Jameis > Alex Smith
July 13th, 2018
Better than a seasoned vet.
Joe has been flooded the past couple of weeks with questions about what quarterback the Bucs should trade for and/or should draft in the wake of America’s Quarterback’s three-game sentence handed down by NFL strongman Roger Goodell.
It seems the same people just cannot wait to run Pro Bowler Jameis Winston out of town.
Well, if Joe suggested the Bucs should somehow acquire Redskins quarterback Alex Smith, those fans wanting a new quarterback would jump for joy.
Chase Stuart bluntly believes if Bucs fans like Alex Smith, then they should really, really want to keep Jameis. Stuart, who runs the intelligent FootballPerspective.com, wasn’t so much mocking Smith, but believing Jameis is way, way further down the line toward becoming a top-shelf quarterback than Smith was at the same age.
@fbgchase: Smith was born in ’84, drafted first overall in ’05, was useless from ’05 to ’08. Jameis Winston was born in ’94, drafted first overall in ’15, and it’s now ’18. And no matter what happens this year, Winston’s been far, far, far better through three/four seasons than Smith.
The way some folks go bananas about Jameis and think he had such a horrible year last year, you would think Jameis is the next “Son of Bob,” Brian Griese. Or worse!
Do people have that shallow of a memory bank they don’t remember Jameis getting nine wins in 2016, his second year in the NFL? And Jameis had the Bucs in the lead in fourth quarters last year only to witness that shameful excuse for a defense last year cough up wins.
Last Joe checked, Jameis wasn’t playing defensive end, wasn’t playing corner and sure as hell wasn’t kicking.
July 13th, 2018 at 8:16 am
That’s an easy answer joe. The fans that don’t want jameis here never wanted him in the first place. I’m guessing this stems from the fact that he played college ball at a school many bucs fans love to hate. Students at the other schools would never dare take a hookup on some crab legs or stand atop a table in the student union quoting inappropriate memes.
You forgot to add that Alex Smith was the best deep ball passer last year, after being known as someone who couldn’t throw the deep ball. At least jameis has the next decade to stay on par.
July 13th, 2018 at 8:23 am
Winston is a fumbler. Winston is a poor decision maker. Winston is exactly who he has shown us he is. A loosing qb with flash and sizzle. Would anyone trust him with the game on the line? Of course not. He’s had so many chances in close games to deliver and can’t. Believe your eyes people and stop wanting him to be better than he is. He’s Josh Freeman and that’s all. An exciting back up level qb. The sooner we swallow that the sooner we can move on and not waste more years waiting for this guy to be something he will never be. Go Bucs!
July 13th, 2018 at 8:23 am
Bigtime Jameis supporter until this latest bs and it being less than a year of being an NFL qb and then pair that w his stupid moves on the field, i just think its time to get rid of licht koetter and jameis get rid of the stench, maybe jameis turns into steve young, hope he does, but not in tampa
July 13th, 2018 at 8:26 am
Seems like joe does not remember 2016!!!!! The “real” fans know the defense won 9 games!!!!!!!
July 13th, 2018 at 8:29 am
I just want wins and I just dont see it with JW. Sorry
July 13th, 2018 at 8:29 am
The Buc Realist. You must be suffering from dementia if you don’t remember that Jameis significantly contributed to those 9 wins.
Gtfoh you Jameis hating, Koetter loving nutcase.
July 13th, 2018 at 8:31 am
No. A lot of people just don’t worship him as a messiah like you do.
Evidence being doing 9 out of 10 articles just about Jameis. The rest of the team not important?
He is average to good qb. But he is viewed as the next Aaron Rodgers here. Seems that teams got enough tape on him after putting up huge passing yards early ;dbs admit to wanting to play against him so he needs to take game to next level. He is a buc so you have to root for him the best way you can.
July 13th, 2018 at 8:32 am
JW is our QB and will be here next year as well and he is better and more talented than 70% of the QB’s in the NFL. I stand behind him as long as he is playing for the Bucs.
July 13th, 2018 at 8:33 am
They are nowhere near the same skillset nor era. It is an awful comparison.
Secondly, it’s ludicrous to keep acting like Jameis had nothing to do with going 5-11. Yeah the defense coughed up some wins, so too did mister Fumble Winston.
I’ll re-phrase the question for fun:
Which QB would you rather have RIGHT NOW?
Jameis Winston or Alex Smith
By far Smith>Winston.
Could Winston reach the same level as Smith in a few years? Maybe.
July 13th, 2018 at 8:37 am
@Joe … “Do people have that shallow of a memory bank they don’t remember Jameis getting nine wins in 2016, his second year in the NFL?” Love the way you phrase some questions Joe. JAMEIS got 9 wins in 2016, not the Bucs’ T-E-A-M got 9 wins. It’s amazing to me how certain folks kick the daylights out of Scapegoat Smitty & the Bucs’ defense but conveniently forget to mention little ‘details’ such as the Bucs’ OFFENSE scoring LESS THAN 20 points in 5 of those 9 wins (17, 19, 14, 16, 17 to be precise). Awesome offensive performances!
And please make sure NOT to credit the Bucs’ DEFENSE with holding opponents to LESS THAN 20 points in 7 games that year, all of which we won (14, 17, 17, 10, 17, 5, 11, 16 to be precise). Yup, IT’S ALL ABOUT JAMEIS !!! (BTW Joe, Bucs’ fans apparently aren’t the only ones with “shallow memory banks”).
