Two Issues Hurting Jameis
June 29th, 2019
Fixing fundamentals.
Sometimes, things buried pop up at the oddest times.
Joe was reading a preview of the 2019 season typed by Frank Schwab of Yahoo! Sports. Naturally, a good chunk of it is about America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston.
Schwab wrote about the good and bad of Jameis. The good is “intoxicating,” he says, the bad may be the worst NFL football you will ever see.
Schwab documented each of Jameis’ four-picks that got him benched at Cincinnati by a panicked coach desperate to stay employed. See if you catch a couple of trends in three of the picks?
• On a second-and-7 in the red zone, Winston ignored a wide-open underneath receiver, instead locking in on Mike Evans and throwing well over his head into the end zone, where safety Shawn Williams picked it off. It was a reckless decision with terrible accuracy.
• Late in the second quarter, with the Buccaneers in field-goal range, Winston was pressured, panicked and threw wildly to the middle of the field. He never saw linebacker Preston Brown underneath. Veteran quarterbacks shouldn’t make that type of undefined throw to the middle of the field, especially when a turnover takes potential points off the board.
• Winston had a wide-open Cameron Brate over the middle, but when he noticed the rush coming up the middle he shuffled his feet instead of stepping into his throw. His pass sailed a couple feet over Brate’s head and to safety Jordan Evans. A fundamental error.
Two things caught Joe’s eye here. One was Jameis threw two picks, in part, due to a pass rush. The second is fundamentals.
There is nothing a quarterback can do about a pass rush short of throwing the ball away, something we have come to know just isn’t in Jameis’ DNA and is unlikely ever to be coached out of the guy no matter how much he says he understands and how often coaches harp on this. That’s just who Jameis is.
The big thing is the lousy fundamentals, a pebble in Joe’s shoe for the longest time.
Joe likes former Bucs quarterback coach Mike Bajakian. However, Joe always thought his coaching resume was thin as hell. Before coming to Tampa, the only quarterback he coached that ever did anything was Dan LeFevour. That’s not much to hang your hat on.
This month, Albert Breer interviewed Bucs quarterback coach Clyde Christensen who stated they have been drilling Jameis hard on fundamentals.
If Bajakian was doing his job, then why did Jameis have his fundamentals all out of whack? Or did Jameis’ suspension and three weeks away from One Buc Palace over the Uber hassle screw Jameis up that badly?
Joe does remember Jameis worked with his personal quarterback coach, George Whitfield, while serving his suspension. Joe knows of top offensive football coaches who don’t think much of Whitfield. Did he get Jameis’ fundamentals out of whack?
Well, we all know if Jameis doesn’t get his fundamentals straightened out in the next couple of months, it may be his last chance in Tampa Bay. Joe’s confident Bucco Bruce Arians and his gang get Jameis on the right track.
June 29th, 2019 at 12:38 am
Wonder if anyone’s ever recommended Tom House instead of George Whitfield, one would think he could help being a former pitcher himself.
June 29th, 2019 at 1:02 am
Great find here Joe. To be honest, your article is kinda garbage and focuses only the Winston aspect and seemed to pick only the “click worthy” quotes. Joe will cut your hate off there. … In case you haven’t noticed, Joe doesn’t write about all kinds of subjects in just one post. Here, Joe focused on the franchise quarterback. As for “click-worthy” quotes, these quotes are only seen on JoeBucsFan.com after one has already “clicked.” So what you’re saying makes little sense. –Joe
June 29th, 2019 at 3:00 am
Well its easy to pick on the Cincy game, even the apologists see that as a disaster but Jameis’s interceptions aren’t just a one game affair.
So terrible accuracy because of pass rush and fundamentals. Bad fundamentals because of a single QB coach or 3 weeks off because of the Uber hassle forcing him to be with another QB coach?
Has Jameis, ever since the fabled Pitt game, ever had good fundamentals?
Now it’s BA and his Golf Cart to the rescue?
We shall see. Can a leopard change it’s spots or at least be coached to hide it’s spots?
The “Best” QB in Buccaneers history is not even on track to make the Ring of Honor at Ray Jay
June 29th, 2019 at 3:55 am
@Joe … “Two things caught Joe’s eye here. One was Jameis threw two picks, in part, due to a pass rush. The second is fundamentals”. Seriously Joe? THOSE are your 2 takeaways from what Schwab documented? As if no NFL QB has ever had to deal with a pass rush before? Or no NFL QB has ever had to throw without being able to step into the throw before? Pleez … IMO your 2 takeaways are nothing more than EXCUSES.
