Major Speed Challenge For Jameis Winston
June 30th, 2019
Data implies faster action is necessary
Joe really likes the NFL’s computer-generated NextGen Stats because they’re not subjective in any way.
Technology tracks footballs and uniforms and out comes a mountain of granular data.
Regrettably, the NFL only makes a tiny bit available to the public.
For fun, Joe took a peek at “Time To Throw” stats on NFL.com. It measures ‘the average amount of time elapsed from the time of snap to throw on every pass attempt for a passer (sacks excluded).”
America’s Quarterback, Jameis Winston, has been near the bottom of the NFL the past three years, meaning he takes more time to throw than most:
2.88 seconds (2016)
2.77 (2017)
2.80 (2018)
Ok, that’s probably understandable given Dirk Koetter’s offense took more deep shots and had longer dropbacks than most. And Bruce Arians’ offense is very similar.
But hold up! When Joe looked at Carson Palmer’s “Time To Throw” in 2016, the first season of available data, Palmer was among the best in the NFL at 2.49 seconds. And considering how much Arians reveres Palmer and how he ran Arians’ offense, this tells Joe that Jameis is going to have to play faster this season — and that’s a tough task for a QB in a new offense.
Think Joe is reaching here? Consider who led the NFL in “Time To Throw” in 2017, current Bucs backup Blaine Gabbert making five starts in Arians’ offense.
June 30th, 2019 at 11:03 am
Good stuff here Joe. Valid. Best in the bay
June 30th, 2019 at 11:07 am
You made a post about a quarter of a second. Awesome.
June 30th, 2019 at 11:28 am
yea, but it’s a negative Mort. That makes it worthy of publication on JBF. Joe has positive stuff here about the Bucs here every day. The 11-year archives are here for all. –Joe
June 30th, 2019 at 11:42 am
@gilhealy I wouldn’t say that’s a negative article just stating the facts. On average you have a bout 3 sec to get the ball out of your hands before your sacked. Winston is getting sacked before 3 sec is even up. I know it’s just before the 3 sec mark but I agree he should be making his reads just a little quicker but if the routes take long to develop then he either checks down or throws it away.
June 30th, 2019 at 11:43 am
Arians and Koetter each run their own variation of the 4 vertical offense. Winston’s main difference for him will be terminology and blitz pickup (audibles) with I believe will be increased responsibility to be able to change the play. It is not that big of a change say as if we were changing from the 4 vert to a west coast offense.
June 30th, 2019 at 11:53 am
Jameis doesn’t make quick decisions or have a quick delivery of the ball so I wouldn’t expect it to change. After watching his film he seems to lock on to a pre determined read and wait for that read to get open rather than read the field and hit the open man.
I’d say he does this mostly on 3rd downs as maybe he goes with who he trust in those spots. But it costs him and shows he doesn’t learn from his mistakes.
Stupid selfish player is what my old college coach referred to those guys as
June 30th, 2019 at 11:55 am
The key is running game and defense…..Winston isn’t going to be anything different at this point unless the coach manages portions of the game away from him. If you drop him back 30+ times per game….he’s going to avg 2-3 turnovers. You cant win in the NFL with those numbers at QB. Its well documented he has a less then efficient wind up….he locks in on receivers….he tries to extend plays…and then makes consistently questionable decisions under pressure. At this point its more about determining a formula in which you can find a way to win despite his flaws….meaning how can you get him to manage a game successfully. I believe its possible…or at least was. “IF” he gets an extension, very good chance that handicaps this team in some facet that diminishes the masking job required to make him successful. He’s somewhere between Matthew Stafford and Jay Cutler…..You see the talent but its not equating too much.
June 30th, 2019 at 11:59 am
#1bucfan did you even read the article? It was about how long a QB took to throw a pass . In jameis case 2.80 seconds which is at the bottom of league.
June 30th, 2019 at 12:05 pm
@#1bucsfan, just watch what this devolves into. Loyaltotheend is following the protocol of the site. More to come.
June 30th, 2019 at 12:09 pm
@Joe, sure you do. lol.
June 30th, 2019 at 12:10 pm
@loyaltotheend don’t you think that was more a a design of the offense? Takes time for deep plays to develop. Think that fails back on those calling the plays, can’t blame the QB on that
June 30th, 2019 at 12:12 pm
Nothing more negative than most of those who post on this site. Clearly not fans of the Bucs
June 30th, 2019 at 12:12 pm
Ok, this article is a milestone piece. This is all on JW. BA’s offense will be dictating, regardless of who the QB behind center. BA will be the one transforming this team, NOT JW. JW plays a part in the scheme.
