Corey Ivy: Vernon Hargreaves Best In The Slot
April 22nd, 2019
Where does Vernon Hargreaves belong on the football field?
And why does that seem to be such a tough question surrounding the career of the 11th pick in the 2016 NFL Draft?
You don’t draft a cornerback No. 11 overall to play the slot, but loud voices in the prior Bucs coaching regime thought Hargreaves was best suited there. And add former Bucs cornerback Corey Ivy (2001-2004) to that chorus.
After leaving Tampa Bay, Ivy went on to play for the Rams and Ravens. His nine-year career included nine playoff games and a Super Bowl ring.
He got into coaching following retirement and was an Arizona coaching intern for Bucco Bruce Arians and Todd Bowles in Arizona before coaching in Baltimore. Ivy now lives in the Orlando area and is working with the University of Central Florida, so he told something called the 3rd Prize Podcast this week.
In chatting about the Bucs, Ivy was clear he believes Hargreaves is best suited to the slot corner role where Ivy thinks he can best use his quickness.
Of course, Arians’ recent comments reveal he thinks Hargreaves is a budding stud outside cornerback who will press receivers and be just fine on islands in Bowles’ blitz-happy scheme.
Joe is trembling typing the following: Hargreaves is the best Buccaneers cornerback in a division with Drew Brees and Matt Ryan, and a Bucs defensive backfield with an unimpressive safety corps.
Joe sure hopes the Bucs have a late personnel trick up their sleeves for a quality defensive back addition (kinda like T.J. Ward 2017, except a guy who can actually play better than he stashes marijuna).
But more important, Joe hopes the Bucs place Hargreaves where he can play his best football, even if that means giving up the dream of him playing outside corner.
April 22nd, 2019 at 3:14 pm
We can’t overhaul the disaster that is the bucs defense in one offseason joe! Im hoping hargreaves can stay healthy and play up to his potential, but i am not buying the offseason kool aid on this defense. We are going to be a mess, hope we can score more than we give up!
April 22nd, 2019 at 3:19 pm
Kyle to be fair none of us have actually seen the Bucs defense yet,so to assume it will require overhauling is well… I’ll be nice today.
April 22nd, 2019 at 3:20 pm
As for the comments on VH3,don’t think BA saw a slot when they were formulating their draft board that year.
April 22nd, 2019 at 3:23 pm
Outside CB needed to be #1 priority in FA. Even it did cost us. VH3 is 5’11” is no where near Grimes on the outside, who all together wasn’t premiere CB himself. The very short amount of time VH3 was playing in the nickel last year, he looked much better than his outside play. Way too small to be covering Michael Thomas and Julio Jones. Like LB, CB is very small with any type of decent depth.
April 22nd, 2019 at 3:27 pm
I’d like to see him play some more outside before we permanently move him to nickel corner. As was mentioned above, you dont draft slot corners at #11.
April 22nd, 2019 at 3:29 pm
Based on who the Bucs have shown some interest in, it seems most likely they go versatile S earlier than CB
Safety:
Jonathon Abram 1-2
Nassir Aderly 1-2
Chauncey Gardner Johnson 1-2
Darnell Savage 2-3
Corner:
Lonnie Johnson 2-3
Jamel Dean 3-5
Blace Brown 5-7
Derrick Baity (CB) 6-undrafted
April 22nd, 2019 at 3:31 pm
Maybe he is just too bad for any position(?)
and why does Joe want to draft a RB so bad..
when our O-line plain and simple sucks.
a good O-line makes RB and QB better..
we could have Barry Sanders in his prime as RB, but with
this O-line, any RB will suck, because no Blocking..
April 22nd, 2019 at 3:36 pm
Carlton Davis looked better last season than Hargreaves has ever.
April 22nd, 2019 at 3:41 pm
Here’s the deal….
Arians knows that VH3 is the only possibility to cover the outside on the roster other than Carlton Davis……he builds players up in hopes that they will perform to the max……we really don’t have other options and no money to bring in a top FA…..
Do I trust BA more than Corey Ivy?……hell yes……
But I suspect that BA knows that we are sorely lacking in CBs…..
Hargreaves is better than he has shown….poor coaching and injuries have held him back. I suspect he will perform much better this year….
April 22nd, 2019 at 3:51 pm
Yet people keep saying Backstabbin’ Jason Licht is a great GM…
April 22nd, 2019 at 3:57 pm
Rhonde used to go to the slot on 3rd downs, just sayin’.
April 22nd, 2019 at 4:01 pm
So it sounds like Corey Ivy said that based upon his speed/size/quickness, he thinks that Hargreaves is suited for Slot.
