Corner > Inside Linebacker
April 16th, 2019
No. 1 corner?
Joe has made clear what he thinks of this nonsense about drafting an inside linebacker over someone who can get to the quarterback. The British have a word for it: rubbish!
(“Rubbish,” in the vernacular used by the British, is the same word us colonists would use to describe a dense mass found in toilets before flushed.)
It seems Andrew Potter of Football Outsiders, typing for BSPN, is of a similar mind. But he doesn’t believe the Bucs should go after a defensive tackle or an edge rusher. He believes the highest draft priority of the Bucs is a corner.
With the addition of several rookies at both cornerback and safety, last season’s Buccaneers made significant strides toward rectifying their long-term problem area … and still finished dead last in defensive [jibberish]. Brent Grimes, a favorite of departed defensive coordinator Mike Smith, talked his way out of town. But for all the headaches he caused, Grimes was still clearly the closest the team had to a genuine No. 1 cornerback. Rookie M.J. Stewart made a positive impression in his debut campaign, and Vernon Hargreaves still has potential, but neither is that true top cornerback who would make such a difference to this Buccaneers secondary. The good news is that such prospects are probably available in this draft; the less good news is that rumors abound that the Buccaneers intend to spend their top pick on linebacker Devin White instead. It’s not that the team doesn’t need a linebacker … but the difference in value of the two positions should make grabbing a potential top cornerback the more expedient use of draft capital.
The word “value” is why Joe is so adamant about an edge rusher. Joe isn’t saying the Bucs have Ronnie Lott or Deion Sanders at corner (remember boys and girls, before he was an all-world safety, Lott was a killer of a cornerback). And one could make a logical argument for a corner.
However, the Bucs have an investment in Hargreaves. A big one. At worst, it sure smells as if Bucs defensive coordinator Todd Bowles is going to give Hargreaves every opportunity to show he believes and deserves a second contract. If he doesn’t, well, then bye.
Besides, a pass rush can help hide poor cornerback play. Without a pass rush, there isn’t a defensive coordinator alive that can hide a poor NFL corner.
April 16th, 2019 at 5:26 am
Blah,Blah,Blah!!!! Let’s get to the draft please! I still want white…
April 16th, 2019 at 5:47 am
Joe I agree. I good pass rush can help poor pass coverage. But good pass coverage helps pass rushers too. Let’s face it. We could use a lockdown CB, a beastly edge rusher, a replacement at DT for McCoy. The White kid is a sideline to sideline beast that would upgrade our LB position. I guess bottomline is we have many needs on this defense.
April 16th, 2019 at 5:57 am
The Bucs have so many needs on D they can go many directions (LB, DE, CB) but take the best player -Devon White. Don’t reach for these DE’s.
April 16th, 2019 at 5:58 am
Now you’re just getting desperate Joe.
@Joe … “The word “value” is why Joe is so adamant about an edge rusher.” Aahh yes, the REAL reason you don’t want a MLB … you don’t VALUE LBs the same as you do DEs. Horsepuckey. Bucs ranked #24 in Rushing Yardage Allowed and #29 in Rushing TDs Allowed last year. We gave up pass-after-pass in the middle. WE GOT EATEN ALIVE in the middle of the field and no additional DEs would’ve changed that. If we don’t fix that, we’re looking at 5-11 again … at best.
Since the Bucs have obviously moved on from GMC, we NEED a stud DT and we NEED a stud MLB to clean up that mess. What we’ve got won’t hack it. Whether we draft DT then MLB or we draft MLB then DT should depend solely on who’s still available when we pick. If Q Williams is still on the board, he’s our pick at #5 then we grab a MLB (might be able to wait until Round 3 for a MLB depending on who’s been taken). If Williams is gone by #5, Devin White gets the call then we grab the next best DT still available (might be able to wait until Round 3 for a DT depending on who’s been taken).
April 16th, 2019 at 6:09 am
Are you kidding me ?
Now the Bucs have an investment in Hargreaves who you have crushed many times for being a ghost. But you are trying to use it to prove Bucs have other needs then inside linebacker. So against devin white.
Hahahahahah
Dude. How many games has Hargreaves played since being In the nfl and howmnay has he missed as a result of injury. You can’t rely on this guy. He is not an investment anymore. He is a luxury if he plays.
April 16th, 2019 at 6:15 am
Finally Joe touched on it! It’s about VALUE. Each pick, every player, it’s all about value. If one of the big three aren’t there, there’s no one worth the 5th, MOVE DOWN. Increase the value (even if it means a bad deal).
These guys are way too hung up on staying put and drafting a guy for red/ability. But that’s not how you maximize draft capital or build out a successful team through the draft. You can’t do it with only 3 premium picks a year. Get that number to 5 and we’re talking.
