Players Win Games
December 13th, 2018
Good defense doesn’t need takeaways.
Most football coaches would go nuts reading the following, but Joe is adamant about it.
Ever notice it is only losing coaches who complain their team doesn’t get enough takeaways? You never heard a peep from Bucs Bit-O-Honey-snacking, Ozark-watching, yams-eating coach Dirk Koetter about takeaways until the Bucs started losing.
Only until then did Koetter grouse about not getting enough takeaways — never mind his defense (at the end of the day, the defense falls on Koetter’s desk) stunk out loud until a move was made to remove defensive coordinator Mike Smith.
Joe always maintained a punt is a takeaway too, and to kvetch that a team isn’t getting enough fluke plays (that’s what turnovers are, flukes) is dangerous if not irresponsible and very likely masks a deeper issue.
Lovie Smith drove Joe crazy about this.
Again, punts are takeaways.
In the post-Chucky era there is no consistent correlation between the Bucs having a bunch of takeaways and winning games.
In 2010, when the Bucs won 10 games, the Bucs were eighth in the NFL in takeaways (28). In 2013, the Bucs won four games but were fourth in the NFL in takeaways (31). In 2016, the Bucs won nine games and were 15th in the NFL in takeaways (29).
Well today, Koetter spoke about Baltimore’s defense, which is second in the NFL in yards allowed per game (294) and marveled how the good the Crows are — a half-game out of first place in the AFC North despite having so few takeaways (23rd in the NFL).
Want to know why that is? Koetter basically said so in the same press conference: They have so many good players on defense.
Winning teams don’t rely on flukes to win. Get an offense off the field before it can score and — voila! — you give yourself a chance to win.
You know what is consistent? Playing sound defense. Good tackling. Covering receivers. Pressuring the quarterback. Forcing teams to punt.
Do takeaways help? Sure. But you certainly cannot rely on them.
Joe will simply repeat: punts are takeaways too.
December 13th, 2018 at 7:14 pm
Joe is going to have to take up Tai Chi when Koetter returns as HC for 2019….
December 13th, 2018 at 7:28 pm
Well sir when you pay a guy 16 mil a year to play patti-cake with guards and centers this is the result. Vita Vea is invisible on the field even though he’s big as a house and there’s zero depth behind McIceCream and stay-puft. If not for JPP and Nassib of all people we’d be even worse. There are simply not enough dogs on this defensive roster.
Outside of JPP, LVD and Whitehead we got no dawgs. Davis got skills but lacks something same with Evans.
As for Kwon, all I know is he’s not a real mlb. He looks like a safety to me but wtfdik. He could be our Can Chancellor but nooooo.
Curry, Unrein and Allen were a total waste of money which was obvious if you spent anytime watching the eagles last yr.
JPP came here and showed everyone what you can accomplish when you got heart and pride. Unfortunately not enough players have it especially not the “leader” of the defense.
December 13th, 2018 at 7:37 pm
Agree that an offense should not rely on turnovers,but call it what you will. A turnover is the usually a very good play by somebody on defense. It takes preparation and being in position to make a play. It stops a drive equally as well as a punt and often sets up the offense for an easy score.
December 13th, 2018 at 7:37 pm
DB555 you left out Jamyth
December 13th, 2018 at 8:01 pm
Every single team in the NFL is loaded with good players and talent. The difference is coaching, which leads to team philosophy, scheme, game planning and management, teaching,
and overall attitude of the team.
A professional and experienced GM is a must. He must build the roster and get the coaches the players that they need.
The Bucs have failed on many of these levels. You are what your record says you are. Jason Licht, Dirk Koetter and Jameis Winston all have losing records. Ray Jay has less fans every home game, and that’s even with the Bucs giving away free tickets and upgrades, how embarrassing is that? The team appears to be moving backwards instead of forward.
Glazers really need to make wholesale changes to get the most out of the good players that they do have. And save what is left of the fan base
December 13th, 2018 at 9:40 pm
Bucs song for this season,
I tried so hard
And got so far
But in the end
It doesn’t really matter
Bye Dirk, Bye Licht.
Next year can’t get here soon enough.
December 13th, 2018 at 10:27 pm
Watching the Thursday night game and Derwin James. Whether vea is good or not we sure needed a safety and all that talk about picking a safety that high in the draft by fans who know nothing about drafting just sounds ignorant in a passing league and considering the free agent lineman we picked up. Licht dropped the ball by not trying to replace Geraldine with a d line pick. We got a space eater who doesn’t take up much space. I’m hoping Eva turns out to be a major steal but not because I want Licht to keep his job
December 13th, 2018 at 11:13 pm
The Winston haters have told all of us how you win games. You can’t ever turn the ball over, if you just win that stat on the stat sheet, then the outcome of the game is secondary. Take 50 knees for -80 yards on the day, well you win so long as you don’t turn it over. The other team scores more points than you? So what, did you turn it over, no, then you win the game.
