Edge Rush > ILB
April 6th, 2019
You cannot be this braindead!
In a passing league, why would one prefer a run-stuffer?
The most important element of a defense in the 21st century is getting heat on a quarterback. It’s not even debatable. Bucs fans should know this all too well.
Just a few years ago, dying on the vine for a pass rush in part because some two-bit Tom Landry decided to run off Michael Bennett for no good reason, the desperate Bucs made the call to beef up the secondary and hoped to stop the pass that way.
It didn’t work.
Yet as we crawl towards the draft later this month, Joe actually reads both reasoned people and fools suggest the Bucs should use their No. 5 overall pick to draft an inside linebacker, even though very likely an edge rusher for a generation will be on the board.
Joe simply does… not… get… it.
This team has been impotent about rushing the passer ever since Simeon Rice left 11 years ago. And for the most part, the Bucs’ defense has been a complete and total horror show since.
Does anyone with an IQ over 60 want to take a guess why that might be?
Yet folks willfully ignore this and think it’s still 1971 and that an inside linebacker will turn this gutless defense around.
Child, please!
How important is an edge rusher? Well, Jerry Jones yesterday decided to give DeMarcus Lawrence some $21 million a year for the next five years. Trust Joe, Lawrence is going to get paid more than any inside linebacker in the NFL. He’s probably getting paid more than Jerry Jones’ son Stephen, who is the team’s de facto general manager.
That can buy a whole lot of Texas brisket.
So why would Jerry Jones throw that kind of cash at Lawrence? Simple: A top-shelf edge rusher is that valuable.
Joe just wants to throw up thinking that the Bucs will pass on an edge rusher at No. 5 to draft a middle linebacker. It’s an obscene thought if not grossly irresponsible. There is a reason why an inside linebacker hasn’t been drafted in the top-five in 26 years (Marvin Jones in 1993).
The Bucs simply cannot be this misguided, can they?
April 6th, 2019 at 8:08 am
We drafted a QB 1st overall…. how’s that going for the team?
April 6th, 2019 at 8:08 am
I am so with you on this Joe. So many of your readers keep saying that it is a deep draft for defensive lineman. What edge guy does anyone expect to be available in round 2. Maybe Polite who runs a 4.8 and has personality concerns. Who else? You don’t get a chance at an edge rusher too often. Go for one this year. If you still want an inside linebacker, select Mack Wilson in the 2nd.
April 6th, 2019 at 8:09 am
If Q. Williams or J. Allen is there available go for them. If not White is my pick. Who will cover Kamara and McCarthy out the backfield? Best Player Available is the pick. Not crazy to plug a real leader and playmaker to be the QB of your defense! Come on Joe!
April 6th, 2019 at 8:11 am
McCafrey or whatever his name is ( Panthers RB )
April 6th, 2019 at 8:13 am
I would also like a potential elite pass rusher if that player is available at 5. That being said, an inside linebacker is not just a run stuffer. There is nothing precluding a LB from being a great pass rusher also. Additionally, a linebacker can help in coverage as well. As Joe pointed out it’s not 1971. No one wants a 1971 linebacker Joe.
April 6th, 2019 at 8:14 am
If Q.williams or J. Allen is not available i truly believe D. White is the next best available talent, Butttt i would still take DT Ed Oliver before him as well! So either on of these guys i would be cool with and at the end of the day TRUE fans just want to see our team WIN consistently #GOBUCS
April 6th, 2019 at 8:21 am
%100 agree
April 6th, 2019 at 8:25 am
I am with ya, JOE.
Let’s GET AN EDGE RUSHER.
April 6th, 2019 at 8:30 am
You are border line ridiculous with this continued put down about Devin White @ #5 pick. If Bucco Bruce feels you have a game changing leader of the Ray Lewis type. That you can stick in the middle of the defense for the next 10 years. You go get him. I won’s shed any tears of we get one of the Rush Ends that will be there at 5. But stop crying about Devin White, dudes a baller.
And aren’t you the same one who bitches about the Bucs drafting Mark Barron in 2012. And passing up on Luke Kuechly??? A top 10 pick inside linebacker
April 6th, 2019 at 8:32 am
How about we just get a really good player? I mean I would love a great pass rusher as well BUT would I rather have a ok pass rusher or a all pro linebacker if those are the two options? Give me the all pro linebacker if that’s the choice.
April 6th, 2019 at 8:34 am
To me, the 1st sentence of the article is why you dont get it. ILB are more than “run-stuffers” in todays league. TEs and RBs are evolving and becoming more and more involved in the passing game. Having a LB that has speed and athleticism to cover them is a valuable asset. Plus we will be blitzing more often.
Its crazy how overblown sacks are as a stat. Lawrence played 734 snaps last year and 10 resulted in actually tackling the QB.
Meanwhile, McCaffrey caught 107 passes and 86% of his targets last year. Kamara caught 81 passes and 77% of his targets. And falcons are getting Freeman back healthy and Falcons RBs combined for 65 catches on 85 targets without him.
Saying drafting Devin White is a mistake because they can miss out on a guy who can tackle the QB 10 times a year (if we are lucky) sounds silly to me in the grand scheme of things.
April 6th, 2019 at 8:35 am
Preach my brother!
April 6th, 2019 at 8:37 am
Well…..QUINNEN WILLIAMS. Discussion handled.
And isn’t it funny, how the Cowboys kept and paid a really good player in Lawrence….using a $25 million signing bonus!! Geee, what a novel idea. A team that has 3 other big player contracts coming up very soon in Zeke, Prescott, and Cooper. Using a large signing bonus to spread out the cap hits over many future years….there’s only 31 teams doing the same thing to keep AND IMPROVE their roster!
Not the Bucs. Cause Bryan Glazer “knows better”. So he told Scott Reynolds in a long piece at PR. Bryan mentioned working on this new principle many years ago with Greenberg/Licht.