July 13th, 2018 at 8:38 am
Has Alex Smith groped anyone? No? Yeah, I’d much rather have Smith.
July 13th, 2018 at 8:39 am
@Bucsfanman
By my count the defense/kicking game combined to choke away a minimum of 6 games in which Jameis played well enough to win. Versus the Patriots, at Buffalo, at Green Bay, at Carolina, at Detroit, and Versus Atlanta on Monday night.
Jameis would have won at least 5 of the aforementioned games if not for having the worst Defense and worst place kickers in the NFL last season. That’s not even debatable.
July 13th, 2018 at 8:41 am
@Defense Rules
Fake News. Jameis made clutch throw after clutch throw during that win streak. Constantly throwing dimes on 3rd down to keep drives alive, and we won the TOP battle in each and everyone of those games. With no running game to speak of.
July 13th, 2018 at 8:42 am
Alex Smith was a bum his first 5 seasons in the league until Harbaugh got to SF and resurrected his career. Then Kap came along and took his job and they sent Smith to KC to work with another QB guru in Andy Reid. I’d take Jameis any day over Alex Smith.
July 13th, 2018 at 8:45 am
see you guys are unbelievably dumb. Especially you, Dan.
Some days it’s just not entertaining reading this articles when they’re filled with a bunch of ridiculous takes. I love this site but man this dilemma has filled it with pessismsm.
Can’t wait for the season so we can talk about something other than how much some of the idiot fans hate Jameis.
July 13th, 2018 at 8:49 am
This site is getting too watered down with Jamie’s BS. I’ll come back when camp begins.
Joe thanks you for your patronage. And btw, there’s plenty of non-Jameis stuff here.–Joe
July 13th, 2018 at 8:53 am
So Schwiffty, you’re saying that Jameis’ 15 or so fumbles and bevy of inaccurate passes had NOTHING to do with the Bucs going 5-11?
I’ve already acknowledged the kicking and defensive failures. You’re kidding yourself if you don’t think Jameis had anything to do with the TEAM going 5-11.
July 13th, 2018 at 8:53 am
Thank You Joe
July 13th, 2018 at 8:53 am
WillieG. Newsflash: No one cares.
July 13th, 2018 at 8:54 am
@schwiftybuc
Those 6 games?????? avg pts per game for those 6 are 20.5 pts pg!!!!!!!
And 13 Turnovers!!!!!!!!!
Defense did not dominate enough to win, But the “real” don’t think the offense did enough to win those either!!!!!!!!!!!!
July 13th, 2018 at 8:56 am
@Bucsfanman
First, at least 7-8 of those fumbles were bad snaps from Ali which were attributed to Jameis. Second, not saying that Jameis doesn’t need to clean up his play and improve in several areas. But he for sure played well enough to win the games I mentioned if not for the sheer ineptitude of Nick Cholk and the worst defense in the NFL during the 2017 season.
July 13th, 2018 at 8:58 am
Alex hasn’t had to play with the rotten defense that Jameis has had to play with.
Realist what are you smoking to think the defense won 9 games?
July 13th, 2018 at 8:58 am
Smith had different offensive coordinators every year I think for about the first five years of his career. Last year he was in the MVP conversation…but let’s keep grasping at straws.
July 13th, 2018 at 9:00 am
@The Buc Realist.
The “non-idiot fans” saw the defense get manhandled and exploited on nearly every snap last season.
July 13th, 2018 at 9:01 am
And most people would rather have Marcus Mariotta’s 13 TDs and 15 Int.
Smmmmhhh
July 13th, 2018 at 9:03 am
Jameis is fun (and sometimes funny) to watch.
Isn’t that why we’re here? He gives us a chance to win and this is by far the best squad he’s had to work with.
Anybody who wants to blow it up has lost the plot.
July 13th, 2018 at 9:05 am
@schwiftyBuc
and yet they schemed and still held a 23.1 pts against avg in those 6 games YOU named that the offense did not do enough to win!!!!!!! You want to know what does not help a defense!!!! Those 13 turnovers in the games you named!!!!!
Every coach in the NFL will tell you, with that many turnovers, they did not deserve to win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
July 13th, 2018 at 9:10 am
@The Buc Realist
When you play the raw averages and statistics game, you can twist the numbers to say whatever you want them to.
If you actually go back and watch what transpired in those games, you’ll see exactly what i’m saying, if not for the utter incompetence of the defense and kicking game, Jameis and the offense did enough to win.
Wasn’t your entire defense behind not firing Dork Koetter based around the fact that the “real” problem with this team last year was in the trenches and on defense? Now suddenly the “real” problem was Jameis?
Brett Favre lead the league in turnovers practically every year he was a starting QB, yet somehow his team managed to win. It’s almost like turnovers by themselves aren’t the sole determining factor behind what team wins the game.
July 13th, 2018 at 9:15 am
[Cooler for you. Calling any Bucs player a sexual predator is breaking Joe’s laws here. Sad that it to come from a long-time commenter. Joe]
July 13th, 2018 at 9:16 am
Worst defense of America’s Choir Boy yet.
Alex Smith isn’t a turnover toucher of women who drinks to much and lies about it.
