Bettis: Jameis > 2018 QB Draft Class
April 12th, 2018
Bullish on America.
If Jerome Bettis was a betting man, he’d lay cash on America.
As Joe has mentioned, with draft fatigue setting in, the lunatic fringe has come out to play. Like one commenter here is confessed hater of America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston, and thinks the Bucs should trade him to Cleveland for a first, second and fourth round pick.
Of course, the commenter can’t make the logical leap that if some team would give up that sort of a haul for your 25-year old quarterback who has set NFL records, maybe, just maybe, you might want to hold onto him.
(A follower of Joe on Twitter this morning said he would trade Jameis for just one first round pick. Joe is guessing these folks sleep at night wearing Stewart McClown jerseys.)
Looking at this year’s quarterback class in the 2018 draft, a Hall of Fame player is inclined to believe in Jameis over the guys who will become rich later this month. And that is former Steelers running back Jerome Bettis.
Appearing on “Good Morning, Football” this week, seen weekday mornings on NFL Network, Bettis explained none of the soon-to-be rookies impresses him like Jameis.
“All of these guys are good, none of them are great in terms of, as college quarterbacks,” Bettis said. “All of these guys will have question marks. None of them are as polished as some of these quarterbacks that have come out in the past few years like a Jameis Winston where you can tell this guy here is a can’t-miss prospect. I don’t think any of these guys are that.”
That’s right. A Hall of Famer can see Jameis has it. But sadly, some unbalanced Bucs fans cannot.
Folks who want to give up on a guy after three years despite setting NFL passing marks, especially given this franchise’s disturbing history of signal-callers, may want to start laying off the sauce.
April 12th, 2018 at 12:09 pm
You are what your record says you are. The only “record” that counts in THIS game are WINS!
Right now he’s a “good/above average” QB on a bad football team………until he proves otherwise.
Yea, I’d take Jameis over any rookie. That’s a dumb argument. Those rookies in 4 years? That’ going to be the million (or 100’s of millions) dollar question.
April 12th, 2018 at 12:16 pm
Bucsfanman Says
“You are what your record says you are.”
That goes for a team so far as win vs losses.
But if a player is what his record is, then take a good look at Winston’s stats. Because if you are right, he’s pretty darn good.
April 12th, 2018 at 12:17 pm
well, the way I see it, Winston is/was a cant miss product…..dirk was hired to get the best/most out of him…..that hasn’t been the case…..sure he’s gotten better but he hasn’t progressed as some expected from a QB with his talent…..if dirk cant get him to the next level this year, meaning playoffs and being an all around better QB then we need to get someone in here that can get Winston to the next level…..much like what the rams did……
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!!!…..GO BUCS!!!!!!
April 12th, 2018 at 12:18 pm
“you are what your records says you are.”
This is a team sport. No player can win it all on their own and they can’t lose it on their own.
The Bucs defense has been horrible, the OLine has been suspect, we don’t have a quality RB, and yes Jameis has made some bad plays. But anyone who says “you are what your record says you are” when discussing one player is just parroting a reductive over-simplified misguided argument.
April 12th, 2018 at 12:19 pm
Jameis has always had “IT”.
Finish the job of shoring up the Oline and Dline!!
If you can make both better than average – watch how spectacularly your “inaccurate/turnover prone” Quarterback is capable of playing….
April 12th, 2018 at 12:21 pm
@ bucsfan
The bucs wins loss record sucks. Jameis has played well enough to have a winning record. If bortles can go to the conference championship with a strong defense then winston probably would be hoisting the lambardi trophy right now with running game and defense jacksonville posses. Judging jameis soley off win/loss record is just lazy and stupid. He cant kick a field goal, rush the passer and play cornerback all which have contributed more to the losses than jameis has.
April 12th, 2018 at 12:23 pm
Barring suspension/injury Jameis is going to have a helluva year!
April 12th, 2018 at 12:24 pm
bonzai
?????…..lol….
he’s talking about “W’s” “L’s”…….why you bringing up stats?…..QB’s are judged by “W’s” “L’s”…….that’s why brady and Montana are considered GOAT’s and marino isn’t…..
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!
April 12th, 2018 at 12:26 pm
Sure Joe..jameis shows signs…he has it. But when is he going to show us he has it? he’s 4 yrs in right now. We should see a lot of progress yearly. Not the SOS. Evey yr He is..Showing promise. Time to forfill it.
April 12th, 2018 at 12:26 pm
813
An honest question for you…Jameis aside although he could be included…but no matter who the player….is an injury and “excuse” or a fact?
For a team…is there ever a point where injuries are real and not excuses?
Would a six game suspension be an excuse for Jameis to miss his usual 4,000 yards?
[Let’s not get overly dramatic here. — Joe] the day before the season kicks off could that possible effect him or would that also be an excuse.
I hear ya and largely agree but sometimes I fear you get a bit carried away.
If you want to suggest that any whining about HK is just an excuse…I’m with you. If you want to suggest that any year we have people on here griping about the schedule and how hard it was…even if it was…that’s an excuse.
