Too Handsy
May 8th, 2018
Lot to work with.
It seems the Bucs have a cornerback whose lone obstacle to being a shutdown corner versus a toaster oven is his grabby hands.
And no, Joe isn’t talking about grabby like Jerry Jones.
In breaking down the college film of Bucs second round pick cornerback Carlton Davis of Auburn, good guy Mike Tanier of Bleacher Report suggested the only thing he can find wrong about Davis is that he gets too handsy with receivers downfield.
Strengths: Size, physicality.
Weaknesses: Grabbiness.
Carlton Davis has an ideal size-speed combination and steps up in run support very well. He’s an experienced SEC defender who can smoothly turn and run in man coverage. Davis would be a first-round pick if his downfield coverage technique didn’t involve grabbing or shoving his receiver, failing to turn his head around and doing other things that lead to penalties and opponents’ touchdowns in the NFL. A cornerback who can stick with receivers downfield can be taught what to do when the ball arrives, so Davis could easily develop into a starting cornerback with work.
WIth Davis and M.J. Stewart, the Buccaneers have significantly reshaped their secondary in this round. For a team that must compete with the high-octane Saints offense, the theoretically high-octane Falcons offense and whatever the Panthers think their building, reinforcing the secondary is a sound strategy.
Grade: B-plus
So lets just say from the scouting report, it might be in Davis’ best interests to stay away from the various clothing optional establishments on Dale Mabry Highway.
As Tanier suggests, Davis has the skillset. He just needs to be coached up. Can that take place with the Bucs? Given how rookies have not developed under Mike Smith and his defensive staff the past two seasons, that’s a significant concern.
May 8th, 2018 at 5:22 am
@Joe … “Davis has the skillset. He just needs to be coached up.” As soon as I read that line Joe, I KNEW what the next line was. See how effectively you’ve indoctrinated us with your constant bombardment of the Secondary coaches? Doesn’t mean any of us JBFers agree with you, just that if you keep repeating something over and over and over and over again then folks kinda figure out what coming next.
And IMO, NFL refs don’t tolerate ‘grabbiness’. Davis will probably get flagged a few times before the light comes on. Let’s just hope that he improves his technique and doesn’t start playing 10 yds off to keep from getting penalized.
May 8th, 2018 at 5:54 am
I remember the battles between ME13 and a guy called Sherman so IMHO the refs tolerate a lot of “handshaking” between CB and WR. Only problem is – they change their mind if you are not known grabbiness as CB (or the other way round for trying to get PI-calls as WR).
May 8th, 2018 at 6:02 am
Some refs are more prone to let grabbiness go on than others. I have seen Evans
go up up to catch a ball with only one arm free with no calls. Hopefully it balance out,
because Evans and others receivers get away with some pushoffs. IMO most
of what the refs call are blatant and a lot of other stuff is let go.
May 8th, 2018 at 6:05 am
Joe, thanks for the “first sip of coffee laugh” by referring to Jerry Jones as “handsy” but not America’s Handsy.
May 8th, 2018 at 6:43 am
Funny stuff Joe’s. Yah they will have to work on that
I saw too that people were worried about 4.53 speed at combine. He is a 6’1 db so pretty solid in that regard. Plus at pro day , he ran 4.4 range which is filthy for a guy his size. We needed a bigger db bad and yes I said it , we need him to start day 1 so hopefully these coaches will get thru to him on his handsy – ness
May 8th, 2018 at 6:44 am
Two for two with the negative spin today.
Given how rookies have not developed under Mike Smith and his defensive staff the past two seasons with the Bucs, that’s a significant concern.
May 8th, 2018 at 6:56 am
Defense
I agree with him. Seems you do too by adding you hope he improves his technique and doesnt start playing 10 yards off. Both those are coaching issues. Its pretty plain, smitty has been a disaster coaching the secondary. Pretty much everywhere, but the secondary is the group with the youngest, less experienced players. The ones who need more coaching. N I dont mind Davis being a bit grabby. Shows his competitiveness. Prefer that over someone eating toaster strudel every sunday
May 8th, 2018 at 6:56 am
Hopefully he’ll watch the Richard Sherman tape on how to hold without getting flagged. Dude literally made it an art form!
May 8th, 2018 at 7:00 am
We just signed FA cornerback/safety from a small school, Siena Heights – Darius Price. He might be a sleeper. 6’2″, 225 lbs and runs a 4.48, 10 ft 9 in in the broad jump and had the third best 21 reps of the bench press among DB at the combine. He also had the longest arm, 33.5 for all DBs at the combine.
