Cornerbacks And Safeties
April 29th, 2019
Doomed?
It seems the Bucs have a fetish for trying to turn cornerbacks into safeties.
First it was Ryan Smith. Now it’s M.J. Stewart. The fact the Bucs drafted another safety in Mike Edwards in the third round over the weekend may tip you off to how confident the Bucs are with Stewart as a safety. This, of course, after drafting a safety in each of the last two drafts.
One former NFL suit took to Twitter this weekend to explain (not related to the Bucs) that flipping a corner to a safety is far more difficult than changing his position on the roster.
Former Bears scouting director cranky Greg Gabriel detailed on Twitter the steep curve the transition is.
Easier said than done. To play safety requires an entirely different skill set. They have to play the whole field not 1/4 of it. Top instincts are imperative. It’s a difficult transition. Many have tried, few succeed https://t.co/D1fVSTKH5L
— Greg Gabriel (@greggabe) April 28, 2019
Joe hopes in the future, the Bucs quit monkeying with young defensive backs. If a guy plays Position-A, let him play that position. If he can’t hack it, he can’t hack it and move on.
Joe suspects that is what torpedoed Caleb Benenoch and stunted the growth of Ali Marpet. The two were a tackle and guard, respectively, and the team tried to get cute and move them to a new position.
April 29th, 2019 at 10:02 am
booty
just plain booty…..
What?
We gonna keep on drafting DBs every year????
We’re Cleveland south right now
April 29th, 2019 at 10:14 am
I was berated severely when I criticized Licht for drafting MJ Stewart and was very puzzled why he drafted Stewart before Carlton Davis.
Rarely am I critical until there is an opportunity to evaluate the pick with a good sample of plays…..
I am still skeptical on MJ Stewart……he will have a year to fish or cut bait.
April 29th, 2019 at 10:17 am
Not sure I agree. Many times players play one position in college then get drafted to play another position. I think MJ Stewart was looked at as Nickel and/or potential Safety from the get go, and the need was more at nickel with all the injuries but his skillset is more suited for playing Safety, so I have no problem with them moving him to Safety.
April 29th, 2019 at 10:22 am
It would be my worse nightmare come true to see MJ Stewart as the last line of defense sort of like the feeling he would get seeing Julio Jones run right by him even he’s running full speed
April 29th, 2019 at 10:30 am
Assuming that coaching is adequate, the players have to be employed according to skill, primarily, and experience in their positions. Round that up with players believing in the system, as Coach Dungy used to say, and then you have a reasonable chance of being successful.
From what I’ve been reading, both O and D will be coached to that end and will profit from that mentality.
Injuries aside, the first four games should show where the Bucs stand. Glass seems half full. Let’s hope it’s not upside down.
April 29th, 2019 at 10:31 am
We don’t discuss this often, but does anyone know if we changed out our scouts from last year with the new coaches?…..
April 29th, 2019 at 10:33 am
Mj needs off this team asap
April 29th, 2019 at 10:35 am
If we’re going to be in a Dime Defense at least 50% of the time.
We’re going to need as many able bodies as possible. Plus, I’m sure Bowles can use him in a few different cloud/sky coverages with him blitzing off the weak side.
April 29th, 2019 at 10:41 am
And licht has an obsession with players who have devastating knee injuries, why not go get the healthy player instead
April 29th, 2019 at 10:47 am
if you want to improve the secondary, improve the dline and pass rush….
GO BUCS!!!!
April 29th, 2019 at 10:48 am
Tampa bay bucsfan I doubt you were berated heavily in your criticism of drafting MJ Stewart. I think every bucs fan and draft expert were dumbfounded with that pick. Everyone was in agreeance that was a big reach for a slow guy
April 29th, 2019 at 11:01 am
813bucboi Says:
April 29th, 2019 at 10:47 am
if you want to improve the secondary, improve the dline and pass rush….
GO BUCS!!!!
__________
Yep
813buboi and I have been saying the same thing. Obviously, the Bucs do not agree with the philosophy that strong deep offense and defensive lines are way more valuable than the players on the back end.
Even Deion Sanders could not cover someone for 10 seconds.
