How Safe Is Cam Brate?
May 14th, 2019
Job security changed by JPP?
One guy who types about the NFL seems to think that with the uncertain status of Bucs defensive end Jason Pierre-Paul, Bucs stud defensive tackle Gerald McCoy gained job security.
But with the Bucs in salary cap hell, something has to give. Ian Wharton of Bleacher Report thinks it is tight end Cam Brate, not GMC, who will be changing addresses this summer.
Changes are coming for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers because they’ll be forced to make a move in order to sign their rookie class. They’re too close to the cap limit, meaning Gerald McCoy or Cameron Brate could be out soon. Losing either would be a tough blow considering they’re both quality players.
There would be fallout to either move. The Buccaneers lack great receiving depth beyond Mike Evans and Chris Godwin, with Breshad Perriman parlaying a decent season with the Browns into a third receiver role.
Losing McCoy would sting much more after the Jason Pierre-Paul accident that might keep him out for the year. There’s not a replacement for McCoy on the roster. The Buccaneers must also find two pass-rushers out of William Gholston, Noah Spence and Anthony Nelson to go with Carl Nassib. The scheme should be perfect for Spence, whereas Nelson is big enough to be an outside linebacker like Shaquil Barrett.
Although on paper this makes some sense, in practicality, it doesn’t.
GMC is 30. His best years are behind him. Brate, on the other hand, is 27, meaning he is just entering his prime.
One also must factor in that O.J. Howard, stud that he is, has landed on the injured reserve list to end each of his first two NFL seasons.
Also remember Brate is sneaky good. He is the lone tight end in the NFL who has caught at least six touchdowns in each of the past three seasons.
Just this past week, Bucco Bruce Arians talked excitedly about how to use two tight ends like Howard and Brate, and he confessed he’s never had two tight ends this talented to work with. GMC? Arians refused comment about the guy.
Joe sees where Wharton is coming from here and despite the fact losing JPP and GMC would just about ruin an already subpar defensive line, losing Brate may hurt worse.
Even though the Bucs’ defensive line has been bad at getting after quarterbacks for too damn long, it is lack of points that has been killing this team more than a lack of sacks.
Getting rid of a touchdown machine for a tight end is not the smartest way to go about scoring more points.
May 14th, 2019 at 9:04 am
Like a starving man slicing off his own flesh to survive….thanks Jason…you can only double down and lose so long…
May 14th, 2019 at 9:04 am
So far BA has been pretty transparent if you care to listen to him. He’s excited to use two stud tight ends. I believe him. Brate is not going anywhere…McCoy is.
May 14th, 2019 at 9:10 am
Dump JPP and McCoy…tough thing to do….then if the team is flopping around @ the trade deadline perhaps Brate and others get traded
May 14th, 2019 at 9:12 am
They can trade Brate and make cap space. If they release him they get no cap space. The problem is no one wants to trade for an average tight end. They will keep him one more year.
May 14th, 2019 at 9:16 am
Joe … Why do you do this to yourself, and to us? On every NFL team each & every player has one foot out the door. Raheem had it right … “We’ll tolerate you until we can replace you”. The NFL is a BUSINESS as you know better than the rest of us. Part of that business is PRODUCTIVITY, another part is ENTERTAINMENT VALUE and a third part is DOLLAR VALUE far as I’m concerned.
As The Donald would be wont to say, ‘It’s a beautiful thing when the three of them come together’. Unfortunately for most NFL players, rarely do they come together. Tom Brady is an example IMO of when they do. Kwon is an example of when they don’t … for the Bucs at least.
Cam Brate’s not going anyplace. They would’ve released him after last season if he was. His PRODUCTIVITY is still very good for a TE, and the Bucs will NEED that with DJax & Humphries now gone. Coming up with an additional $4 mil to pay for our rookies isn’t all that hard IMO. Coming up with an ADDITIONAL $10 mil or so to sign a quality RG AND a quality RB to FIX THE OFFENSE is a challenge. Especially if the Bucs release JPP or GMC and have to also pay for suitable replacements for their positions.
