Window Closed?
March 25th, 2019
Salary dooming Bucs?
Two years ago, Joe made the statement the Bucs only had a short window to make a real Super Bowl run with the current roster plan. Joe got crushed by many Bucs fans.
Joe used to appear weekly on “The Steve Duemig Show,” hosted by the dean of Tampa Bay sports radio, Joe’s good friend Steve Duemig. For years, it was one of the highest-rated programs, a juggernaut during PM drivetime. There, Joe detailed the reasons for the short window, and not only did Duemig mock Joe, so too did many of his callers.
The reasoning was simple: the Bucs had to make a playoff push before the salary of America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston, began eating a fat percentage of the salary cap. That salary would cut the Bucs’ ability to spend on good players and they didn’t have enough good drafts behind them to overcome the need to play in free agency.
Now look where the Bucs are. They have lost 22 games the past two seasons, Jameis’ salary has jumped and the Bucs barely have enough cash to buy used tape.
Jenna Laine of ESPN writes this is the new norm and she shared disturbing data when it comes to paying quarterbacks.
Winston’s fifth-year option in 2019 gives a glimpse of the reality teams with quarterbacks on long-term deals — the Minnesota Vikings with Kirk Cousins, the Falcons with Matt Ryan and the Green Bay Packers with Aaron Rodgers — have faced, which really started with Joe Flacco’s extension with the Baltimore Ravens in 2013.
In fact, only one team with one of the five highest-paid quarterbacks (Falcons, Packers, Ravens, plus the San Francisco 49ers with Jimmy Garoppolo and Detroit Lions with Matthew Stafford) made the playoffs in 2018 — and Flacco was on the bench for the Ravens.
It is well-established that without a quarterback, you have no shot to win a Super Bowl. Now, it seems if you have a highly-paid quarterback, you can’t win a Super Bowl. What the hell?
With the current CBA set to expire after the 2020 season, Joe wouldn’t be shocked if there is a provision in the new labor agreement that states a quarterback’s salary (or perhaps a percentage of it) will not count against the cap, therefore allowing greater competitive balance.
If one position is eating up too much of cap, then owners will be less likely to cough up big-time cash for said position. Clearly, the players don’t want that. This leads Joe to believe something in the next labor agreement will be negotiated to allow for teams to keep quarterbacks with less of a salary cap hit.
Laine’s information also tells Joe that Tom Brady is terribly underpaid.
March 25th, 2019 at 12:13 am
Tom Brady realizes what it takes to win a SB. …a little monetary sacrifice. And now because of his unselfish show me da money attitude he has won 6 SB’s and will be a first ballot HOFamer.
March 25th, 2019 at 12:17 am
Couldn’t agree more Joe. Except for the fact that Tom Brady is underpaid. What can he buy with 20 more million that he can’t on his current salary. People can hate him if they want to but obviously winning means more to him than greed. Too bad there isn’t more guys like him in the NFL. You would think maybe Gerald McCoy would take a page out of his playbook and renegotiate to save some cap space so he could truly retire as a Buc.
March 25th, 2019 at 1:00 am
Tom Brady keeps cutting weight, eating healthy, and lowering salary and gets better every year. Why would (only Joe’s America’s QB) want to kill the Bucs financially without proving anything and gain weight on top of it? C’mon Joe.
March 25th, 2019 at 1:32 am
Quarterback salary does not prevent teams from playoffs or Super Bowls at all unless you make joe Flacco money and played so bad you get replaced by a rookie. Just look at our own division, all the quarterbacks have made playoffs and trips to the Super bowl paying them big money. Can’t base an article on one year of salaries to prove a point about a new norm in the nfl. Like the pats and the Rams it’s about the quarterback head coach tandem.
March 25th, 2019 at 1:54 am
Tom Brady has a wife that makes 30mil a year. Not that that matters, but it’s a fact! I think the next CBA will address salary growth for all positions by seeking to align it with revenue growth by way of expansion in more US cities and foreign countries. LBs are at the 20mil mark for crying out loud. The cap has increased by 10mil for the last 10 years. That kind of salary growth can only be sustained by commensurate revenue growth. The TV networks are maxed out and can’t pay anymore.