Because the Bucs…know better. Right.
April 6th, 2019 at 8:40 am
I’m not in the edge rush or bust category but I value the Dline in this draft other than a straight up 0 technique NT. Being said, the LB have been so bad in their drops over the past few seasons, having one that could make a few plays on the ball would be a great boon. I’m not positive White is that player with one INT over his college career. Derrick Brooks by contrast had 5 which carried into his professional career. Top 5 LBs are kind of like top 5 guards to me. I’m not against one, but he’d better be really spectacular. Not just superior athletically
April 6th, 2019 at 8:40 am
Joe, its quite simple actually.
There are those who don’t see a surefire ‘generational’ Edge Rusher after Bosa or Allen.
The remaining Edge rushers have question marks and there is zero consensus as to who the third best is.
You’ve made a case for Sweat, is that your ‘generational’ pick at 5?
April 6th, 2019 at 8:40 am
If the player is a perrinial all pro, outside of kicker Jason! – then I believe position is less important – a la the beast G from Indy –
If Allen or Bosa falls to us, awesome – if not, don’t reach, take the guy that punches the all pro ticket – even if it’s a DT or a LB
The other thing is Whites speed, he isn’t Urlacher at 30 playing in a passing league- the kid runs like a deer, he can play inside or out, play the run and cover – he and LVD together never come off the field
But maybe it’s QWilliams
Take the best PLAYER available
Peace ✌️
April 6th, 2019 at 8:41 am
I’d rather have a OG or OT than ILB @ 5….
April 6th, 2019 at 8:42 am
Dallas also has arguably the best young group of LBs in the league –
It’s the chicken or the egg theory!
What’s an edge rusher gonna do if you can stop the run or stop RBs or TEs over the middle?
But then again you can’t survive without a pass rush – also whenever they pick will need to be groomed and develop.
Relax Lee it will be okay!
April 6th, 2019 at 8:43 am
Best Player Available please! If Bosa, Allen and Williams are off the board I have no problem with White or trading back and trying to get Sweat or Oliver a little later and picking up an extra pick or two.
April 6th, 2019 at 8:46 am
So Devin White is clearly fine with me if the Bucs and the readers above are correct in comparing him favorably to Ray Lewis and Luke Kuechly. Athletically he is probably ahead of those guys. The concerns on Devin White are more about his mental processing of plays and his mis-reading of play action. So I think those comparisons are probably misplaced. Think more CJ Mosley in processing skills.
April 6th, 2019 at 8:50 am
Great points JoeyPop!
April 6th, 2019 at 8:50 am
I saw an (unrealistic) interesting mock yesterday where 3 QBs were selected ahead of the 5th overall pick. The result was both Josh Allen and Quinnen Williams were still on the board when the Bucs were up. Just typing that makes me laugh – we should be so lucky.
Which one would you pick? A ‘possible’ generation pass rusher or the next ‘potential’ Aaron Donald?
In this mock, the Bucs chose Williams and Allen fell to the Giants.
April 6th, 2019 at 8:51 am
White looks fast, tough, hard hitting. He seems like a great teammate. But if you watch his tape he seems to also take bad angles and misses tackles at times. Here’s a link that I think explains it well for me. Not saying he’s not gonna be good but he might not be good.
https://youtu.be/-dV4t663pPQ
April 6th, 2019 at 8:53 am
I hear you about the edge rusher Joe, but with Bowles defense I suspect White would be a constant threat to blitz. If we could get Williams sure, but otherwise I’d go with White. The guy has it all.
Typical Jason Gump scenario: he drafts Sweat and we find out in preseason the guy has more serious heart problems than the Bucs thought. It’s a Bucs life……
April 6th, 2019 at 9:05 am
How could fool not realize this team just pony’d up 5 mill to Shaq Barret who graded over 70 in run stopping and pass rushing over the last few seasons thusly an edge rusher isn’t the most pressing need in the up coming draft. Not to mention how could a fool not realize in this 3/4 scheme DE’s are not expected to be prior position bringing pressure on QBs the LBing Corp as a whole is. How can a fool that covers football for living not be aware of this.
April 6th, 2019 at 9:09 am
Fans of other teams that visit this site have to feel Bucs fan are dumbest in the league to not be able to differentiate the differences between 3/4 and 4/3. When they read my post I’m making sure they know at least a few understand. The people that facilitate the site clearly are among the foolish.
April 6th, 2019 at 9:11 am
Ndog Says:
“How about we just get a really good player?”
~~~~~~~
Yea Ndog, I guess there is always that, lol.
April 6th, 2019 at 9:12 am
You want the 3rd best DE onthe board over the best lb! Unless one of the top 3 fall due to two qb pick it will and should be Devin White!!! Who will have over 10 sacks it’s a 3/4 silly!!!!! You rather reach for a player! Smells like Johnny Manziel lol glad your not in charge!
April 6th, 2019 at 9:18 am
NOSBOS Says:
“When (fans of other teams) read my post I’m making sure they know at least a few (Bucs fans) understand.”
(((((((((((((((((((
Well aren’t we just so lucky? – Eyes roll.
Get over yourself. You are sitting at home typing like everyone else.
April 6th, 2019 at 9:19 am
@Geno. That may be the case,it is my belief that’s why BA came right out and said day 1 “Levante David is my middle LBr”. That will allow Devin White to play free of adjusting players,making checks and play calls. Thusly allowing him to utilize his skill set and play more freely exercising more of his instincts as a rookie.
April 6th, 2019 at 9:21 am
As others are saying.. the edge rushers available would be burns and sweat.. and you definitely don’t take sweat at 5. Before his combine, sweat was mid to late first. Burns has more ability so that’s an option.. but anyway it’s really more about DLine entirely over ILB. And we SHOULD NOT be passing on Ed Oliver to take a ILB.. Oliver could very well be the best player in the draft. He’s in the same tier as the top 3 guys
April 6th, 2019 at 9:22 am
Z31 don’t feel bad bro,you must be one of the ones having trouble mentally grasping the new 3/4 concept. If so don’t worry about it bro. You’ll better understand when the season kicks off.
