So, About Those Picks
October 30th, 2018
Those heinous picks have Jameis standing in quality company.
Joe has cool readers. And some like to do football research.
Yes, America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston, recently has been on an interception binge. It’s not good but it should hardly be grounds to throw the guy overboard given recent NFL history.
Yesterday Bucs coach Dirk Koetter benched Jameis for almost 36-year old journeyman backup Ryan Fitzpatrick. It reeks of the final act of a desperate man trying to save his job. Koetter all but admitted that at his press conference last year.
Oh, to be a fly on the wall in the office of Team Glazer.
Well, as far as interceptions, let’s take a look at some other turnover machines and see how their careers turned out.
Thru 48 career NFL starts: attempts in ( )
Jameis: 74 TDs, 52 INTs, 12,672 yards (1672)
Favre: 75 TDs, 54 INTs, 10,802 (1635)
Peyton: 85 TDs, 58 INTs, 12,287 (1679)
Eli: 68 TDs, 55 INTs, 9,803 (1550)
Elway: 58 TDs, 56 INTs, 9,681 (1463)
Marino: 111 TDs, 56 INTs, 13,274 (1645)— Underground King (@Brodie07Perry) October 29, 2018
Gee, those guys were so horrible, they got benched too, eh?
Oh, and Peyton Manning, Dan Marino and John Elway each had four-pick games in their fourth seasons.
Koetter said yesterday Jameis’ days with the Bucs are not over. Joe senses something far different, but Joe hopes Koetter isn’t blowing smoke (he recently claimed Jameis would be playing quarterback for the Bucs long after he’s gone).
But suppose Jameis is done and consider when Fitzpatrick is gone (who here really believes Fitz will be the Bucs’ starting quarterback in 2020)? All Joe has to say for those dancing over Jameis’ grave, be careful what you wish for.
Remember those halcyon days when the Bucs annually tried to find a quarterback from NFL landfills or third-day draft picks? Fun times!
October 30th, 2018 at 12:06 am
I still think something was wrong with Jameis after he took that blow to the head. He never looked right after the hit. Not making excuses like Vinny being color blind but that’s not what Jameis does.
October 30th, 2018 at 12:06 am
Winston won’t be going anywhere, even though he should be. His erratic play plus his off field issues is not what you want to be the face of the Buccaneers. You just don’t see any of this stuff from the great ones.
October 30th, 2018 at 12:09 am
Scratch….
-Elway: 58 TDs, 56 INTs, 9,681 (1463)
-Marino: 111 TDs, 56 INTs, 13,274 (1645)
-Favre: 75 TDs, 54 INTs, 10,802 (1635)
Different Era of Football
Sh!t Most of Peyton & Eli ‘s career the rules didn’t favor the QB’s/WR’s as much as they have over the past 4years.
Sooo
October 30th, 2018 at 12:10 am
Scratch….
-Elway: 58 TDs, 56 INTs, 9,681 (1463)
-Marino: 111 TDs, 56 INTs, 13,274 (1645)
-Favre: 75 TDs, 54 INTs, 10,802 (1635)
Different Era of Football
Sh!t Most of Peyton & Eli ‘s career the rules didn’t favor the QB’s/WR’s as much as they have over the past 4years.
Sooo
October 30th, 2018 at 12:14 am
I think Fitz starting now has more to do with the way the team reacts to him than it does to Jameis being finished as a Buccaneer. It’s pretty obvious that the team responds very well to Fitz. Dirk has to consider the state of his team currently.
October 30th, 2018 at 12:15 am
Joe
Go ask any QB/WR/DB coach work his salt – about how much the game (rules) has changed over the past 6rys.
October 30th, 2018 at 12:23 am
He’s only 25. Jameis stays. For the last time, his career path will ultimately be determined by what he does (or doesn’t do) off the field, not on it.
October 30th, 2018 at 12:29 am
How 1994’s pass-friendly rule changes saved a moribund league and created the modern NFL.https://slate.com/culture/2014/09/1994-nfl-rules-how-a-series-of-pass-friendly-changes-saved-a-moribund-league-and-created-the-modern-nfl.html
October 30th, 2018 at 12:31 am
Great! Winston should start on Sunday. I’m convinced.
October 30th, 2018 at 12:32 am
Pretty sure those Qbs didn’t have such a crappy win/loss record. I’m sure some of them had decent weapons, but Winstons offense is absolutely stacked and rules that favour offense. Also he throws so many in the red zone. Can tell he’s not a good quarterback without stats. Pretty sure all of the above showed reasons to believe they’d be good and didn’t have as much off the field hassle. Jameis is done. Doesn’t have it between the ears as shown on and off the field. Never learns in eithe case
October 30th, 2018 at 12:37 am
Those other quarter backs didn’t have close to the receivers Winston does so who cares about those stats .starting to wonder if joe is turning into one of these tabloid sites joe your losing credibility
October 30th, 2018 at 12:38 am
Since 1995, the NFL has allowed a WR forced out of bounds by a defender to return in bounds and make a play. This helped eliminate the move of “chucking” a WR out of bounds to remove him from a play. In 1996, the NFL announced they’d actually enforce the illegal contact penalty, created in 1978, more stringently than before. The rule was no longer just a recommendation.
In 2001, the NFL announced Roughing the QB penalty would be enforced more strictly and specifically targeted late hits. By 2002, they protected the QB even further by barring helmet-to-helmet contact with a QB at any time, even after a change of possession. The NFL again tightened down enforcement of already existing rules for illegal contact, pass interference, and defensive holding in 2004.