America’s Choir Boy is.
July 13th, 2018 at 9:19 am
@Schwiftybuc
Brett Favre would usually out score his turnovers!!!!!! Jw3 did not!!!!!!!
the problems last year were Turnovers, pass rush, and redzone scoring!!!!
The roster was not good enough and not enough depth to over come all the defensive injuries!!!!!!
and nothing was twisted!!!! Those were the games you said that the offense did enough!!!!!! The “real” fans are saying that it was not enough!!!!!! Turnovers and Points are very important of game outcome!!!!!!!!!
Just because JW3 scored 1 touchdown in a 4th quarter does not make a scenario that the offense did enough!!!!!!!!!!!
July 13th, 2018 at 9:26 am
And the most disingenuous poster on JBF continues his string of BS posts.
Not gonna continue arguing with you, you know I’m right.
July 13th, 2018 at 9:31 am
Brett Favre only had 2 losing seasons
July 13th, 2018 at 9:32 am
I’m shocked the bucs would pick up jameis’ option after costing them all those games. Then they sign and draft replacements for the d line, secondary, kicking game, and run game. Crazy that licht thinks any of those things could be the problem in getting w’s for the team to eat.
July 13th, 2018 at 9:33 am
Nonsense
July 13th, 2018 at 9:39 am
@joe
Thank you for filtering Pete’s comment; I’m sure it was mostly nonsense
July 13th, 2018 at 9:41 am
None of my posts have been filtered.
July 13th, 2018 at 9:43 am
@pete
Lol
Of course that would go over your head
July 13th, 2018 at 9:44 am
D.R.
You get busted again today for bringing FACTS to the debate. Of course many here…perhaps because of their political persuasion…consider FACTS they do not want to hear as fake news.
Schwifty
Certainly respect your opinion but it’s just that without any FACTS.
And PUHLEEZE….FSU grads you are EMBARRASSING yourselves..at least the ones with the HUGE persecution complex. The reason we are upset with Jameis is because of the school he attended? Bwaahaaahaaaa
There is a hard core of Gator and Nole fans here along with everybody else.
I get that the Gator-Nole rivalry is intense..but you guys flatter yourselves if you think it’s the major deal for most Buc fans.
I do not represent all the posters here and perhaps not even the majority.
But I think my experience is the same as MOST folks here…even Gator fans!
Anybody who wasn’t at least nervous about drafting Jameis lives in a cave. And look what happened. He proved the doubters correct…and it wasn’t Kate’s fault it was TOTALLY Jameis fault. Partying at 3AM with Darby and Banks and getting blackout drunk is NOT the way an appreciative player would have treated the Bucs and their fans.
Nervous or not because I LOVE offense I was very excited to draft Jameis. I thought then and still believe he has more talent than MM…not as a leader where I realize he’s been totally OVERSOLD…but under center Jameis showed flashes of brilliance and indicated we should give him a chance based solely on his talent. I could care less where he went to school.
But he betrayed his team and teammates confirming his complete lack of judgement.
I do not hate Jameis…wish him the best…but I hope you can forgive me for having lost any trust in his judgement or leadership. Sad because I thought he has enough ability that if he paid attention and kept his nose clean he could have been a franchise QB.
BTW I think all Gator fans would concede to Nole fans that Jalen Rose is far far better than VHG….it’s not about where you went to school…it’s about what you put on the video during games.
July 13th, 2018 at 9:46 am
How close were the Bucs really to a winning season last year? At 5-11, on the surface, it would seem like miles.
But the truth is far different.
Last year, Jameis lead the Bucs to four comebacks to take the lead, only to have the defense give it up at the end. Had the defense not blown it, we would have been 9-7.
But that’s not all. Kicking cost us two games before the Bucs brought in Patrick Murray. So, in addition to the defense, that cost us 2. Flip those into wins?
11-5 would have been our record. And that’s with a QB playing injured.
The offense did it’s part. It was defense and special teams that did us in.
July 13th, 2018 at 9:46 am
Lmao Westminster there’s no way you believe yourself is there?
What is wrong with you guys? Jameis had the second highest qbr when returning from injury next to Tom Brady in the last 5 games. That injury was worse than you guys comprehend apparently. The defense was trash. It’s not a debate. It was 2nd to worst in the league. There was no pass rush. I mean Julio had what like 250 yards? The kicking game was an issue. Doug Martin averaged 2.9 ypc. 2nd worst in the league.
These are all facts. You cannot debate them. But you’re gonna pretend to believe the biggest issue was Jameis’s turnovers? Sure that was a problem but do you guys not see the correlation between those and the lack of a run game and the inability for the defense to hold a lead? He was doing too much. It’s evident.
I just can’t comprehend why some of you cannot see how high Jameis’s ceiling is. It’s obvious this guy is going to be very good and the repaired run game and d line should pay immediate dividends.
I wish I could debate with you guys face to face because some of you guys would get trumped. I would embarrass half of you.
July 13th, 2018 at 9:47 am
@Bonzai
For once I completely agree with you. Never thought this day would come.
July 13th, 2018 at 9:48 am
SChwifty
Jameis tried to throw a pass while falling down in Green bay that resulted in a 62 yard TD rumble by a 300 lb lineman. Green Bay would not have even been in the game if not for this bad decision. THe fumbles that jameis recovers lose a play and often stall drives.