April 6th, 2019 at 9:25 am
I pray Williams,Oliver,Allen and White are all still available when the Bucs pick so you all can find out which is more important schematically to this coaching staff.
April 6th, 2019 at 9:25 am
Gaawwwdd please let that happen.
April 6th, 2019 at 9:27 am
Pepsi Says:
“Ed Oliver could very well be the best player in the draft.”
~~
There are several in the national media, Pepsi, that agree with you. I have definitely had my eyes opened recently to what kind of wrecking ball that guy could be.
April 6th, 2019 at 9:31 am
A player with bad balance,no hand technique and considered smallish for the position is considered by many the best in the draft??? Wow. This must be a weak draft class then.
April 6th, 2019 at 9:31 am
Just for the record, Jerry Jones edge rusher was a 2nd round pick.
April 6th, 2019 at 9:33 am
It’s all smoke screen we definitely getting a Edge rusher
April 6th, 2019 at 9:33 am
Simply YouTube Ed Oliver film session. See highlights show all the explosive money making plays. Film sessions give you the overall break down. Oliver’s frequent poor balance gets him planted on his face mask far to often.
April 6th, 2019 at 9:33 am
Joe got over us not taking Manzeil. Joe will get over us taking a stud LB.
April 6th, 2019 at 9:34 am
Definitely hear ya Nosbos, but apparently several were saying the same about Aaron Donald coming out of Pitt.
April 6th, 2019 at 9:35 am
Not to mention Kidd he is 4/3 edge rushing DE. But like Pop stated in his post 700+ snaps actually tackled the QB 10 times. Whoopdy doo.
April 6th, 2019 at 9:36 am
Demon bro they are no where near the same coming out school. Only in appearance. Check the film session.
April 6th, 2019 at 9:39 am
When I first take interest in a player I go to the highlights like anyone else. But when I get the notion he could possibly join the Bucs I type name and film session .
April 6th, 2019 at 9:42 am
I put a link on here the other day of Shaq Barret film. There isn’t an edge rusher entering this class better at edge rushing than Shaq Barret right now. Maybe they’ll learn the skills and techniques he’s showing in that session over time. But right now one of them better. Not Allen not Bosa not Gary not sweat not a one of them.
April 6th, 2019 at 9:43 am
Nosbos, not arguing with ya man. I am definitely not an expert. Just sharing what some nationally are saying about Oliver.
But to be totally honest with ya, there are other things about Oliver that concern me.
You know how it is this time of year. You start to make a case in your mind for several different guys, even some that you previously discounted, lol.
April 6th, 2019 at 9:43 am
Pepsi, I agree with you about Oliver. He and Williams may be the 2 best players in the draft. I’d be happy with either of them but NOSBOS is correct. Our fans are very caught up in replacing McCoy but a 3-4 doesn’t employ 2 DTs. Yes there will be 4 down linemen 70% of the time but they are usually 3 linebackers and a NT. DE, which is what McCoy would play, rarely is called on to rush the passer. The exceptions are Donald and Watt who can rush the passer from any position and are moved around to create match up problems.
April 6th, 2019 at 9:45 am
Stop getting worked up over mock drafts. No one except media types have said that is the pick. No one at advent health is telling media and fans what the team feels it’s biggest weakness is, people have already guessed for themselves which is why I love the draft. No matter how wrong people are they still operate under the assumption that their mock board has some kind of meaning. Love listening to kipper say a team didn’t do what he think they should have and picked the wrong player, it’s the height of psychotic behavior but it’s ok because he gets a check for it
April 6th, 2019 at 9:50 am
I share your enthusiasm about Shaq Barrett. I think he is going to be great with us, and I really wish we had done longer than a 1 year deal.
April 6th, 2019 at 9:51 am
^ Last one was to Nosbos
April 6th, 2019 at 9:52 am
What edge rusher of a generation will be on the board at 5? If Allen or Bosa are there, then the Bucs should pull the trigger. I don’t know that Sweat, Oliver or Gary are generational edge rushers. Truth is nobody knows for sure what Oliver could do as an edge rusher. We do know that Gary had suspect college production. Sweat had good college production but not “generational”. If he had Ferguson’s production in the SEC, then Sweat would be “generational”. White (ILB or not) appears to be a generational player at his position. In addition, there is a huge drop from White to the next group of ILB,s. Most would agree that an edge rusher is more valuable to the Bucs than an ILB…but it’s simply a question of do they pick a non-generational edge rusher over a generational ILB. If they don’t trade down, then they should pick a White.
April 6th, 2019 at 9:53 am
Rd. 1 – Devin White
Rd. 2 – Jaylon Ferguson
Rd. 3 – best available OL or DB
Rd. 4 – trade GMC & 4th round pick for Duke Johnson and Cleveland’s 5th
Rd. 5 – Trade both 5th’s to get back in the 4th for BPA (OL or DB)
Rd. 6 –
April 6th, 2019 at 9:59 am
You’re slacking Joe. It’s 10am on an off-season Saturday morning and you only have 1 article posted. What’s amatta with you? Haha jk!!! Hope you’re cracking open a cold one and staring at Rachael Watson posters while chewing on some Abe’s wings in your Cadillac.
April 6th, 2019 at 10:11 am
Im good with Devin White at 5 if it were to happen, but a trade down and taking Devin Bush makes more sense to me. The gap between them is small and we can use the extra picks.
I saw a mock the other day that had us trading back to 11 and getting an extra 2 and 3.
1) Devin Bush, ILB, Michigan
2a) Jefferey Simmons, DT, Mississippi State
2b) Chris Lindstrom, IOL, Boston College
3a) Taylor Rapp, S, Washington
3b) Christian Miller, EDGE, Alabama
This would be my dream start to the draft.
