The Forgotten Guard
April 18th, 2018
Blocks the best.
Yeah, Joe knows a lot of Bucs fans lust over this Quenton Nelson, a guard from Notre Dame, more than if they had a shot with Paige VanZant.
And Joe has written several times about the beast of west Texas, Will Hernandez of UTEP.
Seemingly forgotten is a nasty guard from Georgia, Isaiah Wynn. Draft analysts largely believe Wynn may be the No. 3 guard in the draft, not far behind Hernandez in skill.
Now Joe was going through his notes from the combine and something Wynn said jumped out. We all know how Bucs coach Dirk Koetter likes versatile offensive lineman. Koetter always talks about getting the five best blockers on the field and he will find a spot for them.
Wynn, at Indianapolis this winter, said he can play not just guard, but tackle and center. And he did play tackle in the national championship game in January. You know, versatility! Hhhmmm?
One reason Joe thinks Wynn is being overlooked is the simple fact that the SEC, where Wynn played, is very much a defensive conference. Joe is of the mind if an offensive lineman can block well in the SEC, then he can block.
“I would say my most dominant game would probably be Alabama,” Wynn said back at the combine. “The reason I say I set myself apart from my peers, I felt like later on the season, my play actually got better. A lot of times in college especially when you hit that 15-game mark, your body’s taken that toll. I feel like I shine better at the end of the season as opposed to the beginning of the season.”
Wynn later said something that should get Bucs fans excited. He said he likes inside zone blocking because it allows him to beat up on defensive linemen.
And given the fact he blocked for both Sony Michel and Nick Chubb, Wynn knows how to clear space in a rushing attack.
And with Bucs right tackle Demar Dotson now a sudden question mark, the fact Wynn can play tackle as well, this could be a factor.
$20 all-you-can-eat buffet kicks off at 6 p.m. and runs all night long. Be there!!
April 18th, 2018 at 10:34 am
trade down…..wynn win situation!!!!!
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!!
April 18th, 2018 at 10:37 am
all jokes aside, the kid can play…..I watched him for the pass 3 years and he got better each year…..has a mean streak to him…..athletic for his size…..he would be a day1 starter…..
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!!
April 18th, 2018 at 10:41 am
Wynn blocked for Gurley, Michel, and Chubb. Enough said.
April 18th, 2018 at 10:45 am
Don’t kid yourselves. Dotson is not long for the NFL. Maybe 2 more yrs. Those knee injuries for linemen never heal. So we gotta start getting prepared.
April 18th, 2018 at 10:46 am
I always talk about him
April 18th, 2018 at 10:49 am
Bucs right tackle Demar Dotson now a sudden question mark,
—————–
With all due respect and I hope SB (and others are listening) this is why I laugh when posters say “you know more than the experts”.
Dotson was done 2 years ago, no one said anything. Probably bc he gives great interviews after tough losses right Ira?
3 weeks ago he was medically cleared then last week we find out he had knee surgery. Smh. Some couldn’t run Donald Penn out of town fast enough but have zero to say about Dotson. Btw, Benenoch is even worse.
Then people have the audacity to blame jameis for turnovers when he’s got DEs hitting him 1.5 secs after the snap bc he RTs are complete garbage. THEN the experts say Donovan Smith is garbage, some of youz have zero clue, fr fr.
April 18th, 2018 at 10:50 am
A little “overlooked” perhaps. Regardless, the Bucs need OL help and there’s 3 quality guard prospects available. If you don’t get Nelson at #7, trade down and get Wynn or Hernandez AND your RB, if available.
April 18th, 2018 at 10:51 am
Whoa… whoa… whoa!!!!
Joe’s readers will have you know that not even Earl Campbell could run for a yard unless an offensive line blows open a 10-yard wide hole for a guy to run through. How is it possible a running back can make a difference just by reading blocks and taking advantage of seams and having a semblance of vision??? This simply doesn’t sound possible.