April 12th, 2018 at 12:28 pm
Webster
if blake wins 3rings and never throws over 4,000 yards and Winston throws for 6000 yards each season for the rest of his career without a ring who would be considered better?
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!!
April 12th, 2018 at 12:29 pm
Hey, those stats are great. Vinny Testaverde is top 10 in 3 categories ALL-TIME! Great stats!
I KNOW it’s a team game. Which is exactly my point. Individual stats mean d!ck!
I believe he can be a great QB but he has to prove it by winning. It’s the only thing, winning! If you don’t believe me re-read my 2nd sentence.
April 12th, 2018 at 12:30 pm
@ 813
No one calls marino goat, but EVERYBODY calls him great/1st ballot hall of famer. Your argument is weak.
April 12th, 2018 at 12:31 pm
If we don’t protect Winston he will NEVER reach his full potential. Injuries and below average offensive lines will determine Winston’s fate. He cannot throw deep when he is being hit before he can plant his back foot. I am not happy with our offense line at all. Our tackles are below avererage. Our guard play will improve with Marpet moving back where he belongs. However, unless they draft a guard or tackle in the first two rounds we are not giving Jamies Winston a chance to succeed.
April 12th, 2018 at 12:35 pm
@ 813
Bradshaw has 4 rings. Who is better…….bradshaw or Marino? Dilfer/flaco/johnson/hostetler/simms/folks/williams etc all have one ring. Are any of them better than marino? He11 NO!!!! Again it takes a team to win a superbowl. Let me know when that sinks in.
April 12th, 2018 at 12:38 pm
THEY WERE WHO WE THOUGHT THEY WERE!!!!! – Dennis Greene
April 12th, 2018 at 12:42 pm
@ bucfan
No his individual stats can put him in the hall of fame like fouts or marino because those who are not blind know those players are great regardless if their teams did not win the big one. Just like you have to be blind if you cant see jameis is far from reason this team is not winning. Individual success does mean something
April 12th, 2018 at 12:50 pm
If the defense / K game didn’t collapse last year in so many games we finish at 8-8 or 9-7.
At a minimum – Winston basically won us games against Buffalo / Greenbay / Carolina if the D just held the late leads.
So as a starter – he’s basically averaged 8-9 wins per year if you adjust for just those 3 games. That’s 3-4 more wins per year than the 6 years of dog sh1t before we drafted him.
So even if you want to only focus on Wins and losses; he’s improved that for the team as well; as crazy as that seems given we only won 5 games last year. Even if you don’t adjust for the games our defense f*cked him out of game-winning drives; he’s increased the average wins by like 2 per season compared to the 6 years of dogsh1t prior
April 12th, 2018 at 12:50 pm
Hey Joe. What is your problem? My comments are “awaiting moderation” for far too long. I am respectful and use zero cuss words. So I must ask. What is the problem here?
April 12th, 2018 at 12:50 pm
Doug Williams, Steve Young, heck I’ll even say Trent Dilfer (although he’s not even in the same class as the other 2) but they all have something in common, they were QBs in Tampa that were given up on and then went somewhere else and won a championship. I hope we don’t give up on Jameis and then regret that one as well. I’d honestly love to see a list of players that were with Tampa and were given up on and went somewhere else and became key reasons that team won a championship.
April 12th, 2018 at 12:52 pm
Marine:
Joe has no problem. Joe doesn’t write computer code. Filter is flagging your comments for some reason. Could be as innocent at the filter doesn’t recognize your IP address, which is unusual looking at it.
As far as “too long,” Joe has to confess that he cannot babysit the comments section 24/7 waiting for a comment to pop up in moderation. Joe has to stories to write, podcasts to record, podcasts to edit and upload, phone calls, people to visit, etc. Sometimes, Joe is actually away from the computer for hours.
Don’t have the budget or staff to pay someone to only stare at a moderation screen and hit the F5 button every 30 seconds.
April 12th, 2018 at 12:52 pm
Your QB has to throw an inch-perfect 10 yard pass on third and eight. I’ll take Jameis and you can have whomever you want.
Certainly, No quarterback in the league right now has more experience throwing on third and 8 after two bang-your-head-against-the-wall, totally predictable one yard runs on first and second down.
April 12th, 2018 at 12:53 pm
STPETE
every team has injuries…..they are apart of the game just like penalties and replays…..every team has suspensions….that’s part of the game just like contract extensions and cuts…..
member when we were sitting at 6-6 riding a 3 game winning streak…..kwon had to sit…..that had a major effect on the defense but no one gave lovie that excuse…..they said he should’ve been prepared….they said he should’ve had a plan in place and we should’ve have missed a beat……no excuses….
unfortunately, deaths happen every year to players loved ones and coaches…..when kwon’s brother passed away, did he mail it in and have a sh!t performance?……when favre’s dad passed away, did he not have one of if not the best game on his career…..they played inspired and motivated….they could’ve but didn’t make excuses……
when tedford had a heart problem, no excuse was made when we went 2-14 and had marcus ayyro running the offense……
thing is every team faces adversity every season in some form……teams that are mentally strong fight thru adversity…..the teams that fail to fight make excuses…..
this year, no one has any excuses…..not dirk….he has weapons and has known about Winston’s situation since November…..plenty of time to form a plan for the offense……smitty has talent and depth along the dline……Winston aint a rookie or 2nd year player……licht has been here 5 years!!!….lol….
