Embarrassing Ranking For Jameis
June 24th, 2019
An analyst and ex-Buccaneer that Joe respects a great deal, a guy who has been pro-Jameis Winston for years, now sees America’s Quarterback as a true bottom-tier QB with a chance to turn things around.
Joe’s talking about Chris Simms, the former Bucs QB who gave his spleen in the line of duty at the Stadium on Dale Mabry Highway.
Simms is a fantastic analyst now for NBC Sports and his spring/summer quarterback detailed ranking exercise puts Jameis as the 27th best NFL quarterback last week.
Joe has shared that Simms still sees all the upside in Jameis. Twice this offseason Joe has had private chats with Simms about Jameis and he’s been consistent in his assessment. But now comparing Jameis to the rest of the league, well, the Bucs’ face of the franchise came up wedged between Andy Dalton (26) and Case Keenum (28).
Joe wonders what Team Glazer thinks when they read a pro-Bucs analyst like Simms, a guy who has long been in Jameis’ corner, rate their QB near the league basement.
First, Joe would rank Jameis near the middle of the pack of NFL starters, maybe 17th, but certainly not anywhere near 27th. Second, Team Glazer lives in the now and knows very well that Jameis’ team of four QB coaches with well over 100 years of experience have the skills to lead Jameis to the on-field consistency he’s lacked.
But what will “the now” look like for Team Glazer in January? If Jameis’ play is status quo, that might lead the guys at the top to desire a new course for the pirate ship.
June 24th, 2019 at 5:14 am
Precisely why I have taken the position I have since November 2017. He’s average (middle) in the pack of starting QBs (at best) after four full seasons, and the rest of the baggage makes it not worth spending more time and effort trying to make something of him that he’s not (he was brought here to be the face of the franchise, win games, get fans excited again). He knows the right answers but does what he wants to do. And I don’t think you fix that around three, and don’t think he recovers from the angst he caused his owners, coaches, fans, and community. He’s probably the last remaining stain on what has amounted to misery.
June 24th, 2019 at 5:15 am
^^^around “here”
June 24th, 2019 at 5:39 am
Great article. The path to greatness (Superbowl Victory) is extremely difficult to achieve. One of the many factors required is a quarterback that makes the best decisions in the tightest moments.
I’m done nitpicking stats on whether or not Jamies has it or not.
He needs to show it for the entire 2019 season. Period.
No throwing the ball up for grabs your to n the end zone (see Hard knocks example). No shoving other players when you aren’t even on the field. No Joe Cocker scramble then fumbles.
Every year he ends up shooting himself in the foot with stupidity.
Its time for him to perform on the field of play. No more excuses.
In BA I Trust!
June 24th, 2019 at 6:08 am
I’d put him in the 25-30 range so this is accurate as you just don’t know what Jameis your gonna get each week. He has stretches of brilliant play with great throws and moving the offense then he will look lost for a few series.
After 50 starts there shouldn’t be this many questions about his game still. He shouldn’t be getting out played by a journey man QB. He shouldn’t go winless on the road in nearly 2 years. He should know his limitations and not continually force throws that aren’t there. He should know how to protect the ball after this much experience.
For a player who was drafted with a high football IQ he plays stupid football
Now let’s gets ready for FSU fans masquerading as Buc fans to bash Simms and give excuses for Jameis…
June 24th, 2019 at 6:16 am
@Magadude … “He (Jameis) knows the right answers but does what he wants to do”. Kinda painting Jameis with a broad brush there Magadude? If it was true that ‘He does what he wants to do” he would’ve been gone after 1 season. No HC or OC would tolerate his QB consistently doing that.
Fact is that Jameis has moved the ball quite well through the air. You don’t accomplish that by ‘doing your own thing’. No, Jameis’ problems are multi-dimensional. Of the things that he COULD CONTROL (no, he can’t control how well the defense does, or how well the RBs run, or OC play selection), Jameis has shown a propensity to do certain things that don’t always turn out well (understatement?).
