Will Teams Ever Tell A Starting QB To Test The Market?
May 12th, 2019
As salaries for franchise quarterbacks and decent starting QBs continue to explode, eventually teams will have to explore more seriously whether it’s worth it.
America’s Quarterback, Jameis Winston, is in the final year of his contract and you haven’t heard a peep or a hint from the Bucs that they have begun talking with Jameis’ team about a new contract.
Former Bucs QB Chris Simms, now an analyst for NBC Sports, agrees with his co-host, Mike Florio of ProFootballTalk.com, that teams my start drawing a line in the sand as salaries soar past $30 million per season.
Simms has one big criteria to define a quality QB.
“What I always look at for a franchise quarterback is not always, hey, of course the intangibles are important, but the ability to carry the football team when the team not playing up to its capabilities or you have injuries,” said Simms, using Dak Prescott as a positive example for his play in the second half of last season.
As for Marcus Mariota, Simms said he doesn’t see much more than an athlete who also is a QB and he doubts Mariota will earn a long term deal. Jameis? Well, Simms says the table is set beautifully for Jameis with Bucco Bruce Arians and a host of weapons around him.
“But gosh, I got to see it to believe it, on and off the field and everything that goes with it,” Simms said.
Florio adds that Jameis has a “defect” that drives him attempt things on the field that he just can’t do.
“I don’t think Bruce Arians coaches that out of him,” Florio said.
Big decision ahead for Team Glazer. Even if they choose to slap the franchise tag on Jameis next year, which could amount to a $9 million raise and a $30 million salary, that would have serious roster ramifications for 2020 and beyond.
You can hear Simms and Florio dive into the subject below:
May 12th, 2019 at 5:16 am
Personally don’t think there’s a QB in the NFL who’s worth $30 mil, at a time when the salary Cap sits at around $190 mil. Paying Jameis $30 mil, ME13 $20 mil, Donovan $12 mil, JPP $15 mil, GMC $13 mil and LVD $10 mil means that you’d be paying 6 players … roughly 10% of your team … well OVER 50% of your entire salary Cap. In what business model could that even remotely make sense?
The current salary structure will ultimately destroy the NFL IMO if it’s allowed to continue. Games used to be affordable by the average fan. No longer. It’s become much more about corporate sponsorships and TV revenue, and much less about the average fan experience. Somehow, some way the NFL needs to return to its roots. And that’ll require getting a better handle on salaries’ inflation I would think.
May 12th, 2019 at 5:49 am
Interesting take on the QB issues facing teams. Having both Mike Evans and Jameis with big contracts in the near future will affect the teams ability to fill other holes and sign new players to fill them, IMO. I believe the infusion of young talent on defense will start to point this side of the ball in the right direction. The O line is suspect and if there is any quality depth on the team ,they have yet to show up. It was impressive that the patriots had enough depth that they could also field a run blocking O line to take over the game and milk the time clock in the super bowl.
May 12th, 2019 at 6:10 am
Meanwhile, Tom Brady is playing for $15MM.
May 12th, 2019 at 6:24 am
Agree 100%, DR. Current player contract sets teams and ownership up for failure, in IMO. Too many player don’t develop fast enough with the current
training camp restrictions on contact practices. If a team does succeed in in developing a player by the time their second contract,the salary cap structure
often prevents them from being resigned.
Sadly, there may be a impasse the next cotract, Too many teams are mediocre
or worse and not enough teams have found a way to succeed with current
salaries and cap issues.
May 12th, 2019 at 6:34 am
Good football teams are successful with smart “game managers.” See Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson–although they are extreme examples (as Super Bowl winners), many many competitive teams have been fielded with average quarterbacks.
The salary structure in the NFL is driven by league revenue, so as long as revenues are that high, salaries will follow. Whether or not the QB compensation is equitable is really for the players and teams to decide, but Brady in New England is an example of a QB who could be making a good bit more money if he didn’t prioritize winning over personal enrichment.
With television revenues so high, it does seem like smaller market teams could make the stadium experience affordable for more families if they really cared that much about filling the stadiums. On the other hand, they seem to be at the point of driving Christian families away with the trend toward pushing this Babylonian worldview of gender confusion.