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!!
April 12th, 2018 at 12:56 pm
webster Says:
April 12th, 2018 at 12:30 pm
@ 813
No one calls marino goat
and why is that?…….because he doesn’t have the rings….aka “W’s”……you make my point silly rabbit….lol…..
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!!
April 12th, 2018 at 12:56 pm
Thanks Joe. Don’t be a Zuckerburg. Lol
April 12th, 2018 at 12:58 pm
Ha!!! Joe doesn’t believe in forcing folks to think a certain way. 🙂
April 12th, 2018 at 1:02 pm
webster
even marino said he’ll trade in his bust and records for 1 rings……because at the end of the day, that’s all you’ll be remembered for……stats and records come and go……marino aint got many records left…..manning favre and brady have them all!!!!…..rings will always be with you!!!!!
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!!
April 12th, 2018 at 1:03 pm
Understood. No problem. As long as I am not being singled out for moderation I will shut up and comply.
April 12th, 2018 at 1:05 pm
@ 813
You are the only silly rabbit. So a qb is of no use to you if they are not called goat? So you only acknowledge 2 qbs out of the whole history of the nfl? Now i see why your comments about jameis is so idiotic. Again Marino is called great 1st ballot hall of famer. I dont need goat in order to win. I will take great 7 days a week silly rabbit. Get a clue will you.
April 12th, 2018 at 1:17 pm
@ 813
Having no rings has nothing to do with whether or not a player is great. Again, it takes a team to win a ring
April 12th, 2018 at 1:18 pm
If we’re saying Winston has been average his first 3 yrs in the league that’s more than likely his floor. If you have a 24 yr old QB who’s floor is average you can only expect that he’ll get better in time as long as he’s willing to keep putting in the work.
April 12th, 2018 at 1:33 pm
Webster
how are my comments about Winston idiotic?…….I think he’s great….I love Winston to death…..
you think that Winston’s stats are more important than “W” and “L”…..
I said “w” and “l” are more important……
Dilfer/flaco/johnson/hostetler/simms/folks/williams etc were all great for their teams during their SB run…..no doubt about that…..but are they better than the GOAT’s?…NO!!!…..
but those QB’s did something great and have something to show for it…..ring(s)…..
in a few years the only marino will have left is a bust, a jersey and his name in the ring of honor….just like hundreds of other players…..
you say you’ll take a great HOF QB with no rings all day……lol….that’s on you!!!…..be a loser….win nothing…..
give me a manning, brady, Montana, stable, starbach, Elway, young, aikman,warner, broadway joe all day!!!!!!
and yes, Winston is in ^that class……
now run back down your hole silly rabbit!!!!!
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!
April 12th, 2018 at 1:36 pm
Webster
rings define greatness!!!!!…not stats……
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!
April 12th, 2018 at 2:01 pm
This is the JOE that loves loves loves Jameis
The other JOE just loves Jameis
I agree In saying this qb class doesn’t get me excited. Glad teams are desperate for quarterbacks this year Need a sure thing stud starter to drop in our laps.
April 12th, 2018 at 2:06 pm
When a play causes a WR, TE, RB to be wide open and the throw is way way off again and again and again is it the Coaches fault? Is he throwing the ball? I want our QB to play his bst ball here in Tampa. But if he is still missing wide open passes on all levels of the field who is responsible?
April 12th, 2018 at 2:20 pm
@ 813
I am sorry to tell you but your mind is warped. There are countless hall of famers without rings. What hall of famer do you know that is not great? The answer is zero because they would not be in the hall of fame. You must be smoking some seriously good $#!+. Again, wins and losses are a team effort. And you like not answering my question. I gave you a list of qbs and simply asked where any of them better than marino and just like someone who knows their argument is weak, you deflect to goat. Pitiful. I will answer for you…He11 no they are not better than marino and thats evidence that it takes a team to win it all. And you obviously have reading comphrehension skills and you are putting words in my mouth. Not once did i say i would take great with no rings so you are the loser for putting words in my mouth. I said you dont need goat to win. You can win with great. This is what i mean by great……bradshaw, aikman, young, roger stauback, farve, rodgers, manning, rothlesberger, stabler. And yes, i value marino, kelly, fouts, moon even without the rings because it takes a team. See you are the only that overlooks greats and only value brady or montana. Again you are the only silly rabbit
April 12th, 2018 at 2:29 pm
@Webster
You are breaking a major rule!!!! Trying to talk sense to the senseless!!!!!!!!! The best way is to just let him ramble off non-sense and he will think he won some argument and will slowly fade away!!!!!!!!! He thinks he wins these conversations, when the truth is, his reality is so unraveled no one knows what he is talking about and he repeats his drivel over and over again!!!!!!
GO Bucs!!!!!!!!!!!!
April 12th, 2018 at 2:37 pm
I remember when Jameis was at FSU Bomani Jones I think it was nicknamed him Jameis Squintston. I’m sure everyone has seen him squint to see the scoreboard, wonder if he needs contacts or something and that is partly affecting his accuracy. I know he’s not missing his targets all the time but I’m just wondering if there is more to his inability to consistently hit the deep ball.