March 25th, 2019 at 2:35 am
Duemig’s show is where I first heard about your site many years ago. Been my main source for Bucs news ever since
March 25th, 2019 at 2:39 am
Not America’s QB, Joe’s QB.
March 25th, 2019 at 2:46 am
You finally get it
March 25th, 2019 at 4:22 am
Bucs are fine on salary, they are not in salary cap hell, they’re choosing who to spend on and who to not spend on. In a couple of years McCoy and JPP will have aged out, and hopefully we have replacements ready to go. Brate isn’t going to be a backup $7m TE for long. The ginger at center will be gone next season if he’s as mediocre as he was this last year. David, with as much as I love him, will have his salary up. etc, etc, etc…
ALL teams must make choices on players unless they’re truly so awful they have an unlimited budget – in which case they have to overpay just to get mediocre talent in the door.
If Winston steps up, has a full year as THE guy and shows what I think he can, none of this other stuff will be of much of a concern. If Winston isn’t the guy then you’re blowing up the team anyways and starting over.
So stop worrying about it, the one thing the Bucs have done well, probably best in the NFL, is managing their cap and keep those cap hits clean and it gives them a ton of options every year.
March 25th, 2019 at 4:37 am
Dadgum good points Munch. Maybe you should write for JBF. You already do and don’t get paid! I think Winston will get 2 years to prove he’s the guy. Reasoning, he has an average and unlucky season that doesn’t make or break him. Give him another year on the Franchise Tag
March 25th, 2019 at 5:14 am
Can’t blame Jameis for this one. The Bucs had three options with the Winston contract:
1. Trade or release him.
2. Sign him to a multi year deal with the possibility of him, like Brady, taking less yearly money in exchange for multiple years.
3. Pick up the fifth year option (which they did) on his current contract.
Remember, like all rookies, rookie contracts are slotted per the last NFL-Players agreement. As the number one pick, Jameis’s fifth year option was set in stone the day he signed his first contract. If you’re not a Jameis fan, blame the Bucs for picking up the option. But you cannot site greed from the Jameis camp as the reason for the current salary cap issues.
March 25th, 2019 at 5:16 am
start over
March 25th, 2019 at 5:20 am
The A Train Says:
“You would think maybe Gerald McCoy would take a page out of his playbook and renegotiate…”
Wrong player to retructure. would be smarter to do Mike Evans…seeing as he’s getting 20 million…McCoy restructuring before the draft would be a mistake. See if we can make him expendable first.
March 25th, 2019 at 5:21 am
Seriously Joe? “Bucs only had a short window to make a real Super Bowl run with the current roster plan”. Bucs haven’t even sniffed the PLAYOFFS, much less the SUPER BOWL, for over 10 years.
Being optimistic is great, but there has to be some foundation for that optimism. Bucs haven’t had a true ‘roster plan’ for at least the last 15 years now. What we have had is a BUNCH of musical free agents, necessitated because of poor drafting. IF our management’s philosophy has been to ‘build through the draft’, what exactly does a 55-105 record say about the effectiveness of that philosophy over this past decade? Or a 93-147 record over the past 15 years.
Bucs have had THREE GMs since 2004 … Allen, Dominik & Licht. Each has had a 5-year reign of terror. All 3 operated under the SAME OWNERSHIP, and each has had disappointing results. Allen actually had the best record (38-42), probably because he had a proven HC (Gruden) with a winning track record, but more specifically IMO because he benefitted from Monte’s defense. Dominic had the second best record (28-52) via TWO HCs, BOTH first-time NFL HCs. Licht has the worst record (27-53) and is now on his THIRD HC.
And yes, I agree with those who’ve made a good point about ‘cronyism’ … Lovie & Dirk failed largely because of hiring key staff with marginal qualifications for their positions. BA has gone down that same road, but hopefully it’ll be with different results. What scares me is that that’s the working definition of ‘crazy’.