QBs received even more protection in 2006 when the NFL barred hits to the QBs below their knees unless the defensive player was blocked into the QB. WRs saw additional protection in 2009 when contact to the head of a defenseless receiver was prohibited. The NFL expanded the rules for defenseless receivers to include all players in 2010. They also threatened an additional crackdown on these penalties and threatened players with suspensions.
As you can see from the recap of the rules, it wasn’t until the mid-90s when defensive players were called out more for penalties and in the past 5 years, the QBs and receivers have enjoyed much more protection than ever before
Prior to 2008, a QB has only surpassed 5,000 yards passing in a season only a single time. Brees became the second QB to reach that milestone in 2008. In 2011, 3 QBs alone topped 5,000 passing yards. Only 10 years ago, surpassing 7.0 YPA for a QB was considered very good. Only 11 QBs would reach that mark. 10 QBs surpassed that mark in 2003. By 2008, 17 QBs reached that mark. Over the years, we’ve changed what we have come to expect from QBs.
A 60% completion percentage was once considered a milestone for a successful season. In 1983, only 8 QBs completed over 60% of their passes. 20 QBs surpassed that in 2010. Now, that is just the baseline for a QB.
In 1983, when the defense still had an even ground, 10 QBs had 5% or more of their passes intercepted, including John Elway and Ken Stabler. Only 4 QBs, including Dan Marino, had less than 3% of their passes intercepted. In 2010, only a single QB had 5% or more of his passes were intercepted. On the flip side, 18 QBs had less than 3% of their passes intercepted. Offensive production has come at the sacrifice of the defense.
-(Research write-up) Per: My Guy Phinehead83
October 30th, 2018 at 12:38 am
The big difference is the missing stat the other guys were winners 48 games in and not always on good teams. And all had been to the playoffs. Most were going to the playoffs in the year they reached 48 games.
Jameis: 19-29 (0-0)
Favre: 28-20 (2-2)
Peyton: 26-22 (0-2)
Eli: 26-22 (0-1)
Elway: 34-14 (0-2)
Marino: 35-13 (3-3) including a Super Bowl loss
Winston is only statistically on paper with these other guys but certainly not on the field.
October 30th, 2018 at 12:39 am
I checked the PFT site on the Fitzpatrick replacing Winston article they put out today, and I must say the comments there give some real insight as to what non-Bucs fans around the NFL think of Jameis Winston. Spoiler: It ain’t pretty if you’re a Winston defender.
October 30th, 2018 at 12:42 am
JOE,
Two problems with your premise. 1) America’s Bencharmer is playing in a different era than any of the players you listed. 2.)
America’s benchwarmer has a losing record
As a starting NFL QB, and it’s not even close.
October 30th, 2018 at 12:47 am
And the only one who had any off the field drama was Elway and that was simply that he refused to play for the team who drafted him, the Baltimore Colts, and the threat to play baseball instead. Thus forcing the trade to Denver.
I thought at the time it was a bogus thing to do but it a far cry from Winston’s “hassles”
October 30th, 2018 at 12:52 am
@Coburn
@Ryan McGregor
Exactly lets show it again…
Jameis: 19-29 (0-0)
Favre: 28-20 (2-2)
Peyton: 26-22 (0-2)
Eli: 26-22 (0-1)
Elway: 34-14 (0-2)
Marino: 35-13 (3-3) including a Super Bowl loss
October 30th, 2018 at 12:52 am
how many of those picks happen in the redzone? love my bucs but everytime jw3 is on offense u wonder if he is gonna have a completion or a pick
October 30th, 2018 at 12:55 am
Wow, I see several JBFers who played right into Joe’s hands on the Winston ‘issue’. Or should that be ‘hassle’? Whatever.
One day Joe screams that Jameis’ INTs are killing us. Next day it’s ‘Oh, but look at how much WORSE these other great QBs were at the same point in their careers.’ Isn’t that kinda like saying ‘Just hold on a little longer guys and Moses will lead you out of the desert to the Promised Land’. Then 40 years later … Voila!
October 30th, 2018 at 12:56 am
Here we go…
October 30th, 2018 at 1:03 am
Trade Winston please, so I never have to come back to this site again:)
October 30th, 2018 at 1:05 am
What quarterback would want to play for the Buc’s
No protection
No support
No “got yer back”
Not from the offensive line
Not from the rest of the team
Not from the staff or front office
And the so called “fans”……?
October 30th, 2018 at 1:13 am
I would have to say the times do play a role but to say those guys would be better in this time or Jameis wouldn’t be better in those times is pure speculation.
I think Jameis still has potential in this league. For this team? Idk. It would be nice given the investment, but I think he needs a new coordinator, the right coordinator for him, whoever that may be.
Matt Ryan didn’t win MVP and go to the Super Bowl until Shanahan was his Coordinator (and Dirk was gone). It’s like the relationship saying, “ sometimes you meet the right people at the wrong time.” I think Jameis can be successful like anyone else if the chips fall into place.
Every game and every season in the NFL can vary drastic and we have seen Jameis do some truly amazing things. Unfortunately we have also seen him do some embarrassing and dreadful things as well. As hard as he works and as strong as his will, I would not count the guy out completely yet.
Anyway, Go BUCS!!