May 14th, 2019 at 9:20 am
You don’t gain any cap space moving Brate till after this season. His dead cap figure for the upcoming season is the same as his salary
May 14th, 2019 at 9:22 am
JPP and GMC removal creates cap space..only way to go
May 14th, 2019 at 9:31 am
HOW is it possible that a losing team for consecutive years has no money but winning teams are still under the cap ?? Have the bucs employed the worst gm in the entire league?? Why aren’t the fans screaming for Light’s head as he has ruined our team !!!
May 14th, 2019 at 9:31 am
As with anything, it all comes down what is offered. Brate isn’t going to be cut, he’ll be traded of the offer exceeds his worth here.
May 14th, 2019 at 9:34 am
I already said this in a different thread. Cam Brate is a luxury at this point, not a necessity.
Tough decisions have to be made to speed up the recovery from the hangover of losing.
@Getaclue, your s/n is so fitting. If we trade Cam, we don’t incur the cap hit.
May 14th, 2019 at 9:39 am
Brady already has ASJ in at TE so might as well trade brate up to brady and watch the pats win another super bowl and the bucs draft in top 5 again in 2020
May 14th, 2019 at 9:42 am
If I’m not mistaken, the great Jimmy Johnson said losing teams have money locked into the wrong positions. With OJ, Cam is money locked into the wrong position. I love Brate, but I would rather see my team rise like the phoenix and invest that into the RB or DE position.
This offense would be more dynamic and lethal with a legit homerun hitter or at least a change of pace running back. Nobody really left to choose from, unless some decent ones get released b4 the 53-man roster is finalized.
Would you rather have a RB that can complement Barber or a TE that can complement OJ? My money is on the RB.
May 14th, 2019 at 9:45 am
If you’re going to trade brate, send him to New England or somewhere he’ll win and hopefully we can get compensation for him. But I’d rather keep him, he shows up to work.
May 14th, 2019 at 9:47 am
Release/Trade
-Jason Pierre Paul
-Gerald McCoy
Trade for (Make’em An Offer They Can’t Refuse)
-DT Leonard Williams – 2020 2nd rd pick, 2021 3rd rd pick
-DE Whitney Mercilus – 2020 4th Rd Pick, 2021 5th rd pick
-DT Solomon Thomas – 2021 5th & 7th Rnd Pick
Do whatever combination it takes – but please stop pu_$y footin’ around.
Potential Depth
DT Leonard Williams | Solomon Thomas
NT Vita Vea | Beau Allen
DE Carl Nassib | Anthony Nelson
Whitney Mercilus | Noah Spence
Devin White | Kevin Minter
Lavonte David | Deone Buccanon
Shaquil Barrett | Lavonte Bond
May 14th, 2019 at 9:48 am
-DT Solomon Thomas – 2020 5th & 7th Rnd Pick
May 14th, 2019 at 9:50 am
We might already have a DE to replace JPP. JAMEIS WINSTON! He already said he wants to play at like 250 well if they get him to put another 20 lbs. on & get him to 270 or so HE COULD TAKE OVER FOR JPP. Then if JPP can come back we move Winston over to the other side then put Nassib & Nelson behind them. Then if we go 3-13 or 4-12 we’d have a chance at Tua next year. If we can’t get Tua then we can go after Fromm or maybe Herbert.
May 14th, 2019 at 9:56 am
Trevor Lawrence 2021
May 14th, 2019 at 9:56 am
I Love Brate, but think the team needs balance. We have no depth in some positions, but at least 2-3 quality receiving options. Moving Brate and GMC should have happened before the draft (Brate to New England) so we wouldn’t be looking at the inevitable cuts now, when the options to fix are slim. Fix the team now by addressing needs, be mindful of the long term cap issues and talent and hope to secure maybe a draft pick or two for the future by letting go of these players. I am pulling for the coach, but am realistic in saying that we are dreaming if we think this is going to be our season. We did it last year and held onto D Jackson when we could have traded him…instead we cut him and get nothing. Same looks true for McCoy. Hopefully we get something for him. I suggest we make the best of things and know that this may take a couple years to fix.