The REASON for all 3 of those INTs was poor DISCIPLINE on Jameis’ part. He had receivers WIDE OPEN on 2 of those 3 throws … his receivers did their job, but Jameis didn’t do his. In one case he threw into traffic to ME13 instead of finding the wide-open receiver. That’s poor DISCIPLINE in not going through his progressions & staring down a favorite receiver. In another instance he PANICs & throws wildly into the middle of the field instead of throwing the ball away like he should have. That’s poor DISCIPLINE also. The third case, missing a wide-open Cam Brate, sounds like another panic situation to me because “he noticed the rush coming up the middle”. More poor DISCIPLINE on Jameis’ part.
Jameis has been throwing to one of the best … if not THE BEST … receiving corps in the Conference. His overall pass protection has been at least average. With beasts like Mike Evans, OJ, Cam Brate, Chris Godwin, and in the past Adam Humphries to throw to, he danged well should be up near the top of the NFL in passing yardage. He’s got FOUR years of NFL experience under his belt. He’s got no one but himself to blame for his POOR DISCIPLINE … not Dirk Koetter, not Mike Bajakian, or George Whitfield. If he can’t improve substantially this year, he needs to be gone. He’s getting paid BIG BUCKS to do a job. Just DO YOUR JOB Jameis. Enough with the EXCUSES.
June 29th, 2019 at 5:46 am
Sure, there are some problems here and there with Jameis’ fundamentals……but the two biggest problems for Jameis is the lack of a running game and a horrible defense.
I have noticed that Jameis is almost always high with his passes….never fails to get the ball there and rarely low……too high will get you in trouble every time with tipped balls and overthrows usually find a defender instead of a WR.
June 29th, 2019 at 5:46 am
Cue NDOG in 3..2…1… to tell us Schwab is an idiot and doesn’t know anything about football and shouldn’t be allowed to talk about the messiah in such a manner.
Then he will tell us how wrong Schwab is and blame all those picks on literally anything and everything to absolve the “great one” of any wrongdoing.
It was the fault of the defense. The sun was in his eyes. It was cloudy. It was rainy. It was too dry. It was in no way shape or form Winston’s fault and Winston has never thrown a pick that was his fault.
Oh and then Ndog will throw out a bunch of stupid useless stats to tell us Winston does not have accuracy issues at all and compare him to Manning and Favre and all the other HOF QB’s.
But the main point he will make is: Its not Winston’s fault.
June 29th, 2019 at 6:20 am
What scares me the most in a contract year is that he may turn the interceptions and reckless decisions down. But once he gets that extension, he can easily fall back to this. I love Winston and want him toward our team to a ring. I fear his “heroics” trait as well. His will to win can’t be turned down by coaching. It’s within him.
June 29th, 2019 at 6:52 am
Yeah it’s definitely slow, let’s breakdown the worst game of the kids career…I’m sure no other QB in the history of the NFL has had a 4 int game…
And for the record, Im no Jameis apologist, I just understand football…if you put a young 21 year old gunslinger on a bad team he’s most likely gonna throw picks…duh….it’s funny how none of his critics ever talk about all of the TDs though, but whatever it is what it is…
June 29th, 2019 at 7:34 am
Every young quarterbacks have terrible games but last year was brutal, especially since it was his forth year. If his offseason wasn’t so embarrassing, he might of pulled off a great season. Hopefully Arian can instill confidence in him this year. He has all the tools to be great – just needs a system that he can flourish in.
June 29th, 2019 at 7:38 am
Hahahaha….”franchise QB”. Just maybe in the CFL. Let it go Joe, it will be okay. The sun will still rise in the morning and set in the evening.
June 29th, 2019 at 7:42 am
Buc55 you are right bro. The kid is on a bad team and no one seems to notice that. The national media have always hated Jamies. I watch a lot of football. I live in Houston so for me to watch my bucs I got the NFL ticket. And when I watch other games after the bucs I see how all the winning teams win they play good or decent defense. They run more of a balance offense. I see how Brady throw screens and short passes all most the hold first half. Brady throw more 5 to 8 yards passes most of the games in his career other than the Moss years. Brady plays are more catch in run easy throws dunk and dunk then he will throw deep about 8 or maybe 9 times up the field and they run the ball. All we do is tell Winston to throw the ball 45 times and all the throws are 10 yards are deep down the field and yall espect him not to throw picks and not to minchin he has no running game but he should be a top 10 quarterback right now. Jamies is the only quarterback in the NFL that have to win with no defense and running game to the national media and yall people that don’t know football or just hate him. On that podcast last week was a prim example. For Brees team losing it was because of his bad defense and how he didn’t have a running game and soon as Karmar came the saints started winning because of the running game now Jamies has the same problem but he is the reason why the bucs lose and the only reason why we lose.