April 29th, 2019 at 11:01 am
Tanard Jackson was a cb we changed him
To safety he was a beast
April 29th, 2019 at 11:02 am
This will be the draft that sinks or floats Licht. Drafting DBs well down the list of DB’s, passing on an Edge stud, letting Kwon walk and spending a #1 to replace him will be the calls that decide his fate. Considering his track record, I’m not optimistic.
April 29th, 2019 at 11:04 am
Expect The Following Looks:
• 4-2-5 Nickel
• 3-2-6 Dime
• 2-3-5 Dime
That’s the ONLY way any of this makes any sense. It’s a huge gamble because we don’t have enough veteran leadership in the backfield. But if they can get the basic concepts down. They should be able to pull it off.
April 29th, 2019 at 11:05 am
That 1/4 is only true when talking about outside corners. That is not true of nickel corners. Mike Edwards is closer to the T. Matthieu type (which is becoming more common in today’s NFL). Teams love the guy that can roam the backend, play in the box and slide in at Nickel given the down, distance and situation.
Gabriel’s comment is only true when applied to outside corners and not in today’s NFL.
April 29th, 2019 at 11:06 am
2-3-6 Dime
April 29th, 2019 at 11:07 am
TBBF, pretty sure the scout team is the same. Its Jasons Staff.
April 29th, 2019 at 11:10 am
From an athletic/measurable standpoint, Mike Edwards & Mj Stewart are about the same.
April 29th, 2019 at 11:10 am
Man I just hope the defense is solid this year. That will quiet all criticisms of draft philosophy.
We kind of ignored a lot of BA quotes that kind of make it more obvious they weren’t happy with the secondary. He quite literally said something along those lines multiple times “I think our front is OK but I worry about the back end”
We also know Bowles D emphasizes coverage to compliment blitzing.
I’m not happy with the draft from a team building standpoint because we are too old on our DL and need upgrades on OL and that’s where most games are won, but if we have to be honest about the weakest position group of the team it has been secondary not DL or OL.
However many of us blamed that on coaching/scheme, when maybe we’re wrong. But if we’re wrong that’s on Licht still.
H3ll Licht seems to have been a lap dog GM for every coach. At this point it’s not even him but our organization that is to blame. It’s our ownership for creating a stupid structure of a lap dog GM to their desperate coaching hires.
Lord Corn would have drafted
R1-Josh Allen OLB/DE
R2-take the trade back offered (likely Broncos) – Elgton Jenkins OG/C
R3-stay put this time – DreMont Jones DT / 3 tech
R3(from trade back should have taken) – ok now take Jamel Dean CB if you want
R4-Anthony Nelson DE (i like this pick a lot after research so I’m good here)
However – this draft can still be a success if the players pan out. That’s basically every draft.
I.e. Devin White ILB All Pro
Sean Bunting CB pro bowler
Anthony Nelson DE/DT solid rotational starter and Adams/Dean = quality depth and potential starters
That = a home run type draft addressing every level of the D that likely flips the fortune of our defense for 2019.
April 29th, 2019 at 11:18 am
Mike Edwards (Pro Day)
• Height: 5′ 10″
• Weight: 205 lbs
• Arms: 30 7/8”
• Hands: 9 3/8
• 40 Yard Dash: 4.5
• Vertical Jump: 37
M.J. Stewart (Combine)
• Height: 5′ 11″
• Weight: 200 lbs
• Arms: 31 1/4”
• Hands: 9 ¼
• 40 Yard Dash: 4.54
• Vertical Jump: 35.0
April 29th, 2019 at 11:21 am
@LUV
I am with you on hoping that is the reasoning for this madness. It actually does make sense.
ESPN had some stat that I can’t find now; but i could have swore that it showed a huge increase in Dime packages in the NFL in 2019. From like 10-11% to 20-30% or something.
NFL lately has trended towards quick passing to negate pass rush, and using athletic RBs/TEs that can get in space and out maneuver average LBs / coverage players, along with athletic QBs and read-option motions.
The Pats in the SB used a lot of dime (probably 25-33% of their defensive snaps / looks)
April 29th, 2019 at 11:25 am
“Kobe Faker is going to drop some knowledge to you sheep because of pity
Gump’s drafting of 3-4 secondary players the last 2 years is equivalent to drafting a
KICKER IN THE 2ND ROUND
why because Math/ Stats/ odds and percentages
read below to learn”
Kobe Faker
April 29th, 2019 at 11:36 am
“Why doesnt other teams draft 4 players in the same position in 1 draft?
in a heavy position rich year, there might be alot of teams draft 1 player that plays the same position…but a team draft 3 or 4 in the same position in the same year ?