Turnovers are everything, the Winston haters told me that, it’s literally the only thing in football that matters, the only thing.
December 13th, 2018 at 11:31 pm
Wow, what a great ending in this Thursday night game.
Hot damn.
The Chargers, a loser organization that would lose every single close game with a QB everyone said was a turnover machine that couldn’t get it done – they get a new head coach and two year laters they’re one of, if not THE, best team in football.
Amazing the difference having a competent coach makes.
December 13th, 2018 at 11:33 pm
Don’t forget Rod, Rivers threw two picks tonight so there is no way they actually won.
December 13th, 2018 at 11:51 pm
Ndog – Wow… I didn’t know, I only got a chance to see the last 10 mins of the game or so.
Anyways that big play at the end, it was all for not I guess, he turned the ball over TWICE!!!!!!!!!!!!! TWICE!!!!!!!!!!!!…. and as we know, it’s not about winning or losing, it’s about having a clean box score in the INT column. The KC fans I’m sure feel great about winning the TO column, because that’s what matters.
December 13th, 2018 at 11:59 pm
Andy Reid is an offensive genius. He takes Damian Williams and turns him into Kareem Hunt. Notice how the great offensive coaches scheme their RB’s.
Andy Reid’s running backs.
Brian Westbrook
LeSean McCoy
Jamaal Charles
Kareem Hunt
I won’t mention Koetter’s running backs. I think he had MJD at one time.
December 14th, 2018 at 12:16 am
I don’t understand Joe’s beef about Koetter’s statement when he said the Crows have great players on defense. I agree, the Crows have some pretty damn good talent on defense. #2 yards allowed? I hope they don’t plan on being inspired by this revelation and force a crap load of turnovers to prove a point. What would be the over/under on Jameis turnovers? Anyone want to share a guess?
December 14th, 2018 at 12:38 am
I don’t know Jean, what’s the over under on how many times he is pressured? Over half his attempts again?
The Bucs Oline always plays like trash vs 3-4 defenses. This game should be no different. Hopefully Jameis is healthy enough to avoid the constant pressure like he was doing in the first half last week.
December 14th, 2018 at 3:48 am
Rod Munch is spot on! Both LA teams showed what a difference a coach makes. You need more evidence? Look at the Browns. The intermin coach get 3 Dubs in 5 games, Hue needed 40 games to get 3.
December 14th, 2018 at 4:40 am
Joe, you’re cherry-picking once again. Turnovers forced by the defense matter. They stop a drive AND often result in giving our offense excellent field position (occasionally … as in a Pick Six … they result in us picking up some much-needed extra points). And I agree with you about punts … 3rd down efficiency (stops by our defense) tells you a LOT (and usually coincides with us having a better time-of-possession from what I’ve seen).
But what you conveniently leave out (Paul Harvey’s ‘And now for the rest of the story’?) is that GIVEAWAYS by our offense are just as damning to the outcome of the game. And that’d be not just those times when our offense fumbles the ball or when our QB throws an INT (yes, some of which also result in Pick-Sixes whose points count against our defense not against our offense) … but it also includes those times when OUR offense stumbles on 3rd down & has to punt.
And Rod, you kinda go overboard IMO with this ‘Jameis-hater’ bit in trying to prove some point (about ‘competent coaching’ I think). And statements on your part like “Turnovers are everything, the Winston haters told me that, it’s literally the only thing in football that matters, the only thing” are quite absurd. No one’s every said that I’ve read (even on JBF.com). Exaggerating to make a point is just that … EXAGGERATION. Turnovers by our offense (more specifically GIVEAWAYS) are important, and do in fact affect the outcome of games. The TURNOVER DIFFERENTIAL is what usually tells the story though …
December 14th, 2018 at 10:18 am
AleteredEgo Says:
“DB555 you left out Jamyth”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You misspelled your name today, Altered. 😉
December 14th, 2018 at 10:28 am
^ So many eloquent points, Defense Rules. – I do feel that the Jameis detractors tend to oversell the Interception factor sometimes. – He has 8 TD’s and 2 INT’s in his last 4 games, and a QB rating of 114 or better in 3 of those games.
Also, the Atlanta game, he had 395 yards and 4 TD’s with a 114+ QB rating, but everyone wanted to talk about the 2 picks.
He obviously still has room to go, but I think there is a hell of a lot of upside here and the best is yet to come.
December 15th, 2018 at 2:41 am
Defense Rules – I was actually mocking the Jameis hating idiots who constantly exaggerate turnovers and pretend no matter what good is done, no matter if the defense gives up 45 points, if you throw for 600 yards and 5 TDs and and 1 INT and lose on the kicker missing an XP – well, the loss is because the QB is garbage because they turned it over once.