Analyst: M.J. Stewart A Slot Corner
May 2nd, 2018
Pushing Vernon Hargreaves.
Man, you can almost see this coming down Dale Mabry Highway.
Joe is reading between the lines but from the analysis of good guy Mike Tanier of Bleacher Report, it sure seems Bucs corner Vernon Hargreaves is getting a helluva wake-up call.
In Tanier’s breakdown of second round draft pick M.J. Stewart, Tanier all but writes slot corner is his best fit in the NFL.
Strengths: Tackling, run support, reliability.
Weaknesses: Lack of elite traits.
M.J. Stewart is an experienced, well-built defender who tackles and plays run support well and can read patterns and break up passes. He’s no speed merchant and is too small for a permanent shift to safety, but Stewart can thrive underneath in the Cover 2 or as a slot defender. He’s a safe, low-upside selection.
This pick lacks sizzle, but overall, the Bucs have really upgraded their roster in several areas in the first two rounds.
Grade: B
Joe will guess the Bucs give Hargreaves every chance to right himself and win back the starting job at corner, which he lost quickly last year as he was getting roasted way, way too often.
Now Bucs coach Dirk Koetter has gone on record saying every team in the league would fall to its knees to have a nickel corner like Hargreaves. Maybe so.
But next spring, the Bucs must make a determination whether to pick up Hargreaves’ fifth-year contract option (2020). If Hargreaves is only a slot corner, Joe doubts the Bucs pick up it up.
Enter Stewart, who would come with a lesser salary.
It won’t be long before the Bucs are going to have to start counting their nickels. America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston, will need to be paid, as will Ali Marpet, Donovan Smith and Kwon Alexander.
The Bucs simply won’t have the financial wherewithal or luxury to pay a slot corner a full-time starting corner salary commensurate of a guy picked 11th overall.
If Hargreaves can snap out of whatever funk he was in, it is a win-win for everybody.
May 2nd, 2018 at 8:09 am
My 2 cents VH3 troubles are all between his ears…..he has the physical tools to excel in the NFL…he lost confidence in himself….he will have to pick off a few balls before WR & QB’s stop going after him
May 2nd, 2018 at 8:11 am
Licht has proven he’s not afraid to cut ties with a player regardless of their draft status. He is all but admitting VHIII was a mistake by picking MJ (who is basically a straight up replacement for VHIII). I highly doubt Vernon can beat Davis for the other starting outside corner position.
May 2nd, 2018 at 8:14 am
Why am I scratching my head about this pick?
May 2nd, 2018 at 8:16 am
Makes me think if that video was recorded early on when he was younger and dumber and some one possibly was holding on to it and possibly using as blackmail? would explain his falling off the map last year but that’s just my conspiracy theory.
May 2nd, 2018 at 8:16 am
IMO…..Desean Jackson screwed Hargreaves up last training camp. This site posted videos over and over of Jackson just blowing past Hargreaves all training camp. After that, he started backing off the line……when you add in we had ZERO pass rush and a rotation of safeties, the problem snow balled into terrible coverage. I would keep Hargreaves away from Jackson and see if he can rebuild his confidence/technique.
May 2nd, 2018 at 8:20 am
A good pass rush is what every secondary needs. Altered Ego is right, VH28 problems are between his ears. puff, puff, pass interference.
May 2nd, 2018 at 8:27 am
No matter how this shakes out I am excited. Grimes should be a lock, HGIII hopefully can turn it around but if not I think at least one of these second-round selections will pan out to be an every down corner. Either way, it is the most talent we have had at that position in a long time.
May 2nd, 2018 at 8:29 am
Hargreaves may never live up to the expectations of a #11 overall pick – but odds are more than good that he will wind up being at least an adequate NFL starter.
All the questioning and low expectations of the Stewart pick reminds me a good bit of what was said about Justin Evans this exact time last year.
J. Evans was drafted at very close to the same spot as Stewart was this year – and the pick was seriously questioned because there were (allegedly) higher rated safeties still on the board.
