Smart Pass
March 29th, 2019
Jordan Howard = Peyton Barber.
Since Bucco Bruce Arians arrived in Tampa Bay as head coach, he has been singing the praises of Gale Sayers Peyton Barber.
So why would the Bucs trade for a Peyton Barber clone?
Last night, never-sitting-still Eagles general manager Howie Roseman traded for Bears running back Jordan Howard. This naturally got Bucs fans woke.
Not surprisingly, Bucs AC/DC-loving general manager Jason Licht has been under siege by fans outraged at the team being in salary cap hell despite losing 22 games the past season. News of the Howard trade only rattled Bucs fans’ cages and the attacks on Licht resumed last night, with Joe fielding questions about the trade.
Without chatting with any Bucs officials, Joe can give an educated guess as to why the Bucs, who have had a woeful running game for years, did not pull off a deal for Howard, who the Eagles got for a virtually worthless sixth-round pick.
Simply put, the Bucs have a Howard clone already in the backfield. His name is Peyton Barber.
Look at the numbers of both running backs the past two years.
Howard had significantly more carries than Barber the past two seasons, but both have virtually the same yards-per-carry average. And Howard played for a much better team.
So, yeah, the Bucs already have a Howard-type on the roster. And with the Bucs in salary cap hell they’re looking to trim salaries, not add a big one. Per Spotrac.com, Howard is expected to make $2 million this year; ironically the same as Barber. Both become free agents after the season.
March 29th, 2019 at 5:14 am
6-10
Last place safely secured once again
March 29th, 2019 at 5:16 am
Lol… ok joe. Not worth a 5th and dump gholston? Or a few other guys. Bonehead trade by the bears. Even dumber we couldn’t get him for just a fifth.
March 29th, 2019 at 5:42 am
Seriously Joe? “Simply put, the Bucs have a Howard clone already in the backfield. His name is Peyton Barber”. Not even close … you cherry-picked Howard’s stats.
Look at his THREE-year career (same as Barber). Howard carried the rock 778 times for 3370 yds and 24 TDs in 47 games with 44 starts. Barber carried the ball 397 times for 1517 yds and 9 TDs in 47 games with 21 starts. Howard was quite consistent for all 3 years in terms of performance, and was selected to the Pro Bowl in 2016 as a rookie (sound like Cadillac Williams?), whereas Barber got most of his stats last year.
Of significance, Howards average per carry (4.3 YPC) is exactly half a yard MORE than Barber’s (3.8 YPC). BTW, Le-Veon Bell’s average? Yup, 4.3 YPC (he & Howard are almost identical in size BTW). Neither Howard nor Barber is a huge receiving threat admittedly. But danged, for $2 mil and a 6th round pick, Bucs of all teams should NEVER have passed up Jordan Howard.
March 29th, 2019 at 5:46 am
i think it was a good move, cuz howard ain’t no better dan barber we dont need another to slow RB that average 3.7 per run #pound that block!
March 29th, 2019 at 5:48 am
Howard has (2) 1000 yard seasons in 3 seasons and was close this year at 935 yards, has 3,370 yards for his career. Barber has 1,517 yards for his career and NO 1000 yard seasons. Howard is better than Barber and they are not clones. Once again a reach of an article. The only factual take is Howard did play on a better team.
March 29th, 2019 at 5:54 am
Sure, virtually the same….except that Jordan Howard has way more carries, for way more yards, way more touchdowns and a higher YPC! Other than that, they are nearly identical!
Another missed opportunity to add a quality playmaker to this squad.
March 29th, 2019 at 5:56 am
You pull the trigger on this all day every day.
6th round 2020 even.
What happens if barber tears acl in offseason
Howard is set to make 2 mil this year
Barber makes more.
Can’t have enough good running backs
March 29th, 2019 at 6:04 am
Pete , Howard is clearly beating Barber in carries. He also played for a team with a dominant defense and an electric offense last season. Try again
March 29th, 2019 at 6:06 am
Similar run styles, ok, I’ll give you that. Statistically, some similarities. Let’s be real though. Howard is an accomplished back, Barber is NOT. Not yet.