A running back can make an offensive line look good? This can actually happen???
#DougMartin
April 18th, 2018 at 10:54 am
feelthepewterpower Says:
April 18th, 2018 at 10:41 am
“Wynn blocked for Gurley, Michel, and Chubb.”
Hmmm, you might be onto something there! Wynn/Chubb or Wynn/Michel, yes, please, and thank you!
April 18th, 2018 at 10:54 am
Have to be fair here. To date, we do not know how this injury happened. Could have blown it out pumping weights or falling down a set of stairs. It is unclear if the surgery is any way related to his previous injury.
April 18th, 2018 at 11:00 am
In a scenario where we trade back with Buffalo and take Derwin James with pick 12 then Guice with pick 22, Wynn would make a great target for our next pick.
April 18th, 2018 at 11:02 am
Joe- You keep beating that drum but a blind man could’ve seen that our offensive line was not productive. I think even Earl would struggle if he had defenders on his ankles before the LOS!
Yes, we need a RB. Now that we have some semblance of an offensive line, that RB should be more successful, in theory.
April 18th, 2018 at 11:07 am
I think it’s more appropriate to say that Gurley, Chubb, and Michel all ran behind this guy at guard. Just like a good quarterback can make average receivers better, great o-line play can help average RBs better.
April 18th, 2018 at 11:10 am
im from el paso texas and i got to say it would be a mistake to take utep g will Hernandez in the first round yes hes a big guy that played against little guys the only player to ever make it out here in west texas is nm lobos own brian Urlacher.
April 18th, 2018 at 11:12 am
DB55- You’re right about Dot, but he did bounce back and have a better year last year. For what it’s worth!
Benenoch was horrible, I agree and think he should go back to guard, as a back-up of course.
April 18th, 2018 at 11:24 am
Wynn fits my best case scenario.
Trade with Buffalo 12 James, 22 Guice, 38 Wynn!!!
April 18th, 2018 at 11:26 am
@DB55
Most experts continually say DOtson is one of the better RTs but I’m not sure I’ve seen that. He’s been solid tho and far from a problem compared to the interior run blocking / pass pro at times
April 18th, 2018 at 11:27 am
To trade back, you must have a trading partner. It all depends on who is picked ahead of us. Pure theator ! Can’t wait until draft day !
April 18th, 2018 at 11:33 am
Can anyone tell me why they moved back the draft a month ? They did that a couple of years ago I believe. Drafting sooner would make a lot of sense for the team (allowing another month for the player to study the play book) and the player. (If a player gets drafted and agrees to a contract , it makes sense to delay a semester of classes for later in order to pursue a football career. You can always go back to school, but can’t always play in the lucrative NFL.)
April 18th, 2018 at 11:33 am
He lacks the length to be an NFL tackle in my opinion, but I think he’ll be a dynamite interior blocker. Definitely a guy they should target if they trade down and end up with more assets.
April 18th, 2018 at 11:35 am
Also- Wynn is higher than Hernandez for a lot of people.
April 18th, 2018 at 11:37 am
Cleveland has three 2nd round picks. I would be open to trading our 7th overall pick to them for their three 2nd round picks and their 4th round pick this year. Cleveland would then have 3 picks in the top 7 of this draft (all potential day one starters) and the Bucs would have FOUR 2nd round draft picks and two early 4th round picks that they could use to move up into the 3rd if they so choose. I think this draft is deep enough to where you could get 4 impact players out of the 2nd round.
April 18th, 2018 at 11:42 am
Respectfully disagree. Dotson got re-signed but has gone downhill since. I think it’s due to age and injuries but wtfdik. He wasn’t that great last year even when healthy. Tape don’t lie.
April 18th, 2018 at 11:49 am
As I have said repeatedly, it’s the trenches that count.
seems to me there is an old commercial where Dan Marino is getting gloves to protect the lineman that protect him.
Has anyone ever seen a building built where the build the penthouse first?