April 6th, 2019 at 10:12 am
I guess I can’t comment on our #1 overall pick
April 6th, 2019 at 10:16 am
I can’t get over the close-mindedness of this article. Bosa Williams and Allen are the consensus safest picks. And although this has been discussed before, how is taking a top 3 de/olb better than taking the best mlb to come out in years? There are holes at both positions. White isn’t an average mlb and I think you’re overlooking that. How can you undervalue the playcaller on defense so much Joe? I’d say Luke Lewis etc are top 5 picks. White is being compared to them by everyone.
I would not take sweat or gary over white. I would absolutely be happy with Oliver but besides him what edge rusher is that sure fire if the three aforementioned above are gone? The bust potential rises if that person isnt Oliver in my opinion.
If bowles/Arians/Licht pick white it’s gonna be hilarious to see the article that condescends their decision.
Of course a de is more valuable. Common sense. But an average de is not more than an elite mlb and the guys available depending on the how it unfolds are not going to assuredly have a bigger impact than white like you’re insinuating.
April 6th, 2019 at 10:18 am
Good LOrd.
In the 2020 NFL, an ILB is waaaaaaay more than a “run stuffer.”
Sheeesh…
April 6th, 2019 at 10:18 am
I don’t think any Panthers fans regret passing on a pass-rusher to draft Luke Kuechly…
April 6th, 2019 at 10:19 am
Rapp shouldn’t even be drafted after running a 4.7 40 unless he is moved to LB. At almost 40 years old I can run a 4.7 right now. Almost every receiving TE can burn him
April 6th, 2019 at 10:19 am
It’s kind of a sad commentary on the state of the NFL… they’ve in a sense simplified the game to be much more one dimensional.
If I were a GM I’d draft QB’s and DE’s exclusively, keep the best and trade the rest for the other positions you need. I bet you’d come out way ahead.
April 6th, 2019 at 10:25 am
Regardless of how misguided some may be who claim an ILB is not an impact player, the good news is the Bucs are going to draft an important defensive player in this draft.
It doesn’t matter if it’s Williams, White, Bosa, Allen or Oliver, whoever it is will be extremely helpful to this team.
April 6th, 2019 at 10:29 am
I can’t wait to look back at this post whenever we play the saints/panthers and see Kevin minter trailing 15 yards behind Kamara/Mcaffery en route for a 45 yd gain. Listen Ba has said “ we are going to win now “. The most win now player for us at our pick is Devin white . Does he stop the run ? (Yes) , Can he rush the passer when asked (yes) , Can he keep up with TE , Rbs and even slot wrs?(yes) , Does he fill a need ? (Yes). If Ba is actually looking to win now , this is who he’ll pick. Yes , I love Montez , Oliver and Burns they could all very well become 10+ sack players in the future. But when you look at Devin white he just fills to many needs on the defense and will suit Todd Bowles aggressive blitz you all 3 downs if I feel like it type defense.
April 6th, 2019 at 10:30 am
@WhatTheBuc
The 4.7 doesnt bother me. He can blitz, he is great against the run, great instincts, and he can actually cover TEs on his own. The 4.7 becomes a problem if a team puts him as a single high safety.
He has the versatility that Bowles is looking for and the 4.7 could cause him to slide into the 3rd where he will be a steal.
April 6th, 2019 at 10:34 am
Bowles…and BA have mentioned countless times how they will tailor the scheme, both 4/3 and 3/4 to whatever talent they have here. Stop obsessing over strictly 3/4 and it’s supposed setup for Bowles.
Also, if many of you out there of sound mind and body actually “think” that the Oliver kid (in his build, production against joke opponents, and lowlights on film) are somehow equal to Quinnen Williams, then you have no business rendering even the most amateur-est draft opinions here. Not having that discussion any longer.
And for soo many here (which I understand) that pine for Lindstrom as our RG fix, yes he is quite a player, but NO…he will not be chosen anywhere in the 2nd round. The word is completely out on him, and all teams drafting between #20 – #32 in round one that have good teams and prioritize the OLIne, already have fixated on Lindstrom there (see all worthless mocks updated). Those teams are wise to get him with the 5th year option at the bottom of the first. Our most likely hope MIGHT be Dalton Risner from Kansas State at the top of the second, MIGHT. But whoever misses out on Lindstrom, will then target Risner, if they don’t want a Center prospect specifically in the other stud, Garrett Bradbury.
There WILL BE QB trades in the top 5, not sure NYJ moving down at #3, or one trying to jump OAK if ARI does something stupid and picks Bosa somehow. But there will be at least 1 team laying low (my money is on CIN at #11) that will trade up ahead of #6 NYG….so yes, some blend of great players…will FALL.
Licht Land QUINNEN! Doesn’t matter how.
April 6th, 2019 at 10:35 am
Negative Nancy Says:
“It’s kind of a sad commentary on the state of the NFL… they’ve in a sense simplified the game to be much more one dimensional.”
~~~~
I could not agree MORE.
That and the fact that every fricking game now is 34-31. — I miss real football and 21-17 slugfests. Everyone enjoys a high scoring game now & then, but when it is seemingly EVERY game, it is no longer fun to me… or MY NFL.
Can you imagine if every NHL game was suddenly 7-6? It would no longer be special to see that kind of game.
Every NBA game 155-151…. is that what everyone wants?
Sorry but you struck a nerve, haha!
April 6th, 2019 at 10:45 am
@ChixDigScarz
Everything you said about Lindstrom reminds me of the Forrest Lamp talk from 2017. Everyone at this time that year had Lamp as a 1st round lock and he fell to the early 2nd. Players fall all the time for no rhyme or reason. Anything is possible.
