New Look Defensive Line
March 23rd, 2018
Forgotten.
This actually has Joe stoked.
Yeah, Joe is all worked up for the Bucs to actually have a legitimate edge rusher for the first time since Michael Bennett was on the team. Damn, so this is what it is supposed to be like?
It is pretty obvious the defensive line has been totally overhauled. And so last night after watching some quality college basketball upsets, Joe started thinking/dreaming of what might be the pass rush of the Bucs this fall.
On passing downs, Joe is guessing on this late March morning, at left defensive end you have Jason Pierre-Paul. At tackles would be stud Gerald McCoy and Vinny Curry, who played a lot of tackle last year. At right defensive end, Noah Spence.
If Spence is healthy, he can actually scare quarterbacks.
So with these four, Joe suspects the Bucs won’t have 22 sacks this fall. Could they get 30 or 35? Hey, standards are so low around here about sacks, 35 quarterback sacks would be reason to throw a parade.
Joe is just going to guess the Bucs won’t rely on Will Gholston to get a sack this season.
March 23rd, 2018 at 8:38 am
Derwin, RB, round 4 CB/DLine, Oline depth
March 23rd, 2018 at 8:39 am
On Passing Downs
RDE Noah Spence
RDT Gerald McCoy
LDT Vinny Curry
LDE Jason Pierre-Paul
March 23rd, 2018 at 8:40 am
Just hope one of the Big 3 fall to us
RB DE OG
March 23rd, 2018 at 8:40 am
It has great potential, need the backend shored up, wouldnt mind getting a guy like eric reid back there to help out with justin evans and need 3 more corners, would like to see beckwith in the middle a little more
March 23rd, 2018 at 8:42 am
Can Noah stay healthy?I doubt it cause that shoulder has been a problem since he stepped in the stadium at Ohio state.however,he is actually a very lucky man because if I had to go to Columbus and step in that stadium around all those LUNATICS I would have more than a bum shoulder!YUCK!!
March 23rd, 2018 at 8:43 am
Still would sign Bennie Logan
Potential Rotation
RDE Vinny Curry | Noah Spence | Will Clarke
RDT Gerald McCoy | Mitch Unrein
LDT Bennie Logan | Beau Allen
LDE Jason Pierre-Paul | William Gholston
I can’t think of the last time – we had that kind of talent on our depth chart.
Can U?
March 23rd, 2018 at 8:44 am
Dusthty Rhothdes
LUV Beckwith at ILB – better filler against the run IMO.
March 23rd, 2018 at 8:44 am
According to some Joe, the influx of talent will only expose GMC for the “pathetic, fraud” DT that he is!!! SMH!
How can you not be intrigued by the possibility of a line-up like this?!
Will Gholston?! I have cereal boxes that have more potential for a sack!
March 23rd, 2018 at 8:45 am
I hope you are correct, Joe. You said yesterday he needs a faith-healer. He’s unreliable and at this point he’s more or less an afterthought. If he comes on that’s great but, why would we expect quality starts from a guy who absolutely can’t stay on the field?
March 23rd, 2018 at 8:46 am
Bucsfanman
Lol
March 23rd, 2018 at 8:48 am
Someone get kniced-up or goes down for a couple games.
Gholston can give you some quality reps inside.
March 23rd, 2018 at 8:48 am
*Knicked
March 23rd, 2018 at 8:51 am
LUV- What’s up my man?!
If we get anything from Gholston, it’ll be gravy. I kid but I do hope he can contribute. Maybe the surrounding talent will elevate his game. Right now, I’m unimpressed with his “production”.
You’re right about the depth. It’s light-years better than last year, on paper anyway.
March 23rd, 2018 at 8:58 am
Bucsfanman
I’m good brotha – How about U?
After he signed his contract – I noticed he (along with many others) came into training camp out of shape. Hopefully the shot across the bow (DL turnover), along with coach Buckner & DL new rotation. Will set him back – on the right path.