Why? and Why does that not happen?
because every year there is only certain amount of NFL worthy talent in each position
for example. in the sec each year. can there be 10 nfl level worthy qbs? hell no cant be. only 2 or 3. and next year 2 or 3
What Gump is doing the last 2 years is mathmatically and statically stupid
it is made to FAIL
1 team CAN NOT possibly have 3-4 players in the same draft be NFL level quality
you just cant
each year there only so much NFL defensive backs that have NFL capability
approx 5-6 and then next year will only be 5-6
what Gump is doing is built to fail because of MATH!
from the 4 secondary players last year we might have 1 good player, and this year is the same
what gump is doing with drafting all these backup special team players is flawed and mathematically equivalent to
DRAFTING A KICKER IN THE 2ND ROUND”
Kobe Faker
April 29th, 2019 at 11:50 am
General Patton said don’t pay for the same ground twice.
Looks like our whole draft was just that.
That being said lets hope this time they know what they are doing. I’m praying that Barrber stays heslthy. Othereise we will be trying to pluck a rib off s practice squad.
Go bucs.
April 29th, 2019 at 11:56 am
@Eric
So, in using your saying from Patton to make a comparison to drafting players…
What if it’s TWO seperate pieces of land (players) right next to each other? Making your plot of land bigger and expanding your territory….
April 29th, 2019 at 12:01 pm
I see your point.
I guess it doesn’t matter what happened in the past. If you suck beyond belief in the secondary I guess it has to be addressed.
April 29th, 2019 at 12:08 pm
Eric,
Exactly!
p.s. I like your ability to be receptive and open-minded. It’s commendable and rare these days. Especially via the internet. Kudos.
April 29th, 2019 at 12:09 pm
@Kobe
The numbers argument doesn’t really work there.
You’re suggesting that positional talent is dropping off in certain rounds where you would move on to another position due to drop off…
I.e. in R3 all the top 5-6 corners are gone so time to get one of the top 5-6 other position
Except by that same point all the top players at all positions have dropped off significantly..
Your argument only makes sense if you are saying there were only 5-6 corners worth drafting but 30-40 lineman or edge rushers worth drafting. If that’s your point then you have a mathematical point, but going by draft rankings most wouldn’t agree.
The only #’s I know are
1st round – about 50%, top 5 though is like 70-80% success
2nd round – about 40% chance
3rd – about 33% chance
4th and beyond – 25% or worse
Regardless of position. And per every draft site I’ve read – no player we drafted was a huge reach. If your argument were true that would be the case (i.e. they are drafting a 4th round CB in the 2nd round when there is a 2nd round worthy DE). But Bunting was a R2 player to a lot of analysts and supposedly the Raiders were going to take him if we didn’t.
And we’ve seen decent teams load up on one position group before. The Panthers did it after gutting their secondary and toook 2-3 CBs in rounds 2-3.
Last year the Packers took a CB in R1 , a CB in R2, and then a LB in R3 which is basically the reverse of what we just did.
April 29th, 2019 at 12:11 pm
For some hope – in the 2018 draft there were only 3 defensive pro bowlers – 2 in the secondary and a LB .
That said we all agree you don’t build teams from the outside in. That is the problem/madness of all of this. The only cure is winning and proving these picks are better than other available players we could have taken.
April 29th, 2019 at 12:16 pm
By Bruce Arians thinking if you have 2 quarterbacks you have no quarterbacks, so if we apply the same mathematics we drafted 6 secondary players in the last two years we have drafted none. That actually seems about accurate. Good thing the pass rush is so good they don’t have to cover very long. Wait what?