June 29th, 2019 at 7:47 am
Pitts yeah but how many 4 interceptions games that Andrew Luck have had his first 4 years or Payton have had ??? From my understanding I think that was Jamies first time throwing 4 interceptions.
June 29th, 2019 at 7:51 am
Throwing an accurate pass from the pocket is something all great QB’s do as second nature. Jameis has picked up some bad habits in his fundamentals and they won’t be easy to correct ,because he has been doing this throughout his career. When he is under pressure he may still revert to old habits. Agree with Joe
on both coaching fronts.
At the end of the day its up to jameis, to fix his fundamentals to extend his career and let the coaches fix the running game and defense. They seem to be on the right track recognizing the problem with both Jameis ‘s fundamentals
and the defense and making moves to correct them.
June 29th, 2019 at 8:13 am
I really think whitfield hurts jameis & that whitfield teaches things the bucs dont. Again last year jameis had a couple “coaches” in his head. The bucs as a team are not good and jameis lost 2 of his best WRs, so not sure how the WRs he has this year will help
June 29th, 2019 at 8:17 am
A good read, though I think the focus is too narrow by Schwab. Some things Joe said that catch attention:
“There is nothing a quarterback can do about a pass rush short of throwing the ball away, something we have come to know just isn’t in Jameis’ DNA and is unlikely ever to be coached out of the guy no matter how much he says he understands and how often coaches harp on this. That’s just who Jameis is.”
One can try telling any boss when he’s not getting the job done due to consistent same/similar mistakes, “That’s just who I am.” And when hurting the organization, the boss isn’t going to say “That’s just who he is.” If this is who Jameis is, and we can’t expect better, then he needs to go. I don’t think it can be coached out, which is one reason I take my position it’s time to move on (the other has been he’s bad for business in a small market). All know that taking care of the football is a primal rule. We can plug this issue in anywhere but I put it under his overarching problem of bad “decision making.” Yes, the O lne doesn’t protect like they must (and pretty much all are screaming to address that problem), but we should not be telling ourselves “Well, that is just who they are.” Fix ’em or get rid of them too. But no matter who else isn’t doing their job, when Winston has the ball in his hands, he’s got to take care of it.
“The big thing is the lousy fundamentals, a pebble in Joe’s shoe for the longest time.”
Agree. These are the things that might be able to be coached up. My concern on this is if Winston will do what he’s coached to do, told to do, or if he will just do what he wants/revert to bad habit when it comes down to it. Joe very interesting point about Winston’s private QB coach and possible countering to what the Bucs QB coach was coaching him to do. But we saw problems with fundamentals before all that too.
Winston deserved to be benched in the CIN game, and if I remember, that was after he ignored the play sent in during the CLE game week before where they could easily have blown the game based on what he tried to do. Unaccetable at any time for a player to ignore the HC. Instant poison for good order. Winston isn’t (surely wasn’t then) Tom Brady or any mature player who can see his mistake and pick it up next game–so he needed to ride the bench a bit. However, Winston deserved the knod after Fitz stunk it up again, though I would have played Griffin a few games to see what he could do regarding options going into ’19. Of course, Koetter was trying to save his job and that would be a new coach’s problem. And it was. In both cases, Koetter put in the QB who gave him the best chance to win.
I totally agree Winston wants desparately to be the man, to win for his team. But all the want to, all the effort in the world means nothing in the NFL without results. And I don’t think he has the basics him. Add the other stuff, and he’s not worth it. Move on.