April 12th, 2018 at 2:38 pm
I doubt Bettis called him the silly “America’s Quarterback”
April 12th, 2018 at 2:41 pm
813 is a die hard Jameis fan you guys…trust me.
Give it a break anyway. People on here try to speak down to people all the time. Show how smart they are.
Who cares.
April 12th, 2018 at 2:47 pm
24 year old Jameis. He do great this year.
April 12th, 2018 at 2:48 pm
The conversations about Jameis border on hilarious sometimes. Some talk as though the ONLY reason this team was 5-11 was because of the defense. Some point to his 4,000 yards in 3 consecutive season make him “uber” (!!!) special in today’s pass happy NFL.
Perhaps, when it’s all said and done we will be able to point at Jameis and say that he’s the GOAT, or even HOF.
HE IS NOT THERE YET! OK?! HE JUST ISN’T.
I’m not saying he can’t be but you guys act like we’re coming off back-to-back playoff runs. And to have him even in the same conversation as ANY HOF is disrespectful to those players.
It takes a team to win but there is not a more important player on a team than the QB. If you don’t think he needs work, please tell me what you’re smoking. There is NOBODY on this team that does not need work.
Jameis is a good player and he plays for the team I root for. For all the money I have poured into the Bucs franchise over the years I have every right to critique his play. He ain’t Tom Brady, or Marino, or Vinny Testaverde!
April 12th, 2018 at 2:49 pm
@ realist
I am seeing that. Tampa really have some of the dumbest fan. Now i am suppose to believe that someone with a gold jacket and a bust in canton means nothing. Smdh. Well i guess players like bernie williams was greater than ken griffey too. Gtfoh
April 12th, 2018 at 2:54 pm
Bucfan is another poster putting words in peoples mouth. Show me one post where anyone said jameis did not need work. Show me a post where someone put jameis in with hall of famers. No what is being said is jameis is good enough right now to win consistently. Unfortunately his team is not. Qbs with less talent are winning because of the overall team ala bortels/mariota 12 tds 15 ints. If you cant see that then you are smoking something.
April 12th, 2018 at 2:58 pm
thank you for the post.
signed
UNBALANCED
April 12th, 2018 at 3:00 pm
**************
“You are what your record says you are” is ONLY ABOUT “TEAMS” and NEVER ABOUT INDIVIDUAL PLAYERS … loon.
Anyways … I agree with Bettis … basically since Peyton Manning came into the league in 1998, the only two prospects that even compare are Andrew Luck and Jameis Winston, that’s it.
Now, that’s not to say Luck and Winston are the best QB’s since Manning, as obviously Brady, Brees and Rodgers are the three best since Peyton … but … as “college prospects”, Luck and Jameis were the best “prospects”.
This year, Sam Darnold is, to me, WHITE JAMEIS with a slightly smaller arm and a bit lower football IQ … if you’ve ever wondered what Jameis would look like if he was white, just watch Darnold play.
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April 12th, 2018 at 3:04 pm
******************
813,
I hear what you’re saying and I don’t think anyone wants Jameis to have Marino’s career instead of Peyton Mannings … that’s not really even debatable.
The question for many seems to be, would you want Jameis to have Marino’s career or Trent Dilfer’s career? Diehard Bucs team fans SHOULD say “Dilfer” as that would mean that while Jameis would have to buy a ticket to canton and would be regarded as a bum by most, the Bucs team would win one championship. However, Jameis fans and maybe just football fans in general like me will likely answer “Marino” as they’d rather see Jameis enshrined in Canton and become an immortal QB than just some junk QB that happened to win a ring like Dilfer.
So … what career would YOU rather see Jameis have? Marino’s or Dilfer’s?
**************
April 12th, 2018 at 3:04 pm
Webster
I answered your question….what more do you want?…lol….thry reading it one more time…only slower…..
its obvious that you’ll settle for mediocrity…..that’s cool…..what ever floats your boat…..
but I want greatness…..which comes with rings….im sure Winston will agree with me…..he wants rings not stats…..
here’s a nice little carrot for you silly rabbit……tricks are for kids…stats are for losers!!!!!
#NNOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!!
April 12th, 2018 at 3:10 pm
NUT
your a smart man!!!!!…..and I’m a die hard bucs and Winston fan….my answer would be
DILFER!!!!!
RINGS MAKE YOU IMMORTAL!!!!!
I want Winston to be a champion…..that’s it….everything else is icing on the cake…..
everyone knows their are plenty of losers in the HOF……
my question for you is, who do you think stays up late at night thinking about what could’ve been?….dan or trent?….
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!!
April 12th, 2018 at 3:12 pm
rhealist
pull your skirt down!!!!!!!……keep your head up!!!!!!!
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!!…GO BUCS!!!!!
April 12th, 2018 at 3:16 pm
webster- See any quotes in my post? I’m not putting words in people’s mouths, people are talking about how great Jameis is and how great Marino was and on and on. Same conversation. I posted the same thing over and over and some didn’t like it.