April 6th, 2019 at 10:52 am
I would agree. Our pass rush….minus JPP….is woefully inadequate. Use this draft to fortify both lines. Somebody like Sweat or Oliver will be there for us….even if we were to trade back a few spots (if someone like Miami or Cincy wanted to move up for a QB), there will still be some excellent defensive players available. It’s not that ILB isn’t an important position….it is….but we have other more pressing needs at the moment.
Swing a deal for Duke Johnson and grab Ryan Nall from the Bears practice squad and we are set at RB. I wouldn’t be opposed to grabbing a QB in round 3 (Greir) just in case either. This is make it or break it year for the Winston experiment, and we need to be ready to move forward or move on from him next year depending on how he plays this season!
April 6th, 2019 at 10:54 am
Not sure anyone here actually said Oliver is better or even close to Williams lol. But to belittle oliver is silly. He did play at Houston and it’s common knowledge he was misused.
Willing to bet our pick loves horses lol.
April 6th, 2019 at 10:55 am
Bucs will miss out on a stud defensive player in this draft, it is inevitable because of so many talented players, problem with Buc fan, they will say we should’ve gotten whoever we didn’t get with the 5th pick, or if we trade back, they will say, we should’ve stayed and got that stud player at #5. Since we are not the Raiders with 3 picks, I would rather get the best player available t 5 (I think will be Devin White) and if you think you can get back in the first or trade next years first to get the player that adds to (like the Saints did with Davenport or ATL with Julio), get back in there and get the game changer. How close do you think your team is.
April 6th, 2019 at 10:55 am
Joes,
I really don’t know why you guys pigeonhole a Dominant ILB into being just a ‘run-stuffer’. LMAO to that one…
An ILB’s roles are:
1. Coordinate the defense on the field.
2. Read & React to the play call, whether it be a run or pass (unless he’s blitzing the QB on that play).
*reading & reacting to the play call consists of: crashing down/stuffing runs (by RB, Qb, or WR), covering pass routes (maybe his most important responsibility in today’s NFL), and then trying to make a splash play at the point of impact (fumble, strip, interception, pass breakup, Big Hit, etc)…
The Alpha-Dog ILB in a 3-4 scheme is absolutely the most impactful player on the field.
Draft White and we make the right decision, trust that.
April 6th, 2019 at 11:00 am
Light does this all the time. His last priority has been the trenches. 2nd and 3rd division players on the o-line. Run stuffers like Allen, Vea, Unrine or however you spell it. Players like Gholston and Spence have never been pass rushers but still here. He drafts a corner early in the second round and is already talking about him as a safety. Soft running backs.
Allen may be an outstanding linebacker but in a year filled with pass rushers and the Bucs needs it would be insanity not to finally address the obvious.
April 6th, 2019 at 11:17 am
Green Bay is desperate to replace Matthews at LB.
Maybe a trade down?
April 6th, 2019 at 11:22 am
For those clamoring that devin white makes to many mistakes …
He has played linebacker for 3 years only. Was a running back up to college. Never played linebacker and he is already that good. And he can sack QB. And he is fast enough to get to these running backs in nfc south.
His ceiling /upside is somewhere on the moon
April 6th, 2019 at 11:23 am
Well this is the Bucs so ofcourse they’ll do the stupid thing.
That’s the M. O. Of this stupid pathetic no good franchise.
April 6th, 2019 at 11:35 am
I’m not sure of the point of this article and others like it. It’s almost as if it’s written like the fans get a vote who this team will draft. How bout the Bucs just draft great players or maybe develop one or two? The draft is fun to watch but in the end it’s just a crap shoot for every team. The dude mentioned Lawrence was drafted in the second round.
April 6th, 2019 at 11:46 am
Great pass rushers will not slow down the Kamara’s and McCaffrey’s in the division.
Sideline-to-sideline ILBs would.
April 6th, 2019 at 11:57 am
If Williams is there – you take him. Bosa and Allen are also widely considered top 5 players and easy picks in the top of the 1st rd.
If those 3 players are off the board (more likely than not) – then the Bucs need to take the highest rated player on their board…. which is probably Devin White.
You don’t reach for position or “need” with the #5 overall pick unless you are without a starting QB and intend to draft one in the 1st rd.
You take the highest rated player on your board at a position of relative need and hope that your evaluations were correct.
How many Guards have been drafted top 6 in the last 20 years? 50 years? You think Indy was concerned with such things when they nabbed Nelson last year?
So who exactly is this “generational” pass rusher that Joe speaks of taking with the #5 pick? Please name the player instead of arguing positional “value”.
I see ONE “generational” talent in this draft. Q Williams. Its hard to find any weaknesses in his game coming out.
Bosa, Allen and White are all great talents with extremely productive tape. But that tape also reveals some minor weaknesses that each player will have to overcome in order to be ‘great’ in the NFL and thus worthy of a top 5 draft position. The same and some more could be said about Oliver and Sweat.
Bosa’s get off needs some work. Allen has speed off the edge all day but needs to improve at disengaging once a blocker gets their hands on him (which is a major strength of Bosa). White is the best MLB prospect since Kuechly (only faster) – but can be seen on some plays having some issues with “wrapping up” and with bad angles. (a familiar sight to Bucs fans of late).
Its all going to come down to the PLAYER that BA and Jason Licht like best if the Bucs are going to select at #5. Not position. Not perceived value. The PLAYER.
If you aren’t drafting a perennial Pro Bowler at #5 overall – then you “missed” on that pick if it wasn’t a QB.
Short of Williams being available at #5 – I think the best thing the Bucs could do is trade down out of the top 10 – pick up TWO extra 2nd and/or 3rd rd picks – and then grab Devin Bush in the 1st rd along with OG, DT, Edge, and OT in rds 2 & 3.
Hit well on 3 or 4 of those 5 high picks – and the Buccaneers just became a much more formidable team!