October 30th, 2018 at 1:19 am
So Dirk Koetter’s benching Jameis “reeks of the final act of a desperate man trying to save his job” Joe? I’m not a big Dirk Koetter fan any longer, BUT … could it be instead that Koetter’s doing what a HEAD COACH should do? That he’s FINALLY taking the actions that he believes will give his TEAM the best chance to win? Isn’t WINNING kinda what this sport called football is supposed to be all about? Or have they started giving ‘style points’ to those teams compiling the most passing yardage?
Reality is that, through his immature actions, Jameis brought ALL of this onto himself. And in the process, he screwed what was HIS team (Hint: it’s NOT his team any longer).
Another reality is that Jameis isn’t nearly as good as you keep making him out to be. Yes, if you give him a gold chariot, armed with all kinds of weapons, he can drive it up and down the field (and pile up yards upon yards). But he’s NOT leading his army to victory like a competent FIELD GENERAL would … he’s just driving up and down the field. At some point the army gets tired of losing battle after battle, and starts looking for a new general to take his place.
October 30th, 2018 at 1:25 am
Give anyone of them this horrific, historically bad defense, kicking game and running game that’s averaged 2.9 ypc for 3 years and tell me what their W-L record looks like. Look at the times Winston has won throwing the ball for 35 or more times in a game with the defense letting up 30 points and then do the opposite. Football is a sport played in context. You can’t build a team completely backwards, from the outside-in, ignore the trenches for YEARS and rely on “explosives” and think your 20-24 year old qb is gonna play MVP ball every down. It doesn’t work like that. This team is built to win 9 games MAX, and in the NFC South, that gets you 3rd place and sitting at home in January. The Bucs are broken in many ways, and Fitzmagic does not get them to the playoffs even playing at his current clip. His last two starts will tell you that. Jameis needs to find a way to fix the turnovers but he is not the reason they are so bad, and you’re uninformed and ignorant if you think so.
October 30th, 2018 at 1:34 am
Why wasn’t Winston suspended by the team for pushing Lattimore’s helmet from the sideline? Why wasn’t Winston suspended by the team for nearly running Buc Legend Shelton Quarles over in a nice jacket for objecting a called fumble? Why wasn’t Winston suspended by the team for headbutting the Dallas defender out of frustration? Why wasn’t Winston suspended by the team for being suspended by the NFL for the Uber incident? I’m too tired to remember others if there are more. Do we wonder why this team has no accountability within itself? Thankfully, the fans have begun holding people accountable.
Why are we forgetting that Koetter complained of Winston possibly going off the script last week? Everyone can see him say it in press conference.
People will not be sold on Winston. They have eyeballs. Everyone knows he can be great at some things. He needs to be complete and kick ass. That is what #1 overall picks do. That is what the fans expect. Who can blame them? Winston must sell himself to escape the hole he created. I don’t believe Winston is done in Tampa. There is too much invested for him to be done. The owners need to step in and bring in a QB consultant/coach.
Koetter needs to go count grass blades for a bit. Why is he unable to help anyone? This team was riding playoff aspirations a few games ago grasping for leadership and he has the thousand yard stare at the press conference. I can just imagine the locker room. As PriMech above pointed out, Winston has had zero support from any phase of the game and that lies on Dirk “We were done before Halloween” Koetter. From the kicker to the defense to the QB there appears to be no leadership. Some by his own admission. Major problem.
October 30th, 2018 at 1:48 am
When you draft a gunslinger, in the mold of Favre (the NFL’s all-time INT king) you’re going to have days like Sunday – it’s just the way it is. If you want a game manager who doesn’t turn the ball over then you keep Mike Glennon.
Even as a Jameis backer I’ve said all year, you play the hot hand – plus Jameis has historically been pretty awful against Carolina. Unlike the Jameis haters I don’t want the team to lose because my guy isn’t under center. The season is over at 3-5 and Dirk and gang are fired, so you play Fitz for this game. I personally don’t think Fitz will look very good – but I’ll be more than happy to be proven wrong. As for Jameis he’ll be back and is the long term starter. I know that triggers the Jameis haters – but that’s just the way it is.
Anywho we’ll see what happens Sunday, but hopefully Fitz can somehow pull a rabbit out of his hat and not turn into a pumpkin again like he did in his last two starts.
BTW with a real kicker Winston was 2-1. Fitz with a real kicker is 2-2, but I still think he’s 3-1 if Dirk isn’t a coward and doesn’t punt at the end of the Pitts game, but Dirk is Dirk, and that means you make the wrong decision 9 out of 10 times.
October 30th, 2018 at 1:58 am
There is a big difference in comparing the QBs straight up with stats. It never tells the full story.
One thing, as others have mentioned, it was a different league then.
Secondly and more importantly, who was actually going to take over for Favre, Marino, Elway, P Manning, E Manning if they were benched? The fact of the matter is Jameis DESERVED to be benched against Cincy and the fact of the matter is Fitz outplayed him in 1.2 quarters bringing the team back to tie with the same friggin team. We have a luxury at QB.
And last, Jameis has had opportunities to learn from Fitz while suspended for 3 games this season and when he injured his shoulder last season. It hasn’t helped.
Jameis Winston deserves all the criticism he gets because he talks a big game, tries to be the vocal leader, says he has to work at his craft, etc. He’s got a HUGE target on his back thanks to his mouth.
Would Jameis have been the #1 pick in the 2016 draft? Hell no. Unfortunately, he has to live up to the #1 pick scrutiny.
How do you defend a guy who admits he saw the defender in his passing lane and still threw the ball for a pick-6?
