Fair To #BlameJameis?
May 11th, 2019
Little support.
It is fair to suggest in recent years, the Bucs defense has been so very rotten, that America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston, has been hung out to dry.
It’s also fair to say Jameis isn’t yet a franchise quarterback, and his numbers suggest he may not be. “Numbers” meaning wins.
Jet-flyin’, kiss–stealin‘, data-analyzin’, Bucs-film-studyin’, limousine-ridin’ Thomas Bassinger of the Tampa Bay Times took a deep dive into Jameis’ four-year history. He suggests the folks who cannot wait to run Jameis out of town for the Bucs’ losing ways are throwing rocks at the wrong target.
That doesn’t mean Bassinger is sold that Jameis is the answer after analyzing the data.
Usually, the better the quarterback played, the more often his team won. That wasn’t the case for Winston. When Winston played poorly, the Bucs rarely won, as you would expect. But when he played well, they still lost.
Of the 10 games in which he averaged between 6 and 6.9 ANY/A, the Bucs lost seven. Among the losses: the 37-32 loss to the Rams in 2016, the 30-24 overtime loss to the Raiders in 2016 and the 26-20 overtime loss to the Packers in 2017. Compare how the Bucs performed in games in which Winston played decently with how the Packers performed in games in which Aaron Rodgers played decently: Green Bay won nine of those 14 games.
Random? Perhaps. But it’s harder to explain the Bucs losing in three of Winston’s four best games (games in which he averaged more than 10 ANY/A) — the 31-30 loss to Washington in 2015, the 22-19 loss to the Panthers in 2017 and the 34-32 loss to the Falcons in last season’s finale. Winston wasn’t perfect in those games, but when quarterbacks play as well as Winston did, their teams win about 90 percent of the time.
Of course, 90 percent of those teams didn’t have a defense that was such a slap-in-the-face to innocent citizens. Watching that trash was worse than the shock of waking up after a long night of boozing to Rosie O’Donnell in your bed.
To this very day, Joe doesn’t know how someone with the last name “Glazer” didn’t toss a suite chair from the owners box onto the turf of the Den of Depression like Bobby Knight. The so-called defense was such a galling and appalling display. In several third world countries, shamed defensive coordinator Mike Smith would be chained to a bed for such offenses.
It’s a big year for Jameis. He’s got the coach and the receivers and the tight ends. But on paper, that horrid Bucs defense may not be much better.
May 11th, 2019 at 12:05 pm
Did Bassinger explain why a “pro-ready” number one overall draft pick in his 5th year is needing a “quarterback whisperer”?
May 11th, 2019 at 12:16 pm
Bad defense, bad kicking, no run game and an inconsistent QB= 21-33 record. Can’t have a gumbo with just 1 ingredient.
May 11th, 2019 at 12:20 pm
You can throw all the facts you want at the trolls Joe, but clowns like Jim above will blame Jameis no matter what the facts say.
May 11th, 2019 at 12:28 pm
I can think of at least four games a year where Jameis either got the lead in the fourth quarter of the game only to see the defense surrender, or when the defense was so putrid that they were behind by 2 touchdowns by halftime which forced them to throw, throw, throw, which is never a good thing. Think of what a 4 game difference each year would mean for his win/loss record.
May 11th, 2019 at 12:32 pm
Watching Bucs v Browns last night. Def gives up a 2 TD lead in the 4th qrt and the kicker misses a game-winning 30 yard FG with sec left on the clock to take it to overtime. Jameis throws an INT in OT and almost loses the game.
If your def can’t hold a 10+ point lead in the 4th and your kicker can’t make a 34 yard FG to win the game then it only makes sense to blame your QB for the loss.
Also watch GB 2017 where Williams ran through GMCs gap for 136 yards, Hundley ran thru his gap to tie the game. Later they ran the ball down our throats to win in OT.