For instance, he tends to ‘stare down’ receivers too much IMO (a good way to get them axed). He has the occasional brain phart (some of his decisions must’ve had Koetter asking himself ‘What the he11 was that?”). His accuracy on certain types of passes is sometimes circumspect (not just deep passes either … he seems to have difficulty sometimes hitting receivers in stride).
This is a ‘do-or-die’ year for Jameis, in terms of his career with the Bucs at least. Personally I think the odds favor him doing quite well BECAUSE OF the change in coaching. In the 1 year that Koetter was just the OC (2015), rookie QB Jameis did reasonably well. Yes it was a losing season, but Jameis the rookie threw for over 4,000 yds & the offense as a whole was quite balanced (we just did a lousy job of scoring). Once Koetter became dual-hatted as HC & OC, things went downhill IMO, for BOTH Jameis & the TEAM. The talent’s still there though, and I’m confident that BA & his staff will put Jameis in positions that he can excel in. Only time will tell though.
June 24th, 2019 at 7:01 am
@DR…I’d think you know better. It has been public that Jameis knows the right asnswers but does what he wants to do (if he agrees with the person/body of authority, then fine…if not…here he is), and that’s on and off the field. I didn’t say he ALWAYS does it, but it’s enough to draw the ire of his coaches et al. Ignoring the play sent in, making clearly dangerous throws after he was told when too much is too much…just as public examples. And there is the whole list of off field stuff that goes to back to college, maybe farther, I don’t know. I don’t disagree with you on pretty much the rest of what you said. Clearly he wants to do well, be a leader, be the best, works the hardest at footbal (which is the ONLY reason why he’s here still), but he’s also a BS artist and that drags the rest down. Period.
June 24th, 2019 at 7:02 am
I’d have to agree with MagaDude . Jameis does do what he wants to do . He often pre determines his target before the play and forces throws to said target. It happens at least once a game with him. Jameis has great whiteboard IQ , but I fear he just isn’t a quick enough thinker to ever be where we need him to be .
June 24th, 2019 at 7:15 am
So Dalton , Eli, marriota, Bortles, The guy from Miami Tanehill, josh Allen, Alex Smith, josh Rosen, Flacco,garapullo, and Watson are better than Jameis. Fake news , please move on.
June 24th, 2019 at 7:29 am
This is a huge year for Jameis. I hope he ascends into a franchise QB.
June 24th, 2019 at 7:30 am
@Defenserules
Well said. If this staff can’t get him to improve on not staring down one option or throwing to a pre determined read often it will help his game a lot
Doing those things gives the d a huge advantage and gets receivers hurt
June 24th, 2019 at 7:32 am
Loyal to the end,
I feel like the presentation/ball placement from the QB goes a long way. I remember a lot of receivers getting blasted for having to come back or lay out for a ball. Oh to be hit in stride.
June 24th, 2019 at 7:37 am
Most of those you’ve mentiond GRT1 are below Jameis. Or at least in the same general area. Aside from Deshaun Watson who Simms sees as a top10 QB.
June 24th, 2019 at 7:38 am
Jameis is still plagued by periods of inconsistency. In earlier years it was the first half. Not so, last year.
In the all the third quarters splits ,Jameis had 0 TD’s and 5 INT’s. He picked it up in the fourth quarter splits where he scored 9 TD’s ,but also had 4 INT’s. A one to one ratio of TD’s to INT’s has to be improved in the second half of games.
Jameis has had two excellent games against the Eagles and Falcons where he played well throughout the entire game.He has had a few other games where
he played well enough to win but also had the defense stiffen in 2016 to get
the wins.
Jameis needs to relax and play the game according to the gameplan. Risk it when Arians says to risk it.
June 24th, 2019 at 7:51 am
@Magadude … “It has been public that Jameis knows the right asnswers but does what he wants to do”. OK, I’ll play. It’s one thing to ‘know the right answers’ sitting in a meeting room, or in practice, or talking to the media, whatever. It’s quite another to ‘put that knowledge into action’ in the heat of battle when the ‘best decision’ has to be made in a split second.