March 25th, 2019 at 5:45 am
” IF our management’s philosophy has been to ‘build through the draft’, what exactly does a 55-105 record say about the effectiveness of that philosophy over this past decade? Or a 93-147 record over the past 15 years.
Bucs have had THREE GMs since 2004 … Allen, Dominik & Licht. Each has had a 5-year reign of terror. All 3 operated under the SAME OWNERSHIP, and each has had disappointing results.” SO TRUE @defense rules! These are the real stats! Jameis $ isn’t what’s dooming the Bucs, it’s his play on the field.
March 25th, 2019 at 5:46 am
When was this “window” ever open in the last 10 years + ?
March 25th, 2019 at 5:46 am
@The A Train… to compare Brady and McCoy is useless. Brady is a true champion who is unselfish to a fault only cares about championships and works hard 365 days a year…. Batman on the other hand is abselfish way overpaid and under performing selfish me first F… the team but I am going to smile all the time to cover up my greediness. He also couldn’t give two spits about winning as long as his checks clear so he can keep buying comic books and red Komono robes to make a spectacle of himself. There lies the difference, that and six rings.
March 25th, 2019 at 5:50 am
Not there yet,
I won’t attempt to speak for the Joe’s. I will point out that Joe identified a new trend in the NFL. . Albeit slow to emerge with just a few teams embracing the competitive advantage that the current CBA provides. Two of those teams are…,..the Rams and the Patriots.
Whereas you point to QB and Coach thus missing entirely the management model that both teams operate under . The Cleveland Browns are morphing from a lousy franchise into the odds on favorite to dethrone the championship patriots. How by implementing the exact model as the rams have. No not qb coach, QB rookie contract.
To your point, it’s valid but it’s not what joe wrote or implied. He points to a trend and you go 180 attempting what ….to disprove…sorry pal there’s nothing to disprove . Except what you already proved citing examples provided by ..well, you. Screwy thinking..
March 25th, 2019 at 6:13 am
Not there yet,
It’s not the norm. It’s an emerging trend. Oddly, your example, rams and pats, are two teams in that group trending. The browns are next. It’s QB , QB and contracts. I don’t believe that a new norm has been established and don’t expect it. The NFL isn’t a place that’s innovative and creative. Certainly not dynamic. It’s filled with dinosaurs. This includes fans.
March 25th, 2019 at 6:17 am
Building thru the draft is the equivalent of building a high speed rail line with 30 stops between tampa and orlando. Sounds good..high speed…but it’s too slow . Same with the draft.
March 25th, 2019 at 6:22 am
Teams can not afford to to gamble with huge salaries to QB’s IMO. It didn’t work with Mike Glennon,Joe Flacco, Case Keenum to name a few. Pay for performance,
include incentives for getting to playoffs and superbowl.
March 25th, 2019 at 6:57 am
While joe is talking about monetarily, The “Reality” is that there was no window at all!!!!!!! Between the very bad roster and a qb that folds like a lawn chair anytime there is pressure, and has let the team down at every turn!!!!!!!!!!! the “no money” will just become another excuse from a very long line of excuses for the qb and gm!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What happened to all the “hold them accountable” ?????????????????????
2019 season will reveal answers to the sheep, that the “real” fans already know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Go Bucs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
March 25th, 2019 at 7:16 am
The time to restructure GMC is later….after the draft. I think it will get done. And, I also agree that a restructure with Evans should be attempted.
The reason why we aren’t playoff bound is threefold….
One: Poor Coaching
Two: A decade pf missing on draft picks
Three: A QB that has been inconsistent, in particular with turnovers
Now, I am a Jameis fan…..but if you want to win you have to play like Brees & Brady…..but you also need a team.
Give Jameis a running game and an average defense and he will get it done.
Aaron Rodgers is a good QB but without a team behind him….no playoffs.