May 12th, 2019 at 6:49 am
Why should there be a peep from the Bucs? Winston hasn’t earned a second contract or a big payday. Let’s see what his 5th season brings with all of this coaching talent. Then maybe he will have something to discuss with the Bucs.
The “Best” QB in Buccaneers history isn’t even on track to make the Ring of Honor.
May 12th, 2019 at 6:51 am
Wow! It’s early Sunday morning and the four posts ahead of me (by three people) make perfect sense–especially when the article’s title dangles hater bait. Good job guys! And good points!
I fully expected to read something inexcusably predictable like, “the QB market will be tested next year after Jameis falls flat on his face.”
Guess after hating all day Saturday, extra sleep is required on Sunday to recharge the torpid state of the overworked brain … Hating all day-every day must be an exhausting endeavor.
May 12th, 2019 at 7:01 am
Concur Bob that the current CBA sets most teams up for failure. A few successful teams, like the Pats, have figured out how to use it to their advantage though. Bottom-feeders like our beloved Bucs, end up either feeding the more successful teams OR over-paying to retain the talent that they developed. Lose-Lose no matter how you cut it in the case of teams like the Bucs.
A big part of it though comes down to drafting reasonably well and developing players reasonably quickly so that many are productive in their early years. Bucs have to do better along those lines. Personally I think the key is for us to get off the coaching carousel. With son] me stability there, player development SHOULD improve.
May 12th, 2019 at 7:12 am
should have drafted someone in case Winston fails (2nd rounder) we do not need an average/good quarterback making elite money next year ,I almost hope he does fail, then we dont have to pay him big money that can be used for other issues,draft a rookie and see if we can get someone that has a chance to become a good/ great quarterback.
May 12th, 2019 at 7:20 am
Seems “moderation” killed my point.
They’re awake!
May 12th, 2019 at 7:37 am
The best bang for the buck in the NFL is drafting a qB in the 1st round and rolling with him for 5 years….after that either you know without ANY Doubt ! that you have a franchise QB……….or you go back to the best bang for the buck…IMO…
No Fools Gold for me….
May 12th, 2019 at 8:12 am
It wont shock me to see the Bucs attempt to extend Winston this season….although I think a guy like Winston would be smart to play the franchise tag game. Cousins has proven the only way to get max value for a mid-tier starting QB is to hit free agency. Winston may want to see what comes from the next CBA and he may be a tad bitter over how he was dethrowned from Ray Jay after the uber incident surfaced. He’s got minimal opportunity in this area for endorsements due to his history, a new market with a bigger city might net him a lot more both financially and image wise.
May 12th, 2019 at 8:52 am
I wonder if Winston would be willing to be paid like Brady. Team Player and all.
May 12th, 2019 at 9:00 am
I believe more teams will follow the Rams. Build a strong defense and find a cheap young QB in the draft if your able. This gives you a 4-5 year window to spend the extra $15-20 million on a few more elite players. Unfortunately our window with Winston has past and we only had one decent season to show for it and zero playoff appearances.
May 12th, 2019 at 9:02 am
Lose-Lose situation… if he does well this year, he will get monster money and leave. If he stinks (in a contract year), we’ll be stuck with him for years because the Bucs will re-sign him for $20/yr and think it’s a bargain.
May 12th, 2019 at 9:06 am
Whenever I read a national story that includes Jameis Winston’s QB performance, the comments from the fans nationally always seem about 80-90% negative about him.
Even in the Tampa Bay market, the fanbase is, at best, divided in their opinion, and seems, at best, perhaps 60% favorable, with the rest “hoping for the best”, or definitely unfavorable. These numbers are probably generous, frankly.
These percentages are certainly only my estimates, and most certainly not scientific, but if you want to get a real idea of just how Winston is viewed around the league, just read some of the comments about him on other sites. If you are really brave, sign in and suggest that those teams trade their young franchise QB for Winston, and you can report back the numbers you get.
tickrdr
May 12th, 2019 at 9:06 am
I love the Bucs, they are and always will be my first priority when it comes to football. But there is like .00000001% of me that wants to see Jameis leave and actually play on a complete TEAM to shut all the morons up that claim to understand football. Heck not just fans the bias media as well. I just hope it happens here first cause it is more than clear the issues here aren’t him, it’s just people hate him so much they won’t let themselves see or believe it, that goes for fans and media alike. But the good news is time will tell, it always does.