June 29th, 2019 at 8:33 am
I just love how people go to his worst career game and use that as gospel as to who he is. That game he clearly sucked after the second drive I could tell he was seeing ghosts and had no confidence. I believe that stemmed from the suspension and ridiculous way Koetter handled the entire situation, so it was an all around effort in messing up his head, Jameis, Koetter, Licht and Monken were all to blame. But back to the point, if you go to any players worst game and use that as “the standard” then of course they are going to look horrible. It’s just lazy reporting and the second they wouldn’t commit to Jameis being the unquestioned starter upon his return I knew it would not go well, and posted as much on this site multiple times. Again everyone played a role in that but if that was not clear then you weren’t watching as that was handled about as poorly as you can imagine. In fact I would say Jameis’s biggest flaw is not his accuracy, his footwork or his aggressiveness but his desire to be liked and make people happy. He worries too much about getting DJax the ball or hitting a bomb early like Fitzpatrick or showing people he’s a leader with a speech. So couple that with Koetter handling the situation last year like he did you then have a TEMPORARILY broken QB that resulted in the Cincy game. If you watch the games and get to understand the players this is clear to see, but Koetter clearly sucked at his job so he was blind as a bat to the fact that he was destroying his only chance for long term success here.
June 29th, 2019 at 8:39 am
You say Koetter handled winston’s suspension “ridiculously”?
Lmao- Jameis is the one who screwed up, violated a woman AND lied to his team about it.
All Fitzpatrick did was light it up early and often, winning back to back NFC Offensive player of the week awards.
Here is a simple fact: Koetter didn’t get suspended, and Koetter didn’t lie to his team. If Jameis doesn’t screw up, then none of that plays out. Nobody to blame but himself.
You blaming Koetter for the handling of the suspension is ludicrous and just screams Bias to another level!
June 29th, 2019 at 8:41 am
Ndog,
So, when Koetter ran a play, and Jameis went rogue, playing hero-ball (Turnover laden), that’s on Koetter too?
It goes both ways. Koetter got fired and Jameis stayed, now there is no excuses for Jameis. Or Licht for that matter.
June 29th, 2019 at 8:51 am
I keep hearing you post this rouge stuff but have no idea what your talking about (proof please), plus most real coaches do allow the QBs to change plays. Just so you can understand I’m talking about that called an audible ok… Do you understand, or is just too much for you to take in…?
June 29th, 2019 at 8:58 am
Hey SteveK in case you didn’t notice in life things happen, it’s how you deal with them that tells the tale. So if you think Koetter handled it well then why did he get fired, why did we go 5-11, why did not get scooped up as a head coach ASAP? You say Jameis caused this, maybe he did or maybe he didn’t (again there was zero proof) but as the HEAD COACH it was Koetters job to get his team in the best position to win and if you think that undermining your most talented QB for a career journey man and a diva WR well then that is exactly what I expect from you. Results are facts sir so it looks like you were wrong AGAIN pretty much like everything you post WRONG WRONG WRONG. Doesn’t it get old being wrong so often?
June 29th, 2019 at 9:00 am
Calling an audible (if permitted) when seeing how the other team lines up, or going to various options as the play unfolds, or when it falls apart, trying to extend the play (sometimes good, sometimes awful) is a lot different than ignoring the play that was sent in when the team is in the huddle. Koetter is the one who said the CLE game play run was not the play sent in when asked by the media “Why (would you freakin do that)?” Most HCs would not call out the QB for stuff that can be handled outside the spotlight, but most HCs also don’t have to deal with the shenanigans Winston had pulled, and who knows how often Winston did this stuff? Koetter is gone. Licht should be. And Winston will be if he keeps this stuff up. Remember, right now he’s done here at the end of the season, and he’s already screwed the Glazers royally.
June 29th, 2019 at 9:13 am
Jameis has gone rogue many times and thats just a big FU to Koetter and at FSU to Jimbo. The last known time was game 17 he scored a TD on last play in game the bucs won but costs the bucs quentin nelson.
June 29th, 2019 at 9:19 am
@Ndog…what do you think? Let’s say the Bucs go 5-11, Winston has a 90 Rtg, completes 65% of his passes, and his INTs are 3/4 of the number of TD passes, he throws for say 3500-4100 yards, offense is in Top 15 overall and Top 5 in passing, the Bucs indicators are that ticket buying fans frustration are (still) in part due to Winston character issues, overall attendance is still near the bottom on the NFL, and over the season, and the D is much improved (ranked say #20 overall), Bucs score 24 pts/gm. The same problems with Winston turnovers (due to bad decision making…forcing the ball) and fundamentals are there. Bucs have 3rd overall pick in the ’20 draft. Do you sign Winston pp for a multi-year contract (say 5/yrs, $120M) with a lot of guaranteed money?
June 29th, 2019 at 9:22 am
See no one said he didn’t run the play, Koetter said the play I called was run. That could have been miscommucation or a number of things. Point blank he flatly did not Jameis did not run the play. Now did he maybe but only a handful of people know for sure and we aren’t any of them. In regards to the last play vs the Saints he saw a one on one matchup that he thought he could win. If your QB is not allowed to do that then just send out a robot cause what’s the point of having someone to read situations and matchups.