Then all you have to do is not screw it up (Jason…)
April 16th, 2019 at 6:45 am
This draft needs to be:
1-front 7
2-front 7
3-front 7
4-7…CB, RG, HB, S
April 16th, 2019 at 7:04 am
How can this new staff be willing to give Hargreaves a second chance and be obdurate about giving Ronald Jones the same opportunity? Hargreaves, when he does play, repeatedly gets burnt like overcooked toast. Yet Jones’s career is to be judged on a mere 23 carries? Hope I’m wrong about that, but we hear raves about Hargreaves’s “ability” and nothing about Jones.
To put it euphemistically, it will be “interesting” to see what production Arians gets from last-year’s players compared to the previous regime.
“Colonists” with flushable toilets? Funny!
April 16th, 2019 at 7:09 am
I have a feeling the Bucs will really regret it if they pass on Ed Oliver.
April 16th, 2019 at 7:20 am
“4 linebackers was drafted in the draft last year
All 4 linebackers was the reason their defense improved drastiically
Von miller and chubb is the best pass rushing tandem in the NFL. Denvers defense sucked last year
The modern quick fast high completion percentage offense mitigates and coordinators can scheme against the pass rush (edge)
The 3 down pass coverage mlb is a must to defend the new modern offenses”
Kobe Faker
April 16th, 2019 at 7:21 am
” edit * 4linebackers drafted in the 1st round”
Kobe Faker
April 16th, 2019 at 7:22 am
Yep, listen to a guy who thinks MJ Stewart made a “Positive impression” yet doesn’t mention Carlton Davis. This guy didn’t watch any games lol
April 16th, 2019 at 7:24 am
Beef up the trenches but I’d still like white lol
April 16th, 2019 at 7:31 am
All in on D White…look at teams in the NFC South….THEY ALL HAVE TOP RBs in the NFL and if you can play defense like all the teams in the NFC South and then run the ball, YOU WIN. The bucs cannot run the ball the bucs cannot stop the run, therefore the bucs are not a top team in the South nor NFL. Go get D White who is a top pick in the draft and try to stop the 3 RBs from the saints, panthers and falcons
April 16th, 2019 at 7:32 am
Using an analyst who suggests a CB to pine for a DE is really desperate. Value is subjective….this is not an exact science. Value is determined somewhat by need but mostly by performance….and performance for all draft picks is untested at this stage.
April 16th, 2019 at 7:36 am
We do need a corner but I haven’t heard a single expert claim that any of these corners are worth a top 10 pick. Where we sit at 5, it wouldn’t be prudent to draft a corner. The Bucs know that a pass rusher is the most valuable pick but we may have to choose from the 3rd best DE or 2nd best DT. Option 3 is to select a potential all pro linebacker ranked 1st at his position. Option 4 is to draft one of the top tackles and both are projected as right tackles. That’s too high for a right tackle.
April 16th, 2019 at 8:00 am
Having a stable at any position exposes holes at other positions. At this time the holes are at MLB, O line, and interior D Line. That is assuming we don’t resign GMC. So another interior lineman will be necessary for when goes back to a base 4-3.As for MLB, Minter played a limited role and ended up on IR. There is a pressing need to find a new RG. We don’t even know if Dotson has one good year left. We need to be able to run the ball equally well on either side of center. Licht said elsewhere ,he thinks Cappa is ready to start, but where? Will he be Benonoch’s replacement or Dotson’s heir apparent?
April 16th, 2019 at 8:02 am
edit: when Bowles goes back to a base 4-3.
April 16th, 2019 at 8:04 am
Nah there’re good, like your boy said they got Stewart
April 16th, 2019 at 8:05 am
What is Joe gonna do whenhe turns in his press pass once White is drafted?
April 16th, 2019 at 8:21 am
One other question about Cappa. Will Licht or the offensive line coach make this call. We can no longer afford to place any player in the wrong position for a
year. It doesn’t help the the team or the players progression or confidence.
April 16th, 2019 at 8:40 am
2010 the Chiefs drafted Eric Berry 5th overall. What the h3ll were they thinking??? I think this whole certain positions shouldn’t be drafted in the top 10 is a Tampa fanbase thing. Screw a chart,see a bad@$$ draft bad@$$. At that’s what smart organizations do.
April 16th, 2019 at 8:41 am
Chicken or the egg? With no help in the middle, like last year, the opposition will just gash us. With no help on the back end and no pass-rush, teams will just throw on us.
Bottom line: We need BOTH!
IMO though, it’s imperative that we start from the front.
April 16th, 2019 at 8:45 am
DT preferably @5… maybe a DE…OL in the 2nd round…then fill BPA matched with needs the remainder of the draft….bring in cast off vet RB & CB after the draft…there are always players like GMC that can still play but are released by teams that have just drafted their replacements
“Besides, a pass rush can help hide poor cornerback play. Without a pass rush, there isn’t a defensive coordinator alive that can hide a poor NFL corner.”