Frankly, I’m only pointing out the obvious. Jameis is part of the reason we were 5-11 last year. That is FACT!
Like it or not, his record as the starter is 18-28. That’s not acceptable.
April 12th, 2018 at 3:17 pm
The bucs defense was ranked last in every catagory yet bucfan want to pass the blame. Let me educate mr. Bucfan. I think everyone will agree that drew brees is a great player and a future 1st ballot hall of famer. Here are some numbers for the uneducated who feel winston is holding this team back.
2013 saints defense ranked 4th in pts against & 4th in overall defense….record 11-5
2014 saints defense ranked 28th in pts and 31st overall…..the record 7-9
2015 saints defense ranked 32nd in pts and 31st overall….the record 7-9
2016 saints defense ranked 31st in pts and 27th overall….the record 7-9
2017 saints defense ranked 10th in pts and 17th overall…..the record 11-5
I post those numbers for all of the idiots who are putting winning and losing soley on the qb. Even the great drew brees future hall of famer could not overcome a crap defense. The fact you idiots think a 23 year old should be able to is the reason we have the dumbest fans in sports. Its really not that hard. And yes, brees put up good numbers during those losing years. He even made the pro bowl during those times but im learning today that individual stats and accolades means nothing. Smdh. Brees is proof positive that just because the team sucks does not mean you do not have a good qb. Jameis is plenty good enough. Notice i did not say great before posters like bucfan and 813 jump on and put words in my mouth
April 12th, 2018 at 3:19 pm
The ring is everything to a team, but it’s not the only thing to measure a player by.
How many people on this comment thread would disagree that Barry Sanders was probably one of the Greatest, if not the greatest RB ever to play the game?
If Barry had Emmit’s offensive line, Jimmy, Troy Aikman, Michael Irvin, Defense with Prime Time, Norton and Haley would he have been great and won Super Bowls like Emmit did? Yes.
If Emmit had Barry’s Head Coaches, offensive line, run and shoot offense, QB, and defense would he have been great like Barry was? I don’t know. That’s from a Gators fan.
Team Sports Championship are not about the individual. They are about the whole.
April 12th, 2018 at 3:19 pm
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^ 813,
I know you’re a die-hard Bucs fan so I respect your answer as it’s the only answer you should give.
However, I of course am not a die-hard fan of any team and just follow the game in general and various players, and as such I would much rather see Winston have Marino’s career than Dilfer’s.
In my view, rings won by teams are rather irrelevant when it comes individual greatness. Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hostettler, Brad Johnson and other junk QBs that happened to win a ring are not “immortal”; in fact they’ve already been completely forgotten by basically all fans outside the cities or states they won a ring in.
Fran Tarkenton and Dan Marino on the other hand are indeed “immortal” and will never be forgotten. They are enshrined in Canton and fans no them in all NFL cities. In fact, many still consider Marino the greatest pure passer that ever lived.
The simple fact is that every single year at least 53 players receive a “ring” and around 95% of those players will never really be remembered when their careers end, other than by fans of the team they won that ring with. Yet, ONLY ONE player receives the MVP award, and he’ll likely be remembered for decades by fans across the league.
There are thousands and thousands of SB “rings” in existence and most are of players no one can name … the HOF features the true immortals.
Just my two cents.
P.S. As to your question about Marino and Dilfer … Dilfer is on the record as saying he would have rather maximized his individual potential than won a ring … and I have no doubt Marino would be disgusted with himself had he had Dilfer’s career instead of his own, even though he never won a ring.
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April 12th, 2018 at 3:21 pm
Is Jameis on a team NUT?! Yeah, therefore it’s his record too. You might disagree with my take but I am no loon.
April 12th, 2018 at 3:25 pm
BELLEGLADEBUC,
You’re being far too sensible and logical for many on this forum, tone it down.
In all serious, you are, of course, 100% correct.
In fact, fans basically ignore wins and losses with every position other than QB.
MOST fans and even players and the media would rank Barry Sanders ahead of Emmitt, Randy Moss ahead of Michael Irvin, Anthony Munoz ahead of almost any lineman who ever won a ring, Dan Marino ahead of Terry Bradshaw, Derrick Thomas ahead of countless LB’s with a ring, etc., etc., etc.,.
TEAM wins mean next to nothing when evaluating INDIVIDUAL excellence.
It’s no different in any sport or even a workplace …
April 12th, 2018 at 3:26 pm
@ bucfan
The more you post the more you expose yourself. Please carry on. Posting jameis record as a starter without taking into account how crap the team has been all over is just stupid. As i posted in my previous post, brees and the saints won when the defense was good and they sucked when the defense was crap. Bucfan, brees record when the saints defensed sucked was 21 – 27. Wow, brees way to show how to overcome a bad defense. Btw..jameis record is 18 -27 as a starter.
April 12th, 2018 at 3:26 pm
How is anyone a Buc fan who lost more games than they won n thoer history blames JW for losing?
April 12th, 2018 at 3:30 pm
webster- I’m sorry I upset you. Clearly I have touched a nerve!