July 13th, 2018 at 9:50 am
LOL…..@realist just got his skirt pulled up again….lol….
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!…#PRESSURESONTHECOACHES!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!
July 13th, 2018 at 9:51 am
The Buc Realist
Regardless of those turnovers, Jameis still brought the team from behind to take the lead. Four times. Defense blew it.
And you cannot blame it on injuries when the offense was just as injured.
Not to mention it is realistic to assume that Winston’s fumbles were a result of his injured shoulder and horrible offensive line play (and it was horrible enough to almost completely rebuild it).
July 13th, 2018 at 9:52 am
@Buc Bonzai
How can you say, The offense did their job?????? Ask Head Coach Koetter if the offense did their Job!!!!!!!
Only 13 teams scored less than Tampa!!!!!!
Only 5 teams gave the ball away more than Tampa!!!!!!!
The “real” fans know that the offense did not do enough last year to win!!!!!!!!!
July 13th, 2018 at 9:53 am
why does it mater that Jameis thru 3 years is better than Alex his 1st 3 years?
Jameis was better last year than Brett Farve was his last year with the Vikes, So if you like Brett Farve then you will love Jameis.
July 13th, 2018 at 9:55 am
@Bob in Valrico
You know what else happened in that game? With 6 minutes left in the 4th quarter, on 3rd and goal, Jameis threw a laser to Cam Brate for a touchdown to take the lead.
Then the defense let hapless Brett Hundley march down the field while eating up the clock, which let the Packers kick a gimme field goal and send the game into OT. And then the defense let the packers drive all the way down the field again let Jamaal Williams run 25 yards untouched for the game winning touchdown.
If the defense wasn’t so Soft we would have won. Simple as that.
July 13th, 2018 at 10:01 am
Jameis hanging with KW2 still?
July 13th, 2018 at 10:03 am
Still nonsense
July 13th, 2018 at 10:03 am
Kind of a cherry picked comparison. What Alex Smith did as rookie doesn’t have much bearing now, the point is he PROGRESSED in his career and we haven’t seen much progression for Jameis. The best ability is availabilty, and right now Jameis ain’t available for a nonsense reason that we, as fans, were assured would never happen. I’m going to guess and say no team that Alex Smith played for ever had to worry about what Alex was doing in his off time. He really has been pretty good the last couple of years for the Chiefs. saw them in the playoffs, didn’t see us.
July 13th, 2018 at 10:05 am
aint no woulda coulda shoulda’s in football…..you play the game and either you win or lose….
hell, you can go back to every team and say if, wouldva, coulda, shoulda, and every team would be undefeated…..
we played, we lost 11games and folks want to make excuses….only losers care about a 9win season 2 years ago that didn’t even get us to the playoffs…..
stop the excuses….raise the expectations…..
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!….#PRESSURESONTHECOACHES!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!
July 13th, 2018 at 10:12 am
Let me tell you why the defense of Jameis and the offense at the expense of defense and special teams bothers me (like you care!):
We all KNOW how horrid the defense was.
We all know how HORRID the special teams were.
Somehow, however, we want to brush aside the ineptitude of a loaded offense and blame the defense when they can’t hold a team after costly turnovers.
I don’t disagree with the notion of a failed defense and special teams. But, don’t you think that by not turning over the football and scoring and/or using clock is a benefit to the defense? Perhaps the defense is not tasked with holding off a last minute scoring drive because we’re up more than a TD? Perhaps instead of attempting FGs, the offense scores TDs?
Maybe I’m crazy, but how does defense contribute to those inefficiencies? That’s on the offense.
The bottom line is that this is a TEAM game, say it again TEAM! When the TEAM is 5-11, that’s not solely on the defense, special teams, or offense. It is on the TEAM as a whole. Don’t assign blame to one part when all the parts have failed, that’s my only contention. We have to be fair in our critique. This TEAM stunk last year, period!
July 13th, 2018 at 10:13 am
Never put Winston in the same discussion as Alex Smith. We all know Winston isn’t on his level.
July 13th, 2018 at 10:14 am
if the offense didn’t do enough to win last year, what the hell did the defense do?…..lol….they were ranked at the bottom….lol….
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!….#PRESSURESONTHECOACHES!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!
July 13th, 2018 at 10:20 am
@brad
He did so well the chiefs decided to trade to firsts and a third to draft his replacement
I wonder how good the chiefs defense and running game had anything to do with their/his success
July 13th, 2018 at 10:20 am
Alex Smith is a playoff winner
July 13th, 2018 at 10:22 am
813- Coaching my brother! Coaching is definitely to blame on all sides of the football.
But hey, don’t worry. They’ll get it right this year, right?!!! My inner skeptic disagrees.
July 13th, 2018 at 10:25 am
Joe
You are in the wrong business
You need to sell cars
July 13th, 2018 at 10:33 am
“Alex Smith is a playoff winner” absolutely but the turnover toucher isn’t eve a playoff loser.
July 13th, 2018 at 10:40 am
Alex Smith wasn’t tracking down young women and violating them, but I’m sure this post won’t remain because of your bias.
July 13th, 2018 at 10:42 am
Red Flag City, USA called and wants to ask a question. Some people can be beaten in the head with a hammer over and over with red flag facts and still won’t get it. The Glazers have allowed One Buc to becoming a laughingstock of red flags, it’s fitting a big ass red one flys above their practice field.