October 30th, 2018 at 2:00 am
This the downside of being the #1 overall draft pick
You get drafted by a 2-14 crappy football team
A team that will fire it Head Coach after your rookie season
A franchise that haven’t seen the playoffs in 7 years
A franchise with a career 239-379-1 record
A franchise that free agents avoid
A team that had 11 starting QB in 10 seasons before you were drafted
A team that had 5 Head Coaches in 8 seasons
A team that lack talent
A team that has one of the worst FO in the NFL
Welcome to the dysfunctional world of the Buccaneers——Rookie
October 30th, 2018 at 2:10 am
@Rod Munch,
You simply choose to ignore the FACT that Ryan Fitzpatrick is a GUNSLINGER in your defense of Winston. Your argument doesn’t hold water.
October 30th, 2018 at 2:12 am
Words of wisdom……..play like you’re in first………train like you’re in second!!!!!
October 30th, 2018 at 2:13 am
Losing more street Cred by the minute. I mean wow. Yah , Jameis is just like all those HOFs. I love the careful what you wish for comment. Yah – how bout we wish for some dang wins Anyone can see with their own 2 eyes that the offense has more swag with fitz in there. The players know it. Desean Jackson knows it. Is Jameis more talented – absolutely. But there is something very wrong with Jameis head. He can’t help but turn the ball over every game. No one has more turnovers since they have been in the league. (2015)
It’s been so bad recently that He’s looked like he has never played football before in his life. Stop with the blind love. Every other website has said that he needs to be benched . It said he is not the guy. He can’t throw the ball downfield on regular basis. Charley check down or runs cause he doesn’t trust his arm. Pretty sure the coaches have seen guys wide open on regular basis when they watch game from all 20 plus angles.
Not here in joejameisfan.com where we will protect one player at all costs. Who cares about the rest of the team. We call our favorite player” America . “. You guys have reached a new low. How bout putting the best players out there who give us the best chance to win. It sucks he was 1st pick and money invested. These coaches and GM need to win now.
October 30th, 2018 at 2:15 am
Can’t believe the non-stop salad tossing here
October 30th, 2018 at 2:26 am
Better yet and this is the best one
Let’s give him 20-25 mil a year for the next 4 / 5 years so we can sign even less quality players with salary cap . Let’s do it for obsessed joe. That would make him so happy. So he can blame everyone else for another few years. The best was him blaming his old coach who he trained with during his 3 game suspension. Joe you are losing your mind with these conspiracy theories
Good Jameis vs bad Jameis has turned into a one man show with bad Jameis usually winning in the end. And you all are Demanding a solution? Heck I don’t know. But Jameis is just so average in year 4. Any option is better then locking him down like Bortles. You think Jacksonville is happy they gave bortles a small extension
This offense is so boring under Jameis. He is good between the 20’s but not with td ‘s. Good with the 15 -20 yard pass cause he is baseball pitcher but not really good at the other throws.
October 30th, 2018 at 2:32 am
lambchop – Gunslingers need to be guys with huge arms, that get in trouble because they have that huge arm. Fitz has a gunslinger mentality, but he doesn’t have the arm, that’s why he’s always got in trouble late in seasons playing outdoors in bad weather. Anywho Fitz is in his 14th year, which means he’s had a lifetime of learning and he’s at the end of his career, so I’m not really sure what you’re offended by or not offended by, nor do I really get your point as I was talking about Jameis. As for Fitz, he’s Fitz, he’ll throw for 400 yards and 5 TDs and then the next week have 131 yards and 3 INTs, he is who he is. But if he’s hot, you ride the hot hand – and as I said Jameis has traditionally played poorly against the Panthers so give Fitz the nod and let him see if he can get the W. If he can then great, you play him until he turns into Fitz again, at which point you put Winston back end. In any case it’s still Winston’s team going forward, and if it isn’t, then the Bucs will have once again made one their moronic moves that sets the franchise back a decade or two.
October 30th, 2018 at 2:37 am
If we had message boards in the 80s the Winston haters would have calling for Steve Young to be ran out of town, they’d be saying how we totally took advantage of the 49ers that Young is terrible and we need to cut him and take a QB with the 1st overall pick. Then the next year they’d be saying how Vinny Testaverde is a total bust and will be out of football in 24 months… It’s called a lynch mob and you dopes have the mental stability of a woman on her period.
October 30th, 2018 at 2:40 am
Bird,
How you doing , again let me say thanks for the tix last season.
Salad tossing! Lol….ridiculously funny
October 30th, 2018 at 2:47 am
Duke-
I may not make the redskins game this year and will let you know. Stay tuned
October 30th, 2018 at 2:54 am
Steve Young won 3 games in two years.
11TD v 21ints.
If the 49ers signed him to play right away, you may have something, but they didn’t and you don’t.
20/20 vision backwards is Buc Fans. Young Williams and Dilfer none of them was resigned to be the starter. Williams wasn’t even in the league and when He did return it was a back up spot. Same with young same with Dilfer.
October 30th, 2018 at 3:04 am
Joes, you need to take a deep breath. Letting JameIs go opens up a lot of financial space to sign guys long term (evident how much we need to extend Kwon’s contract after last game). And if we can trade him for something right now, all the better. Make a play for Bridgewater in the offseason and target Grier in the draft, we’re looking solid in the short term and much more promising in the long term than we do right now.