Yet Licht’s evaluation skills were validated once again as the young man came in and got to work. J. Evans played well enough to earn the starting spot early in his rookie year – and showed a lot of promise and legit play making ability on an NFL field while just getting his feet wet – playing full time as a rookie.
May 2nd, 2018 at 8:35 am
Like alot of young players I also think Hargreaves, as simple as it sounds, needs to play well and gain confidence. Watching film of yourself screwing up over and over makes you tentative. He has the skills so I agree with AE, he needs to get his head on board with being a NFL starter.
May 2nd, 2018 at 8:39 am
And this is why he was picked over Isaiah Oliver.
May 2nd, 2018 at 8:41 am
@Bobby M – I agree that Hargreaves needs to build confidence but I disagree that building confidence comes from protecting players during practice. IMHO, you’ve got to practice the way you play a game and if your 11th overall pick cannot handle covering your #2 receiver, you KEEP him covering that #2 receiver until he gets it or taps out. Don’t coddle, these are grown men being paid very handsomely to play a game. Time to man up, or ship out.
May 2nd, 2018 at 8:42 am
Marpet gonna get paid and donovan smith is average LT, but Jameis better show something this year and kwon is an average LB on a terrible defense, he needs to step up or just draft his replacement and if there is a new regime all of this could be moot as they will be going in a new direction and it could start with the QB, I hope jameis does great this year as do the bucs……………really wish licht would have taken Laremy Tunsil instead of a guy who couldnt cover any of the NFL ready SEC wideouts, while at UF
May 2nd, 2018 at 8:43 am
I doubt Hargreaves starts this year. Hargreaves will most likely come in when the Bucs play a dime package or if they have an injury.
MJ Stewart is much better than people on here realize. He was dominant at the Senior Bowl and was named MVP of the defensive backs.
Pro Football Focus had him very highly rated and had this to say about the two corners the Bucs selected:
“Stewart and Davis should be big additions to the secondary, with Stewart having extensive experience in the slot and a game that is reminiscent of Micah Hyde – a player that can match up with problem players on offense and neutralize a personnel advantage.”
May 2nd, 2018 at 8:49 am
I questioned the pick of MJ at first myself but I’m starting to understand the pick the secondary lack depth 1 injury away from being in the same position as last year at corner and safety. If he can play both if injury happen they that a better pick then Oliver. I only think the honey badger swap between corner and safety between game. So if the kid can do things like that good pick
May 2nd, 2018 at 8:49 am
I find it curious that all of the sudden Hargreaves is the problem not the coaches.
Surely under coaches who could develop a young CB, Hargreaves would shine.
Using this same logic J. Elliott will be off the team and Ryan Smith will be purely a backup if that.
May 2nd, 2018 at 9:00 am
I believe this off season will do wonder for VH3 and Evan. He has enough speed to play outside corner and be effective all he need to do is to improve his technique and trust his skill set and believe in the back half. Because Evan was late and out of position alot so we’re the other safety. A full off season should improve him. And a better pass rush will help the whole defense
May 2nd, 2018 at 9:12 am
@Destinjohnny … “Why am I scratching my head about this pick?” You and me both. Knowing how desperate the Bucs are for starting outside corners, why would Licht select Stewart BEFORE Carlton if he’s viewed as just a slot corner? We already have VHIII & Ryan Smith can play nickel. That view doesn’t make sense IMO, especially since Licht by-passed a number of much higher ranked CBs to grab Stewart.
The only thing that does seem to make sense to me is that Bucs view Stewart as BOTH a nickel CB AND a potential Safety. At 5’11” & 200 lbs he’s bigger than several very good safeties on other teams, and he’s apparently got excellent coverage skills (which might fit better at Safety than at outside CB). I guess only time will tell.
May 2nd, 2018 at 9:22 am
I think after this year, provided Hargreaves plays well in the slot, the Bucs will give him a chance to replace Grime (with Carlton Davis already winning the other outside spot).
If Hargreaves can succeed on the outside, than Bucs already have a starter in line for the slot.