If JW is inconsistent this year, he will not get a pass from me that he had to learn a new offense and speed up his play. He’s supposed to be elite, lets see it.
I’m curious to hear from our OL Haters on this article. How much does decision making (hanging on to the ball) affect the reality/perception of the OL play?
I know I’m not the only one who saw this team fight harder when Fitz was under center. Why is that? Trust…? He sure as hell didn’t lie to his team about an off the field issue for starters. He also didn’t ‘over-try’ to be a rah rah guy (see eating W’s). Think that stuff doesn’t matter? I simply refer back to the effort while Fitz was on the field vs JW.
June 30th, 2019 at 12:19 pm
@RobertG
BA has the same type of offense so expecting different results with almost the same offensive personnel is moronic. Jameis has to change his mentality read the field hit the open man. Locking into one guy gives the d a decided advantage and hurts the team
June 30th, 2019 at 12:30 pm
@loyaltotheend I don’t expect Jameis to be any faster than he is especially if he has to wait for plays to develop. It would be moronic to think otherwise. We had the #1 passing offence in the NFL last year, I dont think Jameis had a problem with finding an open receiver. His problem is he thinks he needs to always win with every play. Hopefully the new staff will coach that out of him. Who are you loyal to anyways? Sure don’t sound like you’re a buccaneers fan.
June 30th, 2019 at 12:38 pm
Off field stuff is what it was three years ago!! I’m going to give him a fair shot at doing a good job in the 2019 season…but if this O/Line doesn’t come together this will be another long season!! Brush your shoulders off JW3! Go Bucs Go Shuy!
June 30th, 2019 at 12:38 pm
There are a lot of variables to isolate here, but all other things being equal, I like (and worry about) Joe’s point about maybe having to be faster. If that’s the case, given Winston already, could translate to even more picks if (when?) he presses.
I hear another excuse coming from the apologists when his turnovers continue: Jameis just needs more time in this new offense; he needs to learn how to be quicker (they’ll think that should buy him a year or more).Go FSU! Go Jaemis!
June 30th, 2019 at 12:45 pm
People complain in the past about the acquisition of Blaine as a backup. I think BA knew who he wanted as a backup QB.
That’s the way to reload BA!!!!!
Go Bucs!!!!!
June 30th, 2019 at 12:55 pm
Some of you need to stop being so dog-gone sensitive about the Jameis criticisms. He needs to improve, that’s FACT!
June 30th, 2019 at 1:03 pm
Sure, Jameis needs to improve somewhat…..but we need a running game and a defense….not to mention improved ST.
There are many variables with the time to throw stats…..receivers not getting open, types of throws….protection….
Jameis may have more time to throw so he takes it…..he may take longer because he’s not seeing the open receivers or he is locking in on one.
He has a tendency to want to go to Evans or Brate……but, who can blame him for that?
June 30th, 2019 at 1:04 pm
good thing he has another slow motion thrower in leftwich teaching him the fundamentals
June 30th, 2019 at 1:22 pm
What the stats left out is that the defensive line pressure gets to JAYEMISS in 1.5 secs but wtfdik
June 30th, 2019 at 1:22 pm
Bucsfanman: improvement is needed from the Top, to the field IMO.
June 30th, 2019 at 1:43 pm
I wonder if they have those stats on Bret Favre?
“I know I’m not the only one who saw this team fight harder when Fitz was under center. Why is that? Trust…? He sure as hell didn’t lie to his team about an off the field issue for starters.”
So the fact that a 21 year old professional athlete drinks too much one night and makes a clumsy pass at a female and that’s a deal breaker for you? That wasn’t that much of a problem for his girl friend.
You think that other pro athletes don’t trust him because he likes girls or he got too drunk once? This is the NFL, not a hair salon! Bret Favre used to dick pic girls.
I don’t trust guys with beards or guys that don’t drink or guys that don’t like girls.
June 30th, 2019 at 1:53 pm
Maybe BA will allow Winston to run more “hurry up” offense this year.
Seems like whenever Winston has run a “2 minute offense” type pace in the past he has almost always played quite well.
But Koetter rarely ever ran “hurry up” except at the end of halves or games when it was necessary to do so.
