“I Think The Players Gave Up On Koetter”
November 20th, 2018
Daggers are being thrown at Dirk Koetter from all angles — and they’re getting sharper.
Two weeks ago, former Bucs defensive tackle Chris Hovan said Tampa Bay defensive players don’t believe in their system and Vita Vea is not a pass rusher and Bucs coaches should embrace it.
Ok, who could have argued with that?
Today, Hovan took his critique a giant step further. Intelligent Bucs fans heard him with Rock Riley on 1040 AM, the best sports radio show weekday afternoons in the Bay area. Hovan is an occasional guest and you could hear the passion and disgust in his voice.
Hovan sees a 2018 Bucs team that has a whole lot of quit in it.
“When the passion isn’t there, that starts at the top,” Hovan said.
“I think the players gave up on [Dirk] Koetter.”
There was plenty of chatter from Hovan about him just not seeing a hungry team on the field, especially on defense.
Hovan said he wasn’t going to name names, but then he kind of did when nudged by Riley.
Riley said Jason Pierre-Paul is playing well, and Hovan replied enthusiastically, “9 1/2 sacks.”
Then Riley suggested Gerald McCoy was having a decent season to which Hovan replied, “No, dude. C’mon, man.”
No need for Joe to pile on here with all of Hovan’s commentary, but it can be boiled down to an ex-Buc known for his intensity who is shaking his head at what he considers bad effort by too many overpaid players.
This is all rather striking since Hovan was very upbeat on the Bucs earlier this season and typically is a pro-player guy.
Hovan added that while he sees positives in Jameis Winston, he thinks the Bucs are best off moving on at quarterback with a new head coach.
November 20th, 2018 at 7:53 pm
Said it first long ago when all the Fotzmagic BS was running rampant. Check my posts. People on the inside of One Buc have known what a joke KLUELESSKOETTER is and his joke of asst coaches, his snitch of a equipment manager reporting back to him all the locker room happenings. Players hate the current culture of the entire support staff. Gotta clean untire place out.
November 20th, 2018 at 7:57 pm
You sound like an informed fan, Buddy, but I’m guessing you’re not.
November 20th, 2018 at 8:03 pm
Joe, do a Licht confidence poll. I’m curious to see what the numbers are.
Did one after free agency, post-draft, before the season and at the bye. Probably coming when there’s four games to play. –Joe
November 20th, 2018 at 8:03 pm
He’s wrong. If these players had given up on Dirk, they would not fight so hard to come back and try to win games.
It’s silly to even suggest they have given up on Dirk Koetter. It’s not one bit true. Hoven is out of touch.
November 20th, 2018 at 8:14 pm
Kissing up to Koetter won’t keep you in his good graces or launch your webpage, Petey. Players still play for “their tape” in hopes of continuing their careers. I’m not sure what is less likely…the 11-5 guarantee you gave or Koetter’s forthcoming 2 -year extension.
November 20th, 2018 at 8:18 pm
How come people aren’t calling him crazy for saying McCoy having a bad season. But when beckles says it. You have 50 people posing what an idiot he is
November 20th, 2018 at 8:18 pm
Defensive players have quit on themselves….
Offense is putting up historic stats and are at the top of the league
Koetter is not involved with the defense other than being the HC
Keep Koetter and Licht one more year
Complete defensive personal overhaul from the new DC on down
all
that said
gotta feel for defensive players these days with patty cake rules…
my NFL watching is down to Bucs games and post season which does not include Wild Card games
November 20th, 2018 at 8:18 pm
It’s time to just blow that whole defense up after the season. Outside of a few young guys in the secondary and possibly JPP there’s not one guy that I would be all that upset to see go at the end of the season. Vea may be a decent guy to keep around if they bring in a coach that finally wants to covert to a 3-4 but outside of that he’ll probably never be much more than a run stuffer that only plays on 1st and 2nd down.
November 20th, 2018 at 8:19 pm
He said said passion needs to come from the top, from the leaders.
Later he discredits McCoy having a decent season.
I’ll create my own assumption. McCoy is one on those quitters he’s talking about.
November 20th, 2018 at 8:24 pm
Bonzai…….Players on this team been caught loafing. It’s on film.
Loafing/Quitting. Same difference.
November 20th, 2018 at 8:28 pm
Koetter has to go there’s no more keeping him one more year. He seems like a good guy and I respect that he’s a straight shooter but he’s not a quality head coach. He coaches scared and too slow to make adjustments. He had the opportunity last season to make changes on his defensive staff after watching them give away several games but he chose to stay the course and hope that things would be get better. Well that was a bad gamble and now it’s time to pay for that decision along with quite a few others.