If Hargreaves cant, then they can still cut him and just find another outside corner
May 2nd, 2018 at 9:23 am
I think VGH will bounce back strong…..the thing most folks forget is that he was injured too!!!!!!….right along with Winston, kwon, LVD,grimes and all those guys…..folks blamed injuries on LVD and kwons poor tackling…..blamed winston inaccuracy on injuries…..but when it comes to VHG folks act like he wasn’t injured early…..
along with being healthy, the dline should make the entire secondary better….they wont have to cover wr’s for 45seconds…..
with that said, he has a lot of competition this offseason with no room for error….ryan smith should improve….c.davis can ball…..MJ will most likely lock down the nickel spot…..he has to step up!!!!
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!#PRESSURESONTHECOACHES!!!!…GO BUCS!!!!!
May 2nd, 2018 at 9:36 am
I don’t understand why folks complaining about where we selected a player…..lol…..who cares what the “experts” say….if the bucs thought MJ was better/high on their board, then I don’t see what the problem is….pac12 don’t play defense any way…..lol…that’s why all there qb’s look so good….lol…..obviously the staff values flexibility and MJ gives them that…..he can play multiple positions….not sure if this oliver kid can…..
let the draft picks hit the field before bashing them….lol….
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!#PRESSURESONTHECOACHES!!!!…GO BUCS!!!!!
May 2nd, 2018 at 9:44 am
(Ahem)
Joe is just sitting here, tapping his fingers on the desk, watching replays of Ryan Smith being matched up with Julio Jones.
May 2nd, 2018 at 9:47 am
Drafting a slot corner in the middle of the second round to replace the slot corner you drafted early in the first round, just a couple of years ago, seems a little high. there were seemingly, so many more valuable players at this point in the draft.
Why should we trust Licht and co.’s DB evaluation when they have done so poorly in the past? Licht often seems to look for “diamonds in the rough“ instead of the “diamond ‘out’ of the rough” and Out in the open. he wants to be the smartest guy in the room…You want to be smart? don’t reach…ever; don’t draft a guy just to change his position; don’t draft early for need; just take the best player in your draft position.
With that, I welcome MJ island!
May 2nd, 2018 at 10:05 am
What I don’t get about VHIII, is
Isn’t his Dad a football coach? In most cases coaches sons’ perform better than most, even if their physical skills aren’t elite.
At the very least, you would have thought his pops would have taught him not to wag that finger when he really hasn’t done anything
Maybe he lacks skills AND desire..
May 2nd, 2018 at 10:19 am
I have a sneaking suspicion that VH’s issues were more scheme related than skill related. I think they asked him to play “off” too much to cover for the garbage pass rush. I think he will bounce back this year.
May 2nd, 2018 at 10:39 am
BucTrooper- While I truly hope he rebounds, it is in the best interest of the team, it has been reported multiple times that the DBs were given the freedom to line up as they choose. He CHOSE to line up 10 yards deep.
Yes, pass-rush will certainly help.
May 2nd, 2018 at 11:20 am
Very pleased with the draft and getting three players to add to the secondary. Don’t think anybody with the Bucs has spoken on where they will play Stewart. They may even see him as a S.
The whole gripe about picking Stewart over a CB is very dumb. It’s very likely that the Bucs wanted to draft a nickel CB or S(wherever they want Stewart) and saw the options running slim for prospects they wanted. They knew at the time they had multiple options at CB they liked……..In fact they very likely could have desired Carlton over any of them. It’s safe to assume that Licht had multiple options at CB he wanted. This is further evidenced by the fact that he then traded his next pick even further down in the draft with the Pats. The Pats also selected a CB and Licht absolutely knew that CBs would be in play between the Sterwart and Davis picks.
When Licht drafts he is looking at more then a mock sheet. There’s a little thing called a roster that he’s worried about. He cant let a nickel/S slip away from him if that’s part of his draft goal.
All the secondary players we got, if you noticed, are supported to be excellent tacklers. That alone should be an upgrade.
