Trading Up Not Awful
April 23rd, 2019
Grab a biscuit?
Yesterday Joe brought word that it seems the Jets are hellbent on trading back from the No. 3 pick.
Joe suggested maybe the Bucs ought to think this possibility through. Joe got roasted for it by readers.
Maybe some of Joe’s readers ought to think this through.
The Bucs the past decade or so have been more often than not miserable drafting in the second round. It’s like a curse. Joe decided to dig up every second round pick the Bucs had since Chucky came on board.
2003: Dewayne White, DE
2005: Barrett Ruud, LB
2006: Jeremy Trueblood, RT
2007: Arron Sears, G
2007: Sabby the Goat, S
2008: (The bad) Dexter Jackson, WR
2010: Brian Price, DT
2010: Arrelious Benn, WR
2011: Da’Quan Bowers, DE
2012: Lavonte David, LB
2013: Johnthan Banks, CB
2014: Austin Seferian-Jackwagon, TE
2015: Donovan Smith, OT
2015: Ali Marpet, G
2016: Noah Spence, DE
2016: Roberto Aguayo, K
2017: Justin Evans, S
2018: Ronald Jones II, RB
2018: M.J. Stewart, CB
2018: Carlton Davis, CB
Not exactly a bunch of dudes waiting to have their busts in Canton, is it?
The Bucs have a coach who likes to brag about “No risk it, no biscuit.” If the Bucs really believe Quinnen Williams or Nick Bosa or Josh Allen will be a terror for opposing quarterbacks for the next decade, why not trade up with the Jets and offer them a second-round pick?
You think the Dixie Chicks are crying themselves to sleep at night for trading up to draft Julio Jones?
If the Bucs really believe one of those three defensive linemen can turn this team around, go get your man. Given the Bucs’ history, that second-round pick on Friday night is just as likely to flame out as he is to reach his second Bucs contract.
April 23rd, 2019 at 9:03 am
So you use “failed” 2nd round picks as an excuse to trade up? Wow. Another reach of stupidity.
April 23rd, 2019 at 9:04 am
The ONLY guarantee by trading up is that you won’t have a 2nd round pick….
April 23rd, 2019 at 9:09 am
If the Bucs have the looser mentality that they can not get a good player in the 2nd round then it is time for regime change before this regime even got started.
April 23rd, 2019 at 9:09 am
Sabby the goat and the bad dexter Jackson may be the worst picks in buc history (back to back 2nd rounders )
April 23rd, 2019 at 9:11 am
Bird Says:
April 23rd, 2019 at 9:09 am
Sabby the goat and the bad dexter Jackson may be the worst picks in buc history (back to back 2nd rounders )
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it is not the round
it is the decision makers
April 23rd, 2019 at 9:11 am
Dont be so negative Joe. Bucs need all the help they can get
April 23rd, 2019 at 9:13 am
Number 3 may not be high enough to get Bosa in a Bucs uniform.
April 23rd, 2019 at 9:13 am
Total nonsense on so many levels. Keep in mind Joe is probably the only outlet anywhere that treats every post in the same manner no matter the topic. Everything gets the same level of play. Joe shares and moves on.–Joe
April 23rd, 2019 at 9:17 am
Joe you are going to stick to your guns no matter what (see the nickname of our QB) so keep beating the drum we should trade up and/or stay away from White. Your opinion is worth the same as ours but no way you can justify giving up a starter like 1/2 the guys you list to move up.
April 23rd, 2019 at 9:23 am
While almost everyone else seems to be in favor of trading DOWN to garner MORE picks because we desperately NEED more starter-capable players, why in the world would you Joe propose trading UP (has to be done early) and giving up picks so that we can select a player who’ll likely walk after Year 4?
You’re sounding more and more desperate Joe. BUILD THE CENTER OF THE DEFENSE with a DT & MLB … in whatever order the best players fall. Throw in a Guard & RB in the Top-4 Rnds and at least we’d have a chance for a winning season.