There’s no way to convince me that Howard isn’t an upgrade. And, he was had for cheap, real cheap!
I hope Peyton balls out. Right now he’s the only RB worth a darn on this roster.
March 29th, 2019 at 6:14 am
Fist, does anyone else think it’s asinine to only include 2017-2018 stats for a comparison on any two players, much less RB’s??? Stupid. Sounds like some have mentioned it above. No idea why the @Joe’s thought that would somehow be compelling or something.
Second, actually Chicago’s Oline didn’t protect Trubisky all that well during the year, see his shoulder injury during and absence for a few games during 2018. Even though it’s “pass pro” at that point, a good Oline is a good Oline, thus a poor pass pro Oline doesn’t miraculously become top 10 in the league for run blocking. Tarik Cohen was used almost exclusively outside the hashmarks or in the passing game.
Third, here we go again thinking that a $2 million salary is “a lot”?? On what planet? It’s potentially a starting RB. Draft compensation was more than reasonable.
Lastly, I’m not necessarily saying that Howard would be a huge upgrade over Barber or anyone else for 1st and 2nd down running, I would have much preferred Crowell’s skill set over both (no matter what the friggin’pansies say out there), but what I am saying……..is that this article and “analysis” was…..meh. Off.
March 29th, 2019 at 6:45 am
Hey Joe I agree don’t need to grab Howard
However Barber will do nothing this year if we don’t get some changes on the OL
I believe Barber would be awesome with some beasts open up some kinda holes
March 29th, 2019 at 7:08 am
I don’t get this at all. Joe makes cases over and over again for picking up mediocre running backs like CJ Anderson and paying him, while saying we need help at RB. Then says someone like Jordan Howard is not worth a 6th round pick and 2 million because we already have a clone? Seriously? Howard has the third-most rushing yards of any running back in the league. Howard has set franchise records with the Bears, but his production gets hindered by competition like Tarik Cohen last season. We go and sign old man Ellington for half that cheap salary, but are okay with passing on Howard?
March 29th, 2019 at 7:09 am
You people are so clueless. Let’s see one team has a running back and their offensive focus is on the running game. The other team has a running back and their focus is on the passing game. I wonder which back be more productive????? Duh you people are unreal with how little you understand football. My goodness it is mind boggling to understand how you even enjoy the sport when you clearly know so little, and to be clear I’m no genius but come on do even watch the games??!!?!?!?!?!
Football is about mindset, drive, determination, scheme and above all TEAM WORK. Running the ball well is a mind set, you have to WANT to run not just do it cause your supposed to, how can you people not see that or understand that?
March 29th, 2019 at 7:19 am
“Benenoch can play all the mind games he wants…
But he still cant block”
Kobe Faker
March 29th, 2019 at 7:19 am
What happens if Barber gets hurt & is out for the whole season? Yep, another losing season. Ba. if your going to talk the talk you better be able to walk the walk. This team will never change.
March 29th, 2019 at 7:23 am
Geez Joe , you posts stats showing Howard is better but yet call them the same… SMH
March 29th, 2019 at 7:27 am
Joe, I get it you have to be in lichts pocket to get some gems from licht weight but, seriously on this one? Jordan Howard is much better than Barber and he did it in an offense last year that was drastically different than the ones under john fox. Howard for a 6th round draft pick is a steal and an immediate upgrade at RB for the bucs. 5-11 in 2019, when will licht get canned he is the best at sitting on his hands and drafting ppl from division 3 colleges who cannot make it in the nfl
March 29th, 2019 at 7:34 am
Ugh. You people do realize Howard ran behind a real OLine and had a real defense? He is no upgrade at all. Brings you virtually nothing in the passing game.
March 29th, 2019 at 7:35 am
Not sure you should hold your breath. Aside from right guard, where will these changes be (short of an injury)? Bucs had a chance to walk away from both starting tackles and instead, re-upped them. Team is already behind Ali Marpet and Ryan Jensen if not in words, surely in cash (Bucs are not paying them $10 million to ride the pine). So if you are expecting changes up front, seems highly unlikely it will be for 2019 (except for right guard).