I’ve known lots of pilots in my past profession Magadude who could talk a fantastic game … on the ground … but then you get them in the air in say air combat training and it’s one brain phart after another. And those mistakes prove very costly. Same principle IMO with QBs especially. Making the best decisions in the ‘heat of the battle’ is what differentiates franchise QB from the ‘I came close’ QBs IMO. I believe that Jameis has the ‘tools’ but has lacked the ‘discipline’ to consistently make the ‘best decisions’. I’m HOPEFUL that this is the year, with BA’s coaching, that Jameis develops that ‘discipline’, steps up his game & truly becomes that franchise QB the Bucs so desperately NEED.
June 24th, 2019 at 7:54 am
**Tapping michrophone**….”Is this thing working?”
June 24th, 2019 at 7:55 am
Bob in Valrico … GRRREAT post & observation.
June 24th, 2019 at 7:56 am
The ranking is about right since his QBR for last year ranked him 26th among starting QB’s. When will we ever learn? Time to move on, or wallow in mediocrity (or worse) for years to come.
June 24th, 2019 at 7:58 am
The truth does hurt. Only supports his stats, his wins and losses, and his inability to mature into a MAN. you make a note of over 100 years of QB coaching, those years mean nothing when you have ignorant JW throwing the ball when under pressure. Dumb people panic under pressure and make bad decisions.
June 24th, 2019 at 7:58 am
He was even iffy at putting him at 27, said it might be lower. Said this was the guy who was hardest to place. That certainty suggests a horrible lack of consistency on Jameis’s part, but everyone already knows that.
If Jameis’s play is status quo in January it better lead to a new course. How many more wasted years and dollars?
June 24th, 2019 at 8:02 am
@defenserules: thanks for supporting the facts. Although, it is ignorance when polished professionals crack under pressure. In the wake of the recent college entrance scandal, it make you wonder who took his entrance exams. LOL to the clown out there that thought that he was legitimately accepted to Stanford.
June 24th, 2019 at 8:03 am
I’ve said for over a year
16 to 25 range. Not top 15 yet.
Let’s hope arians changes that.
June 24th, 2019 at 8:18 am
He’s Jay Cutler….Vinny Testervarde….Good enough to start in the league for a long time, with the right combo of a run game and defense, can be effective at making a playoff run….but never going to carry a team consistently.
June 24th, 2019 at 8:19 am
He’s bottom third.
June 24th, 2019 at 8:33 am
I think 27th is a bit too low but 17th is too high. There are easily 20 other QBs I’d take over Jay-Miss. It really doesn’t matter. The thing everyone can agree with is that he’s not a top-tier QB. The thing that everyone needs to remember is that he’s not a real franchise QB. When the Bengals gave Dalton that big money everyone *knew* he was a good QB but not a franchise changing QB. He just happened to be the best QB available. The Bucs cannot make that same mistake. Unless the Bucs see something truly historic, a season for the ages, it’ll be time to let go of #3.
June 24th, 2019 at 9:18 am
Jameis Winston is on the Jim Plunkett career path. Drafted #1 to a bad team and has a losing record for that team. Will be let go because the team sucks and will win on another team when his new team has more talent around him. Jim Plunkett ended up winning 2 SB’s with the Raiders in 1980 and 1983.
Bank on it.
June 24th, 2019 at 9:18 am
Time waits for no man… and this is the NFL…and we know what that stands for…it’s all up to Jameis
June 24th, 2019 at 9:32 am
I realize Jamies has his problems, but if he is ranked 27th and Barber is ranked 32nd how did we finish 3rd in offensive catagory?
June 24th, 2019 at 9:41 am
he’s equal to stafford imo…..
with that being said, no excuses for him this year….
he’s been in the league long enough to know his team and how to win games….if the defense sucks, dont compound things by forcing throws and turning the ball over….
GO BUCS!!!!