April 29th, 2019 at 12:21 pm
“Yes
my point pertains to nfl quality in each position that is needed to build a quality roster
yesterday gump apoligists were agreeing talking about “flooding the position”
the term drafting for BPA vs need is because there is so much quality of talent in each position
you cant force and draft a position because the quality is gone because each year there is so much nfl quality in that position…you have to wait next year or FA
i understand your point about the the higher the rounds that every position loses quality and potential to be NFL level
concerning your pts with rankings I guess your right too”
Kobe Faker
April 29th, 2019 at 12:23 pm
LUV those sets you posted are exactly why Belichess win’s the Super Bowl every year. Not concerned wit sacks,pressures or even turnovers for that matter. Just forcing you to punt placing the ball back in TB12 hands.
April 29th, 2019 at 12:24 pm
I’ve lost all faith in anything the Bucs say or do.
April 29th, 2019 at 12:26 pm
Watch a YouTube vid of the pats/dolphins last season. The commentator said numerous times “the pats have 6 in coverage/the pats have 7 in coverage “. What a novel idea in a pass happy @$$ league. Screw pressure and sacks,routinely drop 6 or 7.
April 29th, 2019 at 12:30 pm
@Kobe
I work in Finance / do a lot of #’s work so that’s the only reason I had to comment lol.
On a side point I don’t even know what Licht really does anymore though other than defend sh1t at pressers.
My biggest frustration in general is with our organizational structure.. We are flying by the seat of our pants based on each new coaching staff, vs having an actual GM with a plan or actual president of operations with a plan that is a long-term.
Lovie Smith ran personnel it seems, and Koetter/Smitty, and now BA/Bowels.
It has never been Licht over them IMO, and that’s a problem. You have to empower your GM more than that if you want to actually build something.
Or Licht really is just a freaking moron with no consistent understanding of how he wanted to build a team which is also possible.
April 29th, 2019 at 12:33 pm
NOSBOS Says:
April 29th, 2019 at 12:26 pm
Watch a YouTube vid of the pats/dolphins last season. The commentator said numerous times “the pats have 6 in coverage/the pats have 7 in coverage “. What a novel idea in a pass happy @$$ league. Screw pressure and sacks,routinely drop 6 or 7.
.
.
the Bucs will be playing a
3-2-7 when they can get way with it
April 29th, 2019 at 12:45 pm
I will reserve judgement until this coaching staff and draft class have played a few games. I respect the judgement of this coaching staff to evaluate our needs.
April 29th, 2019 at 12:53 pm
To the point that Tanard Jackson was converted to safety and immediately started as a rookie, Ronde Barber/Charles Woodson also spent their last few seasons at Safety and had success.
It should be noted that the greatest safety of all-time Ronnie Lott was a CB to start his career before converting in his 5th season in the league. All of that said, MJ Stewart is none of those players and no guarantee to start anywhere let alone at safety.
One can only assume Licht was enamored with Stewart’s Senior Bowl practices covering WR’s where he was noted to do well. Like Noah Spence’s success at SB practices Stewart’s selection in round 2 has clearly paid off in a backup that will barely see the field if he’s even on the roster next year.
April 29th, 2019 at 12:53 pm
Nope Spytek is still our scouting director. He was a small scout for the broncos before they win a super bowl and got a huge job promotion
April 29th, 2019 at 12:56 pm
LUV
i agree…
thats the only way this makes sense…..
GO BUCS!!!!
April 29th, 2019 at 1:04 pm
LUVMYBUCS … Great comparison of Stewart & Edwards. Almost look like Bobbsie Twins for all practical purposes. Of course, measurables only tell part of the story. Lots of other ‘intangibles’ that are REALLY hard to measure as we both know.
Kobe … I still say this WASN’T Gump’s draft. He’s admittedly not my favorite GM by any means, BUT … this draft has Todd Bowles fingerprints all over it. I admittedly have no intel backing that up, but the picks scream ‘This is what I need to make my defense work’. BA’s in charge in my estimation, and this draft was the cost of getting Bowles to sign on. And without him, I doubt that in the final analysis BA would’ve taken the job. He knows full well that with a bottom-feeder defense, he’s not winning diddly.
April 29th, 2019 at 1:04 pm
Our secondary was horrid last year, we draft players to improve it and fans get their panties in a bunch. What am I missing? What difference does it make what we drafted last year, you draft players who will be here long term and help us turn things around.
April 29th, 2019 at 1:20 pm
Sure wasn’t a problem for Tanard Jackson; Not a problem with doing that scout or team just have to be right about the player.