July 13th, 2018 at 10:46 am
Alex Smith has won 2 of 7 playoff games
2011 s.f. Defense was ranked 4th
2015 k.c. Defense was ranked 3rd
I’m still shocked k.c. Traded the proven winner
July 13th, 2018 at 10:46 am
Has anyone actually considered how Jameis got to his fumble count of 15? Feel free to review all of them in the below link with video of each and tell me how this is a major Jameis problem. Let’s see, poor Oline play, new center (Marpet), several CFL level RBs/WRs (Barber, Reedy). Not to mention how many of these fumbles did “he” actually lose?
https://www.reddit.com/r/buccaneers/comments/7npjlh/ocbutterfingers_a_look_at_jameis_winstons_15/
July 13th, 2018 at 10:49 am
@ah
The laughing stock of red flags is Cincinnati by a mile
July 13th, 2018 at 10:50 am
I remember the Buccaneers getting nine wins due to a five game win streak on the strength of their defense. I also remember the Bucs having eight games that season where they did not score more than 21 points, two of them where they only scored 7 points.
July 13th, 2018 at 11:01 am
StPete, Realist, Bob in Valrico & Bucsfanman … Whodathunkit? Joe sets the table with his “Do people have that shallow of a memory bank they don’t remember Jameis getting nine wins in 2016, his second year in the NFL?” and voila … the fight is on. Seems like ‘some’ JBFers at least try to consider the T-E-A-M aspect of football, while to some others, “IT’S ALL ABOUT JAMEIS’.
I noticed also how the discussion about 2016 (Bucs 9-7 obviously solely attributable to Jameis) turned quickly to 2017 (Bucs 5-11 solely because of the defense, but we could’ve gone 11-5 & won the SuperBowl if only the defense had played better). That same 2017 defense caused 26 turnovers (giving the ball to the Bucs’ offense) while the Bucs’ offense committed 27 turnovers (often losing us points, costing us field position, and putting the ‘terrible Bucs’ defense’ back on the field). No mention either that the ‘sorry Bucs’ defense’ sucked hind teet for at least 3 years in the draft AND in free agency while the vaunted Bucs’ offense got all the priority. But hey, offense got DJax; defense got Swaggy. Who could ask for anything more?
July 13th, 2018 at 11:01 am
I will just say this, those folks that look at a team that had the 32nd ranked defense in the NFL, and the 27th ranked rushing attack in the NFL and the 4th ranked passing offense in the NFL and want to point to the passing game as THE problem really should find a new hobby, cause watching football isn’t for you.
July 13th, 2018 at 11:06 am
@ndog
Don’t confuse the haters with facts about football
They’re only worried about off the field allegations from years past
July 13th, 2018 at 11:14 am
Man to say Smith is better than Winston is a joke. Y’all hate this guy. Smith been in the league for 12 years. Why do y’all haters n Why do the media loved to compare Winston with quarter backs that been in the league for years???? He’s only been in the league for 3 years and was hurt last year out the 3 . This is the first time I have ever seen heard this . And it’s like cause he been in the league for 3 years then he should be just as good as Tom Brady, Drew Drees by now . You never here them do say that about mm, Derrick Carr, Staford, or Ryan Tannhill but Winston should be mvp or a super bowl qb. But when you bring up race then you say race card but look at the facts.
July 13th, 2018 at 11:15 am
Bucsfanman Says:
July 13th, 2018 at 10:22 am
813- Coaching my brother! Coaching is definitely to blame on all sides of the football.
BINGO!!!!
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!….#PRESSURESONTHECOACHES!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!
July 13th, 2018 at 11:43 am
Jameis’s potential is through the roof but after 3 years he still hasn’t gotten us to the playoffs, the question is how much longer are the Bucs brass going to put up with the lack of success before they are done with him?
July 13th, 2018 at 11:46 am
Last time I checked, Alex Smith is not going around grabbing crutches. Or shouting homophobic obesenities.
July 13th, 2018 at 11:50 am
@obp
What qb has made the playoffs with no defense kicker or run game?
July 13th, 2018 at 11:52 am
The Buc Realist Says
“How can you say, The offense did their job?”
They may have only been middle of the road good, but they played well enough to win. You can say different all you want, but they won 5 games and the defense cost them 4 comebacks. Those are the facts. They would have been 9-7 at the very least, had defense done their job.
The simple fact that the defense got an overhaul is all the proof needed.
July 13th, 2018 at 11:53 am
He’s not the best qb ever(Aaron Rodgers) but blaming him for no playoffs is crazy. What happened the 7 straight years before he was drafted?
July 13th, 2018 at 11:56 am
Joe, when did we sign Bernie Mac?
I didn’t know he played QB.
July 13th, 2018 at 12:01 pm
@westminster: what team has made the playoffs when their offense averages 6 points in the first half and 12 points by the end of the third quarter?
July 13th, 2018 at 12:05 pm
@WestminsterCo – and don’t forget that the year before JW got here, the Bucs were the worst team in the league. Expecting a young QB to take the team from DFL in the NFL to the playoffs in 3 seasons is a tall order. Bottom line is that no young QB can. It takes a team of players and coaches to turn things around.