June 30th, 2019 at 2:10 pm
One big factor in this is we ran many little ng developing plays under Dirk. We also do not get our RBs involved in the passing game which are quicker plays. Putting a RB in the slot does not count. At that point they are essentially a WR.
In 2015 we did use our RBs coming out of the backfield often. I really wish those numbers were added to the list to see if it made a difference.
Another thing to take from this stat is that if our QB is taking a long time to get the ball put that means our OL has to hold up longer. The runblock is a different story but they are much better at pass protection then given credit for.
June 30th, 2019 at 2:23 pm
Joe:
Completely off topic, but new post on NFL.com ranks each teams’ RB1.
Maurice Jones-Drew ranks RoJo # 32. I’m not sure how much better it would be if Peyton Barber were RB1?
tickrdr
June 30th, 2019 at 2:30 pm
Wow two of the slowest releases AND a banged up LT who has skinny legs and a long hair don’t care who’s not getting this new offense …Can’t belive they didn’t address that line more in offseason..and hoping a Running Game magically appears..I may become a Winston apologist this year !!
June 30th, 2019 at 2:32 pm
Forgot the best part a new QB coach who had a longer windup than Bob Feller..they can use sundial to time an release this year
June 30th, 2019 at 2:33 pm
@Joe,
Did they post the numbers for 2015? Just curious if there was a difference when Lovie was reeling in Dirk’s play call selection.
June 30th, 2019 at 2:38 pm
I like what Winston did after returning from the bench last year…first time in his life he has ever been sat down for performance.
Lets see what he does this year before we run the risk of another QB having success elsewhere… Buc fans suck sometimes
June 30th, 2019 at 3:05 pm
Cue NDOG
IT WAS KOETTERS FAULT.
June 30th, 2019 at 3:22 pm
Pit- I agree 100 million percent! Leadership starts at the top.
June 30th, 2019 at 3:23 pm
Was this article supposed to be a backhanded compliment to the offensive line for holding pass pro long enough for Jameis to post the league’s best passing attack
June 30th, 2019 at 3:37 pm
Why do this fan base and local media and franchise only focus on Jamies? As if we have a good running back or we have a great or even a good defense. I just wish this team and fan base would focus on the hold team and not just the quarterback. That’s why we are a bad team cause yall don’t really watch other teams and how they win . I saw a post on this site. And it said most of yall don’t watch no other team but the bucs and national media. I have the NFL ticket so I can watch my bucs. But after the bucs game I also watch other games and I see why that teams that win wins and teams that lose like us lose. The Patriots win cause they play as a team . The defense does not give up a lot of points if any in the first half or quarter. They run the ball when they want to and every body plays a part in the game. Now that’s not just for the Patriots but to all the teams that wins. The teams that lose year in and year out even thow there running back is no good and there defense is no good all they focus on is quarterback as if that’s all they need. WHEN YOUR Team IS Trash You Are Not 1 Quarterback AWAY From WINING A SUPER BOWL!!!!!!!!!! THAT’S CALLED FACTS!!!!! STOP WORRYING ABOUT QUARTERBACK And WORRY ABOUT The Hold Team Please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
June 30th, 2019 at 3:40 pm
Thank god Leftwich is working with him. He was known for his quick release.
June 30th, 2019 at 4:28 pm
Pickrin
I think you are right. They have studied all Jameis film – all 3 -4 coaches.
I could see them run hurry up – a Jameis strength.
I could see them role him out more – a Jameis strength
I think arians focuses on matchups so much that guys will be more wide open down field this year. Accuracy won’t matter as much. He Especially works crazy routes with the slot receiver. Chris Godwin will go sit in those open spots. That is Why arians is so confident with him getting 100 catches. Mike Evans on outside getting double. Speed perriman or Scotty Miller on other. Or OJ running crazy routes as well.
I thinks arians will get more TDs in red zone wherein Koetter attempted more field goals last year. I didn’t say get Fgs last year cause our kicker was not automatic.
June 30th, 2019 at 4:35 pm
Always did thunk Winston geld onto the ball too long. Blame o line as much as you want but I’ve seen him standing there wih a clean pocket at times just holding onto it. The difference between him and palmer in this case is likely that he doesnt throw a quick ball with lots of hang time to let his deep guy run under it.. he holds onto it long then uses his long windup to throw a low trajectory bullet down field. That type of throw also has k be more accurate ad the wr can’t just run user it.. hence Jackson and him not having much connection and him needing a biggwr radius pass catcher
June 30th, 2019 at 4:47 pm
I don’t think Jameis struggles with offensive play calling as much as I think he struggles deciphering defenses.If he understood defenses better his progressions wouldn’t take so long to find the hot read. He would pretty much already have an ideal before the snap. Plus play calling does effect the timing as well. Maybe if we were more west coast or played more short and intermediate passes you’d see less delay.