For the LAST time, here is what I have said over and over:
PLEASE READ CAREFULLY:
“Jameis is part of the reason we were 5-11 last year. That is FACT!”
What part of “PART” don’t you understand? You’re saying that the defense is responsible for the overthrown/underthrown balls? The LEAGUE-LEADING fumbles? Oh, and don’t forget those pesky little interceptions that the defense is responsible for!
Nobody absolved the defense or special teams of anything.
I want Jameis to be special. I’m a Bucs fan. He’s not. Yet.
April 12th, 2018 at 3:34 pm
@ 813
You did not answer my question. I asked was bradshaw, dilfer, johnson etc better than marino? Your answer was goat. If you call that answering my question than i can tell you failed many test in school that is if you did not drop out. Im betting drop out by your arguments. You are a dumb poster period. In done responding to your dumb post with putting words in my mouth. I even explained to you dropout @$$ what greatness is and you are talking about i want mediocrity. You are the mediocre poster trying to flip flop your arguments. The realist put me up on your game and i as i posted in my very 1st post to you…..you are WEAK! #MEDIOCRE #DROPOUT
April 12th, 2018 at 3:35 pm
***************
Bucsfanman,
I never mentioned you by name but you took immediate offense, which means you must, even subconsciously, know you’re view is a loonie view.
Yes, Jameis is one part of a team of 52 other players and many coaches. Even with the added responsibility a QB has and the added amount of plays where his hand touches the ball, he only accounts for 5-10% at most of a win or a loss.
This isn’t hard to understand.
For example, let’s say there are two high school students on a test-taking team.
Student A scores the highest of any of the test-takers on either Team 1 or Team 2, with a 95%, however his 9 “teammates” each only score a 65% each, so his “team” receives a final score of 68%.
Student B scores the second highest of any of the test-takers on either Team 1 or Team 2, with a mere 75%, however his 9 “teammates” each score a 70%, so his “team” receives a final score of 70.5%.
In the above scenario “Student A” was infinitely better than ALL the other students, yet his team lost … it’s the same in ALL “team” sports … that anyone has a hard time understanding this simple fact is mystifying to me, but then again, IQs have been dropping across the board for decades and a lot of people are quite dull these days.
I’m not saying the above to insult anyone but it is a fact, a fact that most people never consider … it’s relevant and not everyone has the same capacity for understanding and evaluation of data … simply watching one episode of ESPN’s “First Take” will confirm this as it is clear to see that many of the arguments Max Kellerman makes go right over Stephen A Smith’s head and he just can’t seem to comprehend the issue or the data being presented or the logic being expounded. I have no doubt at all that if both Max and Stephen A were to take an IQ test that Max would score at least 20% higher.
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April 12th, 2018 at 3:36 pm
“Expose myself”?! As what? A fan that wants his team to win games?!
Yep, you got me there!!!
April 12th, 2018 at 3:41 pm
Tom Brady is one of the greatest QB’s of all time. Because football rules of play are ever changing, it’s impossible to compare QB’s across the years and generations. To many variables have changed over time to allow anybody to make a valid statement about whose the GOAT. Baseball you can do that as the rules have been the same for the most part for generations.
Tom Brady does not win his first 3 championships if he does not have the #6 ranked defense, #1 ranked defense, and #2 ranked defense as well as a Hall of Fame Kicker.
They shutdown the Greatest Shoe on Turf as they bent and never broke.
The win against the Panthers was a defensive slug fest for 3 quarters. The Pats defense ran out of gas in the 4th quarter, so Brady, who did not perform well for 3 quarters picked his team up with the rest of the offense and the Pats won in a fourth quarter shootout. That’s what teammates do on great teams.
They shutdown Westbrook, Owens and McNabb and made up for Brady’s multiple turnovers in the Pats Super Bowl win over the Eagles. That’s what teams do. They pick each other up.
GOAT talk is fun, but it diminishes the team. You win as a team and lose as a team. The teams record is a reflection on the team, not just one individual.
April 12th, 2018 at 3:42 pm
@ bucfan
And read what i said. IF THE DEFENSE AND SPECIAL TEAMS AND RUNNING GAME DID NOT SUCK, JAMEIS/BUCS WOULD BE WINNING. FACT. Why? Because he is good enough to win consistently. Why? Because we have seen qbs with lesser talent get to the playoffs and some have even won super bowls. Its really not that hard to understand but i guess it is if you do not understand the team concept thing.
April 12th, 2018 at 3:44 pm
NUT- I’m just a fan who values wins over individual records and accolades. That’s all. It’s a point that is getting cloudied. Jameis is easily the best passer we have ever had. What’s wrong with wanting improvement?
As Jameis goes we go on offense. I think we can agree on that, right? He’s got the weapons, now it’s his turn.
Loonie? Eh?! My wife would certainly agree with that!