April 6th, 2019 at 12:19 pm
I fall on the side of edge rusher simply because (with the exception of JPP) we need to put pressure on the QB. And Considering we have had a rough 10 years without a big time pass rusher it has been the elusive position that has hurt us most. My problem is in a 3-4 scheme won’t one of the LB’s be blitzing on most downs anyway. My absolute favorite prospect is Allen from Kentucky. He is advertised as a Edge Rusher and a Linebacker. (17 Sacks) The Butkus award winning Devin White had 3 sacks in 2018. We need the Edge Rusher.
April 6th, 2019 at 12:57 pm
I’m a Jameis fan, but the year he went #1 he was not the highest rated player but we needed a QB, now we lack a defensive leader and all signs point to this kid being a Kwon-level leader…plus Oliver is a combine freak with under developed pass rush moves, sweat is a one year wonder with off the field red flags 🚩….so why reach for a player that should go later. Q, Bosa or Allen, THEN best available
April 6th, 2019 at 12:58 pm
Using that mentality, we did good to pass on Luke Kuechly, right ?
April 6th, 2019 at 1:09 pm
I’ll say it like I say it every year. It’s bad value to take the 3rd best player at a given position when you can pick the #1 player at another position that grades out higher.
Last year Joe wanted no part of Quenton Nelson, a freak of a prospect, where the Bucs were picking because he was a lowly guard, Nelson went on to be an All-Pro. This year Joe wants no part of Devin White, a freak of a prospect, because of where the Bucs are picking because he’s a lowly LB.
If they grade White as comparable to Luke Kuechly or Patrick Willis then what?
April 6th, 2019 at 1:28 pm
Gotbucs
Nailed it !
April 6th, 2019 at 1:31 pm
Plus I dont think the joes should be giving any advice on drafting this player or that player . I would actually go with the other guy instead the guy they like.
I give you Johnny Manziel
The joes still think he is amazing. Wanted him to back up Jameis. 😂
The dude is literally a white dog turd that changed that color cause it has been drying out in your yard for an entire week.
April 6th, 2019 at 1:51 pm
What positions draw the biggest FA contracts / Franchise Tag #’s??? QB / DE-Edge / WR / CB / LB / DT / OL / RB / S / TE…In that order.
Do you draft “Best Available” or to “Need” ????
I’m of the mindset that you draft Premium Talent @ Premium Positions… Primarily focusing on QB / Edge / CB in Rd1…Unless there is a clear Game Changer at a lesser paid position…But in the Top 5…That guy better be special & a day 1 starter!
If the Bucs keep the #5…It has to be QB / Edge. (I do not see a top 5 CB…Maybe 1 Top10-15 in this draft.)
This draft class has 3 STUD Edge fits, worthy of top5 consideration….But, I’m not betting the farm on a couple of those guys being there…& I’m not sold on JW3 being the long-term guy, just yet.
Both sides maybe saying the right things in public & BA/JW3 may be in the honeymoon phase…But what happens when the schit gets real??? No one really knows if he’ll turn the corner & fulfill the promise he’s flashed…Or if what looks like a path forward is really just a dead-end street.
If the FO/Staff isn’t sold on who’s left @ Edge.. & can’t find the right trade back partner…I’m of the mindset you seriously consider Haskins there.
If you want to keep JW3 & have a real back-up plan…He’s your guy! He’s not a Day1 starter…But has all the tools to be a franchises face. Similar in size/style/potential to JW3…Just missing the starts in college
(No 1st Rd pick is a sure thing…But QB’s are good investments. Plus, the Bucs need cheap/motivating option for the next 1-5yrs, even if they get JW3 signed to a new deal.)
April 6th, 2019 at 1:53 pm
@Pigskin
Joe saying having a pass rusher for a generation seems to be a different take then saying he is a generational pass rusher.
Just like you saying that Devin White is a great talent seems more fair then the earlier comparison of Devin White to Ray Lewis.
If you are right that there are three good ones and they are all gone and the 4th best is Devin White then I have no problem with the Bucs taking him. I do like your thought of trading down also.
My past guesses of players I loved:
Luke Kuechly – correct
RGIII – incorrect – drafted before the bucs pick
Aaron Donald – correct
John Manziel – ridiculously incorrect
Jameis Winston – jury still out
It was before the Combine, but I liked Montez Sweat more than Clelin Ferrell -who back 2 months ago was one of the guys being talked about at number 5 for the bucs – more than Devin White. Amazing how view points change.
I am on record as being a Montez Sweat fan. I know Kobe Faker says he will be the biggest bust. Let’s see. My future of meaningful blog posts will be challenged based upon Montez Sweat’s career!
Go this version of the Buc’s so all the naysayers can go home!
April 6th, 2019 at 1:59 pm
Bucs brass won’t pass on trading down. The temptation will be too great and somebody is going to leapfrog the Giants. I’m not buying the crap coming out of NY. Giants need a QB bad. Hopefully Rosen goes to the Pats which will keep the market strong for trading down.
April 6th, 2019 at 1:59 pm
We won a superbowl with a great Defense and an average Offense. Ok..just a tad above average offense. Ever since then, we have been trying to create a super offense while neglecting what got us our Superbowl. And every season we shutter
when offenses just waltz thru our Defense like butter. When we passed on that beast named Aaron Donald I knew then…..we were destined for mediocrity in some form. Yes, we need a pass rush and we need linebackers who can move quickly in space. We also need help in our secondary. Again..lets see..I won’t..hold my breath. I have become..Comfortably Numb.
April 6th, 2019 at 2:01 pm
Nothing like posters for this debate.
I get your point Joe, IF and it is a BIG IF Allen is truly a Generational Pass Rusher.
I’m not sold!!!!
Bosa yes, Generational!!
Q yes, Generational!!
White yes, Generational!!!
I personally think it would be reaching to take Sweat or Burns or Gary etc.
Best Overall LB is White, no debate warranted.