March 25th, 2019 at 7:22 am
If the window is closed/closing on losing, then I guess that means we will winning soon :p
March 25th, 2019 at 7:31 am
This is what happen when everything is based on Money. Should be based on production not just hype!!
March 25th, 2019 at 7:32 am
Tampabaybucfan is wrong!!!!!!!! the “real” three reasons are
One: Owners that would rather expand the brand then win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Two: overestimation of talent on the roster and trying to build off it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Three: Bad GM decision and lack one clear way of team building!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Your faith is poorly laid Tampabaybucfan!!!!!! smell the coffee and “realize” that the biscuit will be stale!!!!!!!!!!!!
2019 season will reveal answers to the sheep, that the “real” fans already know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Go Bucs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
March 25th, 2019 at 7:52 am
Before you can be as unselfish as Tom Brady, first you have to be a Tom Brady. It’s a catch 22
March 25th, 2019 at 7:57 am
Would be nice if Tallahassee’s QB played well enough to earn that kind of pay for 16 games
Good teams that draft and develop don’t have these problems. Bucs are overpaying McCoy, overpaying 3 underperforming offensive linemen and a host of others.
Licht is just so bad at his job that we can’t win with his roster moves
March 25th, 2019 at 7:59 am
If this is Winston’s “prove it” year and the team is out of chips, starts losing, creating great pressure on our Tampa Bay of America Pro Bowl Alternate QB…
March 25th, 2019 at 9:01 am
Lunchbox Says:
“Duemig’s show is where I first heard about your site many years ago. Been my main source for Bucs news ever since”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ditto & 100% the same here.
March 25th, 2019 at 9:41 am
you are screwed when you must pay a guy but hes not great, just average. Yjats why teams like vikes, bucs, giants ect are doomed.
March 25th, 2019 at 9:49 am
Not by me. All of your talk about a window for a Super Bowl was spot on because that is now the blueprint for winning in the NFL. The Rams, the Chiefs, the Browns, the Texans, the Eagles….they have been or are going to be in the mix for trying to make a legitimate Super Bowl run. The Bucs? Thanks to Backstabbin’ Jason Licht they not only wasted the opportunity with Jameis Winston they have also wasted Gerald McCoy’s and Lavonte David’s prime years. Not only that, but inept Dirk Koetter ended up doing less with the most talented Bucs roster in years.
March 25th, 2019 at 10:17 am
Tom Brady does under-the-table deals with Robert Kraft to make up for lost wages. He’s still getting his
March 25th, 2019 at 10:38 am
^^ Oh ok, lol.
March 25th, 2019 at 10:51 am
This window idea only applies to dumping boat loads of $$ into free agents because you have a cheap QB.
We did that but we have drafted bad and signed bad FAs so it didn’t matter.
In general you have to perpetually draft well to have perennial success regardless of your QB contract. That’s why I don’t like the “window” view of rookie QB contracts. .
Seattle didn’t win a SB because Russel Wilson was on a cheap contract. They won it because they had amazing defensive drafts that built a core that was able to be one of the best Ds in the league for 3-5 years. They weren’t winning SB’s on high priced FAs.
THe “window” talk would have only applied to the Bucs IF we were already a playoff team, and wanted to go hardcore in FA like the Rams did last year to take us over the top while the QB was still cheap. And even then your window won’t close if you keep drafting well.
Seattle already looking like they’ve re-stocked their cupboards through the draft the last few years. That’s why they are pretty damn good every year
March 25th, 2019 at 11:03 am
Excellent points all around, Lord Cornelius.
March 25th, 2019 at 11:07 am
Demon/Lunchbox/D-Rome:
Thanks for the kind words.
Without readers like all of you, Joe has no clue what he’d be doing theee days.
March 25th, 2019 at 11:46 am
^^ We definitely appreciate you being there and all that you do.
