O-Line Loafing Called Out At One Buc Palace
May 4th, 2019
An offensive line with members who sleepwalk through, say, two snaps out of 65 per game, that’s a recipe for losing.
‘Play to the whistle’ is as basic as it gets when it comes to O-line coaching.
If you can’t bust your ass for six seconds before taking a breather, then raise your hand and let a substitute come in. If you’re just not into it, well, then that’s up to coaches to police.
The Dirk Koetter regime didn’t seem to care. A loaf here, a loaf there, “Your guys are your guys,” Koetter would say.
In fact, Joe can’t recall Koetter ever questioning his line’s effort. Joe, however, called out clear loafs multiple times.
The film doesn’t lie.
In what was an incredible breath of fresh air this week at One Buc Palace, O-line coach Joe Gilbert said last year’s film showed the Bucs offensive linemen didn’t finish enough plays. That’s coachspeak for loafing. He even detailed that they were often in position but just didn’t finish.
Bucco Bruce Arians already outlined how loafing will be handled, and Joe suspects he wasn’t joking and the players know it.
The first step, as always, is admitting there is/was a problem. Gilbert went there, and Joe feels great that change is really on the way.
May 4th, 2019 at 12:59 pm
“The first step, as always, is admitting there is/was a problem. Gilbert went there, and Joe feels great that change is really on the way.”
AMEN!!!
May 4th, 2019 at 1:02 pm
Competition will help with effort. Hopefully they can figure out a way to get a few more decent linemen in the mix before camp.
May 4th, 2019 at 1:09 pm
We need the discipline.
SI has us rated 32 after the draft.
Probably because of crap like loafing.
We have no respect from anyone.
May 4th, 2019 at 1:12 pm
WELL ITS ABOUT DAMN TIME!!!!
May 4th, 2019 at 1:12 pm
One Tackle can’t run block, has bad knees and is old. The other is barely average and overpriced. We have one decent guard. Our center is average and can’t stop getting called for undisciplined immature penalties… It’s about time someone hold this group accountable. I can’t believe we didn’t add any talent to this group in the off season. SMH…
May 4th, 2019 at 1:15 pm
(cough) Donovan Smith (cough)
May 4th, 2019 at 1:15 pm
Grrrrrrr…didn’t build the trenches in the draft….Grrrrrrrrr….
May 4th, 2019 at 1:27 pm
We can only hope
May 4th, 2019 at 1:39 pm
an older post about this whole Roster Building – not only O-line:
O-line: rotten
>> will lead to bad rushing game (especially short yardage)
>> will lead to Jameis being in much more pressure
>> will hurt the Passing Game
—————–
WR/TE
only realy good ones that are not so easy to replace:
Godwin, OJ Howard, Mike Evans
rest is (easy) replaceable
only one injury away from being less than average = WR/TE corps..
no good depth..
so Offense isn’t in very good shape (=SuperBowl Contender Talent)
don’t get me started with the Defense..
just let me tell you, that besides the QB – the two Lines define a teams backbone..
the O line is rotten (Dotson is lacking and old, even if some dump people are still talking him up, as if he is an good RT – don’t give me sh.. it about some gradings by some sites – he’s simply just not good – lacks strengh, gets overmauled way too often in run and pass game..)
RG: is it possible to get worse?
Marpet: i’m good with him
Center: pffff, meeeh @ 10 Mio per year ?!
LT D.Smith = Dotson , maybe average, easy replaceable, could have had drafted many many better players instead of Smith back then, and time and time again
but Suckaneers suck @ drafting.. and @ evaluating talent..
so they even decided to throw alot of money @ Donovan Smith
and thats one of the reasons why Buccaneers are in Cap Hell, even though they got sh.. itty Talented Roster..