June 24th, 2019 at 9:53 am
He hasn’t been “great” but 27th is what you get when your team doesn’t win. Just because chris Simms is respected by the Joe’s doesn’t mean he’s right. This thing has evolved to the point where the media has given other media more credit than they deserve for an opinion it’s nothing more nothing less. He gets paid for his opinion but that doesn’t give it more accuracy.
June 24th, 2019 at 10:11 am
@allbuccedup
Well we ranked 12th in scoring per game on the season (24.8pts/g), but with games where JW started (and finished) we averaged 22.2pts per game good for 21st in the league. I’d say the delta is reflective how how talented the WR & TE’s are
June 24th, 2019 at 10:12 am
@DR, having seen it in the cockpit myself for years as a USAF weapons instructor and flight examiner for five years and line pilot for 12 before that, the worst thing of all is a guy who knows the rules and doesn’t follow them, and when he makes a mistake, tries to hide it. Like over speeding the flaps for an hour and doing his own assessment to say “I think we’re good.” In that business, guys get killed doing that, and kill others. When you catch it, you don’t let them put anyone in the position again. That too in a prior life. Now, in my current profession for all things oganizational development and strategy, some guys can’t physically hurt anyone but will suck your organization and image dry.
June 24th, 2019 at 10:14 am
Jameis could easily be in the upper half if he had a run game, an O-line, and some semblance of a defense. I think Simms rating reflects how putrid the whole team was. Hopefully this season those perceptions get turned around.
June 24th, 2019 at 10:14 am
I hope Jameis rises to the occasion. The excuses are getting long-winded.
I just want my team to win! Is that too much to ask?! It’s been a while.
June 24th, 2019 at 10:41 am
Man, what’s up with that forehead protruberance?
June 24th, 2019 at 10:41 am
Man, what’s up with that forehead protruberance?
Must be all that football genius trying to get out!
June 24th, 2019 at 10:42 am
If you read ESPN’s rankings for 2018 Total QBR, Jameis is #8. All this other talk is just talk. http://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr
June 24th, 2019 at 10:44 am
Defense Rules. Paragraph stating ‘I’ve known lots of pilots…’.
Nailed it!
My biggest fear is he plays well enough in the regular season and reverts back to knuckleheaded decisions in meaningful moments, aka wild card or even playoff football.
Our defense will have to bail him out.
In BA I Trust!
June 24th, 2019 at 10:49 am
Thanks DR
You keep leading the way with your posts . I am so ready for sixty minutes
of Football , Every single one of them is critical to victory, IMO.
June 24th, 2019 at 10:51 am
I hate to say this but I have a feeling that, Jameis is going to be worse with interceptions under this offense.I also think he will get more TD’s then ever before, I could be wrong however the ONLY stat that really matters is win/loss record. If Jameis throws 25 int’s but gets us in playoffs all those “meaning less stats cats” can whine all they want because WINNING TRUMPS everything!
June 24th, 2019 at 11:13 am
I have him at 23rd
If tua came out this year he would be top 15
June 24th, 2019 at 11:36 am
Bingo DR….baby steps….PLAY like Brad Johnson….take the first positive thing you see and watch the rest of what happened on that play that might have been better…the time will come again and then hit it !
June 24th, 2019 at 11:56 am
Hes a coach killer! Hes the type of QB that has physical talents and the Owners fall in love with but finds ways to lose games and keep getting people fired. This organization has done EVBERYTHING to try to make Jameis look good. Loaded up on big targets, fired Lovie one year after drafting Jameis to promote Koetter. Fired Koetter. Hired BA out of retirement to try to fix Jameis. Its not Jameis’s IQ that’s the problem. He knows all the corny crap to say in the classrooms but doesnt do it on Sundays. While the GM has been gushing over his QB he neglected the defense and O-line. Our team is in cap hell with mediocre talent and NO DEPTH!!!. We are just prolonging the agony by thinking you can change Winstons nature. Plus he is not marketable because of his off field crap. Raymond James made the Bucs take the Banner down because he was an embarrassment to the company name. Total BUST of a pick.
June 24th, 2019 at 11:58 am
Where did he rank Josh McCown & Fitzmajic? 27a & 28th?