I’ve seen this play out far too often
May 11th, 2019 at 12:40 pm
Removing all the other issues with the team and judging Jameis on his body of work…there are great things he has done every years 1-4 and some bad things he has done years 1-4….his progress has been slow moving on from his bad things throwing the football….so here we are including the FO anxiously waiting for this expensive stock to start making returns on the investment
May 11th, 2019 at 12:41 pm
On paper, the Defense is already much better-
Better coaches, huge upgrades at Linebackers, and more quality DB’s.
The DLine lost JPP, but will be ok if they focus on occupying other team’s OLine while Linebackers and Secondary do their jobs pressuring qb and stopping run.
Jameis has to reduce turnovers-no excuses – and let his talent win
May 11th, 2019 at 12:46 pm
I believe it’s going to be a long year. The obvious is the Paul and
Mccoy issue, but the bucs did not address the offensive line at all. Demar Dotson is not getting any younger and no clear cut right guard. Jameis Winston is not superman you can’t be a consistent qb in the NFL with a suspect offensive line.
May 11th, 2019 at 12:50 pm
Fun fact: TB’s first rushing TD came in week 7 and RoJo ran the ball for a 2 yard TD. WEEK 7
May 11th, 2019 at 12:53 pm
CG, everything I said is factual, so naturally where facts fail you, you turn to insult. I get it…
May 11th, 2019 at 1:11 pm
Easy answer Jim the quarterback whisperer is actually bringing a real defensive and special team coordinator with him. You know the other two thirds of the games that are supposed to help but during Jameis’s entire career have been putrid.
May 11th, 2019 at 1:13 pm
The fact is Jameis is starting year 5 and he is not a winning NFL QB – plenty of reasons why that is, some of which were beyond his control but plenty of reason that were completely in his control. All he has is big numbers, big deal if they don’t go with wins.
He certainly hasn’t played up to the status of being the first pick in the draft. He really hasn’t played up to even being a first round draft choice.
I don’t believe Jameis will succeed but if he is going to, it better be this year and it better be in September. Imagine a loss to the 49er’s …
As of right now the “best” QB in franchise history isn’t even on track to make the Ring of Honor.
May 11th, 2019 at 1:18 pm
DB55 there was a lot of good and bad play in that Cleveland game including Jameis.
I think you have revisionist history.
Jameis played well at times but not so well other times:
Changing the play call on the safety
The interception and a separate fumble by Winston when the Buc’s were up by 14 in the 2nd quarter.
An interception in overtime on our same side of the field.
Later after the Buc’s get a fumble recovery on the Cleveland 37. On 1st and 10 Winston takes a sack HOLDING the ball for 6 seconds and no immediate pressure (probably his worst play of the game IMO because down and distance common sense was not there).
I don’t think that Cleveland game supports him as a franchise quarterback or a horrible defense. That game the Bucs defense had 5 sacks to Cleveland’s none. The Buc’s had bad kicking (missed a 40 yarder not a 30 yarder) and lost the turnover battle (2 interceptions as well as Brates and Winstons fumbles).
The defense gave up 305 net yards that week compared with bucs offense getting 456 net yards. In the overtime, the bucs defense forced a punt from Cleveland when Winston turned it over on the Buc’s own 45 yard line. Very good defense from a tired team at that point.
Jameis had some excellent scramble throws that day. The Buc’s overcame the bad kicking and the loss of Kwon that day during that game.
A good overall game for the team.
May 11th, 2019 at 1:20 pm
@Joe ‘But on paper, the horrid Bucs defense may not be much better.’ Attaboy Joe, keep HOPE alive. Sure is a good things that NFL games aren’t played on paper, huh.
May 11th, 2019 at 1:21 pm
Thanks, Ndog, for the polite and rational response…
May 11th, 2019 at 1:22 pm
Pete I ask this question a lot and never seem to get an answer, but since you seem to think only wins matter when talking about QB’S please name the QB in the history of the game that won with a bottom 5 defense, a bottom 5 running game and a bottom 5 kicking game? I’ll wait…
May 11th, 2019 at 1:28 pm
Wins are the only thing that matters both in the short term and long term.
I am not concerned with past bad teams, I have my hands full watching this bad football team and its horribly underachieving QB. But whatever QB did have all those things likely isn’t remembered as a winner too.