MLB’s have lower value, which means you can easily get an capable MLB per Draft or FreeAgency, while pass rushers come at premium cost (FreeAgency or generall high draft pick)
this year – many great D-liner were available (Clemson guys, and EdOliver the DT the Suckaneers weren’t drafting, will be one heck of a player barring injurys..)
and a good DT makes whole defense better (against the run and pass), thats why they have more value then MLB’s and this guy was a freaking sure shot of top talent, while our new MLB may have great Potential, and looks to be a okay or good player, the DT had more value >>> better prospect (pretty much best player available) and we only have/had VitaVea and McCoy as good DT’s..
as all teams tend rotate a lot, you can be very happy to have 3 very good ones.. especially since injurys happen all the time and MCoy is nearing the End of his career…
why is it that i can see it, but the guy getting lots of money to do it for are living is too stupid to realize all that?!
year after year i complain about things like:
getting rid of good players (Michael Bennett as Steve White always said he should have played more)
Matt Bryant (one of the best Kickers in the NFL)
and now some fans even want to cut McCoy
(when he should easily still be worth at least a 2nd round pick)
he is old but good – maybe not very good, thats debatetable, but he is way better than anything the Bucs have at DT besides VitaVea.. but Vea is a different type of player/DT..
and they spend too much money on too weak players like Dotson, Donovan Smith, Jensen
and in terms of drafting:
very often, there is still good talents on the board, but the Suckaneers just seem to like lesser talent..
year after year i say: draft this one if available, and the Suckaneers even get the oppertunity, but they decide to get another future Suckaneer and the player i wanted goes on to have good career…
realy year after year the same BS..
i am better than the whole “professional” Suckaneers Organisation @ evaluating talent..
it’s laughable
because i am an arm chair GM..
fans should start to boykott this Clown-Show until the Glazers decide to sign an actual intelligent football mind that is able to evaluate talent and to build a good Roster/Team..
this Suckaneer team is full of holes, is lacking talented players and it’s even in SallaryCapHell…
what the hfreaking heck..
Bucsfans, join the Fire-Licht-Tonight movement!
May 4th, 2019 at 1:44 pm
Don’t think anyone is surprised by his assessment after reviewing the film. Funny he used the “these are our guys” line too, as well as Goodwin’s reference about competition at spots and then multiple comments about how much $$ Smith is getting paid… Being that they haven’t added anyone to actually compete at LT, hoping this isn’t just coach-speak with no realistic expectation of actually sitting certain guys for under-performance. We’ll see I guess.
May 4th, 2019 at 1:49 pm
10-6 & Playoffs
#faith
May 4th, 2019 at 1:51 pm
I suspect this OLine is in for some surprises. Joe Gilbert is a no-nonsense OLine coach who knows what he’s doing. Six years as the Colts OLine coach (2012-2017) working for Chuck Pagano, in which they set several franchise records for offense, kinda shows that he knows what he’s doing. Looking at his OLine starters in those years, LOTS of new faces each year, not many of whom I’ve heard of before. This challenge should be right up his alley.
May 4th, 2019 at 1:52 pm
Millionaires shouldn’t loaf
May 4th, 2019 at 1:54 pm
Regarding the draft- here’s the last 5 years of picks on the lines for all NFC South teams (also included Outside Linebackers since they rush the passer):
Saints – 3 DT, 2 DE, 3 OLB, 5 Offensive Lineman
Panthers – 2 DE, 2 DT, 3 OLB, 4 Offensive Lineman
Falcons – 2 DT, 2 DE, 4 OLB, 4 Offensive Lineman
Bucs – 3 DT, 2 DE, 1 OLB, 4 Offensive Lineman
Not a huge difference in terms of numbers, but the big difference is where and who was selected. Of all our DT/DE/OLB picks, only 1 was in the 1st round and 1 in the 2nd round. The rest have been 4th round or below, where as the other teams have invested multiple 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounders in those positions.
Same can be said for the offensive lineman we’ve chosen (2 second rounders and 1 third rounder).
If you don’t invest in the trenches, your team will always struggle. Always.
May 4th, 2019 at 1:55 pm
11-5!! Well I can dream can’t I.
May 4th, 2019 at 2:06 pm
^ Oh and that’s also not including ANY of their free agent acquisitions on DL or OL.
May 4th, 2019 at 2:08 pm
TBBF
That should be the case but when you’re a millionaire AND a Millennial I think it works the other way.
Sad.
May 4th, 2019 at 2:10 pm
Lack of coaching or lack of talent will continue to be a debate.
If you look at just the Oline there is not one good thing to say about the coaching. The coaching in this area of the team was absolutely atrocious.