April 12th, 2018 at 3:45 pm
nut
that’s your option…..I respect that….I feel that way about basketball…..no favor team just like the game…..
imo, rings make you immortal because your etched in history…..that’s something that you’ll always have….no one can top you…they can only join you…..many of HOF have stats and records that will be broken and passed….that the beauty of the game…..
every players plays this game to win a ring……teams sign players to help them win a ring….they don’t sign players to get to the HOF…..
now, dan has been in front of a camera saying, he would rather have a ring vs all his stats and records because those can be taken…..check out his nfl life story on nfl network….the famous quote was, ” I don’t know what it feels like to walk off the field a champion”……dan is what in his 50’s and he’s still thinking about “what if”…”what could’ve been”……
now im sure trent would’ve liked to have better stats…..sure…I bet brady and manning would’ve liked better stats too…..but ive heard trent say he is content on what he accomplished in the nfl and wouldn’t trade his ring for nothing…..he is forever a champion…..and he has something that “maybe” the best pure passer doesn’t have….that feeling of walking off the field a champion……
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!!!
April 12th, 2018 at 3:49 pm
Webster- Dude we are talking in the same circles! Jameis is as much a part of the team as the defense etc…
If you’re a fan, then we want the same thing. I’ll leave it at that.
April 12th, 2018 at 3:52 pm
From everything I’ve seen Bettis right.
Still not a legit HOF’er, but on this issue he’s right.
April 12th, 2018 at 3:54 pm
@ bucfan
Since jameis has been in the the bucs have finished in the top 10 of total offense twice. Last year they did it without a running game because jameis and the bucs were 4th in passing. Yes jameis can improve but are we not going to be happy unless the bucs are #1 in yards and 1st in passing. At some point the other parts of the team has to show they can finish near the top in something and that would go a long way with winning and losing. Jameis is not the problem. Far from it
April 12th, 2018 at 3:56 pm
If the defense was just 15, that would add atleast 5 wins
April 12th, 2018 at 3:57 pm
Bucsfanman Says:
April 12th, 2018 at 12:09 pm
You are what your record says you are. The only “record” that counts in THIS game are WINS!
Right now he’s a “good/above average” QB on a bad football team………until he proves otherwise.
Yea, I’d take Jameis over any rookie. That’s a dumb argument. Those rookies in 4 years? That’ going to be the million (or 100’s of millions) dollar question.
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How many games did the defense squander the lead late??
April 12th, 2018 at 3:57 pm
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813 and FANMAN,
Thanks for the cordial and sensible replies … I like reading both of your posts, and as you are both die-hard Bucs fans, your views make perfect sense for you.
My children want to get off the computer … have a great day all!
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April 12th, 2018 at 3:58 pm
Rod Munch Says:
April 12th, 2018 at 3:52 pm
From everything I’ve seen Bettis right.
Still not a legit HOF’er, but on this issue he’s right.
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Hard to be a “legit hall of famer” three years into your career.
April 12th, 2018 at 3:58 pm
NFLNut- BTW, no offense taken. 🙂
April 12th, 2018 at 3:59 pm
Webster
this is what is said:
Dilfer/flaco/johnson/hostetler/simms/folks/williams etc were all great for their teams during their SB run…..no doubt about that…..but are they better than the GOAT’s?…NO!!!…..
i’ll take bradshaw over dan…..I think he’s better…..he sure made his team better around him…..but that’s me….I like winners!!!!!…..
you acting like dan played on a team full of scubs his entire career…..he went to the SB as a rookie……he played with other HOF’s……he has all the stats….that’s all fine and dandy but is he a champion?……..no!!!!!!!
its clear the you want Winston to have all the passing records with all the stats and NO ring…..you would be fine with that…..I could care less about stats….I would “W” and rings…..
we drafted him #1 to bring us rings……not stats…..
down the hole you go silly rabbit…..pull rhealist shirk down while your down there!!!!!
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!…GO BUCS!!!!!
April 12th, 2018 at 4:03 pm
NUT
no prob….see you later…..
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!…GO BUCS!!!!
April 12th, 2018 at 4:11 pm
Webster
drew brees is a bad example….he’s a champion…..folks will know drew for bringing a championship to new Orleans….not a bunch of records that will eventually be broken by winston…..lol…..
so who’s better……drew or one of those QB’s you listed that don’t have a ring?…..
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!!
April 12th, 2018 at 4:20 pm
813 and anyone else, can we stop putting these OK QBs who won a SuperBowl with great Defenses ahead of great QBs that had no Defense. No one can watch Dilfer and Flacco play and then watch Marino play and say they’re better than Dan. Of course I want Winston to have the “career” as Dilfer, meaning a ring. But I also want him to have the career as Marino, stud QB that has his team in it every year.
April 12th, 2018 at 4:34 pm
We’re going round and round and yet we all want the same thing, a winning football team for a change. I think there are lots of valid points throughout and I definitely appreciate our differences.
To say any ONE aspect of this team is the reason we went 5-11 is simply not accurate. It’s a symbiotic relationship, each feeds, or starves the other. Coaching, Kicking, Defense, and Offense TOGETHER put this team at 5-11.
As fans, we’re worn out from losing. What’s the ONLY cure? WINNING!
Good banter! One day, hopefully, we’ll hoist that Lombardi again. And, if at the end of a solid career where Jameis has led this team and put up numbers like Brees, maybe we’ll put another Buc or two into the Hall. Until next time, I’m out!