It doesn’t really matter you don’t like him and refuse to see the truth which is he is the least of this teams issues but you buy into the national media who would rather talk about Jameis (cause people know who he is) rather than a horrible defense, running game or a horrible kicker as the reasons we sucked.
June 29th, 2019 at 9:24 am
@Ndog:
“Handled his suspension ridiculously”
———————————————————————————-
As noted by SteveK above, Koetter had no choice but to play Fitzpatrick while Jameis was suspended. All he did was WIN 2 games against the reigning division champs and the reigning Super Bowl champs, all while having the two best back to back games in the history of the NFL. So, to assuage Jameis’ fragile ego, Koetter was supposed to just pat Fitz on the head and hand him his consolation prize, and return Jameis to the starter’s job?
Every player WANTS TO PLAY. Every player WANTS TO WIN. DJax was leading the league in receptions and yards those first few weeks. Why wouldn’t he want that to continue?
Everyone knows that Fitzpatrick is just a journeyman, and not a “franchise QB”, but his per game stats are BETTER the JW3’s in every category except INT% last year.
Over the last two years, the Bucs are 6-16 when Jameis starts, and his few wins are typically against POOR teams (SF, NYG for example).
Over the last two years, the Bucs were 4 – 6, when Fitz started with wins against NO and PHA.
All with the SAME running game, OL, kickers and defense.
tickrdr
June 29th, 2019 at 9:31 am
@Ndog…I was appalled for two reasons (one for Jameis not doing what he was told, and two that Koetter put that out there publicly in a post-game presser when asked what happened). I pretty remember Koetter pausing and answering that WTF question of “why” from the media with (or something very close), “The play run was not the play we sent in” or that “was not the play we sent in.” I defer to Joe’s record/facts on that one. Yes, same thing with NO game we are told, as Dusty points out…and that happened to be a TD. Successful or not, if indeed Winston is ignoring the call from the sidelines he has a big problem. I remember he also dressed out to play t FSU when specifically told he was suspended too. A problem here?
June 29th, 2019 at 9:32 am
@tickrdr…Excellent way of putting it.
June 29th, 2019 at 9:51 am
Technique is something QBs work on their entire careers… That said, things happen frequently throughout the course of a game that makes all the technical mumbo jumbo go out the window…
Heck it seems like 90% of the time Jameis barely gets to 2 Mississippi before he has to bail out of the pocket and try to make something out nothing…
Alot of you guys posting won’t even give the kid any credit for his ability to make a play when the play breaks down; there’s not many QBs in this league better than Jameis when it comes to making plays with his arm outside of the pocket…
I’ll never co-sign the turnovers especially the boneheaded ones…but those kind of turnovers happen to the best of them (see: Phillip Rivers, Rothlisberger, Luck, Ryan, Marino, Favre, etc)
My point is most are so busy nitpicking this kid to death that the good gets overlooked…
Personally, I think it’s kind of hard to properly evaluate him when he has to play Superman every week to keep pace with the opposition cause the defense is so bad…
Ironically his highest win total in a season came in the only year our defense managed to finish in the top 15… Despite all the technique issues and blah blah blah if we balance the offense a bit, play better defense, and make a few more fieldgoals, we can win alot of games with Jameis Imho…
June 29th, 2019 at 9:52 am
Eloquently put, tickrdr! Thanks!
June 29th, 2019 at 9:54 am
The 2 things I noticed were the redzone INT’s, gotta protect the ball in the money zone.
June 29th, 2019 at 9:56 am
Ndog,
The point is that Jameis is a grown up and should not be getting suspended. Koetter had enough to worry about with trying to win a game, not pandering to a weak minded QB who lies and gets suspended for unnecessary jack-assery.
So please stop blaming Koetter for Jameis misbehaving, lying about it, and then letting it effect his play when he came back. He screwed our season.
June 29th, 2019 at 9:57 am
Put more points on the board. Don’t turn it over in the Red zone and we may win more games. Works both ways.
June 29th, 2019 at 10:03 am
Joe … 5 hours ‘Awaiting Moderation’ isn’t a new record, but it sure does render those comments ‘Meaningless’. Just a thought …
June 29th, 2019 at 10:04 am
Ndog you do more harm then good for Winston. Your excuses give the haters more to say and argue with. Your giving them a louder voice bro. Plus you’ll never shut them up. Only Winston can do that when he wins this year.