April 18th, 2018 at 11:56 am
Yeah, I like it Joe!
April 18th, 2018 at 11:58 am
DB55- The best we can say about any player on our O-line was that “they played 16 games.” Of course, Joe will blame DM!
We’ve known about Dot for a while now and it looks like they’re finally preparing for his departure.
Got to upgrade the position. Our run-game and QB depend on it.
April 18th, 2018 at 12:18 pm
Powerful Paige VanZant reference tho.
But for real Wynn should be a 1st round pick. Another potential target in a trade down.
April 18th, 2018 at 12:24 pm
From noted draft analyst Tony Pauline. See paragraph six. Just another opinion.
http://draftanalyst.com/offensive-line-rankings-few-surprises
April 18th, 2018 at 12:25 pm
What games are you watching DB??? Not Bucs games apparently.
I mean you troll constantly about GMC – OK a given since you are well established with that nonsense…
But now you with all seriousness say Dotson went downhill last year?
Dude – Dotson had one of his best years last year. He was our most consistent OL player until his knee injury. The grading outfits all agreed with that assessment via their grades of his play.
SMH
Do we need to be procuring his eventual replacement this year? Absolutely!
Referring to Dotson as “complete garbage” though says plenty about your “eye” for what’s happening on the football field.
BWTFDYK indeed
April 18th, 2018 at 12:29 pm
@Nate
Well that is certainly an interesting take. You sound a lot like perhaps the greatest GM in NFL history…his teams reached 7 SB’s and won 4…Bobby Beathard would love your move.
He believed the draft was a crap shoot even for talented player evaluators, 40% failure in the first and it climbs from there. His goal every draft was to maximize the number of his picks to tilt the odds back in his favor.
If you simply do the math he’s correct. So you dump 1 first rounder a 40% failure rate and take three players with a 60% failure in later rounds. Which scenario gives you the best chance to find the player and if you get lucky you get a bonus player.
And of course you have an ego and believe you can beat those odds and have better player evaluation talent than your competition. If that is true instead of getting one of those three later rounders to pan out you get two or even three.
I largely agree with this theory and certainly believe you could find some good players with your suggestion Nate. The only time I’m not on board is for generational talent…I keep mentioning Patrick Peterson because he was a freak…the freak coming out this year is Barkley. If we get shot at him I do not want us to trade down.
April 18th, 2018 at 12:41 pm
Wynn can play all the line positions. I was automatically plugging him at 38 is per chance Barkley dropped. Another excellent lineman who failed miserably in his underwear football debate was Anthony Brown OT. this guy was in the top 12 until the combine. I read reviews from his film studies that were outstanding. at 6’8/340 lbs he was immovable. Then he blew his Combine and haven’t heard a thing since. Someone will get an absolute OL anchor when they take him in the 3rd or 4th rd.
April 18th, 2018 at 12:47 pm
This is the type of draft where you target certain players. RB, CB, OG are all “strengths” of this draft class and we have real “need” at all 3 of those positions.
RB – (Barkley, Guice, Michel, N. Chubb, Penny, Jones)
CB – (Ward, Josh Jackson, Alexander, Hughes, Donte Jackson)
OG – (Nelson, Hernandez, Wynn, Price, Ragnow)
Those are the top prospects at each of the areas of strength in this draft that match up perfectly with our needs. Most all carry 1st or 2nd rd grades.
GM Licht will find a way to get us 3 of those above players. One from each group. Whether via trade down or later trade up – he’s going to find a way to get us one of each from those positions. Betcha…
April 18th, 2018 at 12:52 pm
Anyone but Quenton Nelson!!!
-The Joe named Lee
April 18th, 2018 at 1:20 pm
@Bucsfanman … “Now that we have some semblance of an offensive line, that RB should be more successful, in theory.” Uhh, some semblance of an OLine? Have trouble buying into that one Bucsfanman. Right now we’ve got THREE pretty solid starters (Donovan Smith, Jensen & Marpet). That’s it. Sweezy is not cleared to play, and neither is Dotson. Personally have no desire to count on either one of them this year.
