Thin Shopping At Corner
February 6th, 2019
Bucs GM Jason Licht.
This prodded Joe to do some research and it depressed him.
Yesterday, a couple of Bucs fans Twittered Joe about how the Dixie Chicks cut starting cornerback Robert Alford. With the Bucs perpetually thin at that position no matter how many high draft picks they spend on corners (except for nickel corners — the Bucs seem to do a damn fine job of spending high draft picks on part-time corners), Alford intrigued Joe.
Until Joe did some research.
Alford is slipping, which is why the Dixie Chicks let the former second-round pick go.
Joe has been adamant the Bucs need an edge rusher more than a corner in the first round. Edge rusher is the kryptonite of quarterbacks and a good edge rush can always make average corners look better (but there isn’t a coach alive, not even Bill Belicheat, who can hide a bad corner with no pass rush).
Besides, as Joe has already pointed out, the Bucs have spent enough high draft picks on corners the past three years (a first-round pick and two second-round picks) so it’s time to address other needs. If the Bucs need a corner, go buy one.
Well, looking at corners expected to hit the market when the free agency dinner bell rings on March 13, the crop appears grim.
Kevin Seifert of BSPN typed a top-50 free agent list and the highest ranked corner (not a slot corner) is a Chiefs corner. You know, one of the worst defenses in the NFL?
However, there are a few edge rushers that may get to free agency. Joe has been on board for a strategy that includes signing Chiefs 13-sack end Dee Ford (and someone teach him how to not line up offsides), then draft this defensive tackle out of Alabama that people seem to have an erection over, this Quinnen Williams with the No. 5 pick.
With Ford, Vita Vea, Williams and Jason Pierre-Paul on your front line, that’s a damn good start.
As for corners, well, the Bucs might have to take a deep breath and hope new corners coach Kevin Ross has some magic in him.
February 6th, 2019 at 5:16 am
Excellent thoughts Joe–think you are on to something here.
February 6th, 2019 at 5:52 am
When it comes to evaluation of DB’s, the Bucs have probably not evaluated Vh3 or M J Stewart well enough. We can no longer afford to miss on so many high draft picks . If we do not make changes to the scouting department, then maybe we should enlist the help of an outside scouting/evaluation service.
February 6th, 2019 at 5:57 am
Hopefully MJ Stewart was slowed down last year by his foot injury.
Or maybe Licht is just a retard that drafted a 4.56 corner over Donte ajackson a 4.3 CB.
Perry Nickerson, the CB from Tulane that Todd Bowles drafted in the 6th round is a 4.3 CB that is now the #3 CB for the Jets!
4.4 or less from now on!!!
February 6th, 2019 at 6:16 am
Our corners have only been as bad as the coaching they have been recieving. Continuing to improve the pass rush and playing press coverage more often , attacking the oponents not waiting for them. This will all help out the numbers of the corners we already have. Mike and Lovie Smiths were the worst defensive coaches in the league at the time of their employment with the Buccaneers.
Pathetic
February 6th, 2019 at 6:56 am
The need for speed on defense is can’t be understated. The big,fast.and physical receivers can often beat press coverage and leave slower corners trailing the play
and requiring safety help that may or may not be there. Its not all coaching, the players have to have the right skillset to succeed. Scouting staff needs to take a
harder look at incoming draftees measurables. Speed , height and tackling ability
need to be evaluated better.
February 6th, 2019 at 7:23 am
Sure…the @Joes don’t use the Rotoworld Free Agent Tracker compiled by the great Evan Silva over there which is far more comprehensive (that this guy has been repeatedly mentioning on JBF since Jan. 23rd)…neah, let’s roll with an ESPN dude this Kevin Seifert person. Sure. Those mentions were seen on here for sure.