There is not one player on the OL that this coaching succeeded with. Not one……..That alone is grounds for fire.
We may not have the best talent on OL but let’s not pretend that don’t mean coaching can’t make a difference. This article alone should show you that because you don’t need to be super talented to give max effort.
May 4th, 2019 at 2:20 pm
I think is was Here Edwards that said…”It ain’t the skill, It’s the will”…the guy the wants it the most is the guy that usually wins each snap in this league…
As Joe stated, I find it crazy that Dirk never said anything publicly about the effort of his offensive line or even the inconsistent effort of Smittys garbage defense…Hey! here’s a great idea let’s blame Jameis and bench him cause it’s always the QB’s fault around these parts…What a bum…He was doomed the moment he hitched his wagon to Fitztragic…and the offensive line and defense still sucked…
Now that we finally have a coaching staff that’ll hold everyone accountable instead of just the QB, I expect a much better product on the field overall…
May 4th, 2019 at 2:22 pm
Maybe this is why BA didn’t make it a priority to draft some OL. Maybe he thinks the talent is there, but not the effort.
I may agree with him.
Another thought: maybe the players on the OL didn’t fully buy into the Koetter system, and their play reflects it.
Just another quiet condemnation of the prior coaching staff.
May 4th, 2019 at 2:34 pm
Lack of Coaching lol
How about a lack of talent
That’s more realistic
Loafers gone loaf
May 4th, 2019 at 3:02 pm
@jimmijack
I think being HC and being OC is different.
anyways:
Koetter can coach to an SuperBowl Contending Offense level,
if given the talent.
Just as Lovie Smith did (in an different era of NFL on defense)
May 4th, 2019 at 3:03 pm
but i dont know if Lovie ever called plays himself back then with the Bears
May 4th, 2019 at 3:08 pm
I hope loafing is specifically aimed towards Donovan Smith. I have been disappointed with him since the game against the Rams in 2016 when he went all out on loafing on the last play of the game when DE Robert Quinn fell down trying to get after Winston on a bull rush on DSmith. DSmith didn’t try to keep him from getting up off the ground as Quinn went all hustle n effort to run Winston down from behind to seal the game for a Rams win after tackling Winston at the Rams five yard line short of the end zone. DSmith n former LG Kevin Pampile just loafed n stood n watched Winston get clobbered from behind. I’m sure BA n staff reviewed the game because it was the game played after the Cardinals embarrassed the Bucs with a 40-7 victory the previous week.
May 4th, 2019 at 3:18 pm
@Cobraboy … “Just another quiet condemnation of the prior coaching staff.” Seems like we get to say that about every 2-3 years. Personally think that the only things that’ve been consistent about the Bucs these past 10 years or so is (1) Losing more than Winning; and (2) our coaching staff carousel, accompanied by ‘new faces’ to fit their offenses & defenses. The TEAMS with a HISTORY OF WINNING seem to have this little thingie called STABILITY going for them. The Bucs? Not so much.
May 4th, 2019 at 3:19 pm
Let me say it again”you’ll be hard press getting players that make Big money to play hard for what they viewed as a lame duck coach” simple an plain.
May 4th, 2019 at 3:20 pm
@unbelievable
preach on!
May 4th, 2019 at 3:21 pm
Oh and Cobraboy, forgot to add that BA may think the talent is there … on offense … but we’ve had some fairly dramatic changes on defense already. Personally think there are more to come. Guess that’s what happens when you come in #31 out of 32.
May 4th, 2019 at 3:22 pm
These types of article always make me use the pats boys as an example (which I don’t like btw) they never have what is considered the best Oline. H3ll seems like its a patch work oline come postseason every year. But they give maximum effort why??? Cause they know Belichess will cut they @$$ if they don’t that’s why.
May 4th, 2019 at 3:29 pm
Im a firm beleiver that no matter the talent of the playmakers, you need your oline to come and exexute. Wether thats with razor sharp precision or fierce road grading, the tone is set up front.
With that said, with every year that we allow our oline to “loaf” its like a year wasted for our playmakers. Imagine Evans, OJ etc with an oline ready to kick some arse in front of them.
I really hope Arians can get some of these guys (looking at you Donovan) to set the tone out there.
