“I Don’t See That”
November 2nd, 2018
America in distress.
It was weird yesterday.
Bucs offensive coordinator Todd Monken, whose resume continues to glow (especially when his former college quarterback shames a $100 million coach on national television in prime time), seemed borderline uncomfortable during his weekly press conference at One Buc Palace.
Monken is a straight shooter and some would suggest a loose cannon. He says what he thinks, which is beyond refreshing but it also bunches up the briefs of suits in the control freak world of the NFL.
Monken deflected a helluva lot of questions yesterday, mostly dealing with America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston, and Dirk Koetter’s decision to lower Old Glory to half-mast. That’s not Monken. It sure smelled like either Monken didn’t want to answer questions about Jameis being benched or he was ordered not to.
Joe got one of those responses after asking Monken what changed in Jameis from the way he was throwing the ball before his suspension until after the three-week forced vacation ended. Yes, former Bucs quarterback Jeff Carlson has stated Jameis’ mechanics are all screwed up. He’s hardly the only former football guy saying that.
Monken reacted to Joe’s question as if he wanted to play dodgeball.
“I don’t think so,” Monken responded when Joe asked if something happened to Jameis during his suspension or if his mechanics are messed up. “That’s hard to say. You would have to ask him. I don’t see that. I don’t see those things in practice where you are anticipating what we’ve seen otherwise we wouldn’t have put so much on him, offensively.”
That may be a fair point. If the Bucs expected Jameis to throw four picks, he wouldn’t be on the field unless higher-ups instructed Koetter otherwise. But c’mon, Monken wouldn’t be able to see if Jameis’ fundamentals are a mess if folks watching on TV can?
The “you have to ask him” line was telling to Joe.
Generally, any player, high school, college, pro — you name it — is not going to see many problems. Coaches will (or should). That’s why you have coaches. That’s why you video practices and games. That’s why you watch tape. That’s why every practice is recorded from various angles.
Teams don’t spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on video equipment and salaries for an entire wing of video production assistants and quality control coaches just to troll cheerleaders on Sundays.
Of course Monken knows. Either guys watching on TV are totally wrong about Jameis and don’t know what they are talking about, or Monken is covering for someone or something.
Or maybe, he doesn’t want to pile on and embarrass Jameis any further. You know, don’t knock a man when he’s down?
Monken is a great guy and a damn good coach. But his deflection of questions and somewhat clipped answers tell Joe that Monken was less than candid yesterday, which is an unusual.
November 2nd, 2018 at 12:14 pm
I don’t think it’s his mechanics I think it’s just decision making throw it to the checkdown! Jameis is big time believer in every play can be a HOmerun but that’s not the reality.
November 2nd, 2018 at 12:15 pm
CBS already has Winston gone. Their mock draft up. Bucs take Ryan Finley with the # 8 pick. So the talk has already started.
November 2nd, 2018 at 12:17 pm
They are all in JOB SAVING MODE!! Get use to less then truthful answers moving forward.
If Fitz struggles after a few games I suggest we start Ryan Griffin the remainder of the year. he has been riding the pine for a couple of years now and has looked good in preseason (LOL) so lets see what he has to offer against starters. The Niners QB last night played well in his first game. Much better then Winston ever did in my opinion.
November 2nd, 2018 at 12:18 pm
All this speculation on Jameis makes sense because he was the 1st overall pick. Its simple as heck to me… Fitz is better right now, looks better and plays better. Therefore, he gives the team the best chance. In a win now league, win now.
November 2nd, 2018 at 12:19 pm
As far as mechanics, those have never been good. Decision making hasnt been either. Jameis is a product of Jimbo Fisher
November 2nd, 2018 at 12:20 pm
He was listed a few weeks ago with a hip injury.
November 2nd, 2018 at 12:23 pm
Not buying it. If he was not making stupid decisions, no one would be talking about his mechanics. What didn’t Carlson and others point this out when he was playing well in a stretch of games? It’s easy now to jump on the band wagon and talk about his mechanics, foot work etc. bottom line is he has been playing stupid. He has to mature as a QB or he’s history. I for one would like to see him succeed. But he has to grow on and off the field.