I see nothing here that says that Ivy spent any time really analyzing any tape of Hargreaves. So the growing chorus of who-ever really does not matter. Feels like a nothing story here.
If you want to rely on Corey Ivy’s skill as a coach over Todd Bowles skill as a coach (especially cornerback) that is your choice Joe. I would go with Bowles as an expert for cornerbacks over Ivy, Ian Beckles, and whatever other guys who played in the league for a year or 3 to 4.
I think as a coach he (Ivy) was an intern for Arizona and Baltimore and has not caught on as a coach at any level other than an intern.
As a player, he was a much worse player than Hargreaves but you listed the fact that he played in the payoffs and super bowl like that made him an outstanding player. He was not!
April 22nd, 2019 at 4:07 pm
^^^
Found the Florida Gator fan…
April 22nd, 2019 at 4:19 pm
Lord Cornelius
So down for Lonnie Johnson Jr. in 2-3! Dude is a beast. Him and Carlton on the outside with VH3 at nickel? Could go from sh!t to shine in a quick minute.
Does anyone know if the Bucs brought him in for a private meeting at OBP???
April 22nd, 2019 at 4:34 pm
I thought VH3 was drafted so high because of his press corners skills. Who has seen VH3 play a reds corner since coming to the nfl? Who has seen any corner play press for Tampa bay since lovie got here? Who has seen any corner playing less than 5 yards off the ball?
If I’m BA and I’m having my first OTA before the draft I’m going to VH3 and making him press Evans Godwin and Perriman until I’m able to decide if he can be the guy or if I need to draft someone high
April 22nd, 2019 at 4:34 pm
I’m so down with Johnathan Abrams. Man what adding two alphas could do to the overall performance of this defense.
April 22nd, 2019 at 4:36 pm
Answered my own question. He was one of the last of the 30 private visits.
April 22nd, 2019 at 4:40 pm
Tyrin Mathtieu,Jamal Adams. Next in line Johnathan Abrams. Cut from the same cloth.
April 22nd, 2019 at 4:42 pm
D-Rome Says:
April 22nd, 2019 at 4:07 pm
^^^
Found the Florida Gator fan…
Nope not a Florida Gator nor Florida State Seminole fan. Sorry for me but just a Buc’s fan.
Please do not construe my comment above about knowing that Hargreaves is going to be even decent. Hope he is – or better than decent. I am always just surprised at the range that Joe’s try to act like someone they talked to is an expert.
That was my non-clear point – last post.
April 22nd, 2019 at 4:52 pm
The Bucs better hope that VHIII turns into something he’s never been in Tampa Bay: A reliable defensive back.
History shows otherwise.
April 22nd, 2019 at 5:00 pm
Who?
April 22nd, 2019 at 5:05 pm
Fartin Martin Says:
April 22nd, 2019 at 3:57 pm
Rhonde used to go to the slot on 3rd downs, just sayin’.
Ronde…and Joe knows who you meant.
April 22nd, 2019 at 5:06 pm
“Lol!
Milli vanilli
Im guessing the outside corner will last 2 games if he is lucky
Which game was it? It was hilarious! Vikings games? Mike Smith was trying to hide VH3 who was getting burned all game. Outside then to the slot and to the 5th reciever…
It was so funny because the offensive coordinators was calling pass plays to whomever VH3 was trying to cover!
There was no better play to call than to throw anywhere VH3 was!”
Kobe Faker
April 22nd, 2019 at 5:14 pm
If he is jamming guys at the LOS he can hide his lack of speed and utilize his quickness.
When he was playing 10 yards off LOS he had to rely on his speed to cover ground and he just doesnt have that closing speed.
April 22nd, 2019 at 5:21 pm
Be nice if the opposing. QB didn’t have all day to throw also.
Josh Allen had 27 sacks last year. I hope the jets take Oliver. Then we get either Josh or Williams.
April 22nd, 2019 at 5:25 pm
im not judging anyone after seeing them play in smitty’s defense…..lol….
and as someone mentioned above, he rated so high coming out of the draft because of his technique, footwork and man press ability…..
and what does smitty and dirk do?…..force him to play off….lol….
im trusting BA and TB on this one…..i like corey, but he needs to pump the brakes…..no one has seen him play man press since he’s been in the league…..
#REALISTKNOWSNOTHING!!!!…GO BUCS!!!!!
April 22nd, 2019 at 5:28 pm
SOEbuc … Like you (I’m guessing), I prefer taller corners outside. But there really is more to it than JUST height. Bears defense did quite well last year (#1 in POINTS ALLOWED), and their two CBs are Prince Amukamara (6’0″) and Kyle Fuller (5’11”). BTW, Fuller was drafted by the Bears in the 1st Rnd of 2014 draft … last year he had 7 INTs & 21 PDs. Not too shabby for a 5’11” outside corner … who happens to play on an excellent overall defense. And that’s a key: decent CBs can look REALLY BAD on a REALLY BAD defense.