Our backups are Evan Smith (decent backup at Guard & Center), Benenoch (meh), Gettis (meh), Liedtke (meh) & Young (meh), Gardner (meh), Price (meh), Seaton (meh) and Wester (some potential). Lots of bodies, but wouldn’t want to see any of them starting.
We NEED a Guard (preferably LG) and a RT. Pick one up in the draft, and another in FA (or via a trade). Wouldn’t mind adding another OLineman as a reserve (or developmental player) who could play at least Guard & Tackle. RB, OLine and Secondary are our 3 major weaknesses right now (starters AND depth). Not holding my breath for Bucs to win the Super Bowl just yet.
April 18th, 2018 at 1:24 pm
6’2” is short for an NFL guard
April 18th, 2018 at 1:28 pm
@Defense Rules- Yea, I took some liberties there! I’m assuming that Jensen is going to elevate the entire o-line and Marpet back at OG gives us some “juice” in the middle.
Like most here, I’m assuming we draft one or more legit O-linemen. That would complete the o-line “puzzle” in my head. Call it apprehensive optimism!
April 18th, 2018 at 1:37 pm
I’ve been on Wynn for a while as our 22 in a Buffalo tradedown. If 4 QBs go early, and that’s looking like 1-9 right now, we won’t have a premium trade down opportunity. Taking Barkley and then getting Wynn at 38 would be the dream scenario. I totally agree with Joe about this defensive staff not being able to utilize a James or coach up an Evans. Let’s lay keep away.
A lot of teams will come out of the draft with three outside corners in a league where your 1 & 2 corners play every snap. There’ll be some good outside veteran corners come on the market. Pickgrin has pointed out that Spotrac has us cap-broke. Hopefully, Sweezy will have recovered enough that we can cut him. Maybe Pickgrin or one of the other guys can explain the ramifications of cutting Sweezy now versus later and how an injury settlement affects the cap.
April 18th, 2018 at 1:57 pm
Joe is not anti-Quenton Nelson.
April 18th, 2018 at 2:07 pm
@Bucsfanman … “Call it apprehensive optimism!” LOL … I’d say you’re a step ahead of my ‘cautious optimism’ at this point Bucsfanman. I agree Licht will draft at least 1 OLineman this year (possibly 2 but the 2nd would be a value 6th or 7th Rnd IMO). The biggest porblemI see right now is that we’ve now only got TWO picks in the 1st 2 days of the draft.
We NEED starters & key rotational players (RB, LG, RT, DE/DT, CB, SS) to compete in the NFC South this year … at least 6 more starters IMO. Even if we luck out & pick up 3 of those in the draft, we’d still have several starting holes. What’s really got me confused is that everyone seems to be talking using our 2 high draft picks on OFFENSE (RB & OLine) in the hope that we can outscore everyone. Ain’t gonna happen, not consistently at least. Without 2 new starters on OLine our offense will produce about the same as it has these past 3 years (been reasonably consistent BTW in terms of scoring). And without fixing our secondary our defense will be middle of the pack … at best. Still cautiously optimistic though …
April 18th, 2018 at 2:34 pm
DR – with the signings of JPP, Curry, Allen and Unrein to go along with GMC, Spence and Gholston. We are certainly reasonably OK with talent on the DL this year. Do we need to add young talent to that mix? Absolutely! But to say DL is a huge need after all those acquisitions is over stating IMO.
Dotson is fine at RT for this year if he can stay healthy and Conte/Tandy is an experienced and competent enough duo to handle SS duties for another year if we can’t upgrade the talent level there with a higher draft pick this year.
Our biggest “needs” are RB, CB and OG – in that order IMO. This draft lines up well with those needs and odds are good that GM Light will come out of this draft with a pretty good prospect at each of those positions.