November 20th, 2018 at 8:29 pm
After the beat down in The Windy City Dirk said “everyone including myself should be fired after this one” Then after the loss at the meadowlands he says “I don’t have an answer. If I did I would fix it” Well we did not need Hovan to tell us. Of course they have. Why he’s still coaching this team is beyond comprehension. Granted the players are a professional football team but still have human minds, and this disease of a coach can infect this whole team on many levels
November 20th, 2018 at 8:31 pm
This is such nonsense.
No way they gave up and tried to fight back like they did.
And what is this utter media nonsense about giving up on Jameis with six games left in the season? why does everyone in the media have to have an immediate hot take?
Ugh – all those wasted articles and comments about how Jameis may never play another snap for the Bucs again. Now, Hovan wants them to dump Jameis and go with a new coach. Thank goodness McVay didn’t say that with Goff and Nagy didn’t say that with Trubisky. Those two looked FAAAAAAAR worse than Jameis ever has before those guys came in.
All this knee-jerk stuff is just silly. Jameis has six games to prove himself once and for all. If he does, great. If he doesn’t, then it’s settled.
Period.
November 20th, 2018 at 8:40 pm
One more thing and I’m done, you have a guy on the team that asks for a trade because he’s upset that he’s not getting the ball enough and the coach rewards him by making him a captain!!! What kind of stuff is that?
Koetter seems scared to speak out and openly discipline DJax but he’s more than happy to throw his QB under the bus. That’s not the kind of coach I’d like to see spend another season in Tampa. They need someone with a backbone that has no problem telling a guy to get his butt on the field to return punts if he’s the best punt returner on the team. Not a timid coach that says “ahhh Mr. Jackson feel free to go out and return punts anytime you feel like it sir”. That’s weak and teams tend to take on the character of their head coach which is exactly what we see with this team.
November 20th, 2018 at 8:43 pm
@Buctown check my old posts called it Longggg before problems stated to surface. When you know what’s halening, you just know what’s happening. Sorry you don’t
November 20th, 2018 at 8:59 pm
What happened?? Are they still a family or nah? I remember we was at our best and alotta family talk. What happened? We signed djx and Fitz and baker and that family talk is out of window? I
November 20th, 2018 at 9:10 pm
I hope Hovan is still clean and sober. It’s a tough fight and I wish him all the best. He’s a good guy and speaks the truth. McCoy is not a good DT. He has one or two good plays in his best games against garbage O lines. Against good O lines, he doesn’t even show up and neither does his effort.
November 20th, 2018 at 9:12 pm
I don’t think the players has quit on Koetter
I just don’t see the talent on this team
They play hard, give their all
But their all isn’t good enough
They just don’t have the talent to compete
The effort is there, but the talent isn’t there
November 20th, 2018 at 9:12 pm
Agree with Hovan.
Licht, Koetter and Winston all need to go. Period.
November 20th, 2018 at 9:14 pm
Saying Quit about a player or team are fighting words
But I remember that prime time game when deion sanders said he knows what quit looks like when he commented on the Bucs team Raheem Morris was coaching.
…… And that defense wasn’t near as bad as the one for 2018.
I cannot remember a bucs team where receivers are running so wide open and running back seem to always have holes and lanes to exploit.
So i just wonder now, why is this defense so bad???????
November 20th, 2018 at 9:18 pm
Hey Buddy, what ButTown is saying is you need to get back on your meds. When you start convincing yourself of ridiculous conspiracy theories its time to get back on the couch and make sure the presecriptions don’t need to be changed. Freaking morons all thoughout this fan base.
November 20th, 2018 at 9:27 pm
I remember when it was wrong to say that NFL players quit playing.
November 20th, 2018 at 9:32 pm
I see a lot of talent at the same positions
WR
TE
But those guys can’t be on the field at the same time
I don’t see talent at these positions, maybe subpar
RG, OT, OC, QB, DT, DE, LB, CB, SS, FS K
November 20th, 2018 at 9:40 pm
JPP, Carl Nassib, Ali Marpet, are playing good at their positions
Mike Evans, Adam Humphries, Chris Godwin, DeSean Jackson, OJ Howard, Cam Brate are talented players at their positions. But they have to rotate in an out.
The rest of the team
I don’t see any talent, they are giving their all
But they don’t have the talent
November 20th, 2018 at 9:44 pm
With the poor talent on defense, how could you tell if they quit? They are playing as well last week as in Week 1.
November 20th, 2018 at 9:45 pm
Is it lack of talent, a scheme that doesn’t play to the strength of the players or coaches that don’t know how to develop players? Name 5 players that Koetter and his crew has developed in the past 3 yrs since he took over as head coach? It’s hard to imagine all of those guys were just bad draft picks. Heck Koetter didn’t know how to use Devonta Freeman when he was in Atlanta. It wasn’t until he left that we got to see what he could do.
