Kirwan: Suh Not The Answer
March 21st, 2018
Pass, says former NFL suit.
What manbeast defensive tackle Ndamukong Suh did — or more importantly didn’t do — in Miami should be a cautionary tale for the Bucs.
That was basically what former Jets pro personnel director Pat Kirwan said yesterday on his fantastic radio show, “Movin’ the Chains,” heard exclusively on SiriusXM NFL Radio.
An irate Dolphins fan called in and was outraged the Dolphins let Suh go. Kirwan didn’t buy what the fan was selling. Kirwan then suggested there isn’t a defensive tackle alive that can single-handedly turn around a franchise.
“He can’t deliver a championship,” Kirwan said of Suh.
While Kirwan may be right, we shall see. Apparently Suh’s visit to Los Angeles has been longer than expected (Suh’s next carnival stop is with Chucky). And if defensive wizard Wade Phillips thinks he can find a way to use both Aaron Donald and Suh, well, it has Joe’s attention.
While Suh may not deliver a Super Bowl to Los Angeles by himself, he did play in a playoff game in Miami. Right about now, Bucs fans would throw a parade for the guy if he did that here.
Remember, the Bucs currently hold the longest playoff drought in the NFC. And the team that used to hold that honor — the Rams — is trying to add a Pro Bowl defensive tackle to play alongside another Pro Bowl defensive tackle with less cap space than the Bucs have.
March 21st, 2018 at 12:12 am
Well Donald and Suh are made for each other. They go hand and hand. Now with that being said Suh is the anti GMC. It won’t work
March 21st, 2018 at 12:13 am
Suh will find a team, he may have to take a whole, whole lot less money.
March 21st, 2018 at 12:14 am
And plus. Suh has mega ego that wouldn’t allow him in the shadow of GMC. He was picked before him.
March 21st, 2018 at 12:41 am
Yet McCoy is the better player lol
And can stay on a roster
March 21st, 2018 at 1:05 am
Miami was stupid to sign Suh to that contract in the 1st place. Thought so at the time and now they release him and take a HUUUGE dead cap hit. SMH.
March 21st, 2018 at 1:33 am
They’d never bring in that big of a name DT with GMC still here. Just not how this organization rolls.
Suh’s level of play has dEfinitely declined, so he should be affordable to many teams. I still wouldn’t mind us taking a look, but he’s a selfish POS so we’d need strong leaders to keep him in check.
Not sure who that really is on this team right now.
March 21st, 2018 at 1:44 am
Bottom line is the Bucs will not be relevant until the light in the loafers and 🌈 and unicorns light in the loafers I don’t want to play with anyone who is actually good because it will show what a fraud and a wussy I am is gone. GMC is the incurable cancer that single handedly has destroyed this defense.
March 21st, 2018 at 1:47 am
Enough said concerning Suh.
Moving on…… 😉
____________
Go Bucs!!!
March 21st, 2018 at 3:24 am
Suh wasn’t the answer for Detroit. He wasn’t the answer for Miami. And he wouldn’t be the answer for us. Despite what folks may say about him though, he is the original Ironman DT IMO … 8 years, only missed 2 games (GMC has missed 19 games in those same 8 years). Very consistent tackler in the DLine center but not a game-changer (sound familiar?). Suh had 10 sacks his rookie season, but has only averaged 6 sacks/year since. Total of 4 FF in 8 years (pretty low).
And yes, GMC has roughly the same stats over the same 8-year career (despite missed an average of 2 games/season more). But Kirwan’s bottom-line looks to be right-on: Suh couldn’t deliver a championship on either team he’s been on. T-E-A-M-S win championships, and neither Detroit nor Miami were well-balanced teams (neither are we). DTs are just 1 cog in the wheel, no matter how good they may be individually. Without a strong surrounding cast, they can’t take over a game.
March 21st, 2018 at 3:46 am
It really makes no difference what anyone thinks since the Bucs aren’t signing him since they just signed three 3rd tier defensive lineman and we all know that’s better than one top tier player. Sure Suh and McCoy together would wreak havoc on offensive lines, but Suh isn’t a nice guy and the team is first and foremost concerned with “culture” in the locker room. All loser teams know that you have to change the “culture” before you can win – that and all the other cliches like we need a team with “heart” and we need players that give “110%”… Because we all know what wins football games are cliches and a solid run-stopping defensive line rotation!
March 21st, 2018 at 3:50 am
Defense – LeeRoy wasn’t the answer here in Tampa, he didn’t win a SB so why is he in the HOF, why does he have a steakhouse, why does he have an expressway! If you don’t win the SB by yourself you can’t call yourself a good player.