Anyway, on the Rotoworld tracker, there are 42 CB’s listed as of now, with the “KC one” Steven Nelson actually ranked 5th best abailable CB. Pierre Desir at 6’1 190lbs with the Colts who came on strong in the secondary in 2nd half of year, and Bradley Roby with the Broncos, both age 25 and 26, are both rated higher as FA’s…assuming they actually get to the market. Which…brings us to..
Dee Ford, as many have said on here wisely including me, is NOT getting to the market, cuz the Chiefs are releasing Justin Houston this offseason, and will at minimum apply the tag to Ford, and negotiate till July 15th deadline and keep Ford.
February 6th, 2019 at 7:26 am
Dee Ford would be nice. These corners here are not as bad as theyve been under Sitback. We are talking about the worst Bucs defense of all time. Yes we know thats saying something. SitbackSmittys D was supposed to make teams drive the length of the field in hopes of turnovers. As we saw that doesnt work anymore. Besides they gave up the most explosive plays in the league in the D designed not to. What a design. Anyway enough of Smitty. Bowles makes things happen. He knows first and foremost youve gota get the qb off his spot. He will send as many as it takes to. Corners wil not be covering 4 seconds a pop anymore. Everyone will be better.
February 6th, 2019 at 7:26 am
I think with better coaching we might have something special with C Davis and MJ Stewart. Hargraves I don’t have no confidence in
February 6th, 2019 at 7:31 am
@Joe … “it’s time to address other needs and if the Bucs need a corner, go buy one.” Agree we shouldn’t draft one (at least high) Joe, and that free agency (at the moment) doesn’t look too enticing. BUT … there’s always TRADING for one. If the Bucs are gonna cut some players anyways (to make salary CAP space), trading early-on to fill another NEED (like veteran CB) may be a viable alternative.
February 6th, 2019 at 7:41 am
72 percent completion rate against our Defense, and we don’t need a corner? Okay, makes sense. That was only the highest mark in the NFL.We also gave up 36 passing TDs second worst. I dont see enough athleticism at the corner spot. I’m hoping Hargreaves can bounce back.
February 6th, 2019 at 7:54 am
Yah. Who knows how good Hargreaves , mj Stewart and Carlton Davis really are with the coaching they got here. Although they still need to draft one and sign free agents dB.
They need oline and Dline with 1 and 2 rounds unless they can move back , pick up extra draft pick and take linebacker devin white from LSU.
Quinine Williams will not be there. No way in hell. That kid is a stud. He will go early.
February 6th, 2019 at 7:54 am
I agree with staying away from corner high in the draft……..we should bolster our lines with our top draft picks…..
February 6th, 2019 at 8:13 am
Doubt Williams will be available when we pick, but there are plenty of elite DTs and DEs atop this draft, so whatever you keep/sign on the D line prior to the draft, pick best lineman available at No. 5. I agree with your premise, Joe, but would do back flips if Q. Willians slips to No. 5. With a much better coaching staff, sign the Honey Badger to stabilize the back end and the young guys will be fine, as long as the D line is anything like what we are describing here.
February 6th, 2019 at 8:21 am
Justafan — When you have time in the pocket you can pick anyone apart. The longer the QB has the ball the more likely coverage on the back end will break down. Coverage and QB rush come hand in hand but the rush needs to be more than just JPP. Not to mention McCoy and JPP aren’t getting any younger. We need to start building through the trenches for once.
February 6th, 2019 at 8:38 am
We are gonna have to make a trade for a corner. If I’m Jason TEs are valuable in this league. Cameron Brate has a great contract for his production to point. Maybe try to trade Brate to a team with a hole at TE? Or trade Brate clear up the 7mil and use that draft pick to make another trade? Idk we need one more corner. If MJ Stewart is 4 in the lineup I’ll sleep at night. Vernon at 3 is sketchy…. Carlton shows promise. He has passion too. We should also sign honey badger- and maybe that along with dee ford, Williams from bama- could help escalate the ply of the corners.