As of right now the “best” QB in franchise history isn’t even on track to make the Ring of Honor.
May 11th, 2019 at 1:36 pm
Good Lord. What a dumb comment by Bassinger.
Joe Montana couldn’t win with the Bucs stinky D and ST’s…
May 11th, 2019 at 1:43 pm
Geno valid points but none of it happens if Santos makes the kick.
May 11th, 2019 at 2:22 pm
WAIT WAIT WAIT…
Before anyone tries blaming our weak Defense on Jameis’ lack of wins, or anyone trying to argue that it shouldn’t matter…
Let’s take a more PRAGMATIC, FACTUAL approach…
How many games in Winston’s career has he marched the Bucs down the field on one of their first 2 possessions of a game to either establish an early lead or to keep pace with the opponent if they scored first?
That had ZERO to do with the Defense. It doesn’t matter if we had the #1 Defense in the NFL or the #32 Defense. Winston had the ball, had no ‘late game heroics’ to worry about… had no ‘prevent defense’ or any other situational defensive scheme to worry about…
Just Jameis and the ball, early in games, to see what he can do with a fresh, rested Offense.
SO HOW HAS HE DONE? HOW HAS HIS FOUR-YEAR CAREER gone during the Team’s first two possessions of any game?
Spoiler Alert: He’s been one of the worst in the league at early-game scoring drives.
So let’s STOP with all the Jameis excuses that it was the Defense’s fault. They play their part in the lack of wins for sure, but Jameis has had plenty of opportunities ON HIS OWN early in games to produce and he hasn’t.
May 11th, 2019 at 2:30 pm
I’d like to the Bucs move on from Winston in 2021’ and draft Trevor Lawrence. Trade up or do what’s necessary to get him
May 11th, 2019 at 2:39 pm
Believe it or not losing JPP and G Mac is a good thing…it allows the Bucs to create a whole new identity.
People have succeeded the most in life when they have been deprived resources. When you are forced to step up they will play better and more focused cause ain’t nobody coming to save them!
Us vs World mentality…Go Bucs!
May 11th, 2019 at 2:48 pm
Ask yourself if Brady or Rodgers or Big Ben or Luck would make it to the playoffs with the 2nd worst defense in NFL history?
AND the leagues worst rushing attack…. seriously, look it up.
What Jameis has done is remarkable….Give him a middle of the road D and watch him get better. He doesn’t have to ball out. He can play boring football and just win games threatening with his arm and handing off to a RB.
We all know he can make tight throws and connect on deep passes to “not midget” WR’s.
May 11th, 2019 at 3:15 pm
@geno711:
Very nice rebuttal.
The Bucs defense also had a goal-line stand at the ONE yard line during that 4th quarter, and then Jameis took a sack on 3rd and 2, necessitating a punt. One TD “drive” for the Browns started at the Tampa 16, after a 32 yard punt return.
tickrdr
May 11th, 2019 at 3:29 pm
Jim Says:
“Did Bassinger explain why a “pro-ready” number one overall draft pick in his 5th year is needing a “quarterback whisperer”?”
Did Jim bother reading the article linked to?
May 11th, 2019 at 3:30 pm
Jamies has been given an awful running game and the worst defense and kicking game in the NFL over the past three years. Yet some of the writers on this site and others foolishly primarily blame Jamies for loosing.
Just look at the stats(worst defense over three years in the NFL).
May 11th, 2019 at 3:31 pm
BigMacAttack Says
“I’d like to the Bucs move on from Winston in 2021’
Or…you could say you hope Jameis leads us to a championship so we don’t have to pick another QB.
May 11th, 2019 at 3:34 pm
I don’t buy into the running game excuse. They only time it would have mattered is in short yardage situations in my book. Why? Because we still racked up the yards.
Yes, I know running the ball eats up the clock and keeps it out of opponent’s hands, and it is a plus to have a running game…but it would not have made a difference for us with the defense playing so poorly and missing field goals left and right.