Dilfer <- Marino
Flacco <- Dan Fouts
Torrey Smith <- Cris Carter
Booger <- John Randle
March 21st, 2018 at 4:15 am
Stop kidding yourselves. Suh is better than McCoy and would help this team tremendously. Mike Smith should be able to make it work if they pick Suh up on a one year deal. Smith had the same type of defensive tackles when he was def coordinator in Jacksonville with Marcus Stroud and John Henderson. Both were 1st round picks, big, strong, fast defensive linemen. They were interchangeable and terrorized q.b.’s. So don’t say it wouldn’t work. Screw McCoy’s ego. If McCoy really wanted to win he would be begging the Bucs to sign Suh. And that would really free up our DEs because so much attention would be on the 2 beasts in the middle. Picking up Suh would only make us better because the competition level would rise and Suh brings attitude, something McCoy lacks.
March 21st, 2018 at 4:39 am
^^^^ Solid point on Stroud and Henderson playing together.
March 21st, 2018 at 5:53 am
Suh has anchored two franchises’ defenses and taken them to the playoffs. Yes please!
March 21st, 2018 at 7:17 am
Cmon Bucs fans the best defensive players are the meanest…we may need some aggression in our locker room with these soft practices I hear about..sign suh and with the size up front we can take over he division..no one man can do it but suh with gmc=high sack, consistent pressure, boost to the c- secondary
March 21st, 2018 at 7:22 am
Please sign Suh!!!!!!!!!! We need help!!! GMC needs help!!!!
March 21st, 2018 at 7:30 am
But, but, but Suh is sooo mean!!!
There’s a reason 2 teams have ditched this guy. If he was the player we all THINK he is, why would Detroit AND Miami let him go?
Buyer beware.
March 21st, 2018 at 7:45 am
The people calling for him are the same that wanted Haynesworth. A big name they wanted drafted, wanted when he was first available and did not get him. Then got him and what? There is a reason GM’s are not backing up a Brinks truck for this guy.
March 21st, 2018 at 7:52 am
suh would change team demeanor in heartbeat…one or two crazy hits and players would be like “hot-dam did you see what our guy just did – he stomped ’em”…it took team players 16 weeks to man up to chris baker in the locker room…suh woulda mushed his head into the tree on hbo and that would have been it!!!
March 21st, 2018 at 7:54 am
if necessary, get suh…and get rid of mccoy…i kid you not…
i want both, but if that isn’t happening, trade mccoy and grab suh
March 21st, 2018 at 7:55 am
Damn it Glazers! Sign Suh to a 1yr deal rich with incentives. Let us see coach Buck work with 2 of the best dlinemen in the game. Could you imagine…along with the other signings we would rival any dline rotation
Sucks to dream big sometimes though. It’ll never happen
#TRENCHWARFARE
March 21st, 2018 at 8:04 am
Buc4life Says:
March 21st, 2018 at 4:15 am
Stop kidding yourselves. Suh is better than McCoy
Easy , Friend. I know the coffee hasnt kicked in yet, but no one in the NFL shares that opinion.
The team that drafted him suspended him, and traded him.
The team that traded for him- cut him
CUT HIM.
Great players dont get cut.
Suh has cost his teams more games, than hes won them. Hes hated by his teammates.
McCoy is the only Defender we have, that other teams have to scheme for.
Not David, Alexander, or Grimes.
The only reason reason anyone here doesnt think McCoy is a future Hall of Famer- is because of a couple dumbass posters here.
Who are furious that McCoy either
A) sodomized them
B) refuses to Sodomize them.
Thats why the Coaches/players kerp voting McCoy to the Probowl, and top 50.
If you arent gonna like our only good players- why watch the team?
You wouldnt watch a movie- if you hated all the actors
March 21st, 2018 at 8:12 am
I wouldnt be opposed to signing Suh. But you have to handle him right
Sign him on the lowend. Doubt he gets paid much
Lots of behavior penalty clauses-
If he does something stupid( which he always does) fine the crap out of him.
Guess its the “ stupid” rules.
Koetter said the team last year was “dumb and sluggish”.
They seem to be trying to get smarter players.
Dont think the NFL’s poster child for dumb would fit the coaches new player profile.
Buuut, ya never know
March 21st, 2018 at 8:29 am
Capt. Tim- Agreed. If Suh>GMC, then why did the Lions get rid of him and Miami cut him?
People get enamored with names and don’t bother to question things. Not to mention that Since 2012 when GMC was actually “healthy” GMC has 7 more sacks than the big meanie. That’s right, FACT, GMC outproduces Suh!
Career numbers (GMC injured 2 seasons):
Suh 126 games/ 51.5 sacks/ 289 tackles/ 4 FF
GMC 109 games/ 48.5 sacks/ 201 tackles/ 6 FF
If you want to add him, OK, but don’t fake the funk thinking this guy is better than what we have because he’s meaner.
But hey, WTFDIK!
March 21st, 2018 at 8:40 am
Ain’t that the truth!