May 2nd, 2018 at 11:37 am
Stewart was the #1 CB at the Senior Bowl and mostly played outside from what I read; and basically never blew a coverage or let a guy get open and was step for step with every WR there.
IMO the long term vision is that MS values positional flexibility with CB the way Licht does with O-line. Stewart was more valuable than a pure outside CB to the team because he can fill 2 different positions if needed – possibly 3 if you include S. They also may think higher of him as nickle than Oliver/Davis as outside guys in terms of a sure thing. We saw Duke Dawson – another nickle CB – go just a few picks later.
I think long term they hope either VHIII or Stewart can show enough to take over for Grimes next year; with the loser being the Nickle; and Davis manning the other spot on the outside.
May 2nd, 2018 at 11:41 am
not buying the “he had freedom to line up where every he wanted” to BS…..if the coaches noticed he was struggling playing off, why not force him to play up…..its the scheme….VHG is a man press cb….
the staff made zero adjustment offensive or defensively…..
even tho Winston struggled to connect with the deep ball last year, dirk refused to dial it back….he kept launching bombs…..and folks were looking at Winston as if he sucked….it aint him…its the predictable 4vert scheme…..
until these coaches learn how to play to players strengths and put them in position to be successful, they’ll have the same results…..
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!!….#PRESSURESONTHECOACHES!!!!!…GO BUCS!!!!!
May 2nd, 2018 at 11:44 am
Agreed VH3’s issues are between his ears. I still believe he can turn it around and maybe our new additions will be the push he needed to break out of his funk. One things for sure, the DB’s we drafted possess more of an Alpha mentality than VH3 seems to have so he BETTER bring it. VH3 dancing around and squealing like a little girl won’t solidify his position on this team any longer.
May 2nd, 2018 at 11:44 am
VG3 is going to have a huge bounce back year. You cannot play 2 high safeties and off coverage at corner with no pass rush. The difference between covering a guy for 3 seconds and 6 seconds is massive.
With the upgrades at Dline, VG3 will be much more confident at the line of scrimmage knowing the ball is coming his way sooner than later. Everyone knows he’s talented, but even the best in business cannot cover people for 6+ seconds.
Pass rush cures all!!!
May 2nd, 2018 at 11:49 am
LC
ryan smith is the wild card…..he has great size and speed….smith and davis would give us to big CB’s outside…..as much as I love VHG he may be the odd man out if he don’t get his sh!t together if MJ can take over the slot…..
big season for VHG…..he’ll have help up front this year….either learn how to play off or die trying….
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!!….#PRESSURESONTHECOACHES!!!!!…GO BUCS!!!!!
May 2nd, 2018 at 11:49 am
FSU-Bucs fans back their high drafted picks with passion. Likewise UF-Bucs fans do the same.
May 2nd, 2018 at 12:01 pm
BucTrooper- EXACTLY!!!!
Bucfanman- After week 2, a high school coach would have seen that giving them the “freedom” to play where they were comfortable was the wrong approach. Smith is the boss, not VH3 or any other CB. A good (halfway decent) coach would have told his guys to go press and challenge the DBs manhood. Not Smitty, 16 games of that sh*t!! THAT is what needs to change. If Smith is the man to do it, then fine, I just don’t think you can teach old dogs new tricks, they always resort back to their comfort zone. I remind you of 2 years ago after we won 5 straight, he called off the dogs against the Cowboys and Saints and we were suddenly out of the playoffs and then he got aggressive again against the Panthers and we won the last game of the year and I believe we lost out on the playoffs by a tie-breaker or a 1/2 game.
May 2nd, 2018 at 12:16 pm
@everybody complaining about not drafting Isaiah Oliver-
He is a horrible tackler and not tough at all!!
He dropped because he plays too soft and has major footwork and hip mobility issues.
We took a guaranteed badass in MJ. A dude who will mess you up.
And Carlton, “the Praying Mantis,” Davis.
Both tough dudes with great fundamentals and smarts.