I also just read that Scam Newton is set to make 16 mil in 2019. Are we really giving #3 twice as much in 7 months?
June 24th, 2019 at 12:54 pm
@Magadude … ” the worst thing of all is a guy who knows the rules and doesn’t follow them, and when he makes a mistake, tries to hide it.”
Agree with you about those who know the rules but blatantly disregard them, but in my years of flying fighters it was almost impossible for guys to hide mistakes. Almost all my time was in 2-seat fighters for one thing, and for another virtually everything was filmed (gunsight) & audio recorded (especially at Red Flag out at Nellis). Plus guys knew that it took total honesty to learn from their mistakes. BSers didn’t last long.
I imagine that it’s the same thing with pro football players. Everything’s filmed and scrutinized to the nth degree by coaches nowadays & the ‘tape don’t lie’ as they say. Ultimately PERFORMANCE is what counts, and any coach who violates that rule probably doesn’t last too very long.
June 24th, 2019 at 1:08 pm
@DR, Crew aircraft (special operations) here with officers and enlisted both…what we called in CRM instruction a “steep cockpit gradient” could be bad…experienced senior AC with young CP, and junior rank rest of crew. Even worse if you had a dishonest ops officer or commander at group or squadron level flying. Thank god it was extremely rare. BSers and cheaters would usually get busted, but not always right away. In today’s world…aviation and football, no doubt harder to not get caught when faltering.
June 24th, 2019 at 1:21 pm
Looking at his current rankings, it is a joke. There are a lot of holes in his rankings. Flacco higher than Lamar, but Lamar beat him out of his job in Baltimore. Rookies who haven’t even taken a snap are ranked in the low 20s. Brees isn’t ranked in top 3 or 5. Can’t take it seriously.
June 24th, 2019 at 3:30 pm
Magadude … A good friend of mine who lives just down the street from me here in Valrico flew the Spec Ops birds for his whole career too. I escorted many AC-130s in night operations too many years ago to count when I flew with the 497th TFS Night Owls. Actually got a chance to fly on one of the first AC-130s fitted with the 105 gun … that was ‘interesting’ to say the least.
No doubt you’re right about today; much harder to get away with anything nowadays. Everything is so highly documented and analyzed. There’s good news in there though I think … quality coaches who know how to use that information SHOULD be able to get players better prepared for any eventuality on game days. With what BA & TB have been doing along those lines since they were hired, I’m expecting to see much improved play on the field each game. Whether better coaching & preparation is enough to overcome this team’s inexperience in so many key positions remains to be seen (at least for the short term).
June 24th, 2019 at 3:42 pm
Wasn’t gunships myself…Talons, Shadows, Slicks, and Kings. The guships were scary indeed, and the H models, and probably later now Js are very capable.
I expect it to get better every week too. Just hope it doesn’t start so slow the season is over by the time we get to Halloween….agaiin.
June 24th, 2019 at 4:38 pm
Simms is not to far off. I got Winston somewheres around 20 to 22.
June 24th, 2019 at 4:52 pm
what’s more embarrassing is latching onto a low grade qb, after 4 years, in hopes of him miraculously waking up to being a top tier qb…
Easily 25 better than him… More importantly all 3 in the same division far surpass this guy!
June 24th, 2019 at 5:01 pm
I jumped out of a C -130 and on my first flight in VN ,passenger, made an emergency landing 30 minutes after takeoff, almost over before it started;-)
June 24th, 2019 at 6:09 pm
Altered…man, not a good intro to the Herk at all.
June 24th, 2019 at 6:42 pm
Altered … Can’t understand why anyone would jump out of a perfectly good aircraft. it flew for a whole 30 minutes.
June 24th, 2019 at 6:42 pm
Cool story Simms, thanks for sharing bro.
Anywho if you’re still looking for a good deal on a used spleen shoot over a DM.
Word to your mother.
June 24th, 2019 at 6:52 pm
Defense,
You mention , correctly I might add, Winston’s habit of staring down his receivers. This is an issue that gets mentioned but, imo, rarely gets the attention it deserves.