Great points by Capt. Tim as usual. With Suh it’s buyer beware.
March 21st, 2018 at 8:41 am
He can’t deliver a championship? He sure wouldn’t hurt. What kind of reasoning is that? That is not a thoughtful reason at all.
If you are in a win-now mode, why not bring him in? Heavy rotation would improve he and McCoys’ effectiveness and careers, not to mention the DE’s.
If you want to prepare for the future and develop younger talent then, trade McCoy now while his value is the highest, especially if someone wants to give up a second round + pick(s).
Or is McCoy and Sue’s value commensurate and Sue is finding out that he can’t get what he wants and by extension neither would McCoy if he left? Has McCoys contract made him untradable ?
March 21st, 2018 at 8:45 am
BringBucsBack
His soft play, lack of production when it matters and his clown antics have made him untradable not his contract…
March 21st, 2018 at 8:47 am
If Sue makes it to Chucky, my prediction is that he signs there and later we find out that Oakland really did offer a second for Gerald and Gerald declines.
Buc Life?
March 21st, 2018 at 8:51 am
If the team let’s mccoy dictate trades they are bigger pansy arse losers than originally thought… worrying about BS players feelings versus results is exactly why this team is a total laughing stock and owner of the worst record in nfl history
March 21st, 2018 at 8:53 am
Capt. Tim and Bucsfanmann, as Raheem said stats are for looses. I’ve been a Bucs fan from the beginning and season ticket holder since 1999. First, Detroit did not get rid of Suh, he didn’t resign. Then Miami signed him to that dumb high contract. As for teammates not liking Suh, well many of our teammates hated Sapp. It’s all about making the offense afraid and pay attention to you. Suh would bring that and not disappear like McCoy. He also don’t get pushed around like McCoy. It’s not that I hate McCoy but every week I’m sitting at the 50 yard line watching him being pushed around by 1 or sometimes 2 blockers. If Suh was next to McCoy who could the offense double team and think of the positive effects that would have on our defensive ends and defensive backs???
March 21st, 2018 at 8:56 am
Tmax, I have to agree with you there but, that must apply to J-miss too when he lobbies hard for an average player from FSU just because….
March 21st, 2018 at 9:16 am
Buc4life- There’s no question that he would make this line better, instantly. Stats may be for losers, however, why would the Lions let him hit free agency if he was THAT good. Good d-linemen don’t just hit the streets for no good reason.
And, why is it when people produce actual hard statistics the detractors always use the same argument?! Show me how Suh is so much better than GMC and not “stats are for losers” or that “he’s soft”.
I just think the “legend” of Suh is greater than his actual production. And, again, I would love to see him and GMC on that line. I just don’t think that it’s going to become a reality.
March 21st, 2018 at 9:30 am
I know that it’s not going to happen, but it would have been nice to bring in Richardson, Wilkerson or Sue to help McCoy out.
March 21st, 2018 at 10:22 am
Detroit let suh go because they had salary cap issues and they could not meet the salary demands of suh. Its really simple. All these buc fans trying to advocate for not signing suh with alternative facts are hillarious. If he was such a cancer, he wouldnt be taking all these visits. Fifth team and counting
March 21st, 2018 at 10:49 am
Webster-
Soooo,
Miami didnt just cut Suh
No one would trade for him?
Funny how you kinda skipped over that part
The Bit*h is on the street, because hes an unproductive idiot.
And great players dont make 5 stops. They get signed on the first stop
March 21st, 2018 at 11:00 am
I really didn’t see where anyone was advocating for NOT signing Suh. My argument was that only Buc fans think he’s better than anyone else on the team. If, and I mean if, it’s by the smallest of margins.
This fanbase is so weird. We revile our own players but clamor for another guy, exactly the same elsewhere.
I will never understand “fans” who don’t root for their own players.
March 21st, 2018 at 11:11 am
Miami had 28 mil reasons why they cut him. As in 28 mil cap number. No one is trading for a 28 mil cap hit. And great players who have many options does not take the first offer. They weight their options and do whats best for them. You can stick to your alternative facts though if that helps you sleep at night.
March 21st, 2018 at 11:12 am
Why am i in moderation?
March 21st, 2018 at 11:26 am
webster- You can’t honestly think that the Dolphins unloaded arguably one of the best DTs in the league for cap reasons. Not after trading Ajaye, Jarvis, and letting Pouncey and others walk. It is NOT a cap issue.
Per the Miami Herald:
“And last year the Dolphins were broken as a team. Yes, they were 6-10. Everybody saw that. But within themselves the Dolphins, after a lot of self study and difficult, honest evaluation, have come to the conclusion they were simply not right as a team — as a group.
The chemistry was bad. Toxic even.