November 2nd, 2018 at 12:24 pm
Mechanics? Brain mechanics! He doesn’t have the head for the game. I love the site and all it stands for and the wealth of info but this continued WinSTUNNED defense is downright ridiculous. Antarctica’s QB…
November 2nd, 2018 at 12:26 pm
WHY has ATrain been put in the Joe Watchlist
November 2nd, 2018 at 12:43 pm
Fitz never should have been pulled. Another bad decision by Dirk. Look at his numbers. What a shame. Chicagos d is good. A few bad throws shouldnt get ya the bench. I bet Dirk wants that one back. N yes I know it could have come from the higher ups but its gota be his call ultimately. Either way the worst decision came in not changing d coordinators after last season. They gota play good one of these games even by accident one would think.
November 2nd, 2018 at 12:50 pm
@Joe – I think its time for a Fitz vs America pole.
November 2nd, 2018 at 12:51 pm
BucFanBF
“They are all in JOB SAVING MODE!! Get use to less then truthful answers moving forward.”
Bingo!!! There are jobs and relationships on the line…truth is the first casualty.
Ironically if it becomes totally apparent that some of these guys are fired perhaps they open up a little but even then they realize 31 other teams are watching so I agree BF…I do not expect honesty from any of these guys and I do not say that as criticism just an observation of the situation.
November 2nd, 2018 at 12:55 pm
^^ It may not be the best time for it, because even a lot of Jameis fans (like myself) agree that Fitz is probably the best play right now.
November 2nd, 2018 at 1:07 pm
“…..
what we’ve seen otherwise we wouldn’t have put so much on him, offensively.”
I want to know what was Jameis seeing?
Feel bad for him, as frustrated as I am I really hope he gets things fixed.
November 2nd, 2018 at 1:14 pm
Fartman wants a Fitz v America poll, which would be meaningless in this forum. But a Fitz v America poll at One Buc would run about 90% Fitz, with abstentions by the head coach and OC.
November 2nd, 2018 at 1:19 pm
Is there REALLY any doubt that Monken was told to deflect questions on Winston? Media always says “Oh we love honesty & candor from coaches” THEN they pick apart every little thing that was said. Can anyone really blame coaches for being cautious when answering the media’s questions?
Insofar as Jameis’ mechanics go, anyone who watches him play week in & week out can easily tell that his mechanics are screwed up. Continually throwing high? Duh, that’s a mechanics problem. Or go back & watch Jameis’ footwork in the last couple of games. I’m certainly no expert, but if your feet are continually jumping all around, chances are things won’t end well. Personally think his confidence is shaken, that he’s trying too hard to ‘make something happen’ and as a consequence he’s not ‘letting the game come to him’ (like Fitz does).
Personally if I were HC Dirk Koetter I’d go ‘back to basics’ with Jameis. I’d start by firing Bajakian & get Jameis a real QB coach real fast who’d work Jameis’ butt off on fundamentals until they became instinctive. Unless we’re making a playoff run by end-Nov, I’d plan on re-inserting Jameis into the lineup for the last 5 games (all toughies), dummy-down the playbook some, and let Jameis (and everyone else on the team) know that December is ‘put up or shut up’ month … for ALL of them. The cream will rise to the top like it always does. The rest can find employment elsewhere next year.
November 2nd, 2018 at 1:27 pm
It is what it is, and it was what it was.
I. Poor Throwing Mechanics
II. Poor Foot Work
III. Accuracy Issues
IV. Awful Interceptions
V. Immaturity Issues
VI. Off-field incidents
Plagued plenty of young promising QB’s
Example(s)
• Jeff George
• David Klingler
• Rick Mirer
• Kerry Collins
• Daunte Culpepper
• Tim Couch
• Ryan Leaf
• Joey Harrington
• Byron Leftwich
• JaMarcus Russell
• Vince Young
Sure they put up some great numbers in spurts—but never developed into the leaders they needed.