Jameis has had some head scratching moments in the field, and some really concerning moments off the field and on the sideline, but he’s been more solution than problem since he’s been here. Time will tell if he will continue to progress on and off the field. For the first time, I have to say my confidence is shaken. The Bucs are giving him a chance to redeem himself. Let’s all hope he does.
July 13th, 2018 at 12:08 pm
JW does indeed have enough skill to throw some nice passes and win games. But let’s face it, he throws just as many passes slightly off target, too high, behind the receiver on crossing routes, etc. then add in a few completely boneheaded plays per game and stir in his stupid decisions on and off the field and what do you really have? A guy with talent who is unpredictable, clearly has impulse control issues with a shady history and potentially criminal acts. In other words, NOT the kind of player you want to trust with the keys to your franchise. This is a decision they made in 2015 to give him a try and now it’s time for the Bucs to cut the cord and realize they made a mistake in trusting this character. Will they? Doubt it.
July 13th, 2018 at 12:23 pm
@HomerSimpson
The premise you assert is preposterous and clearly has no basis in fact when you consider for the past 2 years Jameis has had a 60+% completion rating.
July 13th, 2018 at 12:27 pm
Not true. He’s got great wide receivers who bail him out.
July 13th, 2018 at 12:32 pm
@951
The 2017 bills averaged under 18/ game. The bucs averaged almost 22
July 13th, 2018 at 12:33 pm
21*
July 13th, 2018 at 12:58 pm
@HomerSimspon
………. You do realize that besides Mike Evans, Jameis has had almost no elite talent to work with until last season.
Man as much as I hate to admit it, Joe is right. Bucs fans have ridiculously short memories.
July 13th, 2018 at 1:09 pm
How can anyone say that any aspect of this team played well when we were 5-11?! I’m just trying to wrap my mind around this. If this is so, then Ryan Fitzpatrick deserves much more credit for going 2-1.
July 13th, 2018 at 1:13 pm
@Bucsfanman
Is that a joke? So players can’t perform well if there team loses? So I suppose that means that Doug Martin didn’t play well when he rushed for 1,400+ yards and was the 2nd leading rusher in 2015?
The statement you just made is profoundly stupid. Holy crap…
July 13th, 2018 at 1:21 pm
@bucsfanman
Good job Ryno, got the wins against the dolphins and jets. Jay cutler and josh mccown lol
July 13th, 2018 at 1:40 pm
Smith was ineffective those beginning years because he was unavailable. Shoulder injuries plagued the beginning of his career. This team is built to win now! The question is are we losing because of-, or in spite of Jameis?
July 13th, 2018 at 1:52 pm
Who the hell brought up Alex Smith?
That’s not even a possibility?!?!
Very strange.
I do not want to run Jameis out of town.
AND
What I really don’t want is the team relying on Ryan Fitzpatrick for essential 20% of the season with Ryan Griffin as his backup. That’s insanity. That’s a firable offense.
Fitz has been in the league forever and has NEVER…
Let me emphasize that…
NEVER EVER EVER
led a team to the playoffs or won a meaningful game.
He has choked whenever the pressure has been at its highest.
Why then are we sending him out there for the toughest opening 3 game strecth any team has ever had?
One good reason… I’ll wait.
There is not one. What you do is go get a guy who can challenge Fitz right now. Someone who can actually beat out Fitz. Then, when Jameis returns you have that same guy on the wings keeping Jameis in line and applying that healthy pressure.
July 13th, 2018 at 1:59 pm
WestminsterCoBucsFan … Interesting that you discredit the Bucs’ wins against the (6-10) Dolphins & (5-11) Jets (with Fitz at the helm) but apparently 2 of 3 wins with Jameis at the helm against the (3-13) Giants & (5-11) Bears were well-earned.
Something else that you might look at … the Bucs’ win against the Saints (31-24) to end the season. For one, the Bucs’ defense scored 7 pts in that game on a fumble recovery for a TD. For another, Bucs’ special teams gave up 7 pts on a 106 yard runback by Kamara. An example of how the defense helped the offense (by scoring 7 pts), but got bitten in this case by the S/Ts who coughed up 7 pts (charged against the defense). Oops forgot to mention … Jameis threw THREE INTs in that game. ALL of them were in New Orleans territory. Drives killed, points lost. The score doesn’t always tell the complete story about who did good and who didn’t.
July 13th, 2018 at 2:02 pm
Schwifty- First off, as a first time poster, welcome! Secondly, do you think Doug would trade 1400 yards for a Lombardi trophy? Do you think individual statistics are what matter in football? Unless you’re talking fantasy, they don’t mean squat there tough guy! 5-11 means your TEAM sucks! But please, go ahead and convince yourself that being 4th place in passing yards is something of an accomplishment on a 5-11 team.
Westminster- Did Fitz choose who he played? He beat the team in front of him. It’s that simple. For the record, how many wins did Jameis have last year? 3 right? And played in how many more games with the same o-line, WRs, defense, and ST? And still only got 1 more win eh?!
Laugh if you want to. Facts are facts.
Incidentally, when Fitz is on the field, he doesn’t face the other teams’ QBs. Just thought you should know since you rolled out QBs names and not defenders like Mo Wilkerson, Leonard Williams, Cam Wake, or Suh.
Oh, and also, welcome to the site!