March 23rd, 2018 at 9:01 am
With all the new additions – Bennie Logan could help take this line to another level.
March 23rd, 2018 at 9:01 am
If I was the gm, then I would see what other de they can trade for. Right now all it takes is one injury to keep that 35 sacks from happening. I would try to get Clowney or maybe Vonn Miller (heard the Broncos are considering moving on). Maybe chris long since the eagle are trying to force a contract restructure. Basically anyone that can produce sacks on a team with cap issues.
After Chubb is gone, most De remaining are projects. Time that Dirk don’t have. I think Jason Litch deserves another contract! Just make the coaching hire a ownership only thing, if it don’t workout.
March 23rd, 2018 at 9:04 am
Bucsfanman
I would not give up on gholston when licht moves cancer93 draft day it will breath new life into all..
I like the moves so far but the cancer93 must be eradicated. One thing for sure is the POS clown has no more excuses nor do you fan boys. Produce or pile on.
March 23rd, 2018 at 9:05 am
Luv
Love the idea of Logan
March 23rd, 2018 at 9:10 am
Bennie Logan (Age:28) LSU
• 2017 KAN Total Tackles: 53 | Tackles for Loss: 9
• 2016 KAN Total Tackles: 24 | Tackles for Loss: 5
• 2015 KAN Total Tackles: 55 | Tackles for Loss: 9
• 2014 KAN Total Tackles: 57 | Tackles for Loss: 8
U would hard-pressed to find that kind of production, from a nose tackle in this league. Just saying
March 23rd, 2018 at 9:12 am
Our ‘new look defensive line’? JPP is listed as a 270 lb DE. Vinny Curry is listed as a 266 lb DE. GMC tops out at around 295-300 lbs. Noah Spence is now listed at 251 lbs. That’s a quick line, but VERY LIGHT (as in 272 lbs average), especially in the middle. Maybe it’s just me, but I have trouble seeing that lineup as causing Brees, Ryan & Cam to panic. Plus it looks like an invitation for teams like the Saints, Eagles or Dallas to run the ball even more (yes, we play all 3 this year). Throw in a DT like Suh or Vea or Payne to collapse the middle & take away the between-the-tackles run options & I’d be fully on-board.
March 23rd, 2018 at 9:13 am
I’m not excited until I see the production of the D-line in actual football games. We canned McDonald and Ayers to bring in Unrein and Curry.
March 23rd, 2018 at 9:14 am
And yes, LUV & TMAX, Bennie Logan would work nicely in there too.
March 23rd, 2018 at 9:14 am
tmaxcon
No doubt brotha – Just hope Licht has lead foot, and keeps it on the pedal.
March 23rd, 2018 at 9:15 am
tmax- I think you’re wrong, but I know not to trade barbs. Adding these pieces, it doesn’t make sense to move him. Provided this line remains relatively healthy, you are correct, there are no more excuses.
The question really is, are you prepared to eat crow if he busts out? Or, if as a result of his play someone on the d-line gets double-digits?
Eating crow is not as bad as it seems tmax! It’s especially delicious when cooked rotisserie style. You know there will be people lined up for days to dish it out if you’re wrong, don’t you?!
March 23rd, 2018 at 9:16 am
Luv
Licht better keep foot to pedal his job depends on it.
March 23rd, 2018 at 9:16 am
Defense Rules
Yes Indeed brotha
That would give us one of the Top-5 rotations in the league.
March 23rd, 2018 at 9:18 am
My bad – he played in Philly from (2014-2016)
March 23rd, 2018 at 9:18 am
Defense- Don’t forget Beau Allen is a solid 315-330 lbs.
March 23rd, 2018 at 9:21 am
Defense rules: that’s exclusively for PASSING downs. For first down you’d have Mitch Unrein and Beau Allen on the field as well, with Vinnie Curry rotating with JPP as well. Much beefier.