April 12th, 2018 at 4:52 pm
You’d win more games without tutti frutti rainbow sprinkles McIceCream
April 12th, 2018 at 4:52 pm
Woulda been 8-8 if McIceCream could hold his gap.
April 12th, 2018 at 5:14 pm
eric
I didn’t say dilfer was better than marino…..and I don’t think anyone else did…..I said I could care less about marino’s records…..I could care less about stats……
Winston may not be able to have his cake and eat it too…..screw the stats….I want rings….
so, as a buc fan, if the football gods said Winston can either have a bust or a ring but not both, which would you choose?…..im choosing the ring….im sure Winston would agree with me…..
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!
April 12th, 2018 at 5:18 pm
@813
Who was the better running back. Antwan Smith with the Patriots or Barry Sanders with his zero rings with the Lions?
Who will be remembered outside of their regions, have NFL Documentaries made about him, fans and experts talk about him, Barry or Smith.
Drew Brees is a HOF, with or without the ring. But you seem to forget that Manning threw the pick that made him a champion. Bree’s had nothing to do with that play. He was on the sidelines.
Teams win championships. Not QB’s alone.
April 12th, 2018 at 5:21 pm
@ 813
The steelers won 4 superbowls because of defense. Stop playing. They are called the steel curtin. Flacco, dilfer, mcmahon, johnson all won super bowls due to defense. That defense made bradshaw better. As for brees, he is a great example. When the saints won the super bowl, their defense was very good and lead the league in turnovers. When the defense sucked so did the overall record for the team. Brees could not keep the team from sucking when the d was horrible. Yes he is the perfect example because even a hall of fame qb cant over come a sorry defense.
April 12th, 2018 at 5:23 pm
@ belleglade
And farve threw the pick the week before to put the saints in the super bowl. Again, brees was on the sidelines while that took place
April 12th, 2018 at 5:30 pm
Win more rings without McIceCream
April 12th, 2018 at 5:32 pm
And anyone who would take bradshaw over marino is surely smoking something. This man threw 212 tds and 210 ints. Gtfoh. You really cant be serious
April 12th, 2018 at 5:42 pm
you guys want to see the boys working out? check this out! now who ya gonna believe.
https://www.facebook.com/antonor.winston/videos/1950487345281212/
April 12th, 2018 at 5:43 pm
trust me. watch this. Mike, OJ, Freddie, O’leary, Auclair and Jameis. TODAY> LIVE
April 12th, 2018 at 6:02 pm
@ 813
You are right, dan marino did play with another hall of famer, his center who he played with from 1983 – 1987. Not exactly the collection of stars from the steel curtain, cowboys and raiders from the 70’s or the collection the 49ers of the 80s and 90s or the cowboys of the 90s or the broncos with hof davis, sharpe, gary zimmerman etc. Its all about team. You cant name one running back worth anything that played with marino. The only players you can name are the two wide outs clayton and duper. You are really disrepecting marino. He was great, but his team was not.
April 12th, 2018 at 7:42 pm
Anyone who wants to get rid of Jameis isn’t a real buc fan or hasn’t been a buc fan for any length of time. Jameis is the first real franchise qb the bucs have ever had. This town blows my mind complaining about Jameis. They obviously don’t remember all the scrubs that came before him. If we had a guy like him when sapp brooks and company were here this team would have been a dynasty more prolific than any in nfl history. Put it in the bank. FR3
April 12th, 2018 at 8:43 pm
Jameis gonna shut some mouths this year.
April 12th, 2018 at 9:57 pm
Name ANY great QB in history that carried his team to championships with a BELOW LEAGUE AVERAGE defense. Any! I’m waiting (and need the stats to back up your claim)
April 12th, 2018 at 10:02 pm
I looked it up myself and turns out, it’s extremely rare. Basically, only 1 time each by Peyton, Eli Manning, or Drew Brees. That’s it. Not Super Joe, Not Super Tom, nobody else.
Jameis is never going to be Peyton or Drew or Tom Brady. He can be the next tier down, and that is good enough to win championships, but you need COACHING AND DEFENSE. Those putting the Bucs’ woes squarely on Jameis’ shoulders are just WRONG. Plain & Simple.
April 12th, 2018 at 10:14 pm
^ Jameis is better right now than Eli Manning has ever been, and Jameis is also more skilled than Drew Brees by quite a bit … Peyton Manning is a whole other beast but Jameis and Luck are the best prospects since Manning … we’ll see what happens.
April 13th, 2018 at 1:42 am
Just to play devil’s advocate, why don’t people mention Steve Spurrier, Vinny Testaverde, Steve Deberg, Chris Chandler, Craig Erickson, Shaun King, Chris Simms, etc? We got rid of them too. But, none of them won SBs on their own….maybe as a backup? You can’t keep a player because of FOMO.
As much as I criticize Jameis Winston, we have not given him a complete team to see what he can do. Until then, we can criticize his mistakes but we can’t say he’s a winner or loser just yet.
Dan Marino never had a complete team like Bradshaw, Montana, Brady. You can’t compare players by wins and losses. Nor can you compare players by their stats unless they’re on the same team. You could compare Lynn Swann to John Stallworth for example – that would be fair.