Guarantee you our much maligned DBs already on the roster will look a lot better this year with some semblance of a pass rush which I fully expect to see in 2018. We’ve got a top 3 starting LB group which should also benefit greatly from better DL play – right?
Its not gonna be all unicorns and rainbows for the Bucs defense this year – but I believe we have enough talent in place already that with a couple good additions via the draft – our D can at least be middle of the pack in 2018. Fingers crossed…
April 18th, 2018 at 2:48 pm
Thanks macabee!
If there is a more informed Bucs fan than macabee, Joe is unaware. Joe’s pretty sure macabee reads every word typed about the Bucs. Daily. From multiple sources.
April 18th, 2018 at 3:38 pm
Trade with Buffalo 12 James, 22 Guice, 38 Wynn!!!
i’ll take that all day……
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!
April 18th, 2018 at 3:50 pm
Been telling y’all for 2 years we need o lord e help. Specifically a RT and LG (or opposite whichever side Marpet is on). I try to be an optimist but I have zero confidence that Dotson will be good this season.
Get a crushing o line in place and you can put any NFL caliber RB behind it, and they will be successful.
Build the trenches. Build a champion.
Simple as that.
April 18th, 2018 at 3:51 pm
*that we need offensive line help
April 18th, 2018 at 4:20 pm
Dotson is fine at RT for this year if he can stay healthy and Conte/Tandy is an experienced and competent enough duo to handle SS duties for another year if we can’t upgrade the talent level there with a higher draft pick this year.
——
Laughable at best. I bet you actually work for the Bucs explains why we suck so bad. Conte and Dotson as starters? COME ON MAN!!!!
April 18th, 2018 at 4:41 pm
🙂
Joe Says:
April 18th, 2018 at 2:48 pm
Thanks macabee!
If there is a more informed Bucs fan than macabee, Joe is unaware. Joe’s pretty sure macabee reads every word typed about the Bucs. Daily. From multiple sources.
Ya know, there was a similar reaction post from @Joe a week or two ago like the one above, and considering both posts by @macabee, it’s quite frankly a little odd. A lot odd. That post wasn’t even about the Bucs. ???. It was about Isaiah Wynn and O Linemen, not the Bucs. Like @macabee has dirt on @Joe or something. 🙂
There are several people that regularly post (and contribute additional content)here on JBF that do quite a fine job by all, open to interpretation by all, in different ways of course. “Awareness” levels aside.
It’s no offense to @macabee by any means….just really odd. But ok. Isaiah Wynn does seem like a decent prospect.
Go Bucs!
April 18th, 2018 at 4:51 pm
If you look at all the NFL Teams last year they all had more injuries than usual, the Bucs included. I have heard that is because the players union stopped two a day Practices and restricted practicing in pads so teams don’t get proper preparation which results in injury; then you have Koetter that has too easy practices to boot, so you just count on your starters to play all season, so even if we fill all of our starter holes do we have talented backups to be able to replace our starters as they go down and do we have top notch coaches to coach up the backups to be ready when called on. With the Bucs I think the answer to both is NO! Koetter needs to toughen up his practices to avoid injuries
April 18th, 2018 at 4:56 pm
@DB55
Dude, you proved the other day that you are incapable of even identifying which player is which on tape.
You can not sit here and pretend like you know what you’re talking about when you don’t even know who you’re looking at.You have zero foundation from which to build your argument.
Dotson is not Lane Johnson, but he is actually a pretty solid player when healthy, and been universally praised for his play on the field in 2017, by numerous, non-biased national outlets. Bleacher report, for example, had him ranked as the 5th best RT from last season.
April 18th, 2018 at 5:03 pm
And he also needs to get rid of poor assistants like our OL Coach and our CB and Safety and Special Teams Coaches. He also needs to tell his DC to study how he had such a good defense back in the second half of 2016 and start earning the money he is being paid. No laying off your corners and playing Lovie style zone defenses. Watch successful Defensive Coaches who use blitzes occasionally to keep the other team jumpy and worrying about blitzes on every play. And Licht needs to always look for upgrades to our depth, but he always seems to hire the worst third string players for preseason so I am unsure if he has the talent to find the best backups!!!