First thing first we need to get rid of desean, William Gholston, Vinny Curry, beau allen and maybe trade McCoy. That will give us plenty cap room. We still have to franchise Donovan smith cause there’s no tackle worth taking at 5. There’s a couple solid RTs we could trade up for at the end of the first. Giving us a option next year.
February 6th, 2019 at 8:46 am
sign frank clark not dee ford….draft ed oliver….restructure GMC….
JPP/VV/EO/FC
#REALISTKNOWSNOTHING!!!!…GO BUCS!!!!
February 6th, 2019 at 8:50 am
“We have to keep on filling and replacing the same posistion year after year thru the draft and FAs….
Truely what kind of naked pictures of the Glazer boys does the Teflon Gump have?”
Kobe Faker
February 6th, 2019 at 9:10 am
Dee Ford will not leave Chiefs. He said he wants to stay.
February 6th, 2019 at 9:11 am
When we drafted Hargreaves we could’ve waited and drafted kendall fuller in the 3rd round. Ive always wanted em… We could’ve gotten the value and used the 1st round pick on an interior offensive lineman in that draft instead we wasted it & now years later were paying for it… Bucs need to learn to make the right decision the 1st time.. remember fans were screaming we need a running back? fans wanted dalvin but I don’t care if we had gale sayers back there lol until we fix the real problem which is the offensive line the trend will stick…
February 6th, 2019 at 9:18 am
I agree Teach, speed kills and can’t be taught.
February 6th, 2019 at 9:48 am
You either have it or you don’t.
February 6th, 2019 at 9:54 am
The reason the Bucs were willing to draft 4.56 corners is because of the defense we ran. You don’t need top end speed when your corners are playing 12 yards off the line of scrimmage. At that point, you are hoping to corral the receiver that caught the ball with 3 or 4 defenders to make the tackle. Our problem was the system. Not only were our corners slow, but they were always out of position. They didn’t know what zones they were covering, which led to fast receivers running away from our slow corners. We were out of position on most plays this year. We draft press corners and force them to play deep zone. We took away their skillset. We heard the coaching talk about creating a defense that played to our strengths, but then did the opposite. Thankfully Bowles has a history of utilizing his players skillsets and creates a defense around his players. Unlike Lovie Smith and Mike Smith.
February 6th, 2019 at 10:00 am
I agree with Joe, TBBF, and DR that CB is not our most pressing need and in fact we may already have guys in house that can work out.
First off the two things we all agree about…as Joe points out the best pass defense is not the corners it’s a great DL that puts the QB on his butt or at minimum messes up his timing…forcing him to pass before he’s ready and cutting down the time the CB’s must cover.
Second…we all agree the coaching can’t get any worse…as Joe points out we’ve never really developed these CB’s.
Here’s a reality check before we throw Licht under the bus. When he drafted those two CB’s high I do not believe the plan was to start them from the beginning of the season. It would have been nice to have some time to coach them up and let them get “acclimated” (I like JW’s description). I’m not sold on Stewart unless as teacherman said Stewart’s foot bothered him severely. But I thought Davis made some great steps after slowly getting used to the NFL game and speed.
Remember last season…we lost TWO starters from the beginning and were forced to throw rookies into the fire with a mediocre pass rush…take away JPP and it was a weak rush.
Continue to improve the DL and the DB’s will improve with them. They all now have some experience and we hope they’ll get coached better in Bowles defense.
I’m optimistic…but of course that’s just who I am. LMAO
February 6th, 2019 at 10:03 am
@bigmackattack
We are the Florida Buccaneers!
Florida produces some of the fastest hunans in the wirld!
We need to draft SEC Speed!
Year after year!
We used to have the fastest defense in the NFL!
Stick with SEC players until the end of team!
You guys know another reason why D-Jax doesnt vibe with our Dirty South Squad?
Because hes from LA! Alabama boys and Georgia are different than LA guys!
Stick with Southern Souls!
Southern Speed!!!