May 12th, 2019 at 9:20 am
forget qb salaries, imagine what the NFL thinks of having to carry this small market minor league franchise every year. you think the big market high revenue teams enjoy carrying this joke of a franchise year in and year out. bucs bring nothing to the nfl table but a vacation spot for visiting fans and jerry springger moments… the only benefit the big markets teams have with tamapa in league is an easy win each year. revenue sharing is just a polite way of calling it league handouts and charity. bucs are the welfare babies of the nfl just without hearts.
May 12th, 2019 at 9:38 am
Ndog Says:
May 12th, 2019 at 9:06 am
I love the Bucs, they are and always will be my first priority when it comes to football. But there is like .00000001% of me that wants to see Jameis leave and actually play on a complete TEAM to shut all the morons
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NDog…..you have an opinion like everyone else….your hope’n and a wish’n does not make it fact….after 4 years Jameis still has not proved he is ,forget elite, not even a top 10 QB…he is not a gunslinger, if he was he’d be in Boot Hill…he has in inaccurate and throws WAY too many turnovers…much of his stats come when the opponents are packing the gear in rolling equipment containers……”There Ain’t No Hope in Football”…that said I hope he can finally play contoled football and win games as a true team leader
May 12th, 2019 at 9:47 am
Tua
May 12th, 2019 at 9:49 am
It’s not that I don’t want to see him go. It’s just that his erratic style of play is difficult to watch. He is not a winning quarterback. Or at least he hasn’t been…yet. According to the coaches they have a good offence with a strong RB along with a greatly improved defence and kicker. Based on that I think they give him one more year to show that he has improved and can lead the team.
Personally I believe our offence has regressed, our defence still won’t put any pressure on the qb, and Winston will still be as careless when it comes to protecting the football. However, I also believe Licht is the worst GM in history so a contract extension with a big raise is possible
May 12th, 2019 at 9:59 am
Can’t overpay an average qb who is helping other teams win games
May 12th, 2019 at 10:11 am
@Todd, great point about Tom Brady. He’s ended up make more money in the long run setting the example for the team. The Patriot model works because they win and win and win and players want that.
May 12th, 2019 at 10:30 am
There’s a lot of talk, and might gain traction, that owners will request a “one player salary exemption” in the next CBA negotiations, much like the NBA has now I believe.
Allowing each team to subtract out the total cap hit for any one player from the team cap, every year. Basically allowing owners to pay one player ridiculously (most assume that to be the QB making most money on team), and not have it affect the cap.
Can’t imagine the NFLPA would object to that. Allows any one star player to get higher and higher amounts every year, and not at the expense of the other players on the team. That’s basically the NFLPA’s…job.
May 12th, 2019 at 10:31 am
@Todd and bigmack Tom Brady can take a whole lot less money because his wife makes a crap ton of money. Let’s not think Tom is giving rhen a break. He can afford to,hes said it himself.
May 12th, 2019 at 10:57 am
Winston is labeled “defective” and Joe doesn’t argue. Interesting, indeed.
May 12th, 2019 at 11:09 am
[KNOCK IT OFF! If Joe really had some vendetta against you you’d never be able to post a comment again. You think Joe enjoys digging through the moderation queue 24/7 approving comments for reasons unknown that wind up in moderation? — Joe]
May 12th, 2019 at 11:11 am
The three best baseball players in the world barely make 30 mil a year…only player worth that money is Russ and Brady.
May 12th, 2019 at 11:26 am
Let’s just tell the truth ok . Jamies is a black quarterback and we all know that black quarterbacks have to win even when they’re team around them is bad . The national media feels that way and local as well. Jamies plays on a bottom ranked defense in every category and a bottom ranked running game and running backs. But none of that matters when it comes to black quarterbacks the team still better win or it’s their fault when the team lose. Murray will get all the blame why his team lose. Elie was trash his first his first 5 or 6 years in the league and still never been a great quarterback. When Andrew Luck team suck it was the team not him according to the national media.