May 2nd, 2018 at 12:22 pm
as a former cornerback back in school vhg confidence is lacking because of all the times he got roasted
May 2nd, 2018 at 1:39 pm
@813
Yeah I could see that as well.
Either way I hope the coaches can figure it out. They have all the clay they could want for molding:
1 starting outside vet
2 guys with size who can potentially play outside/press
2 guys who can play both outside and inside and should be great at nickle
May 2nd, 2018 at 1:57 pm
There’s a reason me and Bucs friends starting calling VH3 Softgraves. Not only was he getting burned left and right last year, he couldn’t tackle at all. He was so soft. I think one of the strongest messages from drafting guys like M.J. and Davis is they want guys that can hit! Guys that can make a tackle! That’s one area both those guys are known for. Softgraves is too busy trying to be Mr GQ than working on his craft.
May 2nd, 2018 at 2:07 pm
There’s a reason me and Bucs friends starting calling VH3 Softgraves.
LOL That’s cold, man.
May 2nd, 2018 at 3:07 pm
813bucboi, JJBucFan, BucTrooper:
Don’t taze me bros! I didn’t make that up. That’s what was reported.
I agree that the coach should dictate scheme and I agree that Smitty was an absolute F- as a coach last year. However, I think we can agree that VHIII did not play to expectations, putting it mildly.
May 2nd, 2018 at 4:33 pm
I’m gonna be pissed if they give Donovan Smith a gigantic pile of cash. Bucs at least need to be thinking of better options in 2019. Hope he can show up this year and prove he’s continuously developing or he don’t deserve serious dough.
May 2nd, 2018 at 4:45 pm
Joe
“(Ahem)
Joe is just sitting here, tapping his fingers on the desk, watching replays of Ryan Smith being matched up with Julio Jones.”
I’m not exactly sure what you’re saying Joe? Are you saying the problem with these coaches is we can’t produce a “rookie CB” from NCC to cover the best WR in the NFL? I’m confused.
#BooToJoe’sCan’tProduceCBPoppycock
May 2nd, 2018 at 11:24 pm
Bucsfanman- not hatin’ on ya, just giving my 2 cents as to why I think we sucked last year. I think our coaches. I have watched games with my pops since 1980 when we moved down to Tampa and I told him in 2016 Mike Smiths defense sucks donkey D and my dad who has forgotten more about every sports team than I have (or will) ever know told me to just wait, he knows what he he is doing. I had to eat my words when we went on the 5 gamer. But after game 14 against the Cowboys, he called me and told me that he just went away from everything that allowed us to win 5 in a row. After the Saints game (which is what kept us out of the playoffs) he was ready for Smitty to go forever. His lack of aggressiveness is what has killed us, not the individual players. Don’t even get me started on the play calling (and worse yet, the play designs themselves) of Koetter and his crappy offense. I honestly think our coaches packed it in last year. I’ve never seen a worse coaching job on both sides of the ball for any nfl team I can remember. Did;t mean to rattle your cage- just sick of Jameis shouldering the blame from these “fans”. He’s not out there 10-15 yards off the line of scrimmage. If he was told to do that, Im sure he would defy those orders too, he knows how to win and what it takes.
May 3rd, 2018 at 8:26 am
Have to love it…so here it the bottom line…
Vernon…so which will it be? Smoke doobie and haze your way out of the league? Or step up and play like a first round corner.
Don’t kid yourselves boys…. this is the bottom line.
May 3rd, 2018 at 11:41 am
@Pickgrin
Your comparison of the J Evans pick last year and Stewart this year is spot on my man. We just need to trust Licht evaluated this guy and saw something in his game that made him worth a 2nd round pick. One can’t really say anything about the pick till we see them in a game anyways.
May 3rd, 2018 at 1:08 pm
Let’s hope the D-Coordinator utilizes the skill set of his DB’s and starts playing a lot more press coverage, not allowing so many easy completions. I think if Hargreaves can play closer to the line on the outside, and have help over top, he will do very well there and regain his confidence. Then Stewart can play inside where he is best suited.