April 6th, 2019 at 2:08 pm
Oliver
April 6th, 2019 at 3:05 pm
Anonymous,
Thank you for that very accurate and succinct reply.
Joes, where are you on that one?
In retrospect, you guys would really pass on a MLB like Kuechly or Patrick Willis at the top of the draft? That’s poppycock.
April 6th, 2019 at 3:14 pm
The only thing that is “poppycock” is people that don’t want a pass rush on an opposing quarterback.
Three things.
1. The most important position on a defense is an edge rusher. This is not up for debate. Period.
2. Please point out to Joe any linebacker in the draft that is the next Luke Kuechly. Besides, as Joe pointed out, as good as Kuechly was coming out, he wasn’t a top-five pick. There hasn’t been one for 26 years. That should tell people the not-so-importance of an inside linebacker.
3. If mind is still in doubt, please refer to No. 1.
April 6th, 2019 at 3:32 pm
Joe Says:
April 6th, 2019 at 3:14 pm
“1. The most important position on a defense is an edge rusher. This is not up for debate. Period.”
You’re right, it’s not “up for debate” but you’re dead wrong @Joe…
Quinnen Williams, Aaron Donald, Warren Sapp are far closer to the QB and much more disruptive up the middle to any QB, just ask Brady, versus even a Lawrence Taylor type player coming off the edge. The QB can just roll to the other side, or audible out of the defensive alignment, etc, etc.
You’re wrong. Period.
Quinnen Williams. A much more disruptive, effective force than any DE/OLB.
April 6th, 2019 at 3:43 pm
I cant believe so many are clamoring for an ILB and a DT. Mike Smith is gone people. The new crew is up on the times. Speed on the edge is coming. The thing that got Bowles canned in NY was Mac never got him an edge rusher. At one point they had 3 of the best DTs in the game in Richardson, Wilkerson and Leonard Williams. It got them nowhere because they had no edge rush. In Arz they had em. The boys wont let Licht take a DT over an edge rusher. The line backer deal aint happening at 5 either. Sitbacksmitty is gone. No need to think about stopping the run first anymore. Hallelujah!!
April 6th, 2019 at 4:06 pm
I agree whole heartedly.. but if it’s not a 3 4 DE then its BPA no need to try an get cute.
April 6th, 2019 at 4:06 pm
Joe, I get the point about pass rush and I agree. What you neglect to accept is that none of the pass rushers are a sure thing. I like the to 3 guys but it’s a crap shoot after that. I’d even add Oliver as a 4th guy who is more likely than not to succeed but there have been a ton of early 1st round draft picks to fail. I’d also like to point out that you can make the case for your guy without calling others fools. As for going back in time and being able to select Willis or Kuechly, they would go 1 and 2 in the draft. 32 out of 32 GMs would take a sure fire HOFer over an unknown quantity. In retrospect I’d take Roquan Smith over anyone in this draft. He went 8 I believe. He also had 5 sacks 125+ tackles after missing all of training camp. How many edge guys drafted last year had more sacks?
April 6th, 2019 at 4:10 pm
straightcashhomey:
Calm down! Williams hasn’t played a down in the NFL and already you are comparing him to two all-time greats? Slow your roll man. And where did Joe say he’d pick an ILB over a tackle? Joe would pick Williams (though Bama defenders are often underachievers) or Ed Oliver over an ILB, but would *MUCH* prefer an edge rusher.
Sapp is in the Hall of Fame for obvious reasons. You know what made that Bucs defense complete? Signing Simeon Rice, who should have been the MVP of the Super Bowl win.
It’s reckless to say, “Draft Williams because of Aaron Donald.” Donald is a total freak of nature and not even remotely the norm. A guy like that comes around once every 25 years.
April 6th, 2019 at 5:54 pm
Joe is 33.33% correct: An edge rusher is the most important player on defense on 3rd down. Maybe, depending on distance for a first down.
On first and second down, I rate an ILB much more highly than an edge rusher.
And with the continued advancement of the RPO and various sprint-out plays, I would discount an edge rusher even more, because you can shift away from one guy
They are important, no doubt. But for an overall team defense concept, a serious ILB is significant…and has been a severe weakness for this team for years. Kwon Alexander was often a liability.
In my world, QB hurries are more important than sacks. Hurries cause bad decisions and those cause turnovers. Sacks are nice, for sure, and casual fans go “oooh and aaah”, but an incomplete pass on third down is still a turnover as much as a sack is.
April 6th, 2019 at 6:04 pm
Two positions have, by far, the most busts at the top of the draft: QB and edge rushers.
April 6th, 2019 at 6:44 pm
CobraBoy,
Exactly! And the other side is …fewest busts. That would LB.
Joe,
If nothing else, the fact that White is almost universally believed to be a top 5 selection should, Should be something that jars you into rethinking your ” never white in 19″ position.
The mere fact that in a draft class loaded with defensive line talent and edge rushers white is a top 5 selection. Which means. ..He’s not the next kuekly, He’s something better. In his own class.. Will He live up to that expectation, no one knows. What we know is at this point, White is right,
April 6th, 2019 at 6:55 pm
@Cobraboy. I was not sure if you were correct in your assumptions. I found an old article from 2012 so it is obviously dated but some info from then:
Here is a position-by-position look at the number of Pro Bowl players from the first round of the last 10 drafts.