Then you make it worse when you spout nonsense like “Dirk temporarily broke Winston”……….Now you make fans who support Winston argue against you. Tickdr argued you and I bet he supports Winston………get real with this freaking broke spit. The dude is a freaking pro. If he can’t handle adversity that’s on him. Steve Young and Aaron Rodgers had to replace HOFers. But Winston couldn’t replace Ryan freaking Fitzpatrick and it broke him? And it’s the head coaches fault cause the way he did it……….an you got see lame excuses up your sleeve but that is for sure the lamest.
June 29th, 2019 at 10:05 am
Joe … That’s awesome. My comments on ‘Awaiting Moderation’ are now ‘Awaiting Moderation’. This could be a really fun game. Nah
June 29th, 2019 at 10:09 am
Agree that JWs mechanics need a good look.
Didn’t BA say something about that when he was interviewed shortly after being hired??
I would def cut JW off from Whitfield – hasn’t made much progress
June 29th, 2019 at 10:13 am
You guys are right coaching doesn’t matter. My goodness you guys are clueless. And BTW every game has its own story for instance the game we won over Miami in 2017 with Fitz starting we got 3 picks and 2 fumble recoveries including scoring a TD on one of them. So that is 5 TO and a TD from our defense/ST, that might help a little in winning. The week before Fitz threw for a massive 187 yards with 1 TD and 1 INT taking points off the board. But in that game the defense played well holding the great Josh Mcknown to 10 points. So keeping making “great points” that are really garbage that I love shooting down.
June 29th, 2019 at 10:16 am
Trust me JimmyJack I am well aware of who is rooting against Winston and I never make excuses I state FACTS plain and simple. It is not my issue that reading comprehension is lacking.
June 29th, 2019 at 10:21 am
In the case of Whitfield and Jameis…
I don’t see a need to totally cut off Whitfield persay; I personally think he has helped Jameis more than he’s hurt him…That being said, I do believe that the things that the coaching staff have identified as things that Jameis needs to clean up needs to prioritized when the 2 are working together…
June 29th, 2019 at 10:28 am
Ndog sorry but saying that Dirk broke Winston is no fact. If Winston plays crappy football he is held accountable in my book. I’m not and never have been a big Dirk fan & I’m all for blaming and bashing him but that’s going a little too far even for me……..If you can’t get on the field and perform your job you just a lousy pro. No excuses.
June 29th, 2019 at 10:43 am
I root for Winston! Happy we drafted him and bought his jersey. After the suspension last year, I expected him to come back and play lights out. He didn’t. Now, he needs to show it this year. He lied to the fans and screwed our season last year. He can make it up with franchise QB play this year: specifically improve upon the 1.19TD: 1Turnover ratio!
Don’thand our giveaways and score on the red zone! Demonstrate solid decision making on and off the field.
June 29th, 2019 at 11:07 am
‘Two Issues Hurting Jameis’ – so basically his decision making and his throwing.. Got it!
At least he can hand the ball off……. Wait, WHAT?.. he fumbles a LOT too…
Who wants that guy for a qb… Well those people don’t like winning!
June 29th, 2019 at 11:27 am
Ndog, again it seems you are a jameis fan first and foremost & bucs fan second. Pretty sure “true” bucs fans want whoever is on the field to do better than the opponent. You seemed to be rooting for the BACKUP to fail. I just wanted fitz to win 2 games hand it back to jameis. Fitz was on fire, which he has done his whole carreer then goes back to fitz. Jameis came back and was rusty and the bucs as a team siffered due to jameis suspension from the NFL.