May 8th, 2018 at 7:33 am
Sounds like awesome improvement over finger wag Hargreaves. He will need to coach hisself up. For once we have someone going up against Falcons–over it with Desmond Trufant all over Evans–dude should be called for way more penalties than he gets. Rather see a ton of penalties and alot of collisions and commotion then to see Julio Jones running all over the place–the best day he ever has is against the Bucs every time. Mostly we need to stop playing afraid and attack the opposite team.
Joe can we get a write up on the dude mentioned above by BamaBuc Fan–sounds good
May 8th, 2018 at 7:36 am
Just Watch’em
In Press – He stands firm.
Extends Arms to Lock Out and Re-Route Receivers.
Similar to a how defensive minded guard would; in basketball.
Damn I wish Kris Richards could coach this kid-up.
Perfect Candidate for the “Kick-Step” Technique ala Richard Sherman
May 8th, 2018 at 7:39 am
Working against ME in camp should help, since he is also pretty good at pushing off, when will training camp have the refs
May 8th, 2018 at 8:16 am
Hmm
Very strong comparable to another former Baltimore Ravens CB – Chris McAlister.
May 8th, 2018 at 8:27 am
Sure hope Joe stocked up on candles in order to pray for the souls of these rookie DBs – we drafted 3 of them ya-know.
Or does the “young DBs can’t be coached up by this staff” theory only apply to CBs since Justin Evans obviously had a pretty decent rookie year?
If that’s the case then both 2nd rounders (Stewart and Davis) are screwed and have no chance to succeed. But 4th rd Safety Whitehead should be just fine and starting by game 1…
May 8th, 2018 at 8:57 am
Unless he blows coaches away, he won’t even start game one. None of the DBs we drafted will.
That’s being realistic.
I just love how people have given up on Hargreaves around here. I hope he’s taking the off season to fix his issues and prove you all wrong.
Joe’s claim that the Bucs cannot develop CBs isn’t exactly fair. It’s like saying you can’t fry an egg right before it is done cooking. You can say ‘prove me wrong’ all you want while the egg is cooking, but its silly because you know no one can prove anything until it is done cooking.
In the same way, VHIII had an okay rookie year, and people were excited about him. Then he had a bad second year, and suddenly everyone claims he was never any good. There’s a reason it takes three years to judge a player. It’s because second years are commonly bad years and the third year is when you see how they respond.
As to our other ‘failure’, not really fair to him either, since his first year was at safety and he had limited opportunities his first year at corner.
Let the eggs finish cooking.
May 8th, 2018 at 9:02 am
Joe, You say this coaching staff can’t develop corners. I was wondering Who developed Bret Grimes? Maybe we should hire HIM!
May 8th, 2018 at 9:05 am
Bonzai
If doesn’t get his head out of his arse.
He’ll add to the ever-growing list of Gator Bust – unfortunately
May 8th, 2018 at 9:06 am
*
May 8th, 2018 at 9:06 am
Is it just me or do I seem to be missing something here. They keep saying that he is a first round talent, however I can’t seem to find one mock draft that had him going in the 1st round. This seems to be hype from from the Joes!
May 8th, 2018 at 9:06 am
Buccaneer Bonzai Says:
May 8th, 2018 at 8:57 am
I just love how people have given up on Hargreaves around here. I hope he’s taking the off season to fix his issues and prove you all wrong.
————
Sounds like you think being wrong about something is the worst thing ever.
I would love to be wrong about VHIII and I hope he is doing exactly what you said, and I hope I’m as wrong about him as anyone.
May 8th, 2018 at 9:22 am
So up until now you were on the possible steal bandwagon now back to that silly notion that he won’t be developed. Coaches look good when coaching talented players. Hmm lol it’s a good thing someone developed Tom Brady and Julio Jones and Darelle revis. If Marcus Peters had been drafted by the bucs he would have been garbage and a bust because they can’t develop corners lol right, sure glad we didn’t draft lattimore because he would have been a bust instead of rookie of the year
The saints defense has been just as bad as ours up until drafting that kid and a couple d ends but sure keep saying it had nothing to do with talent but coaching as if the saints have a guru coaching corners
May 8th, 2018 at 9:23 am
Hope the bucs bring the refs in a lot during camp to help teach this kid right from wrong.
May 8th, 2018 at 9:33 am
Any way we can clone Talib?! God I miss that dood.
VHIII will be back with a better Dline. He played soft because he knew that Dline wasn’t getting the job done. Once JPP starts wrecking havoc VHIII will be his old self, a damn good starting NFL corner.