April 29th, 2019 at 1:37 pm
AlterEgo I hope so bro. That method was working just fine for Atlanta in that Super Bowl vs the pats and with only 3 rushers they were still applying pressure and making contact with Brady in that first half. Grady Jarret was reeking havoc. What happened at half time I don’t know.
April 29th, 2019 at 1:38 pm
“Our secondary was horrid last year, we draft players to improve it and fans get their panties in a bunch”
Yeah the reaction is a bit crazy but it’s because we’ve all been banging the tables for drafting trench talent / edge talent and basically ignored it till R4.
We’ve all been hoping coaching = the reason for the bad secondary/defense in general.
If Devin White is an immediate all pro and we go from worst secondary in history to a solid secondary because of this draft to where we are set with both starters/depth in our CB/S group for the next 4 years, and we win games, fans will get over it all pretty immediately.
And we at least did take one DL / edge guy who seems to have high enough pedigree to likely start. I just wish we took 2 + OL as well lol
Also looking at a 2020 mock draft there is a ton of edge players mocked R1- I think more than what even went in 2019. Also more QBs & WRs will go that draft & CB – and likely falling edge/OL of extreme value.
ALways find a way to be a homer lol!
Dream scenario at this point:
-Devin White = immediate all pro and catalyst for culture change
-at least one of our secondary draft picks is a full time starter / immediate huge upgrade and another shows up big as a rotational player
-VHIII/Davis/Justin Evans all play up to potential
-the DE in R4 provides great depth/value as a rotational piece
-our aging DL stays mostly healthy and Noah Spence is useful again like his rookie year
-The offense is much more efficient / matches points to yardage for once vs Koetter’s offenses
-Ronald Jones pans out as at least a use-able weapon and complimentary back
-Peyton Barber gives steady & solid production
-Jameis Winston ascends as an elite QB
-Alex Cappa excels as a RG and we don’t even have a need there
Then we’re good to go win some super bowls lol. 2020 = DL / OL first 4 picks with RG/RT and DT/Edge in BPA order
April 29th, 2019 at 1:40 pm
Anyone who thinks you can’t pressure with 3 re-watch the first half of that Super Bowl. Those sets make immobile QBs hold the football a second or two longer. Even the Edlemen miracle catch was completed with two defenders all over him.
April 29th, 2019 at 1:41 pm
After the pass had been tipped by a defender.
April 29th, 2019 at 1:43 pm
I’ll drop 6 or 7 on your mean pass rush and kill you every time. Because I know philosophically all you wanna do is throw passes and not run the football.
April 29th, 2019 at 1:47 pm
Still trying to figure out what all the b*tching is about regarding this draft. Joe says he wants pass rushers. Well, we have $15M invested in JPP and he had 12.5 sacks last year. We drafted a DL trench player #1 last year in Vea rather than a all world Safety in Derwin James. We have another $13 M invested in McCoy and roughly $8M in Gholston and Allen. We just drafted two additional DLineman. All these are, by definition, pass rushers.
We then drafted what many consider the best defensive player in this draft in Devin White to anchor the middle of this defense hopefully for years to come. And then followed that by drafting 2 tall fast corners and a very good Safety to help fix a horrid secondary. We can all bitch and moan about using two high picks last year but the fact is the job was not done. Grimes left (thank god) and the jury is out on Stewart. If we end of up with 5 good solid CB’s and at least 3 solid Safety’s then we should be in good shape for years to come.
The only thing I would complain about is the lack of OL picks but you only had 8 picks. As Jason has said, we don’t lineup tomorrow so there is still time to grab Guards and Tackles if need be.
End of the day, I’ve been impressed with the direction thus far and let’s not kid ourselves, this season depends on JW.
April 29th, 2019 at 1:48 pm
Lord Cornelius Says:
I hope everyone reads this post because LC nailed.
Seems the same people who mocked “this isn’t the NFL from 1970, so a MLB is not important” begin to understand this isn’t the NFL of 10-15 years ago when QB’s dropped back in the pocket and DE’s hunted them down from the edge.
The RPO was CREATED to slow down and negate DL and LB penetration by keeping them at home to give QB’s more time for eyes downfield. Even in Tampa Bay some of the best “splash plays” come from sprint-outs or QB’s out of the pocket.