May 4th, 2019 at 3:33 pm
St Pete
the first step is always, always make it to the liquor store before closing especially in states with blue laws.
May 4th, 2019 at 3:35 pm
TBBF BECOMING A MILLIONAIRE IS WHAT CAUSES MOSY OF THEM TO LOAF!!!!!
May 4th, 2019 at 4:42 pm
JOE – This entire team “LOAFS”. And its been tolerated by the leaders on this team like McCoy and David for far too long. That’s what some of these dumb witted fans can’t get through their head. The culture of losing has been long accepted here. And its the #1 reason McCoy has to go. He’s the head of it.
May 4th, 2019 at 4:43 pm
This may be the best most honest and refreshing post I have seen in a year from this site. Thank you for having a coach say what we all know. Wake the heck up and earn your money!!! Lots of huge money on this line. They are not playing to their salaries.
May 4th, 2019 at 4:59 pm
My point was that our coaching on the OL was atrocious. This is closer to fact then opinion.
If you don’t think so then I want to hear the evidence. The evidence supporting bad coaching bad OL coaching is massive.
We didn’t develope one lineman in three years. Failed to develope any Centers. Failed at the Guard position. Failed at the Tackle position. This is evidence.
That means we failed to develope any drafted players like Phampile and Benechot. Failed to develope any undrafted players brought in and failed to develope anybody signed of waivers brounght in from other team. We failed with every single player we brought in. This is evidence.
We failed at putting any free agent lineman into good positions and guys like Sweezy and Jensen regressed. This is evidence.
The OL players our last coaching staff inherited like Marpet and Smith regressed and played worse over the years. That’s the opposite of what good coaching should be doing. This is evidence.
If anybody thinks this coaching did a good job I want your evidence. If you do a good job you might be able to sell me about Dotson. And that’s it……..Other then that the last staff failed with every player they touched.
May 4th, 2019 at 5:05 pm
Our OL overall is just WEAK. They don’t like to HIT PEOPLE. They’re FINESSE linemen.
They usually do an outstanding job at Pass Protection (finesse) but suck at hitting people in the mouth and mauling them on run plays.
The benefit an OL has is that they know what play is being called, especially for run plays, and know where it’s going… given them added incentive to make sure they crush someone along the path of the run. Yet our OL rarely does it.
May 4th, 2019 at 5:36 pm
At the very least, if you get beat, chase after the guy and pick up the fumble you just caused, or try to make up for it if the QB breaks a tackle. So frustrating when you get beat and just give up.
May 4th, 2019 at 5:47 pm
Lazy Donovan Smith says hi
May 4th, 2019 at 5:55 pm
Inept Irk Koetter.
May 4th, 2019 at 5:58 pm
@jimmyjack
as was said:
other teams drafted good talents in the first 2 rounds while Suckaneers draft guys like VH3 in the first round..
instead of keeping MLB Kwon Alexander who was at least servicable, and what would have freed up the Suckaneers to draft top talent @ premium position (DTEd Oliver)
and the Suckaneers would have had 3 good DT’s to rotate (and in case of injury)
or they could have draftet a premium OffensiveTackle to replace (and not resigning sucking Donovan Smith to TopDollars)…
heck and they would have had the next premium replacement for an aging McCoy..
as said:
premium lineman gi early in the draft..
good MLBs can be easily added if you compare to premium D-Liner…
May 4th, 2019 at 6:01 pm
@jimmyjack
the Suckaneers draft sucking players and you wonder why they don’t develope
May 4th, 2019 at 6:03 pm
and Devin White is just a good Football player with very good to great potential, but Ed Oliver has more value, because he is a sire fire future star at a premium position (the more important position)
May 4th, 2019 at 6:04 pm
9-7 we miss the playoffs
May 4th, 2019 at 6:43 pm
No louden you are off base.
Other teams don’t need 2nd round choices to build an Oline.
Look at the Guard and Center position across the league. Most of these players are developed as low end players drafted low. These guys dont get drafted and instantly become starters. They are drafted and then get developed.
You don’t build a line by drafting 5 1st and 2nd round starters. You build it on the practice field with sheer hardwork. It’s how the other 31 teams do it and it’s called development.