March 25th, 2019 at 11:59 am
Great point about Aaron Rodgers Tbbf – Does anyone think that Aaron Rodgers has forgotten how to play quarterback? Of course not. He, just like many good QB’s before him and some current ones are handcuffed by significant deficiencies around him. Sometimes it’s a stagnant offensive system that becomes predictable. Sometimes it’s a HORRIBLE defense or no running game. (Does any of this sound familiar Bucs fans?) My point is Aaron Rodgers is a first ballot Hall of Famer (most likely) and even HE cannot overcome ALL of his team’s weaknesses. I’m not saying Jameis is on A-rod’s level, is then it even reasonable to expect our own QB to overcome things to achieve success that not even a HOF QB can overcome by himself? I think if the Patriots have shown one thing, it’s that ALL ASPECTS of your team have to function at a high level to achieve sustained success.
March 25th, 2019 at 2:36 pm
Lord Corn,
Seattle signed a whole lot of UDFA . Cheap.
I don’t know why you think it’s a rookie QB contract and drafting well is mutually exclusive .
No one is limiting the thought process but you. Try thinking along the lines that teams that have embraced this philosophy vs finding exceptions. The fact that there is exceptions proves nothing. Amazing that you’d rather seek to find evidence to the contrary instead of being smart and learning why a new idea is proving successful.
If the bucs want to turn things around in one year and compete in two it’s worth a look. Unfortunately, some really delusional fans rather stay the course. The bucs ship is and has been pointed in one direction. Straight at that ice berg. To which some people believe that next year that ice berg won’t be there, while others advocate changing course to avoid that massive wall of ice. You really think that staying the course will be different this year…
March 25th, 2019 at 2:58 pm
Yep !! I’ve read this before
March 25th, 2019 at 3:24 pm
Up next !!! draft your highest paid positions in the first round !!! This will eventually be heard league wide and of coarse isn’t that possible but you don’t take a middle linebacker at 5 , u simply Can’t for cap reasons !!!
Licht is a Jock GM that is like a government , constantly telling on himself for poor performance but actually thinks hes giving an acceptable excuse !!! No he’s not , he’s telling us he’s learning as he goes and that is just ridiculous !!! He s given the fans some reasons for the teams struggles , ALL for witch he is Fully Responsible but he clearly thinks he’s afforded these excuses !!! Jason an excuse is really an unacceptable reason , now take off your helmet and pads and be an Executive , be an Executive Jason not a displaced Player !! What Again was that about the new nfl corner , hey this isn’t new and neither is Hardgraves !!! Be an Executive Jason ,not a coaches friend, players friend , stumble bum ,Glazer Fokker etc !!! sloppy is as sloppy does !!! Be an Executive !!!
Don’t draft non blocking , non pass catching backs with premium picks when they are both bigger parts of your offense than even the avg nfl offense . This equals a blunder on so many different levels , I mean a mess on many different levels !!!
March 25th, 2019 at 3:26 pm
Glazer fooler
March 25th, 2019 at 6:35 pm
Issaic haggins Says:
March 25th, 2019 at 3:24 pm
Up next !!! draft your highest paid positions in the first round !!! This will eventually be heard league wide and of coarse isn’t that possible but you don’t take a middle linebacker at 5 , u simply Can’t for cap reasons !!!
Licht is a Jock GM that is like a government , constantly telling on himself for poor performance but actually thinks hes giving an acceptable excuse !!! No he’s not , he’s telling us he’s learning as he goes and that is just ridiculous !!! He s given the fans some reasons for the teams struggles , ALL for witch he is Fully Responsible but he clearly thinks he’s afforded these excuses !!! Jason an excuse is really an unacceptable reason , now take off your helmet and pads and be an Executive , be an Executive Jason not a displaced Player !! What Again was that about the new nfl corner , hey this isn’t new and neither is Hardgraves !!! Be an Executive Jason ,not a coaches friend, players friend , stumble bum ,Glazer Fooler etc !!! sloppy is as sloppy does !!! Be an Executive !!!
Don’t draft non blocking , non pass catching backs with premium picks when they are both bigger parts of your offense than even the avg nfl offense . This equals a blunder on so many different levels , I mean a mess on many different levels !!!
Issaic haggins Says