In an unheard of trend from even a couple of years ago, now DE’s are becoming “contain” guys, not just 3rd down pass rushers.
That’s Old School, and not today’s NFL.
The future of football will be fast DB’s and LB’s in coverage with QB’s prevented from getting out of the “pocket”, so slower developing pass patterns can get open. It was not that long ago when across-the-field drag patterns were unheard of. Now they are a staple of a good offense with TWO WR’s, or a TE/WR combo, dragging across the field with almost illegal picks.
I expect a ton more DB’s and fast LB’s to go higher in drafts in future years.
April 29th, 2019 at 1:56 pm
For once I would like to see a game plan to take away our opponents strengths and make them beat us with their weakness. This takes creativity and an exotic defensive game plan that is adjusted week to week. It also takes horses to do so.
Teams have won with a strong front 7 and weaker secondary but teams have also won with the reverse. i think bowels is capable of figuring this out so I remain optimistic. It’s unfortunate we didn’t upgrade d line and rb but the secondary guys we got seem promising(esp dean if his knee injuries aren’t an issue..knock on wood)
Not upgrading o line is not ideal but out of any position i feel like you can find an undrafted/roster cut guy to actually make a difference at those spots. Same can be said for rb.
April 29th, 2019 at 2:07 pm
NOSBOS … You just hit on the biggest concern I have about only rushing 2-3 and dropping the rest into coverage … THE RUN. Bucs were bad against the run last year rushing 4.
Patriots seem to be the poster child for rushing only 2-3 & dropping many into coverage. They were #11 in the NFL in terms of rushing yardage allowed (not bad) but they allowed 4.9 YPC (#29 in the league), probably because if you rush only 2-3 DLinemen someone ends up covering multiple gaps? (Not sure).
In their 5 losses, the Pats allowed 152 YPG average rushing yardage, MUCH more than they allowed in their 11 wins (an average of 95 YPG rushing in their wins). Their 5 losses were to the Jaguars, Lions, Titans, Dolphins & Steelers … most of them pretty good running teams last year.
April 29th, 2019 at 2:56 pm
Defense the counter to that method is running the football. Belichess gets away with because he knows these coaches are rigid and won’t conform. falcons and eagles had success because they chose to run the football on him. Willie McGinest said “if the rams had ran the football they would have beaten us. We only gameplanned for the pass that week”.
April 29th, 2019 at 3:04 pm
Cobra
All this sh!t cyclical man.
We were teaching/defending RPO’s concepts in Southern California in the Mid-To Late 80’s. Ain’t none of this sh!t new.
It’s the same Ol’ wash, rinse, and repeat. Only wrapped in a different ribbon.
April 29th, 2019 at 3:07 pm
@LUVMYBUCS: We ran a semi-wishbone in college in the 70’s. But the NFL never adopted it.
It’s just now becoming a thang in the NFL, an official offense. Seems it began cranking with RGIII, and now many teams use the RPO.
April 29th, 2019 at 3:27 pm
It’s going to be interesting to see how long this trend continues. These RPO QB’s take some shots and that’s a lot of money invested in these guys.
April 29th, 2019 at 3:36 pm
I here you.
But guys have been using RPO’s in the league way before RGIII. Hell Brett Favre was definitely using RPO’s in the late ’90s. Ask Steve Young, and he’ll probably tell you they invented RPO’s at BYU in the early ’80s. Seriously there were so many offensive geniuses on the West Coast from the late 60’s – on; it was crazy.
You had HS coaches with access to information, literally in their own backyard. So guys were testing/tinkering new versions/concepts all the time.
From
• Sid Gillman
• Don Coryell
• Joe Gibbs
• Dick Vermeil
• Bill Walsh
• Mike Holmgren
• Dennis Green
• Andy Reid
• Ernie Zampese
• Jon Gruden
• Sean Payton
………..And On ..And On (the List is mile long)
And guys worked them – and learned to properly defend their attacks
• Chuck Noll
• Bum Phillips
• George Seifert
• Tony Dungy
• John Fox
April 29th, 2019 at 3:38 pm
**And guys worked for them – and learned to properly defend their attacks
April 29th, 2019 at 3:48 pm
Cobra what you stated can easily be proven when we reexamine last season’s playoffs. No one touch Brady until the Super Bowl.