And speaking of right now, we’re witnessing one hell of an exciting story with Fitz (which makes the games fun again, for, you know, the fans) – a guy who’s seen it all and has the luxury of the best skill position pass catching talent in the league. Because the key to making this offense hum is not a strong-arm rifling the ball between defenders – it’s a knowledgable mind who will always throw the ball to the open man, because on almost every play in this offense, there is an open man. You can throw out all the stats you want Joe…I use the eye test. And it doesn’t take 20/20 vision to see this offense just feels different with Fitz. We’ve seen how consistently dangerous and exciting this team looks on one side of the ball with him behind quarterback, and with the same exact personnel, it looks and feels like something else with the other guy – chaotic.
Time to take the Winston blinders off, gentlemen, and start putting the team ahead of the individual. Starting to feel like one of these Joes would get depressed if this team goes on a Fitzmagic winning streaking and we make the playoffs. JoeBucsFan or JoeJameisFan? For real guys.
October 30th, 2018 at 3:09 am
Bird,
Thank you for the consideration. Like I mentioned, it was the first game for my wife, it was the best first game ever. Prior to the game She said she wanted a pic with JW, we sent it to you, that was really cool considering the game.
She’s been to hundreds of HS and College games. But it was the first game we ever got to watch together ( she’s been in the stands, me on the field) so it was really special. Thank you.
October 30th, 2018 at 3:16 am
League is alot different nowadays. Passing is at an all time high. Go look at stats from some all time great QBs and notice they’re stats aren’t as good as you’d think. Qb nowadays are in a bubble that can rarely be touched. Db’s cant nearly be as physical as they used too. Completion percentages are at an all time high. Inflated numbers from handcuffed defenses and garbage time TDs and yards. Just putting lipstick on a pig. Winston is a turnover machine. Abort now.
October 30th, 2018 at 3:38 am
@Rod … “In any case it’s still Winston’s team going forward, and if it isn’t, then the Bucs will have once again made one their moronic moves that sets the franchise back a decade or two.” Is it HIS team or isn’t it Rod? It can’t be BOTH ways.
I’ve heard excuse after excuse in support of Jameis. Oh, the defense let him down. Oh, he doesn’t have a running game. Oh, the OLine isn’t protecting him well enough. Usually followed by “Wow, look at how well he drives this Cadillac up & down the field”.
UNTIL of course we sniff the Red Zone. Or UNTIL defenders have the audacity to step into his passing lanes. Josh Freeman was just as good at one point as Jameis is at moving the ball. In 2012 Freeman threw for 4,065 yds & 27 TDs … with 17 INTs. In 2016 Winston threw for 4,090 yds & 28 TDs … with 18 INTs. Kinda similar numbers? Yes they were … until Freeman’s head got in the way of his performance on the field.
Did the Bucs make the right call by NOT sticking with Josh Freeman? In retrospect it seems like they did. i personally loved the kid, and thought that the Bucs had FINALLY found a QB they could build around. IMO, Josh was OUR Cam Newton. Did Schiano ruin him or did he ruin himself? Don’t know, but it’s not relevant anyways. The old saying ‘You are where you are’ applies. Freeman’s gone; that option is no longer on the table.
The ;Jameis option’ however is still on the table. None of us get a vote in how that option will play out. IF the Bucs’ ownership decides to move on, Jameis may go on to have a Brett Favre-like career. OR a Josh Freeman-like career. Not my call, not Joe’s call, probably not even Dirk Koetter’s call at this point. The only one who COULD influence that decision is Jameis himself. Right now though, he’s not doing a very good job of that.
October 30th, 2018 at 3:40 am
Now add FUMBLES LOST to those stats. Winston has had many more fumbles than those other QBs.
As others have pointed out, Winston had 9 less wins over 48 games than the least successful of those QBs in their first 48 games. Winston has a 39% win percentage. LOLZ.
The Jameis Winston Era in Tampa is OVER.
Hat tip: To poster that called him “America’s Benchwarmer.
October 30th, 2018 at 3:45 am
ROD – you need to get a clue about football.
So Fitz having the occasional bad game is “Fitz being Fitz” but Winston consistently having had games and many turnovers “is an exception”???
NO. Winston turning the ball over is Winston being Winston and he should never see the field again for the Bucs. Bucs should save the cap money and go with Fitz for 2-3 years while they try to and draft a young QB of the future.
October 30th, 2018 at 4:28 am
Keep swinging from that sack guys,and were is that Podcast Justin!
October 30th, 2018 at 4:41 am
That’s such a losers mentality to say be careful what you ask for…
That’s the attitude that has kept Gerald McCoy as the identity of this defense and kept us in the NFC basement.
Joe, no one is dancing on his grave but there needs to be some accountability. Enough coddling and excuses. These INTs are grotesque and show poor mechanics. Please stop with the be careful mentality.
October 30th, 2018 at 5:04 am
It seems the biggest problem Winston has is game management. Seems like a high percentage of his picks are on 1st or 2nd down. This last game vs Bengals 3 of 4 interceptions were either 1st or 2nd down. The pick he had on third down was his fourth of the day, a pick 6. He has to learn how to manage his snaps better. Not every play is going to work. He just can’t get that in his head. Whoever is quarterbacking this team has to realize the D is awful. You can’t give the other team good field position or momentum as much as Winston does with his turnovers. He has to learn that punting is ok too. Nothing wrong with taking a sack or throwing ball away. Winston thinks he can win every snap. I like confidence, but football smarts is more important. Nothing wrong with being a game manager, especially early in the game.
October 30th, 2018 at 5:27 am
Decided to look up Winston picks vs Browns and Falcons. 4 picks, none were on third down. 1st and 2nd down picks for all 4. You have to live for another play when it’s not there.
October 30th, 2018 at 5:31 am
Joe since your heads been up there.. do crab legs smell better or worse going out than coming in?