Either U Got or U Don’t
November 2nd, 2018 at 1:28 pm
DR
Three plus years and now he needs “Mechanics” work?
This guy was “The most pro-ready” in his draft?
What am I missing here?
November 2nd, 2018 at 1:46 pm
LUV
You may be my favorite poster…although I have plenty of other faves here like D.R.
I can’t ever remember you just pulling something from your posterior…always facts to back it up.
November 2nd, 2018 at 1:53 pm
Sure they put up some great numbers in spurts—but never developed into the leaders they needed them to be.
Either U Got It or U Don’t
November 2nd, 2018 at 2:14 pm
@LUVMYBUCS
You forgot VII – Missing Spleen
Chris Simms
— Just kidding,, always enjoyed watching Chris play for us, and he has become a fun analyst, too.
Nice job with your layout, above
November 2nd, 2018 at 2:18 pm
He’s a baseball player and throws like one… that’s why the ball always sails and he overthrows all the time. Dead obvious to anyone paying attention.
November 2nd, 2018 at 2:20 pm
Jmark I think the mechanics that were mentioned by Carlson was his footwork.
I do see Winston get “happy feet” quite often when is in the pocket for over 3 or so seconds.
I believe Winston could be trained to run a lot of these plays better. Sometimes it looks like he hasn’t practiced some of these plays at all
November 2nd, 2018 at 2:22 pm
@LUVMYBUCS
You forgot
VII. Missing Spleen – Chris Simms
Just kidding — Always enjoyed watching Chris play for us, and he is fun to watch as an analyst now too.
Nice work put in on the above
November 2nd, 2018 at 2:26 pm
@luvmybucs
Jeff George may have been the most talented thrower of a football to ever play the game. His throws were amazing, unfortunately he always played like a drunken turd. No heart, no effort, but that arm kept teams hoping it would all come together. It never did.
November 2nd, 2018 at 2:27 pm
My biggest grief with Winston last week was that 2nd INT.
On that play if both of your reads(one to each flat) are covered then Winston needs to forget all the footwork and BS and run the ball straight ahead……..And because all the reads were to the flats there will be Green grass wide open 95% of the time you run that play.
What the hell is Winston doing still standing there not knowing what to do? The guy looks completely unprepared to me and I want the coach to tell me why.
November 2nd, 2018 at 2:30 pm
A 3 week suspension shouldn’t change 7-8 months worth of work that he put in during the offseason with the same QB coach.
November 2nd, 2018 at 2:31 pm
I think Winston’s mechanics improve if he is better prepared for gameday. I don’t know how they train this team but these unprepared players, like M.J. last week, are starting to really piss me off!!!! I swear I wanna see footage of this team practicing cause I can’t believe their doing more then sitting on couches watching film….Maybe a free weights.
November 2nd, 2018 at 2:32 pm
I’d like to see the Bucs give Gruden a 2nd for Carr and let them battle it out next season rather than drafting a QB from this class.
November 2nd, 2018 at 2:36 pm
Bucfan, been preaching it all week. Don’t know why everyone is being so dismissive of the idea. Let’s see what Griffin has when playing with the first stringers. If he’s a bit shaky at first, it’ll give him great in-game experience. If he totally sucks, why are we carrying 3 QBs on the roster when we need more depth elsewhere? It will give us a much improved idea of our draft priorities.
November 2nd, 2018 at 2:41 pm
You can talk about coaches and coaching, but admit that Jameis often doesn’t listen, ignores called in plays, etc.
November 2nd, 2018 at 2:56 pm
Posey,
Help me out if you will, how do you go from A, baseball throw to Z, overthrows?
There’s nothing linking the two or why A is producing Z. Yes it’s plain to see an overthrown ball. The ball goes over the recievers head. But why?