February 6th, 2019 at 10:30 am
We need a good, big CB in FA. These guys listed as top CB in FA are good, can be taught to be better, and won’t cost $10 mill a year. We need to get some more second and third round picks some how and stack the trenches. Round 3: DE Charles Omenihu (Texas) could be a steal. Dude’s a beast. 9.5 sacks in 2018 and Big XII Defensive Lineman of the Year.
February 6th, 2019 at 10:42 am
Bucs Corners will play better in a scheme designed for them.
VHIII and Carlton, and even stewart are all man-press corners but M.Smith refused to play them that way.
I think we will see a much more capable secondary
February 6th, 2019 at 10:53 am
DK
“We still have to franchise Donovan smith cause there’s no tackle worth taking at 5. There’s a couple solid RTs we could trade up for at the end of the first. Giving us a option next year.”
We don’t have to take a LT at #5 or trade back into the first. Unless you’re extremely talented OL never go in the first. They go 2nd and 3rd round, and the second round is projected to be stacked with good OL. We need an extra second round pick, get OG and LT and a RT in the third. Also have Leidtke and Wester. I would be pissed if they tagged him a bunch of money.
February 6th, 2019 at 10:54 am
*”I would be pissed if they tagged him a bunch of money.”
I would be pissed if they tagged him or gave him a bunch of money to resign.
February 6th, 2019 at 11:10 am
Sign Hunt and Landon Collins
February 6th, 2019 at 11:12 am
Trade a #2 for Ramsey
February 6th, 2019 at 12:05 pm
Would rather spend big on S with Collins. Sign some vet CB that is good value vs spending a premium on guys like Roby/Desir IMO.
All I know is no matter who our CBs have been, they have looked really good when we can pressure the QB, and really bad when playing off coverage and not pressuring the QB.
It literally has not mattered which name at CB we put in the game it seems. That has never been the difference maker. It’s always been the D-line / aggressive pressure. At least visually to me.
Our LBs were bigger liabilities than CBs a lot of the time last year. Mostly because they had LBs/CBs sitting in exploitable zones where we looked confused as f*ck.
February 6th, 2019 at 1:52 pm
Between joe talking about erections and Kobe faker talking about naked pictures of the Glazers thought I had stumbled onto the wrong site. Oh that’s right, post Super Bowl / Pre-draft….It’s a Bucs Life.
February 6th, 2019 at 3:45 pm
This is literally why last offseason myself, and people who aren’t morons, were saying go and trade for Talib. He’s not a long term answer but can get you by while you draft young guys and develop them. Talib taking on the #1 WRs while Grimes could cover guys in his pay grade, seems like a good combo. Old? Yes. But the team needed to win now or the entire coaching staff was out the door, that’s what was said.
Gee, I wonder what happened.
February 6th, 2019 at 7:52 pm
Sign the Honey Badger to play Strong Safety. Justin Evans is a Free Safety with good experience and great speed. He just needs some coaching from the new Safety Coach in proper angles and tackling techniques. Then make Stewart a backup Strong Safety and Adams the backup Free Safety and Coach Stewart up—he can hit and tackle just fine and has as much speed as our greatest CB of all time who played well at Safety late in his career. Then convert Whitehead with his great speed and hard hitting ability to play CB along with Davis. Whitehead is strong enough to jam at the line of scrimmage and can keep up with the WRs. He is short but so was Grimes who was a great CB for years when he was younger. Hargraves does fine as a Slot Corner.
February 7th, 2019 at 12:58 am
Use your key picks on the trenches. We need a first pick LT, after moving down, and then a top Defensive Tackle (hope Oliver) with the Other first pick, then DE Omenihu from Texas in the second round, the best OG in the third round and DT Khalen Saunders from Western Illinois with the second third pick from the Jackson trade, and RB Snell, Jr., or Pollard, or Armsted in the fourth, Iman Marshall CB 6’1” (fast, playmaker, instinctual, and can play man) in the fifth round, and a FB/TE from the Senior Bowl in the seventh round.