April 18th, 2018 at 6:06 pm
DB55 Says:
April 18th, 2018 at 10:49 am
Bucs right tackle Demar Dotson now a sudden question mark,
—————–
With all due respect and I hope SB (and others are listening) this is why I laugh when posters say “you know more than the experts”.
___________________
You know I still luv you bro even though there is Zero Chance that you know more than the experts!
April 18th, 2018 at 6:32 pm
Blake
What are you talking about? ID McIceCream giving up another goal line TD? Seriously? Lol, okay.
If anyone here would like to break down tape I’m happy to join you so you can educate me on why the Bucs have avg 6 wins per season since 2010 or so.
Please and while you’re at it maybe you can educate the glazers too. So that maybe possible the Bucs can win a playoff game before we all die.
April 18th, 2018 at 6:35 pm
Joe,
I hear Sapp is entering the podcasts game. Have you considered asking him to be a guest on either Justin or Ira’s shows?
April 18th, 2018 at 6:39 pm
I think you guys like to argue with me more so to defend your team than to prove me wrong. If you wanted to prove me wrong you’d provided sources (links) and videos but all you do is say DB55 doesn’t know what he’s talking about as we cling to another 5,4 and 2 win season. Lmao. Good for you! You are good little men towing the company line, well done yes-men.
April 18th, 2018 at 7:02 pm
@DB55
The other day you posted a video link and a time stamp and said, watch how bad “McIcecream gets beat on this play” only problem was, he wasn’t the Dlineman that got beat on the play. As he clearly takes on the double team and gives up zero ground, precisely what a DT is supposed to do on the goal line.
However, the player on the play that did get badly beaten and driven out of position was Sealver Siliga.
So there are one of 2 possibilities here, either you were looking at the wrong player and assumed it was McCoy, or you have zero Idea what Defensive line play looks like and expect a good player to split every single double team they face, which is a completely unrealistic expectation. Either way, your film evaluation is well below average.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERbESDhPDrg
Though if you want to see evidence of Gerald McCoy splitting a double team? Skip to 0:25 of the above link.
Pro Bowls are meaningless, #93 is no where near as good as Sapp, but year after year, McCoy is recognized by his fellow NFL peers, as a really good player. You just got BTFO by someone 4 beers deep. But something tells me you will ignore all of my points and stick to your ideology that is based in delusion.
April 18th, 2018 at 7:40 pm
@Pickgrin … ” I believe we have enough talent in place already that with a couple good additions via the draft – our D can at least be middle of the pack in 2018. Fingers crossed.” I agree with ya about ‘middle of the pack’ potential providing we add several of the right pieces in the draft and/or via FA. You may not see DE or DT as a NEED, but I do. We’ve got GMC & Allen at DT … that’s it IMO (Sorry but Siliga & Stevie T don’t get me excited, and I still don’t know what to think about Unrein). JPP & Curry have me excited about our DEs, but frankly I’m skeptical beyond that for several reasons (as in past history?). Our LB Corps is excellent IMO, although I still wish Smitty would switch Beckwith to MLB & Kwon outside. Our CBs concern me the most, especially since we’ve done nothing in FA (except re-sign Brent of course). Have serious doubts Licht will use a Rnd 1 or 2 pick on a CB (still holding out hope though), so anyone we draft in Rnd 4 or lower would be a developmental project. I like Evans but he’s still got a LOT of maturing to do (especially when it comes to tackling IMO) and I don’t see us drafting a SS high enough to beat out Conte or Tandy. I get what you’re saying about our DBs will look better, and it’s probably true, but it’ll still be the weakest area on the defense until we focus resources there.
April 19th, 2018 at 6:16 am
Just like you DB, you got mad trash to talk until you are proven a fool, and then you hush up.