October 30th, 2018 at 5:44 am
And exactly how has Jameis game been trending? It hasn’t been up, he is the same quarterback he was as a rookie, flashes just enough to keep him in the lineup, and just enough to lose you some games. They call those guys coach killers.
October 30th, 2018 at 5:48 am
Those QB’s actually had some good receivers not sure I agree with that point
Jackson & Johnson
Duper & Clayton
Harrison, Dilger & Wayne. He also had M Faulk followed E James
Sharpe & Freeman
October 30th, 2018 at 6:00 am
Trade Mariota for Jameis straight up. Titans would laugh at u dumb Bucs fans. Jameis is and will be great. He’s had a lot to overcome. Once he gets over the fanbase turning on him, stops reading the negative media, and gets back to football I will see. Famous Jameis. America’s Quarter Back.
October 30th, 2018 at 6:06 am
I agree with you Tackleblockwin – JW just can’t do “his” job. He looks up and sees that it’s 21 – 6 in the 2nd quarter and he just starts slinging. He forces 3rd and 20 at the +40 yrd line instead of taking the gimme 10 yards and kicking the field goal. Why because our FG kicker sucks…then its 28 to 13 and now he feels like his defense can’t stop anyone so he has to win the game himself. Fitz is more calm and lets the game come to him. He just understands the overall game better than JW and he should – he’s played 10 more years.
JW deserves to be benched – I like JW and I personally think a good coach can turn him around in the turnover department. I just don’t know if you can teach accuracy – his ball placement is awful. If he ever plays for us again…watch when he gets the ball out on time – he makes some ridiculous throws…but it seems if he has to come off that 1st read…his 2nd or 3rd read is going to be late and high.
I don’t know if you can compare the different Eras but look at the coaches too
Mike Holmgren
Jim Mora
Dan Reeves
Don Shula
Tom Coughlin
Dirk Koetter
October 30th, 2018 at 6:19 am
We could live with those numbers — if Winston had shown any indication he was a potential Favre or Marino or Manning. But he hasn’t.
October 30th, 2018 at 6:33 am
What tripe!
Looking at numbers says nothing about how those INTs happened. Receivers could be running wrong routes, receivers could have balls bounce off their hands to the defenders, defenders could make superior plays, ect…
What we saw on Sunday was Jay-Miss *passing* to the other team. The INT stats don’t even begin to tell the story of all the fumbles.
Let it go, Joe. Jay-Miss is done here. The team doesn’t respond to him like they do to Fitz. That’s on Jay-Miss and no one else.
October 30th, 2018 at 6:38 am
The QB that was the least effected by the wind and conditions was Fitz. Jameis
has needed more work on his mechanics and ball placement throughout his career with Bucs in the off season. His choice of offseason coach hasn’t helped. The problem I see is that he has focused more on fitness and his running than honing his QB skills. Still a lot of balls being thrown and high and hard and touch was lacking when needed one of his interceptions. His INT’s are giving momentum to the wrong team at the most
critical times and having a negative effect on both our defense and offense.
October 30th, 2018 at 6:39 am
Uh Joe, by tripe I’m referring to the QB comparison numbers not your writing skills. My apologies for any confusion.
October 30th, 2018 at 6:44 am
Telling, very telling. The benching that is. Coach thinks the Beard gives us a better chance to win. Did Elway, Marino, or even Favre get benched? Not relieved, BENCHED.
Poor comparison.
The “interview” is not going well!
October 30th, 2018 at 6:51 am
We will all know, @ 4:00pm, until then, put away all of Your White Sheets!!!!
October 30th, 2018 at 6:55 am
Winston will win a superbowl. Just not with the bucs. Accept our fate and move on.
October 30th, 2018 at 7:05 am
Love the cherry picking of players to look at
Check out Dalton and Bortles INT stats during the same period.
October 30th, 2018 at 7:08 am
I agree with most the posts here… This article is completely irrelevant because now you get a 15yard penalty for touching the opposing QB…..
AKA its much easier and pass rush isn’t as intense as it was for the QBs mentioned above, nice try Joe but Bucs nation ain’t buying it bring on the Fitz Magic.
October 30th, 2018 at 7:28 am
…aaaaannndd, teams could actually play defense when those others were playing.
If you’re honestly going to compare Winston to HOFer’s then there’s truly no hope for you to ever come to reality.
Today’s NFL is just a practice in risk mitigation on offense. The rules are set in place to allow average QB’s to put up stupid numbers if they have good skill position players around them, hense why Fitzpatrick is tearing it up when he goes in. The NFL rules tilt towards a guy like him that has the capacity to throw timing routes and good deep balls.
October 30th, 2018 at 7:33 am
Are you guys serious? Peyton mannings weapons were much better…reggie wayne marvin harrison edgerrin james?? Wow you guys have short memories
October 30th, 2018 at 7:42 am
Winston is this Buccaneers’ generation version of Vinny Testeverde. Top overall pick in the draft from a Florida college, absolutely stunk up the joint in their final college games and instead of color blindness, we have Uber Gate as the calamity. Like Vinny, I suspect Winston will eventually have success…elsewhere.
October 30th, 2018 at 7:56 am
I couldn’t imagine Marinos numbers in this era and these weapons.
October 30th, 2018 at 8:18 am
Winston has been widly inconsistent compared to the guys on this list. Sure they turned the ball over but for stretches the lived up to the hype. When a QB has 2-3 games where he lights up defenses the has a bad outing. You can live with it.Winston hasn’t had a single game that makes you say the lights come on, he’s got it. Even when he has a decent game. It’s marred by picks and 2-3 head scratching throws that should have been picked off. Or he takes a sack at critical point in the game.