July 13th, 2018 at 2:08 pm
The Tampa Bay Buccaneers scored 335 points for the season. Only 237 points were scored while Jameis Winston was the QB (Fitz had three starts plus half of Arizona game) for an average of 18.96 ppg, despite all of those “weapons for Winston”. Did you know that the Bucs’ wins were agains the 5-11 Bears, and the 3-13 Giants? Maybe the Saints let them win the last game, since it would not affect their playoff position, but would adversely affect the Bucs’ draft position.
tickrdr
P.S. Did you know that despite all of his faults, that MG8 and the Bucs’ offense averaged 19.5 ppg during his ROOKIE year?
July 13th, 2018 at 2:19 pm
@Bucsfanman
I’m not a first time poster. I had to change my name a while back due to poor behavior.
And a lombardi trophy has nothing to do with the statement you made. You said you couldn’t understand how a person could say someone played well on a 5-11 team. That statement is thoroughly idiotic and reflective of a severely flawed perspective about the game of football.
Individuals can play well while the team around them loses, it takes an entire team to win.
July 13th, 2018 at 2:42 pm
Well, welcome back then!
My statement,”How can anyone say that any aspect of this team played well when we were 5-11?!” refers to ASPECTS of the game, offense, defense, special teams and such.
If we’re talking individual stats for 2017, show me who REALLY stood out. Chris Godwin perhaps, Beckwith? Evans had a “down” year, DJax, Brate, OJ? Who stood out?
It takes an entire TEAM to win!!! Just like it takes an entire team to suck when you go 5-11.
I apologize if your OPINION is different from mine but it makes it no more idiotic or flawed than your own.
July 13th, 2018 at 2:49 pm
Defense
I agree, but I don’t think jameis is the primary blame for the losses, especially when the defense and running are the bottom of the league. For the last month all the blame on jameis is ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as saying that Fitz gives us a better chance because he went 2-1.
July 13th, 2018 at 2:55 pm
Is that what we do? Now we’re comparing the first 3 years of quarterbacks drafted a decade apart. This is a different nfl and I’m not saying Winston is average or below average or elite. Winston put a negative spotlight on his career even brighter.
Nothing he’s done good or bad on the field since being drafted will matter. The slate has been wiped clean and this one year will define his career in Tampa. He’ll decide his own fate this year when he returns from suspension
July 13th, 2018 at 3:02 pm
Bfm
Thank you for the welcome, I’ve been following the site for a couple years and enjoy the banter back and forth, but with all the bs about cutting Jameis from so many posters I felt obligated to stand up and say something in his defense.
I think if he relaxes a bit, and doesn’t try to force the game, he can be a top qb in this league. I get that the qb is the most important position, but with so many glaring holes in this team it’s hard for me to put all the blame his way. I hope we can agree on that at least
July 13th, 2018 at 3:38 pm
Sorry BFM, but you haven’t swayed me a bit. The idiocy of your original statement is still very much in tact.
Also, one ASPECT of the 2017 Bucs that you could say did at least relatively well would be, the passing game. It was the 4th ranked passing attack in the league, coincidentally the Bucs also finished as the team with the 4th most 3rd down conversions. A stat which, before Winstons return from injury, the Bucs ranked in the bottom 3rd of the league.
July 13th, 2018 at 3:38 pm
West- I can get down with that. There’s definitely been some overreaction with Jameis IMO.
You can’t place blame solely on anyone in particular when the team goes 5-11. JW’s going to get his shot at becoming the future starter for this franchise come week #4. I hope he lights it up and not because of him specifically, but because I am a Bucs-fan, man! 🙂
July 13th, 2018 at 3:47 pm
Schwifty- With respect, I don’t care about swaying you. I have my opinion and you have yours. 5-11 says the TEAM stunk. There’s literally no way to debate that. Please show me how 5-11 is a good thing.
We’ll agree to disagree.
July 13th, 2018 at 3:54 pm
You know very well I’m not saying that going 5-11 is good. But there can absolutely be certain things that a bad team actually did well.
Another example of this would be the 2013 Bucs. The over-all team was awful. But still was 3rd best in the league with a +10 turnover Margin, and that was without a doubt Lavonte David and Gerald McCoys best season as pro’s.
I don’t care who you are, thinking that just because a team sucked automatically means that it did nothing well is straight up stupid.
July 13th, 2018 at 4:01 pm
You’ve missed the entire point then!
Lets play “would you rather?”:
GMC 10 sacks 6-10 or playoffs?
LVD 300 tackles 7-9 or?
4th ranked passing attack 5-11 or?
If as a fan, and my entire exhausting point, you answered anything other than “playoffs” then that, my friend is THEE dumbest, most idiotic thing I have ever heard.
With that, I have to let this run its course. I am not satisfied as a fan with individual accolades. They’re nice and all, but WINS are what matters. Go ahead and argue your point that it’s not. Wins, brother, wins!
July 13th, 2018 at 4:02 pm
Keep on moving them goalpost’s buddy. What you just said has ZERO, NOTHING, NADA, ZILCH, to do with what I called you out on.
July 13th, 2018 at 4:05 pm
True or False. Specific units and individuals can play well even if they are on a losing team.
If you answered False, then you are sticking to your original statement, and thus, you remain incredibly stupid.
If you answered True, then you agree with what I’ve been saying this whole time and had this long drug out argument over absolutely nothing instead of just admitting that you were wrong to begin with.