And part of that toxicity is being sucked out of the Dolphins locker room this offseason. Now “chemistry” and “team” have become a higher priority than just about everything — including sheer individual talent.”
Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/armando-salguero/article204707034.html#storylink=cpy
But hey, WTFDIK?!
March 21st, 2018 at 11:27 am
Yes, the Dolphins will benefit from the cap space but it is not a reason to let exceptional talent go. Unless….
March 21st, 2018 at 11:44 am
Losing is toxic🤔
March 21st, 2018 at 12:40 pm
@ bucsfan
There is no dlineman any where making 28 mil. There is no defensive player making 28 mil. Those are elite qb figures. Yes, you let go a top d tackle when his cap number reaches 28 mil. It was a stupid contract to begin with. You think the dolphins will come out and say we drew up a stupid contract? No, they will say the atmosphere was toxic. You dont find it interesting that during his 3 years in miami, his cap hit was 6.1 mil in 2015, 12.6 mil in 2016, 19 mil in 2017. If suh was so toxic, why is it just coming out this offseason when his cap hit jumps to 27 mil? This is about money. They have been stringing landry along for two years. He is a three time pro bowler. They dont want to pony up the 80 mil it will cost to keep him. But yea, lets through out the word toxic so our fans wont be too mad at us. You can keep your eyes shut if you want to. Ask miko about the dolphins organization. Suh toxic lol
March 21st, 2018 at 1:29 pm
@wwebster there were plenty of stories coming out from Miami about suh being toxic and not working with the team.
In fact he even came out himself and admitted he wasn’t following game plans or doing what the coaches wanted, but just freelancing on his own instead of playing the scheme. And his production has been steadily declining.
Again, I wouldn’t personally mind seeing him and GMC out there together. But don’t act like he doesn’t bring a ton of baggage and issues along his with his play (which is on the decline).
March 21st, 2018 at 1:34 pm
Hey webster, don’t taze me bro’! Just telling you what’s being said. I still don’t buy that it’s SOLELY a salary issue. I mean, they are in full “fire sale” mode over there. And, you’re saying 28 million. That’s the cap hit, not his salary ($17 mil). According to another Miami paper, the trade for Quinn put his $12 million on the books for 2018. They got rid of Landry $16 mil, Pouncey $10 mil, Julius Thomas $7 mil but couldn’t afford to keep “one of the best DT’s in the game.”? To be a centerpiece with Quinn and Wake? No freakin’ way! There’s much more to this than money. I’m sorry but I disagree.
You cannot simply dismiss that a player of his “caliber” has now been shown the door by 2 teams. Smart franchises find a way to keep elite talent. Prove me wrong.
Frankly, we’re arguing semantics here. My whole point, regardless of salary is that the perception of Suh’s PRODUCTION does not equal actual production. Would he make the Bucs a better defensive team? Absolutely, YES. Is he BETTER than GMC? His statistics say that they are even.
I would LOVE to see him in pewter BUT, you and I and every other poster here knows good and well that is a pipe dream.
March 21st, 2018 at 3:58 pm
Rod, great point on “culture.” This cliche has developed a life if its own (much like the “stats are for losers” line). They sound catchy and smart but don’t mean diddly (carry a big stick, anyone?). Get better players who can block, tackle, throw and catch better than the other team, practice well, coach in practice and make effective adjustments in the game, get lucky with injuries and such (weather, refs, etc)…these things win games consistently. Then you have a winning culture…when you do the things it takes to win. Sounds simple but there is so much noise people tend to forget. We CAN win consistently this year. We’re only on step one (better players). Go Bucs!
March 21st, 2018 at 4:08 pm
@ unbelievable
As i said, teams are lining up to sign said toxic player. Toxic players do not have multiple options. How many options did incognito have before buffalo signed him? Ray rice? Greg hardy? 2 teams the bucs and cowboys and he just used the bucs to up his pay. Colin kap? Eric reid right now is getting the “toxic” treatment. Troy polamalou “freelanced” all the time so theres that. Oh and please provide the link of suh “admitting” to freelancing. I know the media said it, but i dont remember suh saying it. I dont do alternative facts around here. Again, give me a player as toxic as suh all day.
March 21st, 2018 at 4:15 pm
@ bucsfan
Cap hit is the important number. 28 mil on the cap is being tied up in a player that is not an elite qb. Thats a problem. Money is the reason. I can guarantee if his cap hit was 12 mil like gmc is for next year, suh would still be a dolphin. Unfortunately, they do not structure contracts like the bucs and when that 28 mil cap hit kicked in, they kicked him out.
March 21st, 2018 at 4:46 pm
Eric reid and draft a cb first pick #bucnation
March 21st, 2018 at 4:54 pm
The dude is not going to be a Buccaneer!
March 25th, 2018 at 11:48 pm
Look at sapp he had a horrible personality and he’s in the HOF and has a RING