March 23rd, 2018 at 9:24 am
Bucsfanman
I’ll eat all the crow you can shovel if they win a playoff game but history proves I have very little to worry about
March 23rd, 2018 at 9:28 am
tmax- I can’t really argue there. However, there will be fervent shoveling if they land in the playoffs!
March 23rd, 2018 at 9:30 am
Joe, what are your thoughts on giving Jacquies Smith one last chance to stay healthy in a season? He is a full season removed from his ACL repair, which may have spooked Licht & Co last season. Jac is the most productive DE for the Bucs since Rice when healthy, .50 Sack to Game ratio. Dude has an incredible motor.
March 23rd, 2018 at 9:41 am
Last year Spense looked like a boy amoung men. If the Bucs keep him at DE he will miss the better part of a 3rd season after he gets hurt again. He is a future probowler for another team at LB.
March 23rd, 2018 at 9:43 am
Let’s not forget Stevie T…..jury is still out on him….331LBS…..a solid “fat boy”
March 23rd, 2018 at 9:44 am
@Mort … “that’s exclusively for PASSING downs.” Strange thing about teams like New Orleans & Philly … they kinda sorta make up their own rules when it comes to what to do when. As in ‘Take what the defense gives you’? I like BOTH of those signings (Allen & Unrein) but as the #3 & #4 DTs. Still want to see a beast as our #2 (very possibly to become the #1 in a year or 2).
March 23rd, 2018 at 9:45 am
Oops, bad move. Just got Tmaxcon all excited with the #2 becoming the Alpha dog.
March 23rd, 2018 at 9:47 am
@Tampabaybucfan … “Let’s not forget Stevie T…..jury is still out on him.” Kinda think he’s already been forgotten. Doesn’t help a 7th Rnd pick’s case when he spends year 1 on IR.
March 23rd, 2018 at 9:49 am
I would still draft Davenport. You can never have enough pass rushers
March 23rd, 2018 at 9:53 am
Based On Snap Count (2017)
RDE Vinny Curry – 578 | Derek Barnett – 424
RDT Fletcher Cox – 608 | Destiny Vaeao – 230 | Elijah Qualls – 103
LDT Tim Jernigan – 492 | Beau Allen – 422
LDE Brandon Graham – 666 | Chris Long – 495
Based On Snap Count(2017)
RDE Vinny Curry – 578 | Noah Spence – 247
RDT Fletcher Cox – 810 | Mitch Unrein – 389
LDT Bennie Logan – 572 | Beau Allen – 422
LDE Jason Pierre-Paul – 1011 | William Gholston – 447
Keys (Keep Guys Fresh):
• Reduce Snap Counts for Gerald McCoy & Jason Pierre-Paul
• Keep Beau Allen in his back-up rotational role.
• Noah Spence must stay healthy – Goal at least 420 snaps this year.
Side-Note: Too many times we expect to much from back-up rotational players. (See:George Johnson) Get the most of guys, by letting them stay in their roles.
March 23rd, 2018 at 9:53 am
The key phrase in this article “If Spence is healthy, he can actually scare quarterbacks.”………If , we haven’t seen him healthy yet, hope he gets there.
March 23rd, 2018 at 9:56 am
Noah Spence is not a starting DE with that shoulder. He’s suited more as a free blitzer as an OLB. Vinny Curry will play DE and Beau Allen/Mitch Unrein/Stevie Tu’ikolovatu will battle it out for starting DT unless Bucs go after more bodies. Spence will get DE snaps but I don’t see him making it through the first half of the season.
There’s enough depth at DT for Vinny Curry to focus on being an edge rusher.
March 23rd, 2018 at 9:59 am
On the Defensive Line; Jason Pierre-Paul, lead the entire league – in snap counts w/1011. That number has to drop significantly for him to stay healthy, and fresh for the duration of the 2018 season.