May 12th, 2019 at 11:32 am
Oneilbucs Says:
May 12th, 2019 at 11:26 am
Let’s just tell the truth ok . Jamies is a black quarterback
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stick a sock it the stupidest defense of all…..this ain’t the 1960’s …….SMF’n head !
May 12th, 2019 at 12:24 pm
@Oneilbucs … “Let’s just tell the truth ok . Jamies is a black quarterback and we all know that black quarterbacks have to win even when they’re team around them is bad.
That statement right there shows your prejudice Oneil. Not only that, but it denigrates Jameis’ abilities because it’s saying that no matter how good Jameis is now or might become, it’s irrelevant because without a strong team around him, he’ll never be considered to be any good. Not to mention that folks who play the race card IMO belittle everyone playing the game.
May 12th, 2019 at 12:29 pm
Test the market? I expect the Bucs will tell Jay Miss next year, “don’t let the door hit you in the a*s!”
May 12th, 2019 at 1:03 pm
This is essentially what we “haters” have been saying. These huge salaries for even the most elite quarterbacks can harm or cripple their team’s ability to build and still don’t guarantee wins or Super Bowls. (See Ravens, Packers, MN.) Huge contracts to average or below average quarterbacks is a near ridiculous idea. Huge contracts to average or below average quarterbacks on a bad, cash-strapped team is cerebrally deficient, in the highest order!
Q: How many more losses would this team have with a top rated rookie quarterback vs. #3? 1,2 tops?
Can’t we lose just fine with a young, affordable QB with promise, and possibly more talent, while we are able to build our roster? Yup!
I’m all but positive that it was Bill Walsh who said that the two most important qualities a QB must have are accuracy and intelligence! Ugh-oh!?
Unless #3 goes all-world in 2019, they MUST draft a QB from the rich QB class of 2020!
May 12th, 2019 at 1:13 pm
The current NFL tv contracts pay each team approximately $200 million per year – that doesn’t include local radio, merchandising, tickets , parking or concessions.
Until or unless NFL expands or is charged with being an illegal anti trust monopoly (won’t happen- Congress is bought off), salaries and ticket prices will keep going up –
Owners will probably do what Rays are doing when attendance drops –
Start tarping part of the stands
May 12th, 2019 at 1:17 pm
As for Jameis – if he has a good year, Bucs will re-sign him long term.
If he doesn’t, I wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up with Cowboys if Prescott doesn’t get a long term deal
May 12th, 2019 at 1:36 pm
I am so tired of this discussion, you people just don’t understand football at all. Bye bye until something news worthy actually happens.
May 12th, 2019 at 1:45 pm
The best QB in the NFL is Tom Brady. He takes a smaller salary so that his team can afford other good players. Then the Patriots have sense enough to allow their players to enter free agency so that they get extra draft picks. The Patriots always trade back and get lots of picks that they can sign to 4 year contracts. Again this keeps the salaries down and allows them to keep their players around long enough to learn the positions and compete. Look at College Football. You don’t see the players really perform great until their 3rd and 4th years. When teams start to realize this is how you build a team and keep salaries down then you will start to see winning consistently. A few years ago the Browns were so bad but they started getting a lot of draft picks and are building their team properly now. I bet they make the playoffs this year. I’m hoping that the Bucs will start copying this model. If Jameis wants to win he won’t ask for 30 million a year and take some pointers from Tom Brady. Less salary means better players around you. As always Go Bucs.
May 12th, 2019 at 2:32 pm
@Ndog – many people here that don’t like Winston’s mediocre career so far know football very well. He has played well at times but also has played terrible at times. He’s very inconsistent and you can’t always blame that on the rest of the team. His poor decision-making and inaccurate throws are all on him.
@Oneilbucs – how many times are you going to post some sort of ‘racist’ conspiracy against Winston? I think I’ve seen you post stuff like this many times now over the past few months.
I can’t stand Winston. I think he kinda sucks and is overhyped. I think he makes bad decisions (just like he made at FSU but was able to hide due to their dominant team). But I can assure you, it has nothing to do with race.
I loved Doug Williams and forever hold a grudge against Culverhouse for not treating him better and paying him more money to keep him a Buc. I also strongly rooted for Shaun King during his days as the Bucs QB.