November 2nd, 2018 at 3:11 pm
Jimmy,
The CBA has really cut down the amount of practice time allowed and it really restricted coach player contact . Yes, it shows up on the field and it hits rookies the hardest. Rookies just don’t get enough practice reps or non contact individual sessions with their position coaches.
Demaurice Smith acted like He negotiated a peace deal between Israel and the Palestinian people. Reality was he hurt the players who he was supposed to represent. by thinking reduced practice and severe restrictions on player coach communication was a benefit worth fighting for. I’m sure the owners were turning blue in the face from trying not to bust out laughing at the man’s peacocking in front of media everyday. Owners used him again so they could sneak out quietly as the peacock preened for the world to notice his brilliance .
Sorry, but I still find it humorous. Bottom line it’s the players who are mostly the reason why you seen lower quality play in the pros today than in years past.
November 2nd, 2018 at 3:12 pm
His game mechanics differ from practice. Seems like he lets the heat of the moment get to him during the game.
November 2nd, 2018 at 3:14 pm
he was ordered to shut his trap….lol….simple as that…..he was probably also told his a$$ is on the griddle as well…..
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!…#PRESSURESONTHECOACHES!!!…GO BUCS!!!!
November 2nd, 2018 at 3:17 pm
stpetebucsfan
Thank U Sir. I also appreciate the shout-outs the other day.
November 2nd, 2018 at 3:20 pm
Tampa Bay Demon
Thanks Bro. Chris was solid before the unfortunate spleen injury.
November 2nd, 2018 at 3:25 pm
Jameis led the Bucs to a 9-7 season a couple years ago before the place kicking screwed him and then he got hurt and played hurt. You fans make me sick calling him bad. He’s an incredible talent and a great human being. Off the field issues are bs. This is football. Grow a pair and root for a real man. Famous Jameis Winston!
November 2nd, 2018 at 3:25 pm
@Jmarkbuc … “Three plus years and now he needs “Mechanics” work? This guy was “The most pro-ready” in his draft? What am I missing here?”
Not missing a thing JMark … except that we bought into an untruth. Jameis’ mechanics have sucked since Day One, and we’ve all read that more than once. But as long as he kept his PASSING YARDAGE numbers up, everyone just kinda shrugged & said “Hey, that’s just Jameis.” Now in Year 4 we’re all realizing that’s NOT a winning formula. Marching up & done the field is best left to marching bands … football offenses are supposed to SCORE, not MARCH.
In 48 games Jameis has put up 75 passing TDs, has rushed for another 9 TDs and sports a 19-29 record. He’s thrown 54 INTs, fumbled 35 times & been sacked a whopping 108 times.
So in terms of averages, that means that Jameis coughs the ball up an average of very close to twice a game, and gets sacked over twice a game. Between his passing TDs & his rushing TDs, he’s averaging less than 2 scores per game. But to keep Joe & others happy, he’s marched up & down the field for 12,817 yards … an average of a whopping 267 yards/game (an excellent passing yardage average BTW). So would I give up on him at this point JMark? Heck no. But SOMETHING’s not right here, and the Bucs don’t need a majorette who can march up & down the field. We need a QB who knows how to SCORE POINTS … for US, not the other team.
November 2nd, 2018 at 3:26 pm
Conte Piscatelli
One of the Best College Arms that I’ve ever seen.
I remember thinking to myself “wow” this dude “might be” better than Bert Jones; when he was drafted.
November 2nd, 2018 at 3:28 pm
Tamp Bay Demon
Thanks Bro.
November 2nd, 2018 at 3:36 pm
Jameis could be playing in Montreal and Joe would still call him America’s Quarterback
November 2nd, 2018 at 3:38 pm
Jameis,
Playing hurt, so what. Everyone plays hurt. Performance is what’s measured not hurt.
2 games plus the missed games is all you can explain off by he’s hurt.
Off field stuff is why he missed the first 3 games. Did you think he was on cruise around the med during that span…he wasnt. Off field matters.
November 2nd, 2018 at 3:40 pm
stpetebucsfan
I’m sure you’ll appreciate this.