April 16th, 2019 at 8:51 am
when your entire roster is garbage like the bucs it makes these debates very entertaining considering they literally need every position on defense and an entirely new offensive line and rb… no one will be satisfied and the bucs will earn another basement title like a good little minor league franchise that is irrelevant tot he league it plays in. they virtual need help at every level of offense and defense
reading your passionate posts is equally entertaining… some of you actually think bucs matter and will get out of the basement soon. I truly feel for those of you that actually believe the glazers are trying and will field a competitive team…. it’s cute to think they try but it’s not reality.
it’s a 3-13 roster and 0-16 franchise….
April 16th, 2019 at 9:00 am
Denver’s D was top 13 last year / better than anything we’ve fielded recently….
That’s with them having a horrible QB/offense that punted a lot
April 16th, 2019 at 9:00 am
NOSBOS, that is how winning franchises do things, just like taking Mahomes who they did when he was supposed to be lower round 1 or in 2 and then a flyer on Tyreke Hill and then also getting rid of their DE, who someone at joe bucs was dying for the bucs to grab. The bucs make JV moves and get the record they have
April 16th, 2019 at 9:03 am
Dline don’t care if it’s a DT or DE but we need to win the trenches.
April 16th, 2019 at 9:05 am
Lord Corn
Rankings are less than meaningless and what perennial losers cling to when they know the team cant win on sundays…. dungy the clowns defensive units were always ranked high but they never won anything that matter nor were they post season contenders…. rankings mean nothing winning on Sunday’s in the post season is all that matters everything is just fluff or sad attempts to justify 40 years of buc failures.
April 16th, 2019 at 9:20 am
D-Line
O-Line
LB-
CB
April 16th, 2019 at 9:21 am
D-Line
O-Line
LB
CB
April 16th, 2019 at 9:40 am
wausa
i agree….
passing on ed oliver would be dumb….
since there are good RB’s in the NFC SOUTH, drafting a stud like ed oliver to pair with VV would make those offenses predictable…..aint no way they running between the tackles…..they’ll bounce everything outside…..
and if we draft devin white, olinemen will be blocking the sh!t out of him because they’ll be getting to the second level with ease…..
VV and ed oliver will consistently require double teams that will allow LVD, minter, bucannon, barrett to stay clean…..
draft ed oliver…..he’ll improve the run and pass defense…..
#REALISTKNOWSNOTHING!!!!…GO BUCS!!!!!
April 16th, 2019 at 9:42 am
A DE ina 3-4 has different responsibilities than a DE in a 4-3
God this fanbase is dumb af
April 16th, 2019 at 9:43 am
Yea Dusthy our fans tickle me man,”hold up hold up before we turn the pick in double check the chart”😁.
April 16th, 2019 at 9:44 am
Loyaltotheend ain’t it strange man..
April 16th, 2019 at 9:44 am
Again “Someone”. Who is this mystery someone Edge player who is expected to be there at 5. And just to put it out there because of your Ira Pod rant. MLBs are closer to the action then a SLB or WLB.
April 16th, 2019 at 9:45 am
The people from PFF also seem to say that CB is the second most valuable position after QB. But at #5 we need a star player and it doesn’t seem that any of the CBs are slam dunk prospects. If Licht and Bruce really like one of them and the top Dline/Edge are gone, it could very well happen.
April 16th, 2019 at 10:07 am
Tired of this style of argument. 5 is too high for …… If White is a Patrick Willis or Ray Lewis type of player, 1 isn’t too high. He’s not a Kuechley type. Kuechley was a tackling machine in college and his production nearly doubles what White did so don’t make that argument. My big thing he only had 1 INT for his college career.
The “I don’t care if he’s Willis or Lewis, a “run-stuffing” MLB isn’t worth the 5th pick” is as tired as “I don’t trust Alabama defenders” (see Payne and Allen, I wish that was the Bucs interior today)
My opinion is that if Q. Williams somehow drops to 5, you don’t use the phone, you cartwheel up and announce the pick yourself. If not and you feel White is possibly Willis, make the pick and hope you forget the MLB position for the next 10 seasons.
April 16th, 2019 at 10:22 am
Trade back and get more picks. Shore up picks for next few drafts as well.
April 16th, 2019 at 10:37 am
” Without a pass rush, there isn’t a defensive coordinator alive that can hide a poor NFL corner.
Without a pass rush there isn’t a corner in the league that can shine.
April 16th, 2019 at 10:37 am
The pick should be white at 5. Not anymore ” highly rated” defensive linemen who are not going to make an impact for sure. As the Bucs transition to a 3-4 defense clearly will need more than Lavonte at linebacker. Would u rather have a sideline to sideline tackling machine who is a leader and not a cream puff, or a overrated lineman who didn’t REALLY dominate in college ( look at actual stats, not highlight tape )… Imho the choice is clear. Especially after drafting Vita last year, Vita is our replacement for 93. And White is our new 58 but better !!!