Get over this ‘racist’ conspiracy theory about why people don’t like Winston. People don’t like Winston because he’s been inconsistent on the field and an absolute MORON off the field (multiple times).
May 12th, 2019 at 2:51 pm
Race card is another way of denying the truth. Have Jamies ever had a good defense no have Jamies ever had a good running game no so how is he supposed to be great or a super bowl quarterback?
May 12th, 2019 at 3:02 pm
Buc bandit and yall still ran both of them out of town. Why when someone tells the truth about the national media yall gets mad ? If Jamies had a good defense and running game then I will agree with all of yall haters but he never had a good team around him. But again how do Elie gets passes and Andrew Luck gets passes for bad teams and Jamies don’t with the national media?
May 12th, 2019 at 3:05 pm
2021 Dump Winston and move up for Trevor Lawrence.
May 12th, 2019 at 3:14 pm
@Oneilbucs their not racists they just know nothing about football and expect QBs to be perfect regardless of circumstances, cause they are clueless.
May 12th, 2019 at 3:15 pm
Don’t give me this “All you need is a game manager” junk.
That’s what Bucs fans said for decades and it only worked for us once (Johnson) for one season.
Jameis isn’t perfect, but he is the first QB we’ve had who has made the offense exciting to watch.
May 12th, 2019 at 4:00 pm
Does Brady do this out of the kindness of his heart, or the fact that he knows he doesn’t need the money because his wife is far richer than he is?
Drew Brees is a better quarterback and he doesn’t give the Saints a break at all.
(It wouldn’t surprise Joe one bit if shady Belicheat and creepy Bob Kraft set up some type of slush fund in the Caymans so Brady had some side action.)
May 12th, 2019 at 4:22 pm
[Suggesting any Bucs player committed a felony can and will get you run. Right now Joe is in a good mood so you get a mulligan. Don’t cross this bridge again. — Joe]
May 12th, 2019 at 5:27 pm
Ndog made be for some of them. But for some of them it is. I’ve never bought into the quarterback position is the most important. Every team that has won or made the playoffs all has a good or decent team. The hold race thing has always been a problem with the national media and its never going to change. I don’t care about what color the quarterback is if he’s good than I don’t take nothing away from him regardless the color. I just see how most of the national media not all treats Russell Wilson . They say it was more of the defense and running game for wining but for Rogers it was all him for Elie it was all him and everyone know that they won despite of Elie. I think right now Wilson is the best quarterback in the NFL. Now I know that’s not the political correct thing to say . And it’s not cause he’s black. But I will pick him over any quarterback in the NFL.
May 12th, 2019 at 6:04 pm
This year is perfectly set up for #3 to take the next step the ball is in his court it’s his choice if he does or not but I think it’s interesting that TB12 is only making 15m a year an he’s the best in the league wish #3 would go that way if he has a great year an doesn’t try to break the bank
May 12th, 2019 at 6:32 pm
Ndog … Looks like the current atmosphere of JBF.com negativism is getting to you. Some on this site who don’t really appreciate professional football for its ‘sophistication’ shall we say, but there are also many who do. Personally I try to pay attention to the ones who do & ignore the ones who just babble on. Usually works … until I find myself babbling on. Hang tough & stay with us. This is gonna be an interesting season.
Oneilbucs … Interesting take on Russell Wilson to me, because I’ve never really thought of him as being either a black or a white QB. More significantly though, I can’t ever remember anyone, besides you that is, referring to him as a black QB. He’s just a very good QB, for the Seattle Seahawks because he’s ONE key piece of their puzzle. That’s what good GMs do IMO … they fit the various TEAM pieces together so that they all complement each other.
Joe … “It wouldn’t surprise Joe one bit if shady Belicheat and creepy Bob Kraft set up some type of slush fund in the Caymans so Brady had some side action.” I’m surprised Joe. Taking the conspiracy theories a little too far, aren’t you?