November 20th, 2018 at 9:50 pm
This is the same Head Coach that made Desean Jackson a Team Captain. He’s the king of quit and individuality. Koetter benches the ultimate team guy and promotes, Mr Trade ME.
November 20th, 2018 at 9:52 pm
Let’s ask ourselves, when did it seem that this team began to go through the motions and throw in the towel? I’m gonna say after the week 3 game when Jameis was supposed to return in week four. The media went apesh|t over it and caused a QB controversy that stank up the whole locker room.
November 20th, 2018 at 9:57 pm
Jean Lafitte Says:
Fitz was good in game 1-2
Then he went back to the old Fitz in game 3 against the Steelers
November 20th, 2018 at 9:58 pm
Oh no
Not after week three….
I honestly think it was that lost to the redskins that killed their spirits…….. That was their last shot at Reasonably staying alive for a playoff hunt…..
They couldn’t even beat a beat up redskins team….. Talk about demoralizing you.
November 20th, 2018 at 10:01 pm
Dirk only has 6 weeks left to figure it out…
The irony of it all is at this point the guy who got him the job (Jameis Winston) is now the only person who can save his job…imo Dirk needs a minimum of 4 wins out of these last 6 games to even have a chance at keeping his job…if we finish the season with double digit loses he’s done…
November 20th, 2018 at 10:08 pm
@Jean
Pittsburgh came into Tampa at 0-1-1 with a loss to KC and a tie against Cleveland and a very unhappy Antonio Brown who didn’t even show up to practice 1 day during that week. If the Bucs were a legit team at that point they would have been able to put the Steelers away but instead we saw FitzTragic show up in the first half and throw 3 INT’s on 3 consecutive passes and go into halftime down 30-10. Don’t try to pin it on Winston that teams started to figure out that all they have to do is take away the deep pass and force Fitz to sustain drives to stop them.
As far as week 4 in Chicago, I guess it was also the thought of Jameis coming back that caused them to look confused and lost while guys were running wheel routes and uncovered most of the game.
November 20th, 2018 at 10:16 pm
I agree with Jean
November 20th, 2018 at 10:44 pm
I also agree with Jean
November 20th, 2018 at 10:57 pm
Everyone seems to know this except the Glazers and Licht, the only ones that matter
November 20th, 2018 at 11:26 pm
No one is throwing daggers at dirk he’s just not a very good coach. Saying the team quit on dirk says more about this regime and franchise than it does anything else. I mean they keep paying above average money to below average players. Leaders who allow teammates to quit on a coach doesn’t say anything because it means the so called leaders checked out first and everyone else is following their lead.
It’s his own fault for not forcing a franchise of players comfortable with losing to fight for their jobs. It’s what he gets for depending on players the last 3 head coaches before him couldn’t even depend on. #77 is trash and plays more than Kevin pamphile did last year, if he can’t get benched why would anyone else one this team think it’s all about winning. If we can see he sucks im sure they see how bad he is when his own teammates are watching the game film with him
November 21st, 2018 at 12:18 am
Looks more like Dirk has quit on the team
No effort at game prep
No in game adjustments
Benching starters for back-ups
Naming the chief whiner “captain”
etc. etc
November 21st, 2018 at 12:24 am
GMC is no Aaron Donald.
November 21st, 2018 at 12:39 am
All Praise to Allah and The Prophet Mohammed, please inform. what is the define of the ‘Dirk Koetter’? Please in Arab I pray.
November 21st, 2018 at 1:06 am
I think the gave up on jw at one point too.
November 21st, 2018 at 7:45 am
Jonathan Lipnicki Says
“Kissing up to Koetter won’t keep you in his good graces or launch your webpage, Petey. Players still play for “their tape” in hopes of continuing their careers. I’m not sure what is less likely…the 11-5 guarantee you gave or Koetter’s forthcoming 2 -year extension.”
I kiss up to no one but my beautiful wife.
On topic though, consider this:
Last year, the offense came from behind to take the lead late in games 4 times. Each of those 4 times, the defense blew the game in the final seconds. In addition, Nick Folk, our horrible kicker, cost the Buccaneers 2 games.
We ended up going 5-11, right? But if you flip those 6 games that the defense and kicker cost us, we would have been 11-5.
So with the upgrades to the defense, and there were plenty if you objectively look at it, there was no reason why the defense could not have done well enough to win 4 additional games this year. I admit, I was being a bit optimistic in regard to the kicker.
But I did qualify my prediction by saying 11-5 unless we were hit as badly by the injury bug this season. Turned out, we were hit worse than ever by injuries. I also said that 9-7 would be the worse I would accept.
My prediction was bold. I admit that. But I will never regret an optimistic prediction for my team. Never. If you want to hate on me for believing in the team I am a fan of, go ahead. Hate away. Call me a homer if you like. But two things I’m not…a bandwagon fan or a fair weather fan. I’d rather be a homer.