March 23rd, 2018 at 10:13 am
Based On Snap Count (2017)
RDE Vinny Curry – 578 | Noah Spence – 247 | Will Clarke – 315
RDT Gerald McCoy – 810 | Mitch Unrein – 389
LDT Bennie Logan – 572 | Beau Allen – 422
LDE Jason Pierre-Paul – 1011 | William Gholston – 447
March 23rd, 2018 at 10:15 am
Trade down with Bills to the twelve, pick up a new third and two additional picks.
Take Vita Vea, then take Landry, Davenport, Hubbard Speaks or Okoronkwo. Then it won’t matter if Spence is healthy or not.
March 23rd, 2018 at 10:16 am
@LUVMYBUCS
Unless the Bucs shave some salary off the cap, I don’t see them signing any more free agents.
March 23rd, 2018 at 10:23 am
Fletcher Cox (14 Games) 606 Snaps = 43 Snap per game
Gerald McCoy (15 Games) 810 Snaps = 54 Snap per game
Brandon Graham (15 Games) 666 Total Snaps = 44.4 Snap per game
Jason Pierre-Paul (16 Games) 1011 Total Snaps = 63.19 Snap per game
March 23rd, 2018 at 10:27 am
Bonzai
Off course not.
That’s why a trade, release and possibly a restructure or two must be done.
March 23rd, 2018 at 10:27 am
The way it stands now, a draft of ward, guice/michel/Jones, shaquiem griffen would be pretty nice. Would also love to see us trade down and add picks to address both lines too.
March 23rd, 2018 at 10:31 am
I love the move to get JPP. But I hope we are smart enough to not stop there. We need 2-3 more legit pass rushers. First of all, you can’t expect guys to stay healthy (when does that ever happen, especially for the Bucs. Second, you have to rotate guys in, and none of our backups do anything for me. Long way to go, but we are on the right track.
March 23rd, 2018 at 10:34 am
Trade/Release
• DeSean Jackson | Cap $ Saved: $11,000,000
• J.R. Sweezy | Cap $ Saved: $5,250,000
Total:$16,250,000
Restructure/Extension
• William Gholston | Saved: $4,282,500
• Gerald McCoy | Saved: $8,501,250
Total:$12,783,750
March 23rd, 2018 at 10:35 am
Hawaiian Buc
Amen brotha
March 23rd, 2018 at 10:43 am
Defense rules,
Nice post putting the weights of the d line. I gotta disagree with you that the rotation you included is light.
The problem with your conclusions is that the weights of players can fluctuate greatly because of the scheme and what is the philosophy of the coordinator.
If all schemes were equal then there’s a case for comparison and the results would be, (less than, same, or greater) than the league avg. Bottom line claiming that they’re light is meaningless because of the variability of schemes across the league.
You bring up an interesting point. That is the weight of our de. The fact that DE are getting smaller and lighter isn’t something that has really been accepted by fans and teams as the idea of a 6’2 245-255 de tends to get fans thinking that the player is really a olb not an end. Which is completely wrong of course and backwards. But that’s not stopping d coordinators from looking backward to find a player.
And herein lies the answer to the question of value and Davenport. The idea that He’s a project …is not accurate and it’s damn misleading. But I digress.
Davenport is a top ten-fifteen pick because He’s got a decided advantage over f the other players, including Chubb. Size. That is the best way to understand why the guy is a high day 1 selection.
March 23rd, 2018 at 10:44 am
In 2015, lovie’s last year the bucs had 38 sacks. They also gave up 70% completion which led the sheep to say we need better pass rushers. I wish we would learn that its not all about sacks but consistent pressure. The super bowl champs this year had the same total of 38 sacks. The difference is they also had consistent pressure to disrupt the qb. I would take 28 sacks if we constantly disrupted the qb.
March 23rd, 2018 at 10:53 am
Curry isn’t a 2 tech
March 23rd, 2018 at 11:07 am
@Duke … “I gotta disagree with you that the rotation you included is light.” I’m sure that many see it differently than I do Duke, but I tend to think that’s why our DLine got pushed around so badly in the 4th quarters last year. They got worn down by that time, and opponents just picked up the pace. We weren’t pressuring the QBs, nor were we doing a good job of stopping the run. Not concerned about the DEs outside, just saying that our DLine needs to be configured to bring more pressure up the middle AND to simultaneously keep runs between the tackles to low gains. That’s also a primary reason that I’d prefer to see Beckwith in the middle (Kwon gets blocked out far too often IMO).
