Talent
June 8th, 2019
Message to team.
Dirk Koetter said it. Father Dungy has said it. Now Bucco Bruce Arians has said it. Twice that Joe knows of.
It’s the word “talent.” And pretty damn soon if Bucs fans don’t start seeing wins, they are going to tune out Arians and probably his assistants and subsequent successors.
As captured on “Hard Knocks” two years ago, then-Bucs coach Dirk Koetter stood in front of his team and said the Bucs were the most talented team he had seen in Tampa Bay since arriving as offensive coordinator.
Then, Koetter’s Bucs proceeded to go out and post successive 5-11 seasons featuring some of the worst defense in western civilization (and that is not hyperbole).
Koetter wasn’t alone. Last year Father Dungy spoke to the Bucs on an invitation from Koetter. Later, Dungy told the local pen and mic club that there was “no doubt” in his mind the Bucs had the talent to get to the playoffs.
Instead, the Bucs were picking No. 5 overall and the coaching staff got run as the Bucs hired Dungy’s old friend and colleague Arians.
Arians before had mentioned he too thought the Bucs had talent, and in his final message to the team following the underwear football season Thursday, he mentioned again how the Bucs had talent.
“Talent is not the issue here, is it?” Arians said as caught by a Buccaneers.com camera. “We’ve got plenty of f*cking talent.”
Now Joe isn’t suggesting the Bucs don’t have talent. The offense has weapons at key passing positions (keyword: passing). On defense, the Bucs may have talent. Lavonte David is a stud and Ndamukong Suh has a fine resume. Nearly all the rest of the defensive players are green as grass and largely unproven. It remains to be seen what kind of talent the Bucs have on defense.
If the Bucs have so much talent, why have they been so horrible? Was coaching that disgusting? If that is the case, it sure blows up what the many fools who believe coaching is trivial (Joe is not among this group whatsoever).
Pardon Joe for being a bit jaded about the talent talk. Bucs fans have heard this song more than “Stairway to Heaven” on an FM classic rock station the past couple of years.
Time for some substance to back up the words.
June 8th, 2019 at 4:20 pm
Lol most fans with football eyes know it’s not a talent issue. It will be proven Dirk is another in a long line of trash coaches. Coaching is the issue meaning glazers did the hires so theyve been the problem, I problem that’s finally been corrected. Hopefully they are smart enough to recognize coaching once BA retires again
June 8th, 2019 at 4:22 pm
Joe—
“Pardon Joe is he is a bit jaded about the talent talk.”
I’m just damned perplexed that after getting a one-on-one interview with BA…and having personally witnessed OTA’s (to the extent you can) and all the fundamental changes made strategically as a SYSTEM…I’m just perplexed why you have to be so histrionic and can’t just let yourself (your third-person selves) be just a LITTLE damned optimistic about our upcoming season. Does BA lack that much credibility in your eyes to not offset our experience as a perennial loser this past decade?
I listen to lots of podcasts from other teams because I’m interested. Man, they all seem so excited and optimistic, not “jaded”. But here, it’s as if you’ve been a literally abused child for a decade and if Jesus Christ himself came on the scene to heal all wounds, you’d be jaded because the damned healed leper’s now want to eat all the beet salad in Tampa (had to get that in there for Ira).
SO MUCH TO BE OPTIMISTIC ABOUT, Joe!!!
Just go with it once in a while.
It won’t kill you. Hell, you might even enjoy embracing the positive for a few seconds.
June 8th, 2019 at 4:25 pm
Your last line says it all Joe … “Time for some substance to back up the words”. However, IT’S ONLY JUNE … 3 months to go until our first game. No REAL substance until the bullets start flying.
Agree with your earlier point that most of our defense is “green as grass and largely unproven”. That MAY be the blessing in disguise though. Almost all of our new guys are coming in some excellent experience at the COLLEGE level, coming from winning programs, and most importantly, they’re being developed by a coaching staff with gobs of experience. Yes they’re green, but I’ve got a hunch they’ll grow up FAST. BA & TB will see to that.
As an aside, was looking at the Browns coaching staff & roster earlier and came to the conclusion that our Bucs will very likely have a better record this year. Cleveland’s grabbed up a whole bunch of good (and young) TALENT, but I’m not nearly as impressed with their coaching staff as I am with ours. Rapid player development is essential for BOTH the Browns & the Bucs this year, and I’ll put my money on our coaching staff over theirs.
June 8th, 2019 at 4:25 pm
Howard wonders what the glazers think of Stu Sternberg.