Jimi Hendrix – Machine Gun (Live At Filmore East, New York/1970)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJw_XqvsSIs
#Something2Ride2
#FridayJamsOnJBF
November 2nd, 2018 at 4:25 pm
@DR and LUV
Agreed 100%, great posts.
November 2nd, 2018 at 4:51 pm
unbelievable
Respect Bredren
November 2nd, 2018 at 5:47 pm
He has never really been right he is behind and under balls allot . We could also say his body and stride are in front a tick it was so obvious last game it looked like Jameis two years prior . I really don’t think these coaches see it they are just so worried about the shorter throwing motion . I truly think Carson could help him in a day or two !!! Former buc help the Buc but you know these coaches won’t have it , it’s all about that coach ego !!! I have never ever seen any coach going over footwork and motion during a game with Winston to help him bring the ball down . The short interception was nothing more than a pitcher not stepping and throwing to first . Hard headed and coaching !!!
November 2nd, 2018 at 5:58 pm
Defense,
Winston in year 1 with the team could be very tight with his drops and releases. So yes at times His footwork was messy but other times it was textbook .
Just saying his footwork / mechanics is horrible is just too broad a statement. More to the point is, under pressure especially but often just pocket movement is when the problem hits the fan. Exact nature of it is when pressure comes He doesn’t have a plan beforehand so the first thing He moves is his head and shoulders. That’s the wrong way to do it.
Reps in practice and drilling after practice. Pressure or stress brings him to his set point. Which is surprisingly like amazing for a pro player, to have so few reps acquired up to now. Or he is doing the reps and there’s a wiring issue in his brain. Consider the entirety of him and it may be the latter.
That said, his lack of proper movement is a big reason why he so damned elusive scrambling.
Guys don’t often tackle Jerry’s kids at practice. They’re unprepared for a non pro.
November 2nd, 2018 at 7:03 pm
Many say that the playbook is dialed back for Jamies so he doesn’t throw as many ints….where I completely disagree it to be the opposite. Ryan Fitzpatrick clearly has access the the full playbook and freedom to do whatever wants. In my opinion if you only give Jameis half of the play to call, then that gives the opposing defense only half to worry about on Sunday.
Ive also noticed that EVERYTHING that comes out of Jameiss hands is being pushed down field 15 to 20 yards. When are we going to get with the times and start using our running backs in the passing game? Since week 2 the offense has looked more like last season. I still am convinced Koetter has taken over playacting or has put a damper on Monkens options.
This team is poorly coached and This offense is the ONLY NFL offense that has been coached to Jameis.
If I’ve invested four years into a first round qb, and of those four years he has only had one offensive playbook and coach and that qb starts regressing in his fourth year, being as hard of a worker as he is I’m willing to bet its the coaching more than the QB. Also considering that this coaching staff waits waaaaaay to long to make changes and assessments, all of their on field decisions and management is among the worst in the league and all other phases of theta are failing ( special teams and defense) it would be STUPID to blame Jameis solelyfor the losses. Give him protection, give him a defense and get with the times on the playbook on offense and he will be fine.
Not holding my breath though….this team sucks.
November 2nd, 2018 at 9:25 pm
In 5 years…. Winston will be a mechanic.
November 3rd, 2018 at 5:39 am
Bucemup,
Many say the plays are dialed back.
Many as in fans? I dont recall DK or TM saying theyve done that. There’s no reason to do it, JW isn’t a rookie.
Last Yr Fitz was limited. This year no.
Monken is calling the plays. It was easy to predict that as soon as JW came back , the accusations that DK is running it again would come up. It was that easy to predict and happened to the letter…..and it’s not because DK took over.
Fitz audibles or tags differently from Winston , no s#it!
Its not DK or playbook or whatever feeds into the it’s not winston narrative.
Fitz has 14yrs in the league. Most people blow that off so fast that it’s mind-boggling.
Huge difference in how each guy is seeing things. Add Fitz is smarter.
No shock, except to 911 winstoners, they choose different solutions for the same problem.