June 29th, 2019 at 11:39 am
SteveK I respect your opinion but…
I do believe that Winston’s suspension did hurt the team; I don’t necessarily believe it “screwed our season”…
As far as “lying to the fans” what was he supposed to say when a mediahead sticks a mic in your face…It’s easy to say what you would have done when it’s not you going thru it…Imho, with the exception being the Uber incident he has been a very active and positive figure in the community since he arrived…
Hate to beat a dead horse here but what screwed our season was Dirk Koetter not Winston…Demoting Winston and getting Fitzpatrick the necessary snaps to prepare for the first 3 games was a good idea but ignoring the 800 lbs. Gorilla which was Mike Smiths horrific defense was ultimately the reason we went 5-11 Again!…Let’s not forget the defense was historically bad in 2017…
There’s probably only 1 or 2 QB’s in the league who could’ve managed to even get to 8-8 here with this atrocious defense…
June 29th, 2019 at 11:54 am
There are lot of reasons they went 5-11 again last year, and Fitz was the reason it wasn’t 3-13. Winston is the initial reason the team was so dysfunctional…couldn’t even name team captains because of the controversy…and the team was under a flag of ridicule and shame because they draft Winston knowing what they were getting, and he screwed the owners, team, and fans who game him a chance. It sucked the life of fans and the energy. Fitz was a breath of fresh air that offered a little temporary relief from the reality that was. Yes the D was a huge reason they lost 11 games too. In the end, it was dysfunction abound broght on by the supposed face of the franchise. All the QBs were lights out in preseason. Had Winston never pulled what he did, the team likely would have felt better about themselves from the start. It’s no fun to be at work anywhere when that kind of stuff is going on, especially when it’s guys who had it all throw it all away. Yes, Koetter waited too long to fire Smith. Just like I think they are waiting too long to fire Winston.
June 29th, 2019 at 12:13 pm
Onebuc55,
Great points and thanks for taking time to reply. I can see where you are coming from. I was just trying to provide Ndog with a rebuttal to his absurd statement regarding Koetter for being at for Winston’s failures/suspension.
June 29th, 2019 at 12:27 pm
He’ll screw it up, guaranteed
June 29th, 2019 at 12:52 pm
The first breakdown epitomizes Jameis film
Ignoring wide open options to throw to a favorite target
June 29th, 2019 at 1:36 pm
Understood SteveK…
You definitely can’t fault Koetter for Winston’s Uber episode or the boneheaded turnovers…Turnovers are going to happen, the defense gets paid too but the boneheaded turnovers need to stop period…I thought Winston did a good job of cherishing the football ball once he returned from the benching…
I will however blame Koetter for his coaching decisions…I do think he stuck with Fitz to long in general; I agree Winston should have been benched that day, but not for multiple games…Winston is not a perfect QB (very few are), but he isn’t as bad as he’s made out to be either…
I personally don’t think Koetter did a good job of playing to his strengths…I also don’t think it was a very good decision to ask such a young QB to drop back and throw 40+ times a game…also, imo the redzone play calling under Koetter was very predicable; scoring in the redzone was also a big problem for Atlanta the first time Koetter was there…
It’s a big reason why he wasn’t given another HC job; he doesn’t manage a team or strong personalities very well…two very important attributes for any HC…
June 29th, 2019 at 1:59 pm
Lmao
NDOG IS SO PATHETIC.
How can you breathe with those nu ts so far down your throat?
“I state facts” “dirk broke Winston”
You are an idiot that is a Winston fan first Bucs fan second and it’s so painfully obvious to everyone but you. You’re probably not even a Bucs fan. If he went to another team instead of the Bucs you wouldn’t even be on JBF.
All you ever do is make excuses about every single thing involving Winston.
You better hope he has a great year or you’ll be rooting for another team next year. We can go 6-10 or 5-11 with any QB without having to pay 150 million.
I just wish you would admit that right now he is a borderline AVERAGE QB. But you’re ego won’t let you.
“He’s the best the Bucs have ever had”.
WOW that’s some accomplishment. Have you not seen that historic list of Bucs QB’s? It’s an extremely low bar.
That may be the dumbest weakest worst argument I’ve ever heard.
Don’t even respond to me. I’m so tired of reading your bullsht I’m about to puke.
A true franchise QB is not going into year 5 as a prove it year moron.
He would’ve already been resigned. We’ve all read the articles about “fixing” Winston. If he’s so great he wouldn’t need all this so called “fixing”. I wear my Winston jersey every dam Sunday during the season. However I realize that he’s average with a lot of flaws that may or may not be fixed. I don’t care if he stays or goes because I’m a BUCS FAN not beholden to any one player but you hold him up as the greatest player ever. And it’s pathetic.
If he went to UF your stupid as s would be throwing out useless stats saying he needs to go and you know it you hypocritical idiot along with the rest of the FSU jocksniffers.
June 29th, 2019 at 2:05 pm
But Jameis said football is 99.9% mental. Why work on fundamentals when it is only .01% of the game.
June 29th, 2019 at 2:06 pm
But Jameis said football is 99.9% mental. Why work on fundamentals when it is only .1% of the game.