Here’s a guy who’s been doing exactly what the glazers wish they could do: Build a damn good and consistent team on the cheap. It seems like no matter who the manager is, the Rays are still competitive, if not very very good.
I think the major difference is that Stu really is a baseball fan at heart.
Anyhow…so what’s gerald mccoy up to ?
June 8th, 2019 at 4:26 pm
At this point I don’t know who to trust. The previous two seasons the Bucs where supposed to have talent to make the playoffs, then preceded to post 5-11 records back to back. Entering 2019, the Bucs lost couple key players through free agency and now the Bucs are a below .500 team, what gives? Games are not played on paper they’re played on the field, I’ll wait until September.
The NFL has shown us that no team are the same year in and year out. High expectations are placed upon certain teams only to see them fall short.
June 8th, 2019 at 4:29 pm
Dirk Koetter = Peter Principle of NFL coaches.
June 8th, 2019 at 4:37 pm
I’m a firm believer in speed on the football field. I believe this team became a whole lot faster on both sides of the ball this offseason. Additionally, there is no comparison between BA and Cutter.
June 8th, 2019 at 4:47 pm
With all the crap we have been through since the glory days, reasoned critical analysis is necessary and welcomed. Your negativity does not reach that standard and your attempt at humor is deplorable. Also, we can do without all the name dropping which might be true or not. Your obsession with Johnnie Manziel was totally misguided and eroded much of your credibility. Other than that I enjoy your site for most of its content.
June 8th, 2019 at 4:49 pm
Frankly, I think we are between a 8-8 and 10-6 team, talent wise. And that is good enough for a playoff appearance. If we don’t end up at least 8-8 this year, I will be very disappointed.
June 8th, 2019 at 4:51 pm
Clarification…The 10-6 is good enough for the playoff appearance… but if we aren’t at least 8-8, I will be very disappointed.
June 8th, 2019 at 4:55 pm
Love Johnny! He may be playing for Houston of the XFL.
June 8th, 2019 at 4:59 pm
Add inn JPP,people people people if an official report hasn’t been given that means he’ll play week 1. Clue 1 was BA stating how they always seem to add a vet the week before the season kicks off examples John Abraham and Dwight Freeney. This time it will be a player already on the roster JPP. Clue 2 Suh says during a presser he doesn’t want to get in JPP’s way in reference to the #90. Clue 3,BA saying “we have our fingers cross”. That’s game for we have an agreement with him he’s earned it over his career. Miss all that camp stuff but come in ready to roll once those rounds start flying down range.
June 8th, 2019 at 5:08 pm
NOSBOS.
Looks like you’ve connected all of the dots,
I really do enjoy your optimism.
June 8th, 2019 at 5:26 pm
Talent yes, but you’re only as strong as your weakest link. I’d say the number 1 question mark is the offensive line. I see that as potentially the weakest link, but new coaches and no games yet. It’s only speculation but no upgrades on a line that didn’t run block well, didn’t protect the QB well and was not dominant in any game last season. Dotson is old and slow, gets beat a lot. Donovan Smith wasn’t good either and gave up on plays. Jensen has a bad back, so I hear and didn’t shine. Marpet is the lone wolf out there. The other guard (won’t even say his name) was so bad, he should not be on any team. This could become a major problem especially if they let Winston get pounded, and hurt like they do every year. Defense will carry this team if it’s to happen.
June 8th, 2019 at 5:32 pm
Some how the talentless Bucs were able to start the season by beating the division winning Saints and the Super Bowl Eagles with no talent and a poor coaching staff…wow that’s amazing!
Let’s assume for just a second that this team does have some talent and now is coached by an experienced competent coaching staff. Why is it sinful to have just a little optimism?
June 8th, 2019 at 5:41 pm
NOSBOS Says:
June 8th, 2019 at 4:59 pm
Add inn JPP,people people people if an official report hasn’t been given that means he’ll play week 1.
Glad to hear someone else with optimism on JPP. I have been saying all along that if it was a non displaced fx without any nerve issues, he would be back before the original November time line. That was why I never got the cut him arguments.
Hope you are right and he is playing week 1.
June 8th, 2019 at 5:51 pm
@mark
You say they’re between 8-8 and 10-6?
So 9-7 then.
And disappointed if they’re not 8-8?
We’ll be prepared because 8-8 would be a miracle and a very successful season.
June 8th, 2019 at 5:53 pm
Figures—
6-0 out of the blocks. Heard it here first.