March 29th, 2019 at 7:35 am
The only fair way to look at this is by comparing the same number of starts between the two. It’s not fair to Peyton to do otherwise, because he wasn’t given the same opportunities.
Peyton has only been in the league three years, and the Bucs had starters ahead of him on the depth chart for his first two years, whereas Howard has been starting since he entered the league.
Since entering the league, Peyton has started 21 of 48 games. Howard has started 44 of 48 games. So to compare their entire careers is vastly biased toward the one with the most starts.
However, since Peyton has 21 starts, let’s use the last 21 starts for Howard too, although Howard still has the benefit of experience and better oline.
A quick glance and the two still are not close. I’m on my tablet and so I can’t really dig in right now, but I still think this is a stretch for Joe to make in order to prove his point.
That said? I don’t really care.
Louis L’Amour once said, “What’s the point of worrying over something we cannot change? Seems like a waste of energy and time to me.”
These people who are complaining that another team got a deal they feel the Bucs should have gotten are being silly. Who cares?
If Bruce Arians is right, Peyton Barber will be great. There’s no point in heckling Licht, because he’s been effectively neutered. He isn’t permitted to make a move unless Arians approves it, so Licht is the wrong one to place blame on.
If you all believe Arians is supposed to be this genius…then trust the process. Stop crying over spilled milk.
So far as the salary cap, Jason Licht has handled it fine up until now. This is the first season since he came here that it has been an issue, and technically, the only reason there is an issue at all is because we need to keep good players.
Remember, there may not even be a cap issue. Currently, there is no salary cap…and there won’t be until the start of the season. The Bucs can clear up plenty of space before then.
The smart thing to do is to wait until after the draft to have a fuller picture of what they have to work with.
The cap is not affecting this team at this point.
Now, I realize many of you want to point to the one year deals being made in free agency and claim they are proof of cap issues. Are they really though?
Or are they proof that Bruce Arians isn’t going to give a player money unless he proves himself? Otherwise, he’ll build through the draft.
The one year deals are not about the cap, they are about accountability.
March 29th, 2019 at 7:37 am
My question into why we didn’t go get Howard is if Barber gets hurt then what? Ellington yea right! Lol.
March 29th, 2019 at 7:39 am
@admin
Bucs did not ‘re up’ Dotson. They excercised a one year option for 2019, essentially turning him into a bridge player.
March 29th, 2019 at 7:39 am
Ndog- Who you mad at bro?! Milk is the liquid of choice for those Cheerios! Just sayin’!
March 29th, 2019 at 7:40 am
Are you trying to say the Bucs need to add to their salary cap problem by trading for a guy who averaged four inches a carry more than Peyton Barber the past two seasons???
March 29th, 2019 at 7:41 am
That’s exactly what “re-up” means. smh
What you are arguing is like saying, “The grass is not green! It’s chartreuse!”
March 29th, 2019 at 7:42 am
Im tired and 87 is right,
Shaun Wilson, Ronald Jones and the draft. Ellington may not even make the final roster.
For all we know, Arians has a second round pick he wants to spend on RB.
March 29th, 2019 at 7:43 am
Admin, re up means a new contract. The option was part of the old contract.
Splitting hairs, I suppose.
March 29th, 2019 at 7:44 am
And grass is sage.
😉
March 29th, 2019 at 7:46 am
Can we get Ira to weigh in on this? The man knows ‘sage’!
March 29th, 2019 at 7:50 am
What is Joe missing here??? The Bucs are in salary cap hell now. But you want Licht to go add $2 million they cannot afford on a running back who averages — averages — four inches more a carry and two feet more per catch.
If you are going to paint yourself into a corner more on the salary cap, shouldn’t a GM at least try to upgrade the position and not add a guy who averages virtually the exact same production per play???
Help Joe out here. What is he missing? Seriously. It’s not like we’re talking about trading for Ezekiel Elliott here. Howard played on a significantly better team and produced almost identical numbers as Peyton Barber (on average) the past two seasons.