April 23rd, 2019 at 9:27 am
And Joe, the Bucs miserable drafting in the 2nd Rnd is NOT “like a curse”. It’s P-Poor player selection, as in ‘crummy drafting’. That falls squarely on the shoulders of our current & previous GMs. Of course, if they were both werewolves then it MIGHT be a curse. But I’ll stick with ‘crummy drafting’.
April 23rd, 2019 at 9:28 am
How is my post nonsense and your article isn’t?
How is 1 pick in 2 rounds better than 2-3?……ESPECIALLY WHEN YOUR TEAM ISN’T ONE PLAYER AWAY AND YOU ARE NOT TRADING UP FOR A QB???
Then you go on to say “no risk, no biscuit” while at the same time acting scared to draft a 2nd rounder. Seems kind of hypocritical to me.
April 23rd, 2019 at 9:29 am
This is why I thought a trade for Landon Collins, if you could get him to sign a contract would have been a good trade for a 2nd round pick
April 23rd, 2019 at 9:30 am
Bosa didn’t even play last year. Remember his brother held out when he was drafted even tho rookies are slotted? The Bosa’s are not blue collar hard workers, they’re talented players, but will sit out if they’re not 100%, I don’t believe Bosa is the ultimate team player, and leader the Bucs want.
April 23rd, 2019 at 9:32 am
Need a quantity of players on this barren roster. No place to trade up and further deplete. If Q.Williams is not sitting there at #5, trade down makes sense and yes, Licht can load up on 2nd round hits 🙂
April 23rd, 2019 at 9:32 am
2 day minicamp starts this afternoon
Hope everyone shows
McCoy won’t
Jpp won’t
But everyone else
April 23rd, 2019 at 9:32 am
Trade up for who?…….
Sit at 5 or trade down….we have cap issues….need draft picks to fill in at cheaper rookie contract rates.
Don’t trade up and give up picks, stupid!!!
April 23rd, 2019 at 9:35 am
Would love if we traded down twice in 1st rd and end up with 4 picks in top 64. Tons of good players in the first two rounds at positions of need such as: DE, DT, RB, OL, LB. I think there is a chance a solid d’lineman falls a bit in 1st rd. Not one of the top dogs, but one of the second tier guys. If not, we could still grab a very good o’lineman in 1st rd, and then have 3 2nd rd picks to look at remaining LB, RB, CB, DE, DT, OL etc. This crazy scenario would at least make draft night interesting and overall would reload the rosters lack of depth in multiple areas.
April 23rd, 2019 at 9:40 am
I will be happy with Quinnen, White, or Oliver.
If just one QB goes in the top 5 and Kyler Murray appears to be that guy, the odds are great one of those three will be there.
Talk of trading up is premature. The ONLY way one of those three guys is not there is if the other teams pass on Bosa and Allen.
I’m like Hodad about Bosa…thanks but no thanks. Allen looks like Spence 2.0 to me. Hence my top three picks. ONE of those guys WILL be available so trading up conversations are premature at this point.
April 23rd, 2019 at 9:48 am
Hey joes
Is 2 day minicamp open to media?
Or closed doors?
April 23rd, 2019 at 9:50 am
No, no, no.
On second thought, no.
These are all likely to be available at our various picks. Draft:
Devin White (LB)
Dalton Risner (OT)
Jachai Polite (Edge)
Trysten Hill (IDL)
Devine Ozigbo (RB)
Deshaun Davis (LB)
Darius West (S)
That would be a nice haul.
April 23rd, 2019 at 9:50 am
Get josh Allen by any means necessary
April 23rd, 2019 at 9:52 am
“IF” the Jags are shopping Ramsey I’d switch 1st round positions with them then throw in a 2nd to acquire him.
April 23rd, 2019 at 9:53 am
I have questions in the back of my mind about Bosa….of those projected before the Bucs pick he is the one I’d pass/trade down with…just something I can’t put my finger on about not playing last year…
April 23rd, 2019 at 9:54 am
Past performance is not indicative of future results.