May 8th, 2018 at 9:38 am
“Any way we can clone Talib?”
I think we just did – at pick #63…
Time will tell but I have a feeling that Davis is going to be a good CB in the NFL.
May 8th, 2018 at 9:51 am
Sigh.
Once again, Joe won’t be a fraud and write something he not only doesn’t believe but there is no evidence to support such a stand. Joe’s not going to write something he believes is flat out false just to make you or any other reader happy.
And until there is evidence to the contrary, Joe will continue to hammer this point. Better get used to it.
If this bothers you so much, may not want to read any story that deals with rookie corners or Bucs secondary coaches.
May 8th, 2018 at 9:52 am
You know who else was/is grabby and handsy, every corner that’s ever played the game. Richard Sherman is grabby and handsy all day long!! You do it until the refs call it.
May 8th, 2018 at 10:10 am
He can be physical, that’s ok. That’s one of the main reasons he got drafted high. But it has to be within 5 yards of the line, and if he’s downfield he just has to learn to get his head around more often. That was his biggest issue when drawing DPIs last season. That’s a technique issue, and it can be fixed.
May 8th, 2018 at 10:12 am
@Defense Rules, It’s just another one of those famous JBF narratives. Just like
“Bucs have no interest / don’t value rushing the passer” (this one seems to have gone away after all the FA activity this offseason)
“Doug Martin was the one and only reason we had a terrible rushing attack”
Etc, etc. just par for the course. Like you said, many of us JBFers don’t agree or believe it, no matter how many times they are repeated.
May 8th, 2018 at 10:14 am
Interested to see the secondary development. If Joe is right that we can’t develop players then it means:
VHIII / Ryan Smith / (Elliot I guess?) would all be top tier starters on other teams and Justin Evans should have been a probowler or something as a rookie.
I don’t really buy that. Justin Evans is in the secondary and seemed to improve quite a bit over the course of the season. So there’s evidence of development and improved tackling tecnique. If he looks good to start year 2 then all of a sudden this take by Joe immediately will be baseless; as that will be direct evidence of young secondary development. Hell if VHIII starts and does well same thing.
Those 2 players = the only significant investments we’ve made in terms of developmental prospects that should be starters.
Ryan Smith was at his first year at CB. He was a 4th round pick. Typically most 4th round CBs don’t ball out their first 2 years.
We have also had one of the worst pass rushing defensive lines the last 2 seasons… this year #noexcuses for the secondary or Smitty
I personally think we’ll see pretty dramatic improvement by after the bye week
May 8th, 2018 at 10:34 am
He’s an experienced SEC defender who can smoothly turn and run in man coverage.
that statement above is why I don’t understand what smitty is doing…….why draft a man press cb and make him play off?….it makes no sense!!!!!
you waste 2 or 3 years trying to teach a player a technique that he’s never played before and when the kid looks like a fish out of water, folks say he’s a bust or has no talent….SMDH…..
these coaches aren’t putting players in position to be successful…..they are not playing to their strength…..smitty is trying to force a round peg into a square…..
joe is absolutely right!!!!!!!……this staff can not turn man press cb’s into zone/off coverage cb’s……that’s a fact…..
smitty, if you want to play off coverage, then draft a CB that’s played off coverage all thru out college…..stop drafting man press cb’s and trying to teach them how to play off coverage because you are failing miserably!!!!
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!….#PRESSURESONTHECOACHES!!!!…GO BUCS!!!!
May 8th, 2018 at 10:50 am
813
I believe we will see more press this year now that we have the horses to run it – primarily the D-line upgrades.
If we don’t I’ll be surprised/ disappointed
Koetter straight up said this guy is a physical man press CB and that we needed to get bigger/physical to deal with the bigger WRs. We shall see tho!
May 8th, 2018 at 11:55 am
PI is such a 50/50 thing.
Some players get a bad rep with the refs. These players never get the benefit of the doubt, this is what we don’t need.
We have a guy with a bad reputation right now with Mike Evans. If you really look at the film Mike was getting away with some very blatant offensive PI in his first few years. Last year the refs caught on and he got what we knew was coming.
It will be interesting to see if the refs give Mike a clean slate this year and let him play some football. I say all’s even let him play.
One thing is for sure. Winning teams get the benefit of the doubt on more 50/50 calls and I bet the numbers bea4 that our.
May 8th, 2018 at 12:02 pm
LC
we’ll find out if its coaching and scheme vs players and talent….cant wait!!!!
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!!….#PRESSURESONTHECOACHES!!!…GO BUCS!!!!