May 4th, 2019 at 8:42 pm
@jimmyjack
jzst @the best players in the league and where they got draftet..
you talk about most of the guys.. but guess what most of the guys are average..
some are elite
watch when they got drafted (the elite ones)
read my long comment above and try to understand:
Suckaneers will continue to suck if they dont follow my plan (plan of hiring an actuall intelligent footvall mind able to evaluate talent and building an roster)
May 4th, 2019 at 9:28 pm
How about no loafing on fixing the RIGHT SIDE of this O line Coach A.?
Ya’ll mf’s must be on some ish to not see it in plain writing and not address it…wtf man?
May 4th, 2019 at 10:13 pm
Louden we are talking about different things.
You make a good point & we got no elite players for OL. But I’m more worried about all the other stuff that goes into building a OL.
May 4th, 2019 at 11:03 pm
I hear ya MadMax and agree. Its the big red flag on all the film. The right side of this OL has zero depth and no HQ players. DEF played better after Kwon got hurt. The front 4 with Nassib and JPP was playing better. Its why they should have selected a DE at 5, cuz in the current NFL no pressure is death v Brees and Ryan. LB easier to find in FA than DE. If you bring the DL heat, the QB will crumble.
May 5th, 2019 at 7:14 am
Bruce Arians: Yeah, I’ll show it up on film and ask him what he’s doing in front of the team. I don’t have a problem with that. If you can’t play hard, you can’t play here. That’s not acceptable. We’ll have an accountability sheet, I call it. Every mental error, every penalty in practice, that’s how we start every day, with the accountability sheet. Now if you’re up there too much, you’re either too dumb to play here or you don’t give a sh*t. Alright, so you can’t be a Buc.
May 5th, 2019 at 7:15 am
love this quote
May 5th, 2019 at 9:12 am
@jimmyjack
and as long as Fans think like you -never ever is sth. going to change and the Suckaneers won´t be the Buccaneers ever gain..
because like I´ve said:
it´s not about coaching..
you can´t coach an 5year old Boy to win a boxing game again MikeTyson in his prime…
simply not possible..
and as long as the Suckaneers continue their sucking ways of Player evaluation and scouting – as long will they continue to suck..
join the
FIRE LICHT TONIGHT
Movement
May 5th, 2019 at 10:01 am
When you look at other teams their OLs aren’t all 1st and 2nd rounders with the exception of the cowboys. They even have some undrafted free agents like we have (both Jensen and Dotson) but both of ours were never developed by incompetent Warhop. Take Pamphile for instance. He was a former basketball player and had the measures to make a starting OT in the NFL. Warhop didn’t even have the sense to see it. He never developed him at all and threw him in the fire as a LG where he struggled while I kept posting his potential was as the RT to replace Dotson when he retired. Instead we let him go and he now is the starting RT for the Titans. Warhop also did not see the potential of D. Smith as a LG. Smith’s krypton is fast DEs. But at LG you face big DTs and he is big enough and strong enough not to be bull rushed. Had Warhop moved him there we would not have had to waste 18 million dollars on him either. But likely Warhop knew he sucked at developing any linemen and didn’t want to move him after he told him he was one of the three top LTs in the NFL (a ball faced lie). He didn’t develop Cappa either; just hired a retired Center to teach him to be a Center which was rediculous when we had a backup Center already.
May 5th, 2019 at 10:19 am
as i said:
you can´t coach talent
..
as you said (maybe) the O-line coach sucked .. but i don´t know – i have never been in a huddle or film-room with him..
May 5th, 2019 at 11:39 am
Loafers & underachievers will not be tolerated. I’ll believe it when I see it. Beginning with lazy ass D. Smith.
May 5th, 2019 at 12:38 pm
In 2002 SuperBowl year. The Bucs running attack was ranked 27th during the regular season. They where the weakest unit on the team. Im not happy about the Oline either. But we got a gaurd in free agency. And Cappa can back him up. Cappa might need another year to build his strength up. Big learning curve comming from a small school. And maybe we can snatch a couple more linemen before camp starts. Teams are going to trim there rosters to make way for there rookies. I would trade McCoy for a gaurd instead of a running back.