Draft picks are all lottery tickets, we need more of them, not less.
April 23rd, 2019 at 9:55 am
I’d only trade up to 3 if Williams or Bosa are still available, otherwise i’d hold on to 5 and pick either Allen or Oliver. GMC would likely be part of the trade.
April 23rd, 2019 at 10:00 am
Have to disagree with you Joe.. You can’t throw away 2nd round picks just because you’ve had a string of bad choices in that round. Going from 5 up to 3 only makes sense if you’re trying to grab the QB of your future. If not you stay put or move back when you have a roster in need of multiple starters.
April 23rd, 2019 at 10:04 am
It’s a no brainer to give up the second round pick to move up to the Jets’ pick at #3. If Williams is still there you say please and thank you to the Jets and get it done immediately. To hell with what these moronic fans have to say on the matter. If you can get a guy who’s ranked higher than Gerald McCoy was when he came out of college and you’re gonna have that guy as your 3-tech DT for a decade to come you do it. Period. Damn, some of you are just stupid as hell.
April 23rd, 2019 at 10:12 am
STOP the nonsense, ideas like this along with thinking Revis was a good move and then going after jonny football and the best one you kept running last year was the OL is awesome. STOP! the OL sucked the past few years and is going to suck again this year. The bucs are so far away from giving away picks. The Julio comparison is false due to the falcons being a playoff team, the bucs are a cellar dweller and need players, good players. Licht should be fired as he is responsible for this mess
April 23rd, 2019 at 10:13 am
I’d like to see s trade up for Williams.
Best player in the draft.
April 23rd, 2019 at 10:16 am
Last year’s trade down was genius.
They should have just turned on the boob tube and Mel Kiper would have told them to choose Derwin James, Derrius Guice, Donte Jackson, and Carlton Davis.
Those picks were no brainers and covered their needs. The Glazers should have fired Licht and the whole scouting department.
April 23rd, 2019 at 10:27 am
Arian Nation Says:
April 23rd, 2019 at 10:16 am
Last year’s trade down was genius.
They should have just turned on the boob tube and Mel Kiper would have told them to choose Derwin James, Derrius Guice, Donte Jackson, and Carlton Davis.
Those picks were no brainers and covered their needs. The Glazers should have fired Licht and the whole scouting department.
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Jason swings for the fences…like Al Davis and Bobby Beathard used to…have a need to prove how clever they are…Tortoise and the Hare syndrome
April 23rd, 2019 at 10:29 am
Trade up to #3. Best move of Licht’s career if he has the balls to do it. Quinnen Williams is the best 3-tech DT to come out since Aaron Donald.
Or stay at #5 and take an inferior player like Oliver, Sweat, White, etc.
April 23rd, 2019 at 10:31 am
@FLBoyinDallas…is right. When accurately looking at the level of specimen that Quinnen Williams is for the next decade plus, and how affordable and crucial THAT building block would be, you absolutely move UP for Quinnen ONLY.
He was also correct about the futile moronic philosophical viewpoints that simply aggregating players in rounds 2 and 3 turns a team around by more than a game or two. It doesn’t. Aggregating quality players works for quality stud coaching enterprises (Seattle, NE, Baltimore, Chiefs). The Bucs are NOT a draft and develop franchise. Not even with now BA + Bowles and company.
Its also not about being “one player away” either. THIS FRANCHISE…needs one thing more than anything, and definitely in the FIRST round. ….DIFFERENCE-MAKERS.
Someone who can take over a game. A Saquon Barkley. A Khalil Mack. A Quinnen Williams. In this draft, a Quinnen Williams ONLY.
Make the pick a 2020 second and 5th rounders, if Maccagnan in NY will listen.
April 23rd, 2019 at 10:36 am
The whole draft changes if AZ Cards do not select a QB with the 1st pick. And The
Raiders? Well we know, they never do the expected. So this could get real interesting come Thursday. Bucs might not be picking that LB like we think.
