPERBOWL
YOU COULD HAVE REX GROSSMAN AS YOUR QUATERBACK and still get to a Super Bowl
July 13th, 2019 at 11:33 pm
Alright I’m done I’m going to go binge all the Bucs winning seasons on Hulu now. You guys have a good night.
July 13th, 2019 at 11:40 pm
Alright I’m back that didn’t take long at all
July 13th, 2019 at 11:52 pm
DB55…….Don’t pretend like they try to build a OL…..I seem to remember drafting a LT right after Winston. Then trading up and drafting a G……I seem to remember making a trade to the Patriots for another G …….How about spending huge money on Sweezy and Jensen.
So yeah they did make enty of investments in the OL while building the offense. Not saying theyade the right moves but am saying how the heck don’t you know this? Do you even follow the Bucs.
Also, for the 2nd time, nobody’s saying defense don’t win championships. Not defending the way they built the team but it was with an emphasis on offense. Facts are facts & how do you freaking not know this?
July 14th, 2019 at 1:46 am
@JayWill: your first post summed it p succinctly!! Well done sir!!!
THAT is what these imbeciles and racists on THIS cite conveniently ignore and overlook. It will be brought to LIGHT and forefront this year tho (his FIRST w competent coaching AND a DEFENSE)
11-5 on da way
Go Bucs!!!
July 14th, 2019 at 2:36 am
DB55 Says:
“Alright I’m back that didn’t take long at all.”
.
.
LOL
July 14th, 2019 at 6:17 am
^^^^^^^
Look at this stupid ignorant moron.
You’re a racist if you don’t suck Winston’s balls all day.
Dumbas s FSU fans.
If he went to UF you idiots would be completely different with your opinions.
Just stfu. Your mother should’ve swallowed you
July 14th, 2019 at 7:15 am
Yup, throw out the race card when you can’t argue a point on it’s merit.
July 14th, 2019 at 7:31 am
@DB55
The Bucs have the second most expensive O-line this year!!!!!! Missed out on the most expensive by about $850,000!!!!!!!!!! The Bucs have built around jw3 for 5 years!!!!!!! It did not work!!!!!!! Next year the franchise tag is around alomost 30 million!!!!!!!!!!! The Bucs can easily find a rookie to throw int’s, and stare down ME13, and make rookie mistakes!!!!!!!!!! And that is not even to talk about all the off the field problems, suspensions, and proving not to be the guy the media sold the fan base on!!!!!! There have been no less than three incidents where jw3 camp was trashing/lying about someone to make jw3 look good!!!!!!!!!!! jw3 has been exposed!!!!!!!!!! take your prejudice opinions away and take a “real” look of what is going on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
#not_my_quarterback!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2019 will reveal answers to the sheep, that the “real” fans already know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
July 14th, 2019 at 8:36 am
In support of Jaywill , I think Luck and Manning absorbed as many pressures and hits as Winston but Brady I would say way way less . QBs on losing teams , with poor lines and no running game will take more hits and have more turnovers if they are gamers !! Simple as that !!
Brady May lead the NFL in games not being knocked down once !! Also believe what is recorded as a pressure on ego Tom is not considered a pressure foer Winston or Elyb and Luck !!!
July 14th, 2019 at 10:33 am
The fans that throw out name calling and insults, unwarranted, bc of the criticism to one’s play on the field is despicable.
When a “fan” claims insults and personal attacks it becomes s shameful. Come on!
It’s all about the production on the field.
July 14th, 2019 at 7:55 pm
Aaron Rodgers had the lowest INT percentage in the league last year and won 5 games.
If ints are directly tied to winning games shouldn’t he have won 14+?
Do you know who has the second lowest INT percentage for their career in the nfl? Colin Kapernick.
The top 10 QBs with lowest ints percentages for their careers include winners like Derek Carr, Alex Smith, Sam Bradford and Neil O’Donnel.
The other 50% like Rodgers, Brady, Russell Wilson, Nick Foles have all had a running game and great defenses to lean on if not carry them completely, but hey wtfdik
July 14th, 2019 at 10:06 pm
Check our this stat: he sucks at playing football on all days that end in DAY