May 14th, 2019 at 10:00 am
@ Defense Rules
So nice to see grammatically correct posts of substance in here. Thank you for your always-high-quality contributions. Great content.
May 14th, 2019 at 10:00 am
Brate is solid, but he’s also expendable (along with his salary).
Auclair can fill most of Brate’s role in the passing game and he’s a way better blocker than Brate.
Think about it. There really isn’t anywhere u can line Brate up on the field right now where there wouldn’t be a better option on the bench…
While I appreciate what Brate has done for us, he would be taking away valuable snaps in the slot from more talented guys like Godwin/Perriman/Bobo Wilson etc
We can save cap money if we trade (preferrably) or release Brate, correct?
May 14th, 2019 at 10:03 am
They should consider trading Brate to Jacksonville & get something in return from them. Jacksonville could use another TE. They should consider sending McCoy, maybe Gholston & a 1st or 2nd rounder to Houston for Clowney. Clowney might be on his way out of there soon.
May 14th, 2019 at 10:04 am
I just saw Getaclue’s post about dead cap money if we get rid of Brate, so he’s obviously staying….
No disrespect intended in my post above, Mr Brate
May 14th, 2019 at 10:05 am
Brate has completely overachieved in the NFL…leading the league in TDs for tight ends not long ago. Having said that…he appears to have hit his ceiling and had more bobbles than you’d like to see last year. The bottom line…no one besides perhaps Mike Evans and JW in (2019 only) and top rookie picks of course are exempt from a trade/outright release.
May 14th, 2019 at 10:09 am
Gump is not interested in TD’s, otherwise he would have selected the legendary Darrell Henderson with the 70th pick instead of trading him for 2 magic beans. DH scored 27 TD’s in 2018 while accumulating 2300 yards. Brate can’t match those numbers in his whole career.
What could BA do with a RB that averaged 8.9 yards per carry? 14.5 per catch?
“Why aren’t the fans screaming for Light’s head as he has ruined our team !!!”
Simms is screaming, “FIRE LIGHT TONIGHT!”
May 14th, 2019 at 10:15 am
Chris Simms had to take you serious when you spell the GMs name wrong.
May 14th, 2019 at 10:16 am
Luv My Bucs…good stuff…esp drafting Larence in 2021
May 14th, 2019 at 10:19 am
From here on out I’m first scanning posts for multiple exclamation points. For all (ignorant contributor’s) posts containing them, it’s “Next post up!”
I’ll enjoy never again reading one of your (ignorant) posts again, @ Chris Simms.
May 14th, 2019 at 10:21 am
As much as I like Brate I would consider trading him. Matbe to NE for a 4th rd. pick. this would be in addition to kicking Gerald to the curb. Also JPP.
May 14th, 2019 at 10:34 am
No need to trade or release anyone. Just redo Mike Evans contract to shuffle the bonus some.
And, so far as I can see, the only ones panicking are the fans and media. The Bucs seem pretty content thus far.
May 14th, 2019 at 10:37 am
I think the biggest mistake that could be made is to create an extreme issue in 1-2 other spots just to fix an issue in 1 spot.
May 14th, 2019 at 10:40 am
Ben..
Not Rocket Science to figure that out!! He is right down there w Trent Baalke!! 49ers last GM before Lynch!! Maybe Lynch could take over for Meathead!!
May 14th, 2019 at 10:45 am
Chris Simms 2020 GM..
Agree 100 % on your post!!!!!!!!!! When we traded # 70 to Rams and they took Henderson who I believe is elite, turned off the draft to go trout fishing!!
May 14th, 2019 at 10:48 am
Keep Brate……Cut JPP…..Cut or trade GMC…..that will free about $20 mil….we should be able to get replacements for GMC & JPP for that….maybe not as good….but perhaps good enough with improved defense at other positions….scheme & coaching.