April 29th, 2019 at 3:53 pm
@LUVMYBUC: RPO is very different from a “west coast” offense.
West coast offenses use the short pass for runs; the were no options for a run, except if the QB just took off like Steve Young did. There was no RB run option.
An RPO is like belly plays, what we ran in college-stick the ball in the RB belly along the LoS, and then read what the DE or OLB did. The difference is in a college type triple option, there weren’t any planned passes.
In the RPO run in the NFL, there are at least two throwing options if the ball is pulled from the RB belly.
Farve never ran an RPO. He would just pull the ball down and go. Same for most “running” QB’s in the NFL. Mike Vick ran an occasional “modified” RPO, but really he just took off when he saw open space and used his athletic ability to exploit it. The Bucs were somewhat successful against Vick because they used Brooks as a spy, knowing Vick was not much of a passer. Thing is, some of the current RPO-type QB’s may not run as well as Vick, but they can pass much better, and run belly plays well.
I saw RGIII and Cam Newton run actual RPO, and other teams are now going to it. What do you think they will run in AZ with Kyler Murray? Wentz, Mahomes and Aaron Rodgers all run a lot of RPO’s.
So let’s not confuse a west-coast offence vs. an RPO vs. a QB that pulls down the ball and runs.
The NFL is a copy cat league, so more teams in the future will run versions of the RPO. I think it is wise for a team D to begin planning for it.
April 29th, 2019 at 4:22 pm
Cobraboy
Lol, no ones’ confusing RPO’s and the West Coast Offense buddy.
But before we break that down in detail.
Please Review: https://twitter.com/AaronNagler/status/1005927382358913025/video/1
April 29th, 2019 at 5:06 pm
Licht and Arians screwed up on 2 picks..Dean out of Auburn has had Multiple knee issues. They will follow him at this level with the bump up in physicality. And Why a Kicker? Could have got him in the 7th rd. These 2 are wasted picks. I give us a solid C..for this years draft.
April 29th, 2019 at 5:57 pm
The hole in this theory is that several players have switched positions at the NFL level (Sweezy was a DT in college), especially Cornerbacks to Safeties. We’ll see about MJ Stewart, I know some Bucs fans will be rooting for him to fail because they love misery. I’m hoping for the best.
April 29th, 2019 at 7:17 pm
@LUVMYBUCS: you totally miss the point. Your example of Farve showed it was NOT part of the GB offense. He played around with it. GB never ran the RPO as a standard part of their offense, certainly not how it is being run in the NFL today under Rogers and a few others.
But, whatever…
April 29th, 2019 at 7:57 pm
If you look at MJ Stewart’s draft profile at https://www.nfl.com/prospects/m.j.-stewart?id=32462018-0002-5599-97fe-36371601b10f they had already projected him to be a safety.
April 29th, 2019 at 8:41 pm
CobraBoy
C’mon bruh get out of your feelings for a minute.
I displayed several individuals that had a hand in making the…
-Air Raid Offense
-Air Coryell Offense
-Read Option/Spread Option Offense
-West Coast Offense
And the only thing you wanted to marginalize was the WEST COAST offense. Ok
Favre & Gruden just spelled it out plain as day. But, whatever…
If you can’t understand that – then I don’t know what to tell you.
Run-Pass Options are simplistic, there’s nothing new or fancy about this sh!t.
Hell, where do think Doug Peterson (Ferndale, Wa), Brett Favre’s ex-teammate got the concepts from?
Again these concepts have been around for a long time. Now everyone and their grandpa’ is coming out the woodworks saying they had a hand in creating them or used them back in the day.
Jim McMahon is saying they did some RPO’s with the Bears.
Randall Cunningham
Boomer Esiason
Warren Moon
Etc Etc Etc.
April 30th, 2019 at 9:59 am
I’m sorry for the incredibly short memory… but Marpet came to the Bucs as an OT… then was flipped to OG… then C… so the majority of his football experience is at Tackle. So is that where he should play?
April 30th, 2019 at 11:15 am
Our GM needs to realize he has wasted a ton of picks on our secondary now that we have drafted an entire new secondary on top of what he brought in. Cant imagine we couldn’t have gotten a running back with ONE of the wasted pics give me a break!!