Help Joe out here. What exactly is he missing and how should the GM get himself into more hot water by fouling up the salary cap even worse than what it currently is for a guy that wasn’t even worth a fifth-round pick — a worthless fifth-round pick!
Please go into great detail because Joe seriously does not see it in any way looking at the black and white numbers that anyone can see how Howard is worth both the cost and the hassle.
March 29th, 2019 at 7:51 am
Stick with journalism, Joe. Leave manipulation of hard numerical based facts to the politicians. As you can see few posters on this site bought it. Might have been good to pass on this guy but not for the reasons you gave.
March 29th, 2019 at 7:56 am
You really believe this Howard is an upgrade over Peyton Barber??? LOL Why did the Bears give him away?
If you believe the Bucs should cut Barber over Howard, that’s a different argument. He’s not an upgrade, sorry, spin away. He just isn’t. If the Bucs were not in salary cap hell, this wouldn’t even be an issue. But if Licht wants to dig himself into a hole even more financially, at least upgrade the position.
March 29th, 2019 at 7:57 am
Precisely Bonzai (Miles Sanders) and when he does spend second round capitol on a rb I’m snappin on every mofo comes on here and complains about it.
March 29th, 2019 at 8:02 am
34 yds longest run.
34 yds longest catch.
Yeah, that’s pretty much the ceiling for Barber.
Glad he is in Tampa because apparently the roof is not on fire.
March 29th, 2019 at 8:03 am
🙏🏾Thank you for this one Joe ooohh you set these numbskulls up up so decently. He told you stooges what the falcons owner mentioned to Ira. First thing they privately worked out was RBs and you lames come here and complain about not getting of all players Jordan Howard??? Huh? BA will draft a RB his system requires one with a little sauce than Peyton but Peyton will be a major fact because of his doglike nature BA love that ish. But watch your comments draft night I’ll be waiting.
March 29th, 2019 at 8:06 am
We have a Penn State LT,a Penn State DE,Penn State WR and the first player they workout privately just so happen to be a Penn State RB. Put it together you dumb@$$’s.
March 29th, 2019 at 8:11 am
Y’all like some free agency whores any one will do for y’all.
March 29th, 2019 at 8:20 am
Howard did not play on a better team than the bucs the past 3 years, the bucs were basically identical to the bears 3 years ago, Howard’s rookie year, HOWEVER. the bears have a significantly better GM that had a plan and implemented that plan in the past 3 years to get the Bears to be a super bowl contender with a 2nd year qb and that stud RB. The bucs are all alone in the bottom of a hole that keeps getting deeper
March 29th, 2019 at 8:29 am
LOL guys Howard is a decent back.. Barber is also a decent back… They have very similar skill sets. There are a lot of things to get on with Licht but this was not one of them… As for people complaining about comparing Howards only last 3 years the reason why you do that is because Barber has only been a starter 1 year and in league 3. It provides an apples to apples comparison of Barber/Howard… Personally, IDC what Howard did years ago its what has he done right now and right now he’s as good as Barber but got more carries. Logically by looking at the numbers one could conclude that if Barber got more carries he also would have nearly been a 1000 yard back… Barber didn’t call the plays our beloved Monken did. Monken chose to barely run the ball. Howard was in a split backfield and still got 250 carries. Barber was our lead guy and got just 234. Circumstances did not help but it is what it is.
March 29th, 2019 at 8:31 am
I think Jordan Howard is overrated (so do the Bears apparently) but he is a better running back than Peyton Barber.
March 29th, 2019 at 8:42 am
Howard and Barber are the same? I didn’t realize how bad Howard was.
March 29th, 2019 at 9:04 am
Agree with Kobe lol
March 29th, 2019 at 9:23 am
sorry but i disagree joe….
howard is better than barber and it aint even close…..and its not like he’s making 7.5mil a year….he’s making the same as barber….
send gholston packing and sign howard….he and barber could rotate or at the very least one of them could be good depth in case of injury….barber goes down and where looking at rojo, shaun wilson, ellington and maybe a rookie…..thats scary…..
#REALISTKNOWSNOTHING!!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!!