The other glaring difference between Winston and these guys. If DJack has a step on a defender running a deep route. These guys make that throw 9 out 10 times. Winston has to connect on those passes.
October 30th, 2018 at 8:20 am
Well crap, do I feel better already. This means JW should be a H.O.F. He done caught all those QB’s in INT’s in just 4 seasons. WTG crab legs!
Oh by the way those 48 supposed starts by other QBs are cherry picked and not 48 consecutive starts. JW should get a trophy because he done it in 48 consecutive starts. Now that’s a real humdinger of a gunslinger right there!
October 30th, 2018 at 8:38 am
They all had hall of fame coaches supporting them. They started to win when they got defenses to support them.
October 30th, 2018 at 8:38 am
2020 TUA enough said, the pundits, the analysts, the sportswriters, local and national are all in consensus, jameis must go and what’s worse half of these former football players that are on these sports shows are laughing at jameis literally, while they talk about it, dion sanders among the guilty parties, i feel for winston and i have been in his corner, after four years i have had enough. what was the kicker is how fitz came in the game sunday, cold as ice, facing the same defense, the same weather conditions, and had the same crew to work with, and the difference was astonishing nothing less, an eye opener, suddenly fitz comes in and opens the flood gates, and with ease the long ball was finding it’s receiver, the defense perked up and we almost won, jameis has lost the locker room, time to move on, when your team no longer believes in you as the one to lead them to victory, let alone a super bowl
October 30th, 2018 at 8:40 am
i saw a stat yesterday that had Winston #2 in turnovers since the time he was drafted with 70 only behind blake brotles with 72….and blake has a full season on Winston…..
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!…#PRESSURESONTHECOACHES!!!!!…GO BUCS!!!!
October 30th, 2018 at 8:49 am
It pays to be in the good graces of the joes. You can totally shat the bed and they will confidently have your back. I call those types of people ride or die chicks.
October 30th, 2018 at 9:07 am
Winston should be starting Sunday. This organization is ruining and poorly coaching this kid..Thats what people forget he’s still a kid. Mark.my words if and when and lands.on another team he will make the Glaciers looks like incompetent owners when it comes to building a winning team
(as if they need any help with that)
October 30th, 2018 at 9:17 am
Those guys are legends… Winston is not.
Ok so Manning threw picks… He’s a legend with playoff experience and super bowl champ.
Just cuz u love Winston doesn’t mean he’s any good.
October 30th, 2018 at 9:23 am
Winston pass yards are inflated…
Interceptions and fumbles lead to points for opponent.
Bucs play from behind. Abandon run. Pass pass pass.
Garbage time yards. Sure he likes 20 yard throws but he’s blinded by his ego. He can’t hit deep ball throws and the turnovers won’t stop. Even with his glove on the groping hand he’s still no saint
I think the team has lost interest in listening to his rah rah rah stuff too. He is America’s Worst Quarterback former Pro Bowl alternate from bucs fans online voting.
October 30th, 2018 at 9:24 am
Brandon Perna YouTube channel that’s good sports
Week 8 highlights takes a poke at Joe’s…. Ryan Fitzpatrick America’s Quarterback
October 30th, 2018 at 9:26 am
Good Post WD40 Says:
” Joe…I use the eye test. And it doesn’t take 20/20 vision to see this offense just feels different with Fitz. We’ve seen how consistently dangerous and exciting this team looks on one side of the ball with him behind quarterback, and with the same exact personnel, it looks and feels like something else with the other guy – chaotic”
Unsure what Joe is seeing and many of you fans that have this obsessive opinion that “Jameis is the future”. As the uncensored podcast host would say, “f the future, we need to win now”. The offensive is more efficient with Fitz, has less turnovers and more scores. So how does Joe and others want to wait out “developing a player for the future”.
The tryout is ending, lets face it, many, including myself expected the urgency after the suspension for Jameis to be able to win at least 7 of those 12 games he started. The way he is playing he’ll be lucky to win 2 or 3.
Unacceptable for a fan base that has expected their 2016 #1 draft pick to be a top QB. Other than yards thrown his stats are below average. Especially scoring offense and time of possession. Very unimpressive and many other less expensive quarterbacks (see Ryan Fitzpatrick) can be effective with the WRs on this team.
Bottom line, you build a team with a young QB like Rams, Eagles and KC have done so that you have cap space to have depth on both lines and playmakers everywhere else. Unless you are New England or New Orleans, sinking top dollar into their QB’s isn’t the way of the league.
With Jameis due a starters salary and guaranteed money, he doesn’t have the resume. You may say why did Alex Smith or Kirt Cousins get so much money when they are simply good quarterbacks, reason, they didn’t lose games for their teams and had them competitive year in year out, unlike the Bucs.
October 30th, 2018 at 9:27 am
I smell a slightly better Trent Dilfer or David Carr in regards to JW.
I would say he is a poor man’s Mathew Stafford right now.
October 30th, 2018 at 9:42 am
Jay-miss lost the locker room
Plain and simple
October 30th, 2018 at 9:51 am
You just made the point I have been making over the past month. Do you want the team to give Jay-Miss the $100+ million dollar contract if all he will ever be is Andy Dalton?
Many Bengals fans have buyers remorse over Dalton. He’s a nice player but he’ll never lead that team anywhere. He’s a franchise QB because of the contract, not because he’s great.