June 29th, 2019 at 2:24 pm
With all due respect Mr Figures…I understand the point NDog was trying to make regarding Dirk Koetter…
Winston is not yet a finished product imo; and yes he still has alot to prove going into year 5 but the team around him hasn’t exactly done him many favors…He’s had some good WRs to work with (thank God) but that’s about where it ends…
It’s not easy to get a W in the NFL; it takes all 3 phases to win games…If the front office and coaching staff can find a way to get more out of the defense and special teams the Wins will come because Winston and the offense has the potential to be really good…
June 29th, 2019 at 2:39 pm
A lot of national publications and Internet sites don’t like Winston but every time they write an article Joe tries to discredit the source and defend his quarterback. I do believe Winston would be better with a running game and better defense. That being said I think he has a phony personality that people have bought into. He can say all the right things and preach to children but then turns around and his behavior contradicts what he says. He’s not a good guy and not marketable even in Tampa.
June 29th, 2019 at 3:32 pm
@Greg, please elaborate on your “phony personality” statement… Everyone is well aware of the 3 year old Uber fiasco…
You seem to have more insight on who Winston really is off the field…Do you know him personally? What other behaviors are you talking about?
Actual facts is on thing, your opinion is another, but it’s totally not cool to literally make up things…please give one or two examples of these contradicting behaviors you’re talking about…
June 29th, 2019 at 4:00 pm
Can you people actually read at all. I never said Koetter broke Winston, I swear it’s like debating with a four year old. Here is my exact line.
“He worries too much about getting DJax the ball or hitting a bomb early like Fitzpatrick or showing people he’s a leader with a speech. So couple that with Koetter handling the situation last year like he did you then have a TEMPORARILY broken QB that resulted in the Cincy game.”
You see those words that say COUPLE THAT when referring to Jameis AND Koetter. I clearly stated both of them lead to what happened. You see this is why you guys are a joke, you just make stuff up and say it like it gospel. You understand that is because you have NOTHING to bring to the discussion right. Get back to me when you actually can bring something to the table of substance.
June 29th, 2019 at 4:02 pm
In summary we have some of the most clueless football in America and frankly your an embarrassment to us all.
June 29th, 2019 at 4:17 pm
“I believe” and “I think” is pretty indicative it’s opinion. And guys here don’t have to preface every freaking thing with “this is my opinion…”
I agree with Greg…Winston is a BS artist. From the start. He’s a proven liar (one year ago, not three years). And the way he did was worse still.
And if Greg did know more about Winston first hand, he’d not likely say it…because that would be “totally not cool.”
I think (get it, “think” — opinion) it is well covered out there about all of Winston’s shenanigans. It’s not hard to find for oneself of what Winston says verus what he does. Since it was asked.
By all means, people should argue opinions all day long.
Yup, Winston needs to go. That is my opinion…or is it?
June 29th, 2019 at 4:20 pm
Can’t wait until the draft, amirite?!
June 29th, 2019 at 5:10 pm
Megadude who would’ve guessed you want Winston gone…
June 29th, 2019 at 6:27 pm
Onebuc55 there were two girls in college that came forward before the Uber driver. If you want to dismiss it as old news that’s up to you. They reported nationally that Winston was not forthcoming or honest with the Buccaneers about the Uber driver incident. He did not report it and when asked about it he told everyone that the driver was confused how many people were in the car and it was only him. He then implied he was in the backseat and camera footage shows he was in the front. He lied! No way around it. He says every cliché people want to hear but ultimately he is what he is both on and off the field. Most of my information was gathered from this site as well as pro football talk.com as well as Espn and nfl network.
June 29th, 2019 at 6:47 pm
“You’re” not “your” moron.
Always acting like you’re so much smarter than everyone else with your bullsht.
If Winston went to UF you’d be on the other side of the fence you hypocrite.
You’re a Winston fan not a Bucs fan. If he goes to another team you’ll be a fan of that team.
June 29th, 2019 at 7:21 pm
High expectations for you Winston need you to deliver. Go Bucs!
June 29th, 2019 at 8:13 pm
@OneBuc…why do you say that?
June 29th, 2019 at 8:18 pm
@Magadude and SteveK:
Thank you and a hat tip to you both!
tickrdr
June 30th, 2019 at 5:51 am
Man, the excuse train never ends! I’m so ready to put this to bed once and for all,one way or another. If I have to listen to another season of this, I’m going to lose my mind!
Either he CAN play, or he CAN’T.
July 1st, 2019 at 6:32 am
Joe, you are ONE HUNDRED PERCENT correct when you say “That’s just who Jameis is.” Dude ain’t gonna change. Bucs need to change…..QBs.