June 30th, 2019 at 5:11 pm
You know let’s just cut Winston that should round out our team to completion by making our passing game as horrible as the rest of the team from the previous few seasons. That should solve all our issues since he is the sole reason we have been losing games. I’m sure once he’s gone our defense will not give up 30 points a game, our kickers will make all their kicks and our running game will explode and dominate the league. I’m mean any self respecting fan knows the QB controls every aspect of the team and responsible for every flaw a team has. I mean look at how well we turned everything around when we got rid of those bums Steve Young, Doug Williams and Vinny Testerverde! I mean we rolled in those years right after cause like always getting rid of the QB always solves every issue.
June 30th, 2019 at 5:21 pm
It’s a little concerning that Byron Sackwich will be working with him as his QB coach. Sackwich had the longest windup in the history of QBs.
June 30th, 2019 at 5:53 pm
@RobertG
Hard to credit Jameis for the #1 passing offense when the biggest passing performances came with him at home…
Bucs are losing nearly 2400 yards and 17TDs from Fitz
Watch the film man, the All 22 is available he locks onto one receiver quite a bit and doesn’t see the field very well for a experienced pro
June 30th, 2019 at 5:53 pm
Ndog, The reason fans like me pile on Jameis is because he is “THE FACE OF THE FRANCHISE!!!” Sure, we have poor performance all over the place (see RoJo) and we call them out. But, the QB stands astride the whole team, even if he isn’t playing defense. Who did we have to hang our hats on in the defense last year? Kwon? After he left all we heard was how poorly he played and what a magic upgrade we were going to get in the draft. If we had anybody to stand up for this franchise like a Ray Lewis of Deacon Jones or Alvin Kamara or Julio Jones then we talk about them- -but we don’t. Therefore your secret Santa friend Jameis is front and center. Like he should be. Watch closely this year since he could be gone before Trump.
June 30th, 2019 at 6:37 pm
Ndog I’m with you bro . I will be glad when Jamies is eather cut or traded then who will be the next reason why we lose cause then you don’t have a scapegoat no more .
June 30th, 2019 at 6:48 pm
Ndog’s gone to the zoo.
June 30th, 2019 at 7:09 pm
Thank you, Joe! This explains why I’ve been yelling at the television to (in my best Colt McCoy Texas twang), “GET RID OF THE DANG BALL!”
June 30th, 2019 at 7:31 pm
Cut him, cut him, cut him, cut him! What are we waiting for, if we don’t cut him now it will torpedo our season. Act now!!!!!!!!!
June 30th, 2019 at 7:38 pm
@Ndog … “let’s just cut Winston, that should round out our team to completion by making our passing game as horrible as the rest of the team”. Great attempt at sarcasm Ndog. Come to think of it though, upon further reflection it comes across as yet another ‘Excuse for Winston’. Jameis doesn’t need excuses; he just needs to DO HIS JOB and DO IT WELL.
Joe offered up a significant finding based on empirical data … “Winston, has been near the bottom of the NFL the past three years, meaning he takes more time to throw than most”. THAT’S potentially significant because if Jameis can speed up the ‘process’ of getting rid of the ball he MIGHT get quite a bit better results (higher completion rate, more TDs, fewer turnovers, etc). Got a hunch though that BA, Clyde & Byron have already figured this out & are probably focusing on that aspect of his game.
June 30th, 2019 at 7:56 pm
Looked at the list there were some surprise lows and highs but no surprise was Bree’s at the top consistently. NOT a Bree’s fan but he is tough, smart and very quick. Hard to get a rush going against a QB like that. Newton since injuries is just the opposite. Matt Ryan is in the middle smart but not as quick. Once Winstin figures out even a 1 yard pass is better than a sack or especially a turnover (int. Or fumble) he might have a chance to be great. Breaking the home run mentality is extremely tough though so I’m hoping he can keep the passion but lose the all or nothing instincts.
June 30th, 2019 at 8:21 pm
Is someone throwing a temper tandrum again ?
Can someone change his poopy diaper ?
I mean Dude. How old are you ?