October 30th, 2018 at 9:52 am
D-Rome:
This is very simple: You have outs built into the contract. CYA.
October 30th, 2018 at 9:56 am
Joe, Sometimes I think you are just a Jameis homer, but, then you do make some very good points like here..(where will we find a QB??)….so hang in there. My guess is #3 plays again after we are absolutely done for the year..just my guess. In the meantime, go have a couple beers in the velvet lined lounge of the Vero Beach Ramada Inn and try to relax. Let’s see how it plays out. Should be interesting. Keep cranking em out dude!
October 30th, 2018 at 9:59 am
Koetter will be fired next week, again 1 week too late, just like Mike Smith (who should have been fired last year). He is a dead man walking, he is just taking Winston with him. Do you idiots really think that he is the only QB to throw 4 picks in a game? Fitz is what he is a serviceable backup QB- 14 years- 7 teams. Avg 1 team every 2 years- Morons. They should trade Desean Jackson today- he, like Me-shawn ruins locker rooms. Dude touches the ball 4-8 times a game and that is only if you hit him in the breadbasket. QB touches the ball about 70 times a game but he turns impressionable young guys against Winston because they are having a hard time connecting and “he isn’t getting his”. If I were the Glazers, I would have fired Koetter when I fired Smitty, trade D Jax for a 3rd or higher if there is a sucker out there and started Jameis this week to see how he responds to the worst game of his career. Instead, there is now a full on QB controversy which has and will divide the locker room. If Jameis can’t do it after this year, then you trade him or cut him after this year. This year is pretty much over because Dirk Koetter is still our head coach. If you think he can inspire a team to win, you are dumber than you look- JMO
October 30th, 2018 at 10:16 am
I love all these guys who are worried Winston will go to some other team and have success. He may do but the bottom line is that he hasn’t worked out here and we all know what the definition of insanity is – doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result!!!
Think of it as having a beautiful wife who is terrible at doing anything a wife is supposed to do/be. Do you keep her knowing she will never change and in fear that once you divorce her she will be the perfect wife for someone else?? Life is to short to be miserable all the time. Dump Winston and move on and lets be happy for our future!!!
October 30th, 2018 at 10:20 am
If Jay Miss succeeds somewhere else, God bless him.
IMHO, that’s not going to happen.
Time to move on from the Tallahassee Dumpster Fire.
October 30th, 2018 at 10:25 am
Customer 87 said it best. Joe is losing cred
October 30th, 2018 at 10:44 am
All those other legends had made vast improvement by year 4. JW is moving backward.
October 30th, 2018 at 11:18 am
Brees had a worse turnover ratio than Jameis Winston did when Brees was Winston’s age. And then, in his third year in the league, Brees evolved and never looked back.
“Manning had a worse turnover ratio than Winston did when Manning was Winston’s age. And then, in his third year in the league, Manning evolved and never looked back.
Favre had a worse turnover ratio than Winston did when Favre was Winston’s age. And then, in his third year in the league, Favre evolved and never looked back.
Stafford had a worse turnover ratio than Winston did when Stafford was Winston’s age. And then, in his third year in the league, Stafford evolved and never looked back.” Trevor Sikkema
October 30th, 2018 at 12:23 pm
Nonsense comparison.
Different league, totally different defense rules.
October 30th, 2018 at 1:09 pm
Temco,
There’s a problem with the age comparison. Jameis was drafted at a younger age than everyone you’ve listed. So the comparison is not legitimate. The more accurate comparison has to be made by years as a starter, Favre in his 3rd season won the league MVP award.
Jameis is in his 4th year as a starter.
Also, if you consider all the QB’S who entered the league at the same age as Winston the number is 9. 9 in the entire span of the NFL. So what He has accomplished by age has to be tempered by the total number of eligible competitors.
The only real comparison is years as a starter and then that’s offset by the new league rules regarding passing and the current Era vs any previous era.
Marino was league MVP Yr 3. Favre the same. Is Winston even in consideration. …no.
So there’s no value in the age or compared to these guys of a different Era type non sense
October 30th, 2018 at 5:27 pm
Jameis is a baseball pitcher. look at his throwing motion and how the football sails on him. This is why he over throws and INT’s. He either needs to work with someone to establish touch on the ball and mechanics or go back to baseball.
October 30th, 2018 at 6:47 pm
These stats are nothing. Years ago, the qb’s could get away with int’s because the other team couldn’t score so quick. Now they do so YOU CAN’T TURN THE BALL OVER ANYMORE! PERIOD. ITS LOSER MENTALITY!
October 30th, 2018 at 10:53 pm
Pete and LUV
Thanks guys for bringing some facts to this place. Well done,
GP PUHLEEZE! Why should ANYBODY have Jameis back?
It’s a serious question!!! Whose back has Jameis ever had?
Jimbos…forcing him to suspend him for FHITP…embarrassing Jimbo and FSU by getting into disagreements on the sideline including the infamous national broadcast where Jimbo finally had to get in JW’s face and tell his to sit down and STFU.
How about Licht and Koetter? They take a chance after ALLLL the off field shenanigans and JW has their back by hitting a bar in Arizona…getting blackout drunk…by his recollection while hanging with Trouble Darby and a convicted rapist.
Seriously….is there anybody here stupid enough to invite that kind of PR disaster. Even if he didn’t have that infamous Uber ride the potential for an incident was huge and again…just ONE year after Licht/Koetter/the Glazers had JW’s back.
Jameis deserves the same consideration of his back that he gives everyone else.