We can find the additional cap savings to sign the draft class…..a cut here and there at the bottom of the roster will do.
Just look at all the NFL minimum players at the bottom of the roster at appx $500K…..we can make it work.
May 14th, 2019 at 10:50 am
Tampabaybucfan Says:
“….we should be able to get replacements for GMC & JPP for that…”
How quickly Tampa fans forget…how hard it is to get good players.
May 14th, 2019 at 10:53 am
You cannot tell me that anyone we bring in is better than McCoy. Even Suh is nowhere close. If you compare their entire careers, they look close to equal…but compare the past 5 years, and McCoy is much, much better.
May 14th, 2019 at 10:55 am
LUV 4 GM!!!!!!!!!
GO BUCS!!!!!
May 14th, 2019 at 10:59 am
10yr Record
• W/L Record: 56-106 = 34.57%←
When has sitting around with your thumb up you’re a_$ – Ever been considered a good thing?
May 14th, 2019 at 11:01 am
@ Dusthty & 813
Respect Bredren
May 14th, 2019 at 11:10 am
I really think this team will probably be the same or no better until the Glazers go. They care more about Manchester United. Bucs need somebody in there that’ll put more into the team. Never seen a team draft so many players coming off major injuries (especially ACLs). Kendall Beckwith, Jamel Dean, Jack Cichy, Terry Beckner, etc.
May 14th, 2019 at 11:14 am
Succaneers, suck suck suck suck have sucked will suck and you losers typing everyday about a losing team makes you all losers, hahaha
May 14th, 2019 at 11:15 am
Succaneers, suck suck suck suck have sucked will suck and you losers typing everyday about a losing team makes you all losers, hahaha
May 14th, 2019 at 11:24 am
The biggest hits on the cap this year are:
• Jameis Winston: $20,922,000 (Dead Cap $20,922,000)
• Mike Evans: $20,000,000 (Dead Cap $34,750,000)
• Jason Pierre-Paul: $14,900,000 (Dead Cap $7,500,000)
• Gerald McCoy: $13,000,000 (Dead Cap $0.00)
• Donovan Smith: $12,500,000 (Dead Cap $27,000,000)
• Ali Marpet: $11,025,000 (Dead Cap $12,225,000)
Really, if you think it through, all of them are needed, except JPP, and his money won’t count against the cap until he returns anyway (which is something most of you are forgetting).
Some have suggested replacing GMC with Suh. That would be a downgrade, and Suh will not play for less than $12,000,000 this year. You might say no team will pay him that much at his age, but people forget that he made $14m last year…at McCoy’s age. Also, he will get multiple offers, and as a result someone will offer him guarantees. We currently have no guarantees with McCoy, and he is the better player.
No, the way to create room is much simpler.
• JPP will not count against the cap until he returns to health and plays, so his money is not counting against our cap yet.
TOTAL CAP MONEY SAVED: $7,500,000
• Demar Dotson: $4,803,125 (No dead cap)
It’s time to release him. Now. Let’s face it: we are going to have to move on next year no matter what…we have a couple guys here to try to fill the role. Cut him and save the money, give them a shot, and draft RT next year if it does not work out good enough.
TOTAL CAP MONEY SAVED: $12,303,125
• William Gholston: $$3,750,000 (No Dead Cap)
Gholston has had plenty of time to prove himself, and never has. We drafted his replacement this year, so cut the guy already!
TOTAL CAP MONEY SAVED: $20,856,250
That is plenty of money.
May 14th, 2019 at 11:29 am
LUVMYBUCS Says
“10yr Record
• W/L Record: 56-106 = 34.57%←
When has sitting around with your thumb up you’re a_$ – Ever been considered a good thing?”
Everyone blamed the last coaching staff for the failures. If Arians and his staff are so good and they are not in panic mode, why should we be?
You suggested we get rid of JPP and McCoy. Why? Because it is the easiest way to spot to free up space? The easy way is not the best way.
I gave an actual solution above that will get the job done without losing two essential players.