May 12th, 2019 at 6:55 pm
Any way you look at it, It is time to move on from jw3!!!!!!!!! a below avg Qb getting paid top dollar will never win anything in this league!!!!!!! And if you are one that thinks that jw3 just needs a top running game and top defense to drag him to meaningful games, then the bucs need to move on from jw3 to get a comp pick to start building that team!!!!!!!
jw3 was exposed as not the leader he was billed to be, and this year will expose why the bucs need to move on from jw3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2019 will reveal answers to the sheep, that the “real” fans already know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Go Bucs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
May 12th, 2019 at 8:44 pm
@O’Neil —
Here’s the answer to your question:
Andrew Luck was a winning quarterback from the time that he came into the League. IIRC he led a bad Colts team to the playoffs his first year. He made that team a contender for several more seasons, being stopped by Brady (remember DeflateGate). Nevertheless he was roundly criticized for failing to get the organization “over the hump.” He earned the public confidence in a career almost cut short by injury — by outstanding winning performance on the field. Your argument is crappy, quite apart from being racist.
I speak as a Jameis supporter. Jameis’ career is inferior to Luck’s. So far. Bucs fans keep hoping.
BTW it is always a good day when we hear from TickrDr.
May 12th, 2019 at 8:57 pm
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if there is a push for a player salary cap in the next CBA. If it comes to that, I would also expect the QB cap to be a little higher than the other positions. Something around $23-26M for quarterback salary and $12-16 as the max for any other position. But,I highly doubt the NFLPA would agree to sign such a deal.
May 12th, 2019 at 9:46 pm
@Oneilbucs – Winston’s never had a running game? In his first season Doug Martin rushed for 1,400+ yards and had another 270+ in receiving yards. NO RUNNING GAME? Winston won *6* games that entire season.
And your ‘media hates black QBs’ doesn’t hold water. The hottest QB in the NFL by media & fan standards today (and 99% of comments/coverage is all positive) is one PATRICK MAHOMES. A black QB.
May 12th, 2019 at 9:51 pm
In simplest terms:
really good qbs are hard if not impossible to replace…
mediocre qbs are not rare so they’re replaceable…
Winston is NOT really good so therefore replaceable!
May 12th, 2019 at 9:52 pm
@Oneilbucs – oh and as for Eli Manning…
Eli Manning didn’t have a single losing season in his first EIGHT full season in the league. That’s right, 8 seasons in a row of 8-8 or better.
In 3 of Eli’s first 4 seasons in the NFL (similar to Winston’s career length so far) Eli has seasons of 8, 10, 11, and 12 wins. A total of *41* wins. In Winston’s 4-year career he has had a total of *21* wins.
Eli: 41
Winston: 21
AND Winston has had off-the-field issues on top of that.
Tell me again how Eli got a pass for his “poor play” because he’s white? He also has TWO SUPER BOWL RINGS!
May 12th, 2019 at 9:54 pm
@Oneilbucs – and I don’t think Wilson is the best QB in the NFL right now. I think it may be Mahomes…a… wait for it… black QB.
May 13th, 2019 at 9:05 am
@Lou:
Just saw this today.
Thank you and a hat tip to you, sir!
tickrdr
May 13th, 2019 at 11:12 am
If Mchomes have 1 bad game or 2 they will do him like they did Dak. Buc bandit Elie had over a 100 turnovers his first 4 years. It took the Giants 5 or 6 years just to make the playoffs with Elie. But no one ever said that about Elie and his turnovers but Jamies it’s a problem and Jamies had less but what’s the difference between him and Elie. One is white and other is black. How many excuses did and still Elie gets from the national media. Jamies never gets excuses like that.
May 13th, 2019 at 2:35 pm
ONEILBUCS – where do you get your NFL stats? LOL.
“It took the Giants 5 or 6 years just to make the playoffs with Eli…”
HUH???
Eli Manning took the Giants to the playoffs… EVERY YEAR FOR HIS FIRST FOUR YEARS.
Let me repeat that…
Manning took the Giants to the playoffs in hist 1st full year as a Starter (he barely played as a rookie)… he also took them to the playoffs EVERY YEAR for those first 4 years as a Starter.
So what the heck are you talking about?
May 13th, 2019 at 2:36 pm
ONEILBUCS – I’m just curious… are YOU black?
May 13th, 2019 at 2:41 pm
tom brady is far and away the top off the field earner in the NFL, and has a wife who earns more than he does to boot. let’s not use brady as a realistic comp for how players should financially maximize a window that stays open for just a fraction of their lives