March 23rd, 2018 at 11:16 am
Defense Rules
Exactly!! That’s why if a team like the 49er’s, Colts, Raiders or the Bengals wanna trade premium pick for the kid – IMO make the move.
March 23rd, 2018 at 11:31 am
What happened to the big Samoan from USC that we drafted last year? Cant even remember his name?
March 23rd, 2018 at 11:37 am
The defense is already upgraded except for another CB but that can be easily fixed by moving Tandy to CB and drafting a later round Strong Side Safety. Now we have to finish upgrading the Offense. Most important now is a starting LG and a top RB. Sweezy will not be good enough as a starter and we should cut him and use his cap space for another Free Agent. It would be nice to get either the top RB or top G at 7 but if either is not there trade down and get Penny and Utah’s Big G. In the fourth round get Miami’s DE who is good size with nice length and similar speed to Chubb and just needs training from Buckner on more techniques to help him get to the QB.
March 23rd, 2018 at 12:03 pm
Have Gholston practice three technique so he can fill in for McCoy if he goes down and he can cover either end to stop a running team if needed, but the starting lineup should be Piere Paul LDE McCoy 3 Tech DT Ureign DT and Vinny at RDE. Your second string would be Miami LDE Gholston 3 Tech DT Stevie T DT and Noah Spence RDE, with Adams free to play the Swiss Knife Sub when needed especially to stop the run and our other DE to replace Noah if he goes down. With just a fourth round pick for Miami’s DT our DL is set!
March 23rd, 2018 at 12:06 pm
tandy to CB hilarious he can’t even play safety worth a crap and he is going to be the savior at CB… Can you say DRUG TEST needed
March 23rd, 2018 at 12:10 pm
@Joe
Actually don’t even know if he’s had the surgery yet, but if he has, have you heard anything from Licht or Koetter on Noah’s recovery??? I know Licht said a couple weeks ago that Sweezy is still injured. Think Noah could be so good at the pass rush so I really want to keep up with his injury status. If you could get info on his recovery through out the offseason that’d be great. Thanks.
March 23rd, 2018 at 12:16 pm
Spence had surgery last year…from all indications it was successful but time will truly tell as he wont face contact on that shoulder for a while…
As far as sax total..I think we
Shouls try to double our output at forty four…why not??
March 23rd, 2018 at 1:10 pm
Tandy to cornerback???LMAO😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 that’s an award winning comment!ding ding ding ding come get your prize!😂😂😂😂
March 23rd, 2018 at 5:30 pm
If he could, he’d be here. Would have preferred to keep Clinton McDonald over bringing back Jaq Smith.
March 23rd, 2018 at 8:28 pm
Defense rules,
I see where you’re going now, and I don’t disagree with your thought process. Honestly, my point was that you didn’t have a benchmark for comparison.
So there’s nothing to measure between two sides.
The Bucs aren’t lite for the scheme. After reading your expanded edition, I understand you have a different scheme in mind and our current roster is light for the change.
Now I will point out that injuries effected the ability to rotate guys in and out.
The problem was that guys had to stay out on the field because there was no one to spell them.
Your absolutely right about the lighter faster players getting tired and losing their one on one’s. If the team wasn’t so injured at the positions across the line, would that have prevented fatigue and maintained performance? It doesn’t matter. Because that is the past and it won’t change.
So moving forward ….you’d like big heavy man beasts in the interior. What was your idea what to do at de. Contain, pressure or sweep. Not only now but say next draft to fill in the spots. I have to think that it’s getting easier to find d tackles that are huge and eat space than it is to find d ends that can hold the point of attack.