April 23rd, 2019 at 10:38 am
Omac Says:
“Another reach of stupidity.”
(((((((((((
Your description of your appearance here….
We agree.
April 23rd, 2019 at 10:43 am
“IF” Jalen Ramsey is available for trade I’d switch 1st rounders with the Jags and throw in a 2nd rounder.
April 23rd, 2019 at 10:50 am
stay put….
imo, bosa or QW will fall….if not, select ed oliver followed by jachi polite(R2) and a G(elgton jenkins-R3)
#REALISTKNOWSNOTHING!!!!!…GO BUCS!!!!!
April 23rd, 2019 at 11:01 am
Stay at 5 or trade back …preferably ill take oliver at 5
April 23rd, 2019 at 11:08 am
This is scary sad logic.
“We should trade away draft picks because we are incompetent in the draft”
Just sell the team then. Seriously. If this is how you feel then sell the team and give up.
The logic should be that the player we trade up for is a generational player that could transform the team and is worth giving up another starter for. I can get behind that.
Q Will is the only guy I consider in that class tho; and for just a 2 spot move a 2nd round pick is kind of insane.
For one – the Jets must not be as high on him to be willing to move –
second – who the h3ll else are we even bidding against if no one is trying to go up for a QB?
I’m OK with trading up if the capital isn’t a 2nd or 3rd. GIve them a 4th this year and next if anything.
We NEED to rebuild this defense through the draft badly given our current cap/team makeup / age of the team / etc. The 2019/2020 drafts are EXTREMELY critical in terms of nailing a ton of picks to rebuild that unit
IF this is all going to work out with BA. That is the key
#1-Winston solidifying to where we can all accept he is our franchise QB
#2-rebuilding the defense into a respectable and hopefully better-than-average unit
April 23rd, 2019 at 11:10 am
So approximately 1/2 of the 2nd round picks have been productive with last year’s picks jury still out.
I wouldn’t judge any 2nd round picks in last 3 years considering the pathetic coaching staff Bucs had
Draft is better than free agency, but it is still better than free agents.
The more high draft picks the better the odds of hitting on talent who can play at pro level
April 23rd, 2019 at 11:21 am
Licht 9 second round picks
2 for sure busts (Aguayo / ASJ) – 22%
4 for sure starters/major contributors this year (Ali Marpet / Calrton Davis / Donavon Smith / Justin Evans) – 44%
3 role time / part time players that could either wind up as busts or contributors (MJ Stewart / Ronald Jones / Noah Spence)
So he’s basically batting around 50% which is league average in R2.
If somehow 2 out of those above 3 guys pan out he’s above average in R2.
April 23rd, 2019 at 11:35 am
Who made the picks & who coached them???
NFL TALENT is spread pretty = across the board…What organizations fail at (all the time) is seeing who the players REALLY WILL BE, once they have some coin & time on their hands to explore all the NFL lifestyle has to offer.
Knowing which players are MEN that are ready to be professionals (or KIDS that aren’t) is where the Bucs FO has failed repeatedly.
Taking talent over maturity, gets coaches & FO’s replaced every year!
Trade back from #5 & gain picks – sounds good on paper …But those picks are only good if the amassed players works out to = more than the #5 alone. (It’s always a gamble…You just don’t know if your getting an Adam Gaines or a Quentin Nelson!)
April 23rd, 2019 at 11:55 am
Not trying to defend GM’s But I look at list of 2nd rounders and in a lot of cases based on college performance, 1st round grades dropping into 2nd RD, (Value picks) and most recent unknowns under new coaching staff, I say unless you have a crystal ball or your last name is Belecheat several of those picks look pretty solid and if I recall with a few exceptions (Aquayo) most of the fans were onboard and happy. Of course “Hindsight,” is 20-20. So while many are screaming “I told you so,” a rare few may actually have room to throw stones. Old timers remember!
April 23rd, 2019 at 12:04 pm
worst idea ever
If your guy isn’t there at 5 hopefully you can trade down for an extra pick or two
AND NO to D. White at 5 JUST NO
April 23rd, 2019 at 12:05 pm
Just not for Bosa.