I don’t expect but a very to know this fact but once you understand , it should be enlightening and provide the proper context in which to understand the magnitude of the problem.
In DK’S pffense the QB’S responsible for understanding where the receiver will break on a specific route vs the coverage . His job is to anticipate that route and throw the ball to a spot. A spot on which the receiver will be. By staring down a receiver Winston is not by defintion operating the system as designed.
Hes obviously trying to throw completions to that specific receiver.
(In anticipation of the predictable dunce reply, “obviously He’s trying to throw completions” ) That’s not what the scheme dictates. And by tracking a reciever, I’m employing a term you and Maga are familiar with, this results in target fixation. And this manifests itself in a very visible fashion, the ball being behind or lagging to the target. Another symptom that isn’t as visible to the home based fan is target fixation results in to many open routes going unseen and therefore never utilized.
In summary, lots of attention is focused on the defense giving up too many points forcing a situation where the team is operating in a deficit. Not going to argue with that observation. But what’s missed is the opportunities that go untaken and are missed because they’re never seen. Often these missed plays would result in touch downs.
There’s been a few posts that point to the disparity that exists in yds gain and points scored. With limited knowledge of the scheme and even less on the ability to recognize route concepts and identify open receivers, it’s understandable that the obvious choice for what is the issue reverts back to the scheme. Basically, it’s assigning responsibility to an area that’s fuzzy and not well defined but it seems clear because there’s little opposition and there’s a large consensus on that being the source. But if you’re aware of the dozen or more opportunities for a big play, probably 6pts , that have gone unheeded resulting in points left on the field it should point to the most influential and most likely source. That source is the QB.
Btw, I’m not making this about winston it’s about winston and his fit within DK’S scheme. Which I believe was a imperfect fit from the start. Unfortunately, BA runs a similar system that will require winston to improve in areas that have already been proven to be problematic. I have no doubt that BA will adjust to and hide certain things that have been troublesome in the past but that’s not the same thing as placing winston in a system that plays to his strengths by design. I believe that a West coast offense would be a better fit for winston. He’s had success in that style but it’s not what’s coming up in the future. So the weight of improving is heavily balanced to winston. And his current team of coaches. A few of whom I believe we’re with Ivan Drago in the former Soviet Union.
June 24th, 2019 at 6:59 pm
Sorry if I didn’t make myself clear… two separate deals… I jumped out of a C -130 Airborne training… then in my first flight in VN taking me from Saigon to Danang the C-130 I was flying in lost 2 engines and made a emergency landing
June 24th, 2019 at 7:17 pm
Defense,
It’s not jumping! It’s the aircraft purging those who are unworthy.
June 24th, 2019 at 8:01 pm
I’m not JW’s biggest fan but Simms is off the mark. Seriously, Simms was garbage as a Buc QB. Suck doesn’t begin to describe him and he has no business ranking any QB’s based on his own NFL career
June 24th, 2019 at 8:17 pm
Whatever ever it is with Jameis and throwing the football it is not getting better… forget about all else, running game, defense… it is all about the chances he has dropping back to pass
June 24th, 2019 at 9:00 pm
JW is a salvage project at this point
June 25th, 2019 at 1:42 am
Bigmacattack,
If Chris Simms Isnt qualified to rank QB’S, you damn sure have zero business commenting on the subject.
June 25th, 2019 at 10:01 am
The world sees JW one way and Joe sees it different. Just like politics, joe, tough to change someone’s mindset once it is established.
June 25th, 2019 at 7:48 pm
How come Payton had 88 interceptions and never got criticized for it or ESPN and other networks never called him trash or saying they need to move on from him . But Jamies with 58 it’s time to move on and forget patients. Elie was trash and still trash the Giants didn’t win nothing with him without a defense and running game. But Jamies never had any of that but we need to cut him and he should still win the super bowl or be a hall of fame quarterback by now ??? I’m ready for Jamies to leave this trash fan base and franchise cause it don’t matter who you draft or get if your team suck you are going to lose.