July 13th, 2018 at 4:19 pm
One thing I loved about Jameis coming out of college was his Anticipation passes that wowed you a style rarely seen in the NFL. I understood Jameis would take time to learn at the NFL level. His biggest flaw is just how he stare down his receiver and doesn’t scan the field for his second third fourth option. I think a sign of a great quarterback is their ability to scan the field and find the open receiver if not throw it away take a sack just don’t have a turnover. I also thought Jameis threw a lot of risky balls he still does.
July 13th, 2018 at 4:21 pm
Original post: “aspects” of 5-11 team. Your words, “players”.
If you’re going to be an a$$ at least be an intelligent a$$. You’re true colors are showing! Lack of intelligent debate= call people stupid. Yep, another keyboard tough guy loser!
Man, did you show me! 😱
July 13th, 2018 at 4:27 pm
Dude, you just ignored when I said “Specific Units AND Players” in some weak attempt to make it seem like you still have even a semblance of a coherent argument, when you clearly don’t have a leg to stand on.
I know your mad that you’ve been thoroughly dismantled, but just give it a rest already.
July 13th, 2018 at 4:35 pm
Oh, and not to make you feel bad or anything, but even with your use of the word aspects, I’m still 100% right.
Aspect: noun – A particular part or feature of something.
A particular part of a team can be good/ perform well on a losing team. And if you don’t think that, then you are intellectually deficient.
July 13th, 2018 at 4:38 pm
SchwiftyBuc ,
I can see why Joe ran you the first time, You are very combative and are dang sure you are right about everything.
I see both point of views in this argument.
But that does not make you “right.”
July 13th, 2018 at 4:43 pm
@Dave
Lol still being a beta white knight as usual I see. This guy literally said emphatically that no part of a team could do well if they had a losing record.
This is a statement which can, and has been here today, be empirically proven to untrue. This isn’t some kind of nuanced topic that can never be decided upon, it’s just flat out wrong.
July 13th, 2018 at 4:45 pm
*to be untrue*
July 13th, 2018 at 4:45 pm
Don’t you have a toilet to unclog Blake?
July 13th, 2018 at 4:47 pm
I’m not that kind of Plumber Dave. I do commercial plumbing installing new systems.
July 13th, 2018 at 4:48 pm
I wondered where you had gone.
Haven’t heard you crying lately about how NOSBOS owes you money.
Still living with Mom?
July 13th, 2018 at 4:50 pm
LOL. Funnily enough he paid me 150 of the 250 he owed me. And I haven’t lived with my parents at any point that I’ve been posting on this toxic cesspool of a website.
July 13th, 2018 at 4:53 pm
I’ve been posting on this toxic cesspool of a website.
————————————————————————–
And yet, here you are.
I think you like toxic cesspools.
It is your profession after all.
July 13th, 2018 at 5:01 pm
Like I said my specific line of work involves installing shiny new, non-used waste/vent/domestic water systems on commercial construction sites. I just come here for the semi-heated debates with fanboys and dummies. As well the occasionally well-informed discussions with the few reasonable folks that come around here every so often.
If there was more traffic on the other Bucs fan sites I’d probably never come here. After all, since the inception of this site in August 2008, the Bucs haven’t reached the post season. As the years go by, I believe more and more in the JBF curse.
July 13th, 2018 at 5:04 pm
Reading comprehension failed to bridge your inbreeding, apparently, eh schwifty?! Don’t hurt yourself patting yourself in the back there tough guy!
5-11 and Schwifty go together well- LOSERS!
I choose winning!
July 13th, 2018 at 5:05 pm
If there was more traffic on the other Bucs fan sites I’d probably never come here.
———————————————————-
Gosh. We sure would miss you.
July 13th, 2018 at 5:09 pm
@BFM
“If you’re going to be an a$$ at least be an intelligent a$$. You’re true colors are showing!”
Lack of intelligent debate= being proven wrong as wrong can be at every turn, and then resorting to baseless, inane, unrelated insults because you know your wrong.
Just stop trying and go on with your day dude.
July 13th, 2018 at 5:14 pm
And @Dave
Not sure what you were trying to accomplish with that comment. But, ok?
July 13th, 2018 at 5:19 pm
Find me someone that thinks any aspect of 5-11 is good. I’ll wait.
Hello pot, meet kettle! This started as intelligent but you can’t argue points without calling people stupid. Now you’re just trying to act tough because you got called out.
I’m good with my day. Just calling out the a-holes when needed!
July 13th, 2018 at 5:22 pm
SchwiftyBuc,
I wasn’t trying to accomplish anything.
I was just saying if we never had the privilege to read your pompous postings here on JBF we would ALL be worse off.
That’s all I was saying Blake.
July 13th, 2018 at 5:24 pm
That is not the original context BFM and you know it. Here let me remind you what you originally said.
“How can anyone say that any aspect of this team played well when we were 5-11?!”
The longer you drag this out, and the more times you move your goal post (try and change what you actually said/meant), the dumber you make yourself look.
I’ll leave it at that.
July 13th, 2018 at 6:11 pm
Alex-
Thank you for the Reddit link re: breakdowning the15 Winston fumbles.
Unfortunately the people who need to see this most won’t check it out because it won’t support their narrative that they were JW3s fault.