March 29th, 2019 at 9:24 am
They both are garbage Howard and barber…
3-13
March 29th, 2019 at 9:28 am
Joe you said Howard played for a much better team.. Barber played for the number 1 offense in the NFL. Chicago offense was near bottom 10 in almost every category. and Howard is a 1000+ yard back 2 out of his 3 seasons. And hes got more burst than Barber. I dont think Howard is elite but suggesting Barber is the same.. cmon man. If you want to Cherry pick a stat here or there using Howards worst year (due to a variety of factors in 2018), then why dont you compare Doug Martin 2018 ypc, who’s complete garbage according to numerous JBF articles and podcasts, to Barbers 2018 ypc. Reasons why Howard had a down year in 2018: because as mentioned earlier, Bears offense sucked with no receiving weapons and a short game QB. Howard had emerged as a top player in his previous 2 years thus he was the threat to stop. Nagy being a good coach, opted to use Tarik Cohen’s skill set instead, one of the best receiving backs in the NFL, adding a lot more versatility to the offense. This was similar to Chubb and Michel their last year in georgia against good teams. If Chubb was in a good team sells out against the run. Michel’s in and then the defense played more reactionary instead of preemptively.
March 29th, 2019 at 9:31 am
Keep building through the draft. The Jordan Howard’s of the world are not going to put you over the hump. The Tarik Cohen’s of the world is where the NFL is going. Find a Tarik Cohen and forget about Jordan Howard. The winning NFL is about speed and mismatches not plodders.
March 29th, 2019 at 10:08 am
RB isn’t going to make or break the Bucs this year. QB, O-line & D-line will. Tbd……
March 29th, 2019 at 10:41 am
Well said Joe. This was obvious for lots of fans
March 29th, 2019 at 11:00 am
With a better more fluid OL, Barber will do much better
March 29th, 2019 at 11:26 am
The average yards per attempt tell the story Joe is tying to make here. . . they are similar backs
And for anyone who has been following this team to say the Cap is not affecting the team?????
Thats a wow moment for sure!!!
Not sure how anyone could say something that dumb unless there is beer involved.
March 29th, 2019 at 11:55 am
In no way are Howard and Barber complimentary backs. They do pretty much the same thing. Only argument that could be made would be to cut Barber then trade that fifth rounder, likely a Guard or Line backer (this is where high value in the draft at these positions). Finally the Bucs are trying to assemble a team of complimentary pieces versus just finding players that put up stats.
Arians loves Barber, he sees something special. Arians wouldn’t put up with it if he didn’t see it.
March 29th, 2019 at 12:33 pm
Howard had way more attempts ppl because Dirk didn’t run as much usually cuz we fell behind if barber had Howard’s Carrie’s head have same stats if not more. How bout we give Arians a chance. Let’s see what he does with our players I guarantee it will be better than what the last staff did especially defense (hard to get worse) n offensively Arians<Dirk 🤷♂️
March 29th, 2019 at 12:57 pm
I’d rather we pursue Leonard Fournette. Sounds like the Jags might be listening.
March 29th, 2019 at 3:08 pm
Howard ran for over 1100 yds his first two seasons. Wasn’t till last year when Nagy phases him out that he started to drop off
March 29th, 2019 at 4:44 pm
Tmax are you ok bro. No insults or bashing of the great organization called Bucs. Dam was hoping to read something hilarious in tru from you. You must be hungover or something
March 29th, 2019 at 5:10 pm
So the 800 yard difference and Howard having double the amount of Touchdowns is a meaningless stat. The PR mouthpiece of the Bucs has spoken. Let it be so
March 29th, 2019 at 8:44 pm
Blah, blah, blah….all you people are stupid!
Blah,blah, blah…..only I understand football!
Blah, blah, blah….everybody else is an idiot!
Blah, blah, blah….team work! Blah, blah,blah!
March 29th, 2019 at 9:44 pm
Bonzai I get what you are saying but I feel we keep passing on sure hitter RBs and always think we have the guy. It always backfires on us. Why not grab someone for pennies who is young and has already put up decent numbers for a 6. To me it was a no brainer. Oh well who’s next?