Kid has bust written all over him.
April 23rd, 2019 at 12:40 pm
Look… If you are so scared of 2nd round picks… just drop back in the first, then take the two second round picks and package them to get back into the first round… This is THE THING….
Trade back a few spots, pick up Montez Sweat at worst, then move up and pick up the best Guard on the board or if Jonah Williams slips, maybe the RT of the future. I LOVE Q. Williams, but I would rather have Montez Sweat and Jonah Williams…… Last year’s draft would look so much better if you just switch Stewart for Isaiah Oliver or Dontae Jackson, or switch out Stewart and Rojo for Nick Chubb.
April 23rd, 2019 at 12:49 pm
One player will not fix this crap show of a defense. You need multiple players on multiple levels to turn this Titanic around. Did JPP make this defense any better? Uh NO!
Great draft for defensive players. Trade back!
April 23rd, 2019 at 1:04 pm
Martinii… go back and look at Belicheck’s late first/second round picks over the last 3-4 seasons… Most are not making it to year 3. Licht’s picks look solid (not outstanding but solid) in comparison.
nm… here’s the list
2018. 1st: Michel (very solid), 2nd: Duke Dawson (IR most of season),
2017 1st and 3rd: trade for Brandin Cooks (made it one season with team) 2nd trade for Kony Ealy (waived before season started)
2016 1st: (forfeited, deflategate, Brady suspended first 3 games)
2nd: Cyrus Jones played in 10 games rookie season, year two IR, year three waived
2015 1st: Malcom Brown, solid player, Pats declined 5th year option, now with Saints
2nd: Jordan Richards, traded in 2018 for a conditional 7th round pick
2014 1st Dominique Easley… looked good but outright released after two seasons
2nd Jimmy Garropolo traded for the 2018 2nd round pick that was traded several times to get multiple picks including a 2019 pick.
Just tell me how good the Pats draft. Belicheck and Brady are just flat out witches when it comes to cobbling a group of guys together and fitting them in their team concept. Keep going the drafts aren’t much better.
April 23rd, 2019 at 2:19 pm
Horrible drafts from chucky are no surprise and neither is all the losing under two first time genera managers and coaches. It makes complete sense that we have so many failures in the draft but we have a hood coach in place and licht will either seal his fate as a gm or hit home runs and get that contract. I’m hoping he hits a grand slam and so should all the haters that don’t like him. I bet a lot of people here would rather see him fail in the draft just to get a new gm in place
April 23rd, 2019 at 3:06 pm
How did we get into this mess?! Inquiring minds want to know!
April 23rd, 2019 at 6:07 pm
@Jackwagon.. If you’re not a draft and develop franchise than you’ll never be a winning franchise. So you can not say the Bucs shouldn’t try. Of course they should try! They’re trying now.. maybe not succeeding, but they’re trying to draft and develop every year.
April 23rd, 2019 at 9:18 pm
Hey, if Bosa were still available at 3, I would consider trading up to get him, but he won’t be.
Since the draft is almost here and the same ol’ sh*t keeps getting discussed everywhere over and over, here’s one I haven’t heard discussed yet Joe:
What about Murray to the Bucs at 5? What if AZ passes on him and the next 3 teams stick with those Big-3 DL-men that everyone claims are sure Pro-Bowlers? What if the Bucs were secretly considering taking Murray if he’s still there at 5?
That’s one way to tell Winston that it’s time this year to prove he’s our franchise QB, or he will be gone next year and the Bucs would have a new QB in 2020. Murray is a new millennial version of Steve Young, and we all know how well he did AFTER playing for the Bucs.
What say you Joe?
April 23rd, 2019 at 10:08 pm
Cal:
The Bucs are not drafting a quarterback in the first round.
April 23rd, 2019 at 11:35 pm
I agree Joe, just bored with the endless chatter and ready for the draft.
Either of Williams, Allen or Oliver works for me.