June 8th, 2019 at 6:05 pm
If only the nfl season was two games long all these Jameis hater would be unquestionable geniuses.
I guess what I love most is how they all forgot about the other 6 games Fitztragic and MeShawn and their long-ball lost.
Love how they forgot about the 12 interceptions in 8 games.
But please let me know when we go to a 2-game regular season so fitztragic can lead the dolphins to the super bowl. Hopefully he doesn’t throw 3 ints and a pick 6 in one quarter on a nationally televised game (again).
Truth be told these unquestionable geniuses would hate Jameis even if he won the last 3 Super Bowls and went undefeated like he did in college sans one game.
Hopefully one day soon UF will produce another Rex Grossman so we can finally get back to the SB.
June 8th, 2019 at 6:07 pm
Based on BAs previous performances it almost guaranteed that we hit at minimum 8-8. Even with all our top talent hurt (worst case).
8-8 at worst 11-5 best.
June 8th, 2019 at 6:13 pm
Joe’s got an eye for talent.
I saw Johnny Manziel play for about a quarter for Memphis against Orlando in the AAF and there is no denying, the dude has talent.
June 8th, 2019 at 6:32 pm
Joe, You know the coaching has been horrible. Koetter had a great offense but what’s the use if he held on to Mike Smith and his horrible schemes?
June 8th, 2019 at 7:04 pm
DB55,
1, focusing on a 2 games and not the season. Or the last 6.
2, 11 INT’s in 4 games seems so, so much better.
3, 3 picks in a half including a pick 6. Or 4 in a half. Which reset the bar .btw.
4, 2 games of connecting with DJax on long balls for TD’s. Is that better than 0 big games and 20+ games of just missing.
I get it winston is the man , Fitz is trash. Fitz is gone. Haters hate winston.
This is year…..blah blah blah,
Mike smith got canned for a defense 10 times better than that stellar case you rolled out. Winston needs less haters or smarter apologists.
June 8th, 2019 at 7:05 pm
If the Bucs have as good as an offense as last year and improve the defense to the top 15, watch out. Not saying we are super bowl bound but playoffs are definitely in the cards.
Besides the new coaches, If we are 10-6 or better, I attribute the year’s success to the speed on defense. We were too slow the last few years and finally we can run with anybody. What a change for the better.
June 8th, 2019 at 7:59 pm
I’m really digging BA’s confidence. He kinda reminds me of an old school bull$hitter but he’s got the credibility to back it up. He ain’t taking any slacking though. I’m hoping JPP can pull through and at least play the last half of the season… hopefully…
June 8th, 2019 at 8:47 pm
Where exactly are the Bucs so talented – and by talent, we’re talking better than league average players, players that make a difference?
Evans
O.J.
Maaaaaaybe Godwin as a wR2.
Can we clearly say we are better than most teams at any other position on offense?
On Defense
Lavonte
Suh
Maaaaaaaaybe White and maybe Vea.
Can we really say we are better than league average at any other position (with JPP out)?
The Bucs are nowhere near as talented as people think. Not even close.
June 8th, 2019 at 9:42 pm
Yo joe
Did you know Brentson Buckner is over with chucky in Oakland as a dline coach?
June 8th, 2019 at 9:46 pm
Keep feeding us the same BS we hear every year at this time and at the start of training camp. Not buying anything from this team or even the Lightning now. No talk. Show me when it counts.
June 8th, 2019 at 9:54 pm
1-15
June 8th, 2019 at 10:30 pm
still a 6-10 roster with many glaring holes. No legit RB, the entire right side of OL. Backend might be good in 2-3 years. Love optimism of bucs fans but its still a 5-11 roster
June 8th, 2019 at 10:48 pm
Agree. Definitely talent on the team. They need to learn to win games…. Consistently.
We don’t need every position to be all pros just solid players that have a common goal
Now I’ll watch the video
June 8th, 2019 at 11:05 pm
Need to learn how to win, have some guys improve (Cappa at RG, or whoever starts there), avoid catastrophic injuries…The things I’ve been waiting to come together for a decade now.
June 8th, 2019 at 11:42 pm
BucsBandit Says:
June 8th, 2019 at 8:06 pm
Winston is one of the WORST NFL QBs during the first few drives to start a game. That has NOTHING to do with how good or bad our Defense is. He’s given the ball with a chance to drive us down the field and score points and he has rarely done it. And you can’t blame that on kicking either… the top QBs often score TDs within the first 3 drives of a game. Winston has rarely ever does that.