May 11th, 2019 at 3:35 pm
Just a little point to bring up…imagine if we did not have Jameis since he was drafted. We would have been stuck watching some worse games than we did watch.
#ThankJameis
May 11th, 2019 at 3:44 pm
BucsBandit, if your going to base Jameis performance on the first two drives of every game, you might want to take in consideration the first couple of drives are more heavily scripted by the coaching staff ahead of time. Later in the game plays are driven by more reactions to the game from both the coordinator and the QB
May 11th, 2019 at 3:56 pm
I am a big JW supporter. I also try not to be biased when looking at this team. I think we got a glimpse in 2016 of what this team is capable of when the defense played lights out for that 6 game stretch late in the season. JW played well and I believe he has played well over his time being here. Remember when a team is picking first it is usually a bad team. So he was basically thrown to the wolves from the get. There are a lot of factors as to why this team has not been great most of all the defense, coaching, and etc. I hope that the new coaching staff can turn this thing around, if not then the team needs to start over all together.
May 11th, 2019 at 4:20 pm
Jim Says:
May 11th, 2019 at 12:05 pm
Did Bassinger explain why a “pro-ready” number one overall draft pick in his 5th year is needing a “quarterback whisperer”?
That is quite a lot of praise to heap on Byron Leftwich.
May 11th, 2019 at 5:00 pm
Winston is an up-and-down QB…. pretty much the definition of bipolar on the field.
Brett Favre threw between 13 and 29 INTs a year EVERY year from 1992-2008, a 17-year span. In SIX of those seasons he threw at least 21 INTs!
Brett Favre went to multiple Superbowls! The teams and organization he played for did NOT SUCK.
May 11th, 2019 at 5:10 pm
@Player 1 – LOL. So what you’re saying is… Jameis just doesn’t do well for the first couple of heavily scripted, heavily pre-planned drives from the coaches? The same plans that he is FULLY IN ON THE MEETINGS FOR AND PREPARES FOR?
If that’s the case you’re trying to make, then you’re definitely admitting that Winston is NOT a good NFL QB. The other top QBs in the league typically excel at those first couple of pre-scripted drives.
Hahahahaha. Man… it’s ridiculous how so many on this site continue to make excuses for Winston’s inconsistent, crappy play over his first 4 years in the league.
May 11th, 2019 at 5:32 pm
No one outside of Tampa Bay fans believes in Jay Miss. His national reputation is caca.
May 11th, 2019 at 11:10 pm
Db55
I remember the 2017 Green Bay game too. Winston kind of fell backwards and handed a pick to a guy coming through the LOS.
I need a QB that can take care of the ball and live up to the billing of a winner- and #1 overall pick. Why settle for a QB whose the worst in the division? I’d rather draft a kid and pay them the rookie wage than put my eggs in Winston’s Basket.
We need to see consistency, good decision making, and we could have something.
I hope Jameis balls out in 2019 and gets his extension, rightfully earned.
I hate that the Bucs are so bad. Hopefully this year is better. Good thing Licht likes to draft trench players with JPP’s injury… oh wait… 😢 it’s a Bucs life
#Laughingstock of the NFL.
May 11th, 2019 at 11:57 pm
Bonzai,
No sir!
Fitzmagic won more than Jameis. Fitzmagic won a road game- @ Nola. It’s been years since Jameis has won a road game.
Thanks, but no thanks! Let’s see this year!
May 12th, 2019 at 10:40 am
Joe says “it’s a big year for James”………..Groundhog Day. All over again.
May 12th, 2019 at 2:03 pm
“On paper, the Defense is already much better”
How do you figure that when our starting DL right now consists of Vea, Nassib and Gholston?
Don’t think those names are striking fear in any QB or OC’s minds….
May 12th, 2019 at 3:05 pm
You Winston supporters are so funny. Hmm maybe in year five he will play better and stop giving the ball away. FSU fans I get it but the rest of you just take way to long to believe he is who he has shown you he is for 4 long and painful years. But another year we get to watch him struggle and some will blame everyone but him.
May 13th, 2019 at 9:08 am
Amen Dan, amen.