June 30th, 2019 at 8:27 pm
Cut him, cut him, cut him! Time is wasting what are we waiting for, he is the problem, this will solve everything. The defense will develop a unstoppable pass rush, the coverage will be lock down, our online will remind us all of the Great Wall formerly in Dallas and Peyton Barber will become the next Emmit Smith. We all know they need to cut him this instance as every second he is on this team we get just a little worse. Our players work out less, our coaches go home earlier, our owners sign more crappy players for Man U, our fans lay awake at night with nightmares of us losing 42 to 38 and having our horrific offense to blame. When will they just end it and gives us hope?!?!?!?!?!?!
June 30th, 2019 at 8:30 pm
Magadude what do you mean about zoo bro ? I can read between the lines now !!!!!
June 30th, 2019 at 9:13 pm
Night night time
Let him cry it out
Poor little guy
June 30th, 2019 at 9:20 pm
^^^^^^lmao what a b$tch lol.
Whaaaaa whaaaaaa I’ve run out of useless stats and it’s not fair that everyone else doesn’t suck Winston’s balls like me whaaaa whaaaa.
June 30th, 2019 at 9:43 pm
Sorry you guys are right, WE SHOULD TRADE HIM duh. My bad fellas we should be able to at least get a 7th round pick for him or maybe a practice squad player. That way we could start Gabbett this year then draft a new QB with our 32nd overall pick cause we will win the Superbowl cause the cure to all our problems will be solved with this brilliant move. My bad guys I wish I would have thought about that sooner. The day is coming guys, let’s just hang on as they can’t keep him much longer as everyone can see once he is gone the next step is immediate eupohia.
June 30th, 2019 at 10:16 pm
Byron is the OC and Clyde Christinson is the QB coach. Qb coach is the one who works on foot work and machanics. I’m not sure what Christinson’s throwing motion is like but I’m not too worried about it. Jameis hasn’t had an issue with a slow release since college. I realize facts don’t matter much today but I’m old school and facts still mean something to me.
Have any of you guys that still believe Jameis has a slow delivery watched what the panthers are trying to do with Cam’s motion? I think it took cam 2 seconds just in his windup alone. It’s going to be interesting to see what happens there. There’s a reason why they picked a Qb (Will Grier) in the 3rd round.
June 30th, 2019 at 10:34 pm
Whenever my white friends are exasperated and are being sarcastic I say “Are you going to the zoo?” It’s just a common expression we all use daily.
Come on Joes. Maga can use that crap in the storm front chat room when he’s around his like minded buddies but he shouldn’t get away with that here.
June 30th, 2019 at 10:53 pm
And with all that said Winston is still the starting QB of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Any Questions?
June 30th, 2019 at 11:28 pm
Do your thang Jameis.
Let the chips fall where they may.
Our team has always sucked anyways……
June 30th, 2019 at 11:34 pm
Figures Says:
June 30th, 2019 at 9:20 pm
^^^^^^lmao what a b$tch lol.
Whaaaaa whaaaaaa I’ve run out of useless stats and it’s not fair that everyone else doesn’t suck Winston’s balls like me whaaaa whaaaa.
After weeks of reading the comments I’m now convinced that some people have issues, you sir have volumes. Get help!!!!
July 2nd, 2019 at 8:38 am
Vertical offenses aren’t all built the same. The best vertical offenses have a non-vertical component built in to balance it out. The Steelers have one of the most vertical offenses in the league, but RELY on the running game and short passing game to the RB. We never had that with Koetter. And even worse, we rarely even TRIED using the short passing game with Koetter. RB’s were too often simply used to block to afford Winston more time in the pocket to find a receiver down field. The offense was built TD to check down, but didn’t even offer a check down at times. These are the types of play designs that make a QB’s job more difficult and often directly led to the “poor decision making” that everyone blames entirely on Jameis.
Arians won’t constantly leave his QB in those situations. You can bet we’ll see more plays designed to look vertical that actually use the RB or underneath routes as the primary receiver. Where Koetter always required Jameis to run through a progression (hence the longer time to throw), Arians doesn’t always do that. He builds in 1-read throws and a variety of plays designed to deceive defenses. He’s not considered a “QB whisperer” for nothing. It goes beyond forcing the QB’s make good decisions. His offense is built to make those decisions EASIER. Think the people who don’t really understand how Koetter’s offense was difficult to execute at a high level with any consistency will find themselves surprised when Jameis settles into this new system and suddenly appears like a better decision maker.