Quarterbacks: 9 of 30 = 30.0 percent
Running Backs: 8 of 27 = 29.6 percent
Wide Receivers: 10 of 37 = 27.0 percent
Tight Ends: 7 of 13 = 53.8 percent
Offensive Tackles: 8 of 37 = 21.6 percent
Centers: 3 of 7 = 42.8 percent
Guards: 3 of 7 = 42.8 percent
Defensive Ends: 7 of 41 = 17.0 percent
Defensive Tackles: 8 of 33 = 24.2 percent
Linebackers: 13 of 32 = 40.6 percent
Cornerbacks: 13 of 39 = 33.3 percent
Safeties: 9 of 16 = 56.2 percent
Here are first-round picks from the last 10 years who made more than one Pro Bowl appearance:
Quarterbacks: 6 of 30 = 20 percent
Running Backs: 4 of 27 = 14.8 percent
Wide Receivers: 4 of 37 = 10.8 percent
Tight Ends: 1 of 13 = 7.6 percent
Offensive Tackles: 5 of 37 = 13.5 percent
Centers: 2 of 7 = 28.5 percent
Guards: 3 of 7 = 42.8 percent
Defensive Ends: 4 of 41 = 9.7 percent
Defensive Tackles: 6 of 33 = 18.1 percent
Linebackers: 8 of 32 = 25.0 percent
Cornerbacks: 6 of 39 = 15.3 percent
Safeties: 6 of 16 = 37.5 percent
Again that article was from 2012 not 2018 or 2019. So it may actually suggest linebacker is one of the stronger choices for getting a top player.
April 6th, 2019 at 6:58 pm
Rather, the fact that an inside linebacker hasn’t been picked in the top five in 26 years should open up the closed minds of the knuckledraggers.
April 6th, 2019 at 8:56 pm
Well I am with joe. Everyone was mad that we let Kwon go. He is the second highest paid inside linebacker in the league. And where was he drafted round four. Beckwith was a really good linebacker with pro bowl potential before his car wreck and where was he drafted. We have to get a defensive end of Allen or Bosa or sweat are there. But I would still take Oliver over all of them. I was dreaming last year of us getting him. But thought no way would we have the number one overall pick. He was the lock the last two years to be the first overall. And now we will have a great opportunity to get him with the 5th overall pick. He is a Aaron Donald clone. He could break all sapps numbers. He is a generational talent. He will make the qb have to move out of the pocket. Getting more sacks for Nassib and jpp. He is a game wrecker. Who has to be accounted for on every play. And with vea beside him who are you going to double team. That is a matchup nightmare. But it is so easy to see that we will draft greedy 5th overall and convert him to safety next year before trading him for a 5th round pick the next year. Or in year 4 be saying is this the year greedy gets it and lives up to his draft status. I am sick of every year having false hope that this is the year or previous picks finally pay off. Go get a guy who has dominated against everyone he has played. And all experts agree he wasn’t even being used properly. Oliver could get 10 sacks his rookie year from the defensive tackle position. We should draft him and then in the 2nd and 3rd draft defensive ends. We can’t continue to let qbs just sit back there and pat the ball in a clean pocket to the tune of a 110 qb rating. And we will never be able to get a good end in free agency. The good ones like Lawrence are getting locked up to huge contracts. The giants were stupid for trading jpp for a 3rd round pick. Something like that will never happen again.
April 6th, 2019 at 9:42 pm
If a ILB has not been taken in the top 5 in the last 20 years, some teams missed out on some good ones, The last six teams to play in the SB – Pats, Panthers, Broncos, Seahawks, Eagles and Falcons -where and who was the dominant pass rusher, I will give you one team (Broncos with Ware and Miller)
April 6th, 2019 at 10:43 pm
Joe,
So your mind is finally open……..your welcome!
Wash the blood off those knuckles and put some tape on it………
April 6th, 2019 at 10:51 pm
Joe,
I thought Davenport was a smart pick Last year because I agree with you on the importance of selecting an edge rusher. I would prefer the team trade whatever it takes to get another first round selection and use it to select an edge rusher.
April 7th, 2019 at 6:46 am
What I “”just… do… not… get” is the way whichever Joe you are whose so against taking D. White at 5 (or in a trade back a few spots). I’ll be LMAO if we draft him and he turns into a ROTY candidate.
You act like he cant pass rush….dude has 4.42 speed at 240lbs.
You act like that wont be utilized in a 3-4.
You act like we have NOBODY at DE when we do have JPP and Nassib for at least a few more years.
You act like theres NO glaring need at LB when all we really have is LD54.
But go ahead, keep up the act….i just laugh. Youre probably the same one who was lobbying for us to extend freefree when he was clearly losing it, and probably the same one who was lobbying for us to draft ole johnny boy manziel.
Look, Im also in the Q and Allen camp. If one of them is there, you pull the trigger (they wont be)….if not, easy, you draft D. White! Need, Talent, and BPA meet for us at pick 5-8, which for us would be Mr. White.
April 7th, 2019 at 7:10 am
Alright NOSBOS, keep preaching! I couldnt read through all the comments but saw yours, and you’re right, especially on Oliver. He’s a 10-15 range IMO.
Now if White, Q, Allen are gone by 5, i say we keep trading back and grab Sweat around 20, im good with that. think of how many extra picks we could have, especially 2nd’s….could move back into the bottom of the first for Bradbury!
April 7th, 2019 at 7:18 am
Lindstrom, Mullen, and Winovich….in that order in the 2nd’s if we somehow trade down for more picks. OL, CB, Edge after using our first for Sweat or Oliver (in a trade down)
April 7th, 2019 at 1:03 pm
Hey Joe, maybe Bill Belichick knows more about football than you (or Jerry Jones)? And the Ravens did ok with Devin White 1.0, right? 😉
No, but Bill Belichick always keeps around Tedy Bruschi, Jerod Mayo, and Dont’a Hightower. He let’s go of Chandler Jones, Richard Seymour, Trey Flowers. Football IQ states that Devin White in Bowles’ system is not simply a run stuffer. Bowles run a similar hybrid style as Belichick where you never know where the pressure is coming. If you draft some typical outside pass rusher, we all know where that pass rush will be. You’re kinda screaming your football ignorance to the heavens at this point with your insistence on a 4-3 RE.
Maybe stop with the childish “Belicheat” stuff and study his football acumen? But the current Bucs FO is.