So you say rarely if ever do you?
Well in his 9 starts this past year, which was his worst, he scored points in 7 games in the first 3 drives in his 9 starts. Below is each instance, so you think scoring on 78% on your first drives is doing something rarely? Bro know your facts before running your mouth.
@ Atlanta first drive TD (L)
Cleveland first drive FG second drive TD (W)
49ers second drive TD (W)
Carolina first drive TD second drive FG (W)
Saints first drive TD (L)
@ Dallas first drive FG (L)
Atlanta second drive TD (L)
June 8th, 2019 at 11:58 pm
Right now they’re 0-0 like every other team.
June 8th, 2019 at 11:59 pm
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June 9th, 2019 at 12:50 am
The NFL has this thing called “The Draft” where in the top 3 rounds the top 100 players out of college are chosen(roughly). The idea is that each team has a somewhat equal chance at the top talent coming out of college.
From what I have heard, there is a roughly 50% rate of star players -vs- busts in that group. The later rounds produce the occasional star as well, but at a much lower rate. Considering that the draft equates to the top 225 to 250 players, it seems that each team has a chance to pick up some talent.
Why do some teams get more out of the draft than others?
Coaching and scheme have a large part in that
But…
Attitude and desire are just as important
Attitude and desire, along with a little pride brought us a Super Bowl in 02 more than coaching
Can attitude and desire be coached into a team?
2019 will tell
Lets just say that I’m looking forward to it
June 9th, 2019 at 7:12 am
BA or BS we shall see in September.
June 9th, 2019 at 8:33 am
If you can’t see that Arians is the best coach the Bucs have had since Gruden, then your knowledge of pro football is limited.
Last year poor coaching , poor schemes, poor leadership and injuries were factors. Koetter never showed Jameis that he had full confidence in him and only went back to Jameis because Fitzpatrick was terrible.
June 9th, 2019 at 8:39 am
Hopefully this guy will realize Jameis is Jameis and there is nothing he can do to change that. With all the good qbs that will most likely be in the 2020 draft it would be ashame to miss out. Especially, if we get another top 5 pick. Even if we only get a top 10 pick there are at least 6 or 7 qbs that are worthy of a 1st round pick.
June 9th, 2019 at 8:48 am
Alanbusfan my knowledge is not limited. My knowledge is realistic not in some fantasy world. BA might have been a good coach and on paper still is but other than Devin White I see no real improvement. While other teams in the nfl show major improvement the bucs and their GM, by the way is rated at the bottom of the nfl GMs, continue to flounder at the bottom of the sea.
June 9th, 2019 at 10:25 am
Koetter and Smith were a disaster in Jacksonville,Why did anyone expect anything different when the dynamic duo showed up in T town.However, I have to say Koetter was the better of the two!
June 9th, 2019 at 11:32 am
If coaching didn’t matter there wouldn’t be firings and hirings. If coaching didn’t matter there would BE NO COACHES and a computer pre programmed with randomized plays designed to counter and confuse the opposition using odds and mathematics etc. Players would be left to execute using the “Talent” that got them drafted to the nfl.
Coaching, playcalling, motivating and accountability are 65-70% of what makes a winning team. If BA can’t turn things around with almost the same roster THEN I will agree that its talent across the board (which its not). If BA can’t turn this around nobody will and the last thing remaining to be replaced will be the ownership.
Funny how everyone blames years of draft picks on Jason Licht when its really been Lovie, Dirk and Smitty making the picks for the last 6 years.
ITS ALWAYS BEEN COACHING!!!!!!!! There is a reason why Lovie and Mike Smith are not even IN THE LEAGUE ANYMORE!!! HERE’S YOUR SIGN!!!!!!!! FIX THE DEFENSE AND THIS TEAM IS A CONTENDER YEAR IN YEAR OUT WITH BA!!!!!
June 10th, 2019 at 1:26 pm
A question for all about the Bucs ’19 record and your hopes for the type team we have.
This was brought about when as a Lightning fan I saw an ad for the big memorial book on the Bucs 2018-19 season. I thought who wants to see that with the memory of the Columbus debacle fresh in our throats.
So Bucs fans….if you had to choose…would you rather have a team that sets all kinds of regular season team and individual records only to flame out in the first round of the playoffs…
OR…
A team that struggles to get into the playoffs and lucks in with 9 wins because of tiebreakers but then goes on a run and wins all their playoff games to become the next miracle team?
I prefer the latter but that Lightning experience my cloud my logic.