April 16th, 2019 at 10:58 am
lol Tmax my point isn’t about wins or losses or any of that… it was to counter Kobe’s point that Denver’s D “sucked” last year.
Denvers D did not suck. Denver sucked. But not the defense. Not trying to say Denver was awesome or deserved more wins. That’s not the point. This is about the value of a pass rush.
Denver gave up 21.8 PPG (13th). 11th in yards per drive given up and 9th in points per drive given up.
Bucs gave up 29 PPG (31st). 22nd in yards and 30th in points per drive given up.
Both teams sucked but Kobe is trying to say Denver’s D sucked even with elite pass rush – when their D was infinitely better than ours BECAUSE of that pass rush. They also had Chris Harris JR who is better than any secondary player we have but that’s about it for marquee secondary names for them now. They thrived on the pass rush / front 7 which isn’t anywhere close to what it used to be; but still had Miller/Chubb/Barrett last year.
That said – I agree with Kobe that 3 down LB that can cover is more important today than it was 5-10+ years ago due to what offenses are doing.
But pass rush is important. Coverage is too. You need balance to both.
If you don’t have a good pass rush you basically are counting on having 2 island shut down Derrel Reivs corners so you can blitz every play.
If you have an athletic front 7 that gets pressure and destroys the run game then you can get by with average CBs
April 16th, 2019 at 11:25 am
The only way we should consider drafting a CB in the first round is if we trade back because all the top 5 players are gone. In other words, we should not draft one in the first round.
If we draft one at 5, the Glazers should disable Licht’s key card to One Buc Palace!
April 16th, 2019 at 11:37 am
If you look at the highlights for White they are not impressive. He doesn’t hit, he arm tackles, he gets blown up by blockers. He is not a #5 draft pick.
April 16th, 2019 at 11:40 am
VH3 will be better as a press-man corner than Off/Zone corner.
But that doesn’t mean I’d pass on a true #1 CB in the draft.
If the Bucs trade out of the #5 (down to #10-15 range) & collect extra picks…Greedy Williams should be in play, if a Top15 Edge isn’t left on the board. (Burns or Sweat).
April 16th, 2019 at 11:49 am
For the 15th time, why can’t Devin White rush the QB, especially in a system THAT IS NOT the 4-3.
April 16th, 2019 at 1:22 pm
Hey Joes my favourite British word for that is balderdash lol
April 16th, 2019 at 4:06 pm
Bollocks! They’ve got a few words for it. Not to be confused with the dog’s bollocks. Now if Licht can somehow pick up extra picks and nab an impact edge rusher in round one that’d be the dog’s bollocks. Drafting a linebacker or corner or another DT at 5 would be Bollocks.
April 16th, 2019 at 5:51 pm
What Joe refuses to understand is that an ILB in 3-4 does not just run stuff the middle… that’s nonsense. First of all, White would likely become the “QB” of the defense, making reads and potentially changing coverages. Secondly, his sideline-to-sideline athleticism means that even he lines up in the middle to start a play, he can chase down runners or cover RB/TE in routes all over the field. Thirdly, White has shown he can be an effective Blitzer, and with Bowles bringing an aggressive attacking scheme, he likely will do so. There’s your QB pressure right there. As a 3-4 ILB, he will have a lot of roles and do a lot of tackling, covering, and pressuring. In other words, he will do it all. Dee Ford had 13 sacks and 29 QB hits last season, which means he got the QB on 2-3 plays a game. So if the edge rusher we draft end up being one of the best, that’s what we will get. Certainly seems that the LB patrolling the field and calling the shots will affect the game a lot more.
April 16th, 2019 at 6:53 pm
Lordy Joe, you’re off the deep end with this. The fact that you find yourself pulling your hair out in disagreement with most other draft observers doesn’t make you wrong, but *should* make you question yourself.
I only slightly hope things shuffle so someone else (Williams? unexpectedly falls to us at 5, but would be happy with White as the BPA in one area of need
April 17th, 2019 at 9:14 am
Love you guys but as a Brit, I have to say that rubbish just means trash!
April 19th, 2019 at 4:14 pm
Sooo this article is saying draft a CB w/ the 1st round pick. Fine! WHO’S A CB WORTH TAKING THAT HIGH?!?!??!??
Sometimes I think ppl are bored lol. Another thing that made me lose interest in this article is it talks about Stewart showing promise as a CB, instead of talking about the corner from last yr draft who actually played solid (Davis). Stewart showed sooo much that we decided to move him to safety Lmao…
I’m oook w/ draft inside LB @ 5…I would be OK w/ a d-lineman too…I think we have so much needs we can go either way. Yes lineman is more value than MLB…guess what, we need both lol