May 14th, 2019 at 11:37 am
bonzai
LUV is right….
time to ship those 2 outta town and roll with the youth movement….we’ve lost with GMC for years and JPP and his 12.5sacks helped us win the same amount of games as last year…..
time to go younger…..
GO BUCS!!!!!
May 14th, 2019 at 11:40 am
“There’s not a replacement for McCoy on the roster.”
You mean there’s no one who gets butt hurt by what the media says on our roster? Or there’s not any pedestrian DTs who don’t make splash plays or change games? Or there’s not any DTs making $13M who disappear during games?
Not sure what he means here.
No All Pro honors since 2014. FIVE years ago. And Pro Bowls don’t matter.
May 14th, 2019 at 11:49 am
813bucboi Says
“…time to ship those 2 outta town and roll with the youth movement…”
Sigh…if you have been around here as a Bucs fan for any length of time, you’d know that ever few years, there are some fans who say “it is time to roll with the youth movement!”
And nothing every gets better. Why? Because even though fans want to get younger, they are too impatient to allow for youth development.
Rookies commonly work out this way:
• They have a great rookie year, and then take steps back the following year (see Mike Evans, for example…or for an extreme example, look at Michael Clayton, Doug Martin, etc).
…Or…
• They have a rough rookie year because they struggle to acclimate. In this case, their following year is either worse, or they use the off season to fix their issues and they start doing better.
Last year is a great example. The Bucs went younger by signing all of their draft picks. Fans gave up on our first round pick before training camp. In OTAs, MJ Stewart practiced in press coverage and looked fantastic, but in training camp he was forced to play zone and suddenly looked bad. Jones never really got a chance, but fans have still given up on him. In fact, outside of Vita Vea, who finally got to play and prove fans wrong, the fans gave up on almost the wntire class.
Yet you say get younger.
The truth is you, nor most of the Tampa fans, do not have the patience to get younger.
Therefore, we must have veterans while we develop the youth.
That isn’t opinion. It’s fact. It’s history.
May 14th, 2019 at 11:50 am
Please excuse the typos.
May 14th, 2019 at 11:52 am
Fire Jason Licht hire a GM that has rational unbiased thinking, problem solved.
May 14th, 2019 at 11:54 am
Scoring touchdowns and catching the ball is overrated. He’s a good player so we absolutely need to get rid of him.
May 14th, 2019 at 11:55 am
How safe is Brate????? Very!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just like many others, licht weight has over paid to the point that the player has no trade value!!!!!!! 7 million for a non-blocking TE is crazy even for licht weight standards!!!!!!!!!!!! And word on the street is that the hip has not been healing correctly will not help anything!!!!!!!!!!! At this point, I am surprised that the Bucs do not have a one dimensional FB earning a guaranteed 10 million!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But don’t worry, the sheep will get to talk about all the salary cut casualties from other teams, that will be the saviors this year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2019 will reveal answers to the sheep, that the “real” fans already know!!!!!!!!!!!
Go Bucs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
May 14th, 2019 at 12:10 pm
Keep them both. Release Ryan smith and gholston.
May 14th, 2019 at 12:44 pm
I like Brate. Love him even, maybe. But the notion that losing him would “hurt worse” than a HOF talent like McCoy is a bridge too far for me.
May 14th, 2019 at 12:57 pm
don’t they achieve ZERO cap savings from unloading Brate? i was pretty sure his 2019 salary is already guaranteed to count against the cap
May 14th, 2019 at 12:58 pm
@Bonzai … “all of them are needed, except JPP, and his money won’t count against the cap until he returns anyway (which is something most of you are forgetting).”
OK Bonzai, I can’t find that rule anyplace, i.e., that JPP’s money wouldn’t count against the Bucs salary Cap until he returns. What I did find though was kinda interesting. One very article on the Bengals’ website entitled ‘Explaining PUP, NFI, IR and other NFL roster designations” (it’s at https://www.cincyjungle.com/2018/8/31/17797904/explaining-pup-nfi-ir-other-injury-nfl-roster-designations-cuts-53-man-roster ).