As I’ve pointed out elsewhere, I’m not a football fan. I am a Buccaneers fan. Second generation, but franchise long. I’ve seen the worse times (no win season) and the best times. Know what got us through the worse times back then? Optimism. Hope. Faith.
Plenty of Buccaneers ‘fans’ have fallen away over the decades. But the faithful remain. Sure, we get frustrated. But come the following season, we all hope for the best. And I would rather do that than hope for the worse, just to let everyone know I was right in my prediction.
“Koetter’s forthcoming 2 -year extension”
That was not a prediction. That was a suggestion, and I still stand behind it. Work it like a player contract, with incentives that cancel the second year guarantee if they are not met. See what Koetter’s offense can do with a quality defense.
Koetter currently has the number one offense. Not just in yards…in total offense. The Bucs are top ten in scoring (8th). Five years ago, all of us would have sacrificed sheep to have a top offense.
You think I don’t get frustrated? The two things that frustrate me most are injuries and kicking. Reduce the issues there, and this team is as good as the Patriots. Two years in a row, injuries have decimated our defense. Last year, we had bums there, like Baker, but this year we actually had great players. They needed time to gel, which they did not get because the injuries immediately started piling up (in training camp even).
And the kicking issue is horrible.
But I don’t entirely blame Jason Licht or Dirk Koetter for the kicking problem. If you want Angus Beef in the store and all they have is store brand beef, you get what is available and try to make something good of it.
Licht tried fixing the issue many times. The kickers on the market were horrible, so he took a risk and tried to draft the best…who turned out to be a bust. So Licht invested in a proven kicker, who decided it was the perfect time to suck.
Eventually, he will find a good kicker. Until then, it’s torture until he can locate that Angus Beef.
November 21st, 2018 at 7:54 am
T REX Says
“I think the gave up on jw at one point too.”
To a point, I believe you are right where certain players are concerned. Desean Jackson NEVER believed in Jameis. He thought only of himself, which is why Jameis was forced to throw to him so much to avoid a temper tantrum.
And he was pressured to do so…by the fans, the media and the coaches. That much was obvious. And that is why stats across the board for the rest of the offense dropped.
I don’t believe the entire team gave up on Jameis…they just got tired of losing, and they needed a spark. Fitz did so well in the first two games that they had to wonder if going with him would be better for this season.
The thing is, Fitz has never been great consistently. From game 3 on, he stopped winning until finally, he started turning the ball over.
Look, Jameis is the future. As I said yesterday, Brett Favre threw just as many picks. More actually. And Favre fumbled more too. To hear Favre tell it, that never happened, but its true. It’s a matter of record.
Regardless, up until this year, Jameis was improving in all areas but two…picks and fumbles. And coincidentally, he was sacked more each year also, meaning he was under increasing pressure.
But the suspension and the accusation did something to him this year. His confidence took a big hit. I do not think he believes he was guilty, and that being the case, he would have issues as a result. But that will all be fixed if the Bucs keep him next year.
November 21st, 2018 at 7:56 am
Look, all I can add is this:
The injuries, kicking and defense are the biggest issues. Most of the injuries have been to the defense. But that will change because the defense is getting younger. These young players being forced to play are going to get better because of the added experience. It might not feel like it now, but they will.
And a change in defensive coaching is just what they need to help them through it.
November 21st, 2018 at 8:39 am
dj has a history of complaining about gimme the ball, remember keyshawn johnson… he was the same way. they were not devoted to the team they were on, and they both played for several teams. Trade him.
November 21st, 2018 at 8:41 am
dj has a history of complaining about gimme the ball, remember keyshawn johnson… he was the same way. they were not devoted to the team they were on, and they both played for several teams. Trade him.
November 21st, 2018 at 10:47 am
I think the locker room is quoting Ricky Watters “for who, for what?”
November 21st, 2018 at 4:37 pm
Disorganized corner and linebacker play, especially in passing downs. 2 defensive lineman that come to play every week. Red zone anxiety. Other than JPP, Nassib, Peyton Barber, OJ Howard, Mike Evans, Chris Godwin and sometimes Marpet/Dotson there isn’t a player on this team that you can build around. Alexander and David used to be exceptional but their productivity has been on the decline the past 2 seasons. Grimes/Jackson/McCoy/Ghoulston, Beau Allen, Vinny Curry can be replaced easily with lesser cost players that will be more productive.
And of course the coaching, not a single position coach except WR/TE coach and RB coach should be coaching this team. The offensive coordinator has been pretty good with the exception of the red zone calls. I’m very surprised that they don’t get the one-on-one matchups in the end zone and get the ball more to Evans down there, or even Brate.