Not at all saying that VHIII will be another Kyle Fuller this year, BUT … playing in a better scheme MAY make a difference. Personally agree with Corey Ivy that VHIII is better in the slot than outside. And BTW, MAY make a difference for Ryan Smith as well as Carlton Davis. Only time will tell.
April 22nd, 2019 at 5:34 pm
Article makes me think of and want more of a trade back. BA huge love for VH3 is hopefully a major smokescreen. VH3 has had nothing but a history of health issues and bad numbers on the outside and we have terrible depth at CB. Stewart moving to safety does not sound like a smokescreen. Who’s starting at nickel? Some middle/late round rookie or one of the chumps we have on the roster?
Unless it’s Oliver, trade back in the first for another second or third. Pick up one of the many impressive DL still available in the first and get a large Carlton Davis type with the extra second or third round pick to play outside.
CB is our largest sink hole at the moment.
April 22nd, 2019 at 5:46 pm
If Josh Allen had 27 sacks last year he would be the 1st overall pick LMAO.
April 22nd, 2019 at 6:18 pm
My guess is Vernon will get torched by speed or beat with size, inside or outside.
To date, this dude’s career-defining play came against the Saints a couple of years ago in a December game against the Saints. VH3 dropped an easy pick and then proceeded to dance (like Gerald and Kwon’s rehersal last year) like he had just won the damn Super Bowl.
The Bucs were down by 8 points (I think) and proceeded to lose the game and any hopes of the playoffs.
But VH3 got to do his dance…
That’s the kind of “talent” the Bucs have in him.
April 22nd, 2019 at 7:04 pm
Pretty sure VH3 is faster than Ronde ever was….just saying
April 22nd, 2019 at 7:06 pm
I’m a fan of big press corners but can we get one with speed to burn, worried that Ryan Smith is considered one of our fastest corners
April 22nd, 2019 at 7:12 pm
It’s clear to me most of you have never ran a 40 before. 4.5 flat is plenty fast for the NFL along with a 39 in vertical that’s crazy atheletic. Don’t think many here would know anything about either.
April 22nd, 2019 at 7:15 pm
Richard Sherman 4.56. Did quite well being what y’all would call slow.
April 22nd, 2019 at 7:34 pm
Just ready for some dang Bucs ball, and a vastly improved defense…I hope
April 22nd, 2019 at 7:40 pm
vh3bust best position is coaching pop warner in clearwater not in the nfl… shor slow and stupid can not be coached or fixed.
April 22nd, 2019 at 8:03 pm
Is it Thursday yet
April 22nd, 2019 at 8:08 pm
A.J Bouye 4.55. Didn’t give up a touchdown all of 2017 regular season. Less about speed more about technique. A.J made his money not because of speed but more so because he is know to be a master technician.
April 22nd, 2019 at 8:11 pm
Most of us do know something about CBs getting their a** ate up for lunch regardless of their 40 time or vertical jump.
Especially corners who dance around like they’ve done anything in this league.
Vernon has a lot to prove.
I hope he can do it, I’m just not sold.
April 22nd, 2019 at 8:23 pm
“Straight away speed is overrated as 75% of the players are roughly in the same range
Separation, come back, recovery, change of direction and technique needs quickness
Milli doesn’t have the quick feet and hipsn no explosiveness”
Kobe Faker
April 22nd, 2019 at 8:31 pm
Why do people keep bringing up a cb who won a pathetic 5 play off games in his underachieving career that he hung onto way to long. System cb that hung on to long hardly great or hardly a legend… comparing players to underachieving has beens is funny so keep going
April 22nd, 2019 at 8:55 pm
@ Kobe
Not sue where your current hate of a buc player is being placed but the assets VH does have are the quick feet, hipspin and explosiveness are the attributes he has. You seem to enjoy your ridiculous comments that have no basis. He does have a lot to prove but those are off base.
April 22nd, 2019 at 9:11 pm
As an organization it’s in the Bucs best interest to plan on moving away from VHIII after this year. He has proven to be completely unreliable and not very skilled.
Even if Vernon has a great season I would not be on board signing him for a big long-term contract.
It will not be a bad idea to be proactive and draft a guy this year. The good thing is they don’t have to reach. If they don’t like who falls to them it’s should be a easy pass….If a guy they like is on the board at good value they should snag him up.
April 22nd, 2019 at 9:36 pm
Was totally overdrafted
April 22nd, 2019 at 10:01 pm
I still say that VH3 needs to learn how to tackle. Watch film of him tackling. Not a big hitter either.