What I wasn’t aware of is that the rules for NFI & PUP are different for those who START there PRIOR to training camp (the rules for NFI & PUP are very close to the same). In JPP’s case, it looks like if he’s placed on NFI/PUP prior to the start of training camp, the Bucs would get a roster exemption while keeping him under contract with the ability to play later in the season (and they wouldn’t have to place him on IR it appears).
Under the rules, he couldn’t play before Week 7 of the regular season, BUT … in JPP’s case, he wouldn’t be ready before that anyways it sounds like. Although he couldn’t practice for those first 6 weeks of the season, he’s allowed to do conditioning work with the trainers. After the 6 weeks, he’d have another 6-week window to begin practicing. If he can’t practice then, he’d have to stay on PUP for the whole year. If he can practice, then the Bucs would have 21 days to either (1) activate him to the roster; or (2) release/waive him; or (3) do nothing & keep him on the PUP.
All-in-all, it would seem that the Bucs just need to sit still for awhile. Would be interested Bonzai to find out where it says JPP’s salary wouldn’t count until he returns.
May 14th, 2019 at 1:21 pm
Trade Mccoy and Brate to Dallas for Quinn and a draft pick. Quinn takes Paul’s spot release Paul. Sign Allen Bailey 3-4DE/DT, still have money left over.
May 14th, 2019 at 1:23 pm
@Bonzai … “Therefore, we must have veterans while we develop the youth.” Excellent point. Bucs last great youth movement IMO took place after the 2008 season (in which we went 9-7). Derrick Brooks was released; so was Jeff Garcia, Matt Bryant & several other veterans. And oh ya, big coaching staff turnover (Raheem in; Chucky & Monte Kiffin out). New QB in Josh Freeman. Perfect prescription for success? Not … we went 3-13 in 2009, before Raheem temporarily righted the ship to a 10-6 season in 2010, then watched the bottom fall out in 2011 when we went 4-12.
Youth movements sound very appealing, but getting rid of quality experience & LEADERSHIP doesn’t help the development of those youngsters any. Winning TEAMS are a mix of quality seasoned veterans and youth. Back in my much younger days of flying fighters, our saying was ‘Old age & cunning will overcome youth & skill every time.’ Applies in sports too … up to a point.
May 14th, 2019 at 1:31 pm
We’ve gotta get rid of the Jonah (GMC). His $13 mil is a lot of money that could go a long way to settle our cap issues. We need to keep Brate, especially since OJ hasn’t made it through an entire season to this point.
May 14th, 2019 at 1:56 pm
7 million is an expensive insurance policy when you can get a FA TE for about 2 million.
May 14th, 2019 at 2:30 pm
@Defense Rules
It is an assumption on my part, because that is usually the way roster exemption injuries work.
May 14th, 2019 at 2:31 pm
I suppose someone in the media will eventually look into it, but right now, they are focusing on supporting the popular opinions of the fans.
May 14th, 2019 at 3:13 pm
Bonzai you make good points but something you keep overlooking is McCoys value to this team as a leader(which hurts the team imo).
You are only looking at McCoy the player but Gerald is the face of the franchise and you have to look at McCoy the leader too. What he means to the team inside the locker room is every bit as important to how many stats he can get. Maybe moreso.
McCoy isn’t there cause Bruce probably don’t want him…….Just listen to him talk about the defense and he always says he wants a physical attacking defense. Stands to reason that he needs his team Captains to be physical attacking players. Gerald is neither. He does not fit on this team. He is a finesse player. He is also more forgiving then he is attacking on the field.
It’s just not going to happen with McCoy because Bruce just does not want him. If he wanted him he would be at practice.
May 14th, 2019 at 3:34 pm
BA said its a what have you done for me lately league. So that says it all.
May 14th, 2019 at 4:31 pm
There should be one year where the NFL let the fans draft everybody. Not just for the Bucs but for all the other teams, too! Yeah it